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Author Topic: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.  (Read 6421 times)

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Jack Burton

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Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« on: July 28, 2009, 01:22:09 pm »
After years of searching last week I was fortunate enough to purchase a Mitsubishi AM-3501R presentation monitor from my local university auction here in Lexington.  

Only pic I could find:


For those who are new to these types of monitors they are really really big CRT PC monitors.  They usually have RGB or VGA connections on the back along with myriad of other inputs.  Many of them can sync to 15khz, and that makes them useful for gaming applications.  

Basically they are huge arcade monitors that come in a case with all the adjustments conveniently placed on the front and they are digital multisync.

Here are the specs on my particular model:

Model:           AM-3501R
Max Resolution:   Officially 640 x 480, will sync to 800x600 but I wouldn't recommend it
Sync Type:   Separate, Composite, Sync on Green all supported
H Freq/ V Freq:          15-35 Khz / 40-75 Hz
Tube Manufacturer:          Mitsubishi
Monitor Type:          Multisync/Multiscan
Tube Model:         Unknown (round tube)
Tube Size:          35 (33.5 viewable)
Connector:         CMPTR, S-video, VTR, BNC composite, 25 pin D-sub, 9 pin TTL,  BNC RGBHV, Phono (RCA) audio on all inputs

Weight: 385 lbs! :dizzy:  It took 4 men to move it from the University surplus.  There are no handles, but the whole monitor is just one big rectangular cube so it's pretty easy to move around.

When I got home I connected several systems and a PC and the image was very very good but a too dark for my tastes.  Very very carefully I took off the back of the monitor, discovering in the process there are about six cooling fans mounted in the back, and began to try to recalibrate it.

There were 3 controls.  2 focus controls and one screen control.  I tinkered a bit with the screen control and saw that I could increase the brightness of the screen considerably.  I got out a copy of the T2 DVD which has a THX testing program included and used the contrast, brightness, and color tests til I felt it was adjusted perfectly.  In the end I only had to turn the screen control about 3mm but it made a world of difference.

The focus was already really good, but I figured as long as I had the monitor out I might try to make it a little better.  I only adjusted the top control but I felt it also made a small improvement.  Total time for this "repair" job was about 1 hour.  But it completely restored the image quality.

Now, on to performance.  Put simply it's the the best arcade monitor I've ever seen.  Easily as good as anything I've  seen from Betson, Wels Gardner, or Sanwa.  Color and contrast can fill the entire set of contrast bars on test patterns I've used.  The only flaw I've detected is a darkening of the blue color at the very dark levels.  I have never noticed this in game though.  

The dot pitch of this monitor is something like .7mm to .8mm.  I haven't been able to find detailed information or a manual so I'm not really sure.  I know the XC series of monitors from Mitsubishi all have .7mm dot pitches and this one is very similar.  Dot pitch is important when it comes to arcade monitors because it determines how sharply detailed the individual pixels of a games artwork will be.  Even if a monitor can display a game in it's native resolution if the dot pitch is too high then the scanlines will be very thick and the game will look very blocky.  A dot pitch of .7mm is pretty much identical to an old arcade monitor.  
  
All the controls for H-size, V-size, H-pos, V-pos, contrast, and brightness are right on the front of the monitor.  Additionally it remembers these settings between resolutions.  I think it can store 5 resolutions.  

Setting up MAME was very easy.  I used an Nvidia Geforce FX 5200 in my pc and Soft 15khz.  This monitor has RGBHV connectors in the back so I just used a VGA to RGBHV cable and it worked first try.  
I connected two arcade sticks to my computer via USB and I sit about 3 or 4 feet in front of the monitor on the floor and play.  This approximates to playing on a showcase cabinet.  Kind of hurts your back after a little while though.  I was worried when I bought the monitor that sitting that close the image would not be good and the scanlines would be too noticeable.  This has not been my experience.  I think the monitor is just barely small enough to get away with this at 33.5 viewable inches.  On vertical games this works out to about 24" of viewable space which is very nice.

Consoles also look very good.  I play my PS3 on it via the AV/Multi-out setting in 480p.  This required an adapter from Ultimarc though.   I was very surprised to learn that all PS2 and PS1 games can be played in progressive scan via this method.  

I highly recommend these monitors to any MAME enthusiast who is looking for a big screen to play on.  They take up about as much floor space as a cab, but they are flat on top so you get some back.  I have a set of pc speakers and a ps3 on top of mine.  This monitor could easily serve as game room tv, multimedia monitor, and MAME set-up at the same time.  Movies and anime looked very good at 640x480.

More pics upcoming.  My digital camera is broken right now but I plan to update with pictures of color bars and games running.  

A couple issues remain I would like to get sorted out.  

#1 There are controls on the front of the panel that say "Purity Level"  with a setting of 1 or 2.  It was set to 2 when I got it.  There appears to be very little difference between the two settings.  2 may be slightly brighter.  What does this control do?  

#2 If I were to connect an actual arcade PCB to this monitor would I need a video amp?

#3 Advancemame works well on this monitor, but I can never get the image centered properly.  It is always to far off to the right.  I am using the exact settings for the monitor in the custom PC settings of advcfg, but it still doesn't seem to work right.  What kind of things should I try?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 04:34:29 pm by Jack Burton »

solid12345

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 11:52:20 pm »
Would love to see some photos, I just recently got ahold of a 20 inch Sony PVM so i'm all about the presentation monitors now. It is amazing how you can buy what was once 2-3 thousand dollar equipment for as little as 50-100 bucks nowadays.

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2009, 10:26:23 pm »
Would love to see some photos, I just recently got ahold of a 20 inch Sony PVM so i'm all about the presentation monitors now. It is amazing how you can buy what was once 2-3 thousand dollar equipment for as little as 50-100 bucks nowadays.

Or less. And, outside of the hobby, no one will buy one from you if you decide to sell. Hard to even give these away at times.

Jack: I woulda thought the 'AM' meant analog monitor, but I guess not. Anyways, post the contents of your rc file.
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People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

Jack Burton

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 08:30:21 pm »
Pictures still upcoming, but here are the contents of my .rc file.

dir_rom D:\roms
debug_crash no
debug_rawsound no
debug_speedmark no
device_color_bgr15 no
device_color_bgr16 no
device_color_bgr24 no
device_color_bgr32 yes
device_color_bgr8 no
device_color_palette8 yes
device_color_yuy2 no
device_joystick auto
device_keyboard auto
device_lgrawinput_calibration auto
device_mouse auto
device_sdl_samples 2048
device_sound auto
device_svgawin_divideclock no
device_svgawin_skipboard 0
device_svgawin_stub fullscreen
device_video auto
device_video_cursor auto
device_video_doublescan no
device_video_fastchange no
device_video_interlace no
device_video_output fullscreen
device_video_overlaysize 1024
device_video_singlescan yes
dir_artwork artwork
dir_diff diff
dir_hi hi
dir_image image
dir_inp inp
dir_memcard memcard
dir_nvram nvram
dir_sample sample
dir_snap snap
dir_sta sta
display_adjust generate_yclock
display_antialias no
display_artwork_backdrop yes
display_artwork_bezel no
display_artwork_crop yes
display_artwork_overlay yes
display_aspectx 4
display_aspecty 3
display_beam 1
display_brightness 1
display_buffer no
display_color auto
display_expand 1
display_flicker 0
display_flipx no
display_flipy no
display_frameskip auto
display_gamma 1
display_intensity 1.5
display_interlaceeffect none
display_magnify 1
display_mode auto
display_pausebrightness 1
display_resize none
display_resizeeffect none
display_restore yes
display_rgbeffect none
display_rol no
display_ror no
display_scanlines no
display_skipcolumns auto
display_skiplines auto
display_translucency yes
display_vsync yes
include
input_hotkey yes
input_idleexit 0
input_map[coin5] auto
input_map[coin6] auto
input_map[coin7] auto
input_map[coin8] auto
input_map[event10] auto
input_map[event11] auto
input_map[event12] auto
input_map[event13] auto
input_map[event14] auto
input_map[event1] auto
input_map[event2] auto
input_map[event3] auto
input_map[event4] auto
input_map[event5] auto
input_map[event6] auto
input_map[event7] auto
input_map[event8] auto
input_map[event9] auto
input_map[p1_dialx] auto
input_map[p1_dialy] auto
input_map[p1_lightgunx] auto
input_map[p1_lightguny] auto
input_map[p1_mousex] auto
input_map[p1_mousey] auto
input_map[p1_paddlex] auto
input_map[p1_paddley] auto
input_map[p1_pedalbrake] auto
input_map[p1_pedalgas] auto
input_map[p1_pedalother] auto
input_map[p1_stickx] auto
input_map[p1_sticky] auto
input_map[p1_stickz] auto
input_map[p1_trackballx] auto
input_map[p1_trackbally] auto
input_map[p2_dialx] auto
input_map[p2_dialy] auto
input_map[p2_lightgunx] auto
input_map[p2_lightguny] auto
input_map[p2_mousex] auto
input_map[p2_mousey] auto
input_map[p2_paddlex] auto
input_map[p2_paddley] auto
input_map[p2_pedalbrake] auto
input_map[p2_pedalgas] auto
input_map[p2_pedalother] auto
input_map[p2_stickx] auto
input_map[p2_sticky] auto
input_map[p2_stickz] auto
input_map[p2_trackballx] auto
input_map[p2_trackbally] auto
input_map[p3_dialx] auto
input_map[p3_dialy] auto
input_map[p3_lightgunx] auto
input_map[p3_lightguny] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_a] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_b] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_bet] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_c] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_chance] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_chi] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_d] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_double_up] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_e] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_f] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_flip_flop] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_g] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_h] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_i] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_j] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_k] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_kan] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_l] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_m] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_n] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_pon] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_reach] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_ron] auto
input_map[p3_mahjong_score] auto
input_map[p3_mousex] auto
input_map[p3_mousey] auto
input_map[p3_paddlex] auto
input_map[p3_paddley] auto
input_map[p3_pedalbrake] auto
input_map[p3_pedalgas] auto
input_map[p3_pedalother] auto
input_map[p3_stickx] auto
input_map[p3_sticky] auto
input_map[p3_stickz] auto
input_map[p3_trackballx] auto
input_map[p3_trackbally] auto
input_map[p4_dialx] auto
input_map[p4_dialy] auto
input_map[p4_lightgunx] auto
input_map[p4_lightguny] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_a] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_b] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_bet] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_c] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_chance] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_chi] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_d] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_double_up] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_e] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_f] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_flip_flop] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_g] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_h] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_i] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_j] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_k] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_kan] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_l] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_m] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_n] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_pon] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_reach] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_ron] auto
input_map[p4_mahjong_score] auto
input_map[p4_mousex] auto
input_map[p4_mousey] auto
input_map[p4_paddlex] auto
input_map[p4_paddley] auto
input_map[p4_pedalbrake] auto
input_map[p4_pedalgas] auto
input_map[p4_pedalother] auto
input_map[p4_stickx] auto
input_map[p4_sticky] auto
input_map[p4_stickz] auto
input_map[p4_trackballx] auto
input_map[p4_trackbally] auto
input_map[safequit] auto
input_map[service_coin5] auto
input_map[service_coin6] auto
input_map[service_coin7] auto
input_map[service_coin8] auto
input_map[ui_toggle_ui] auto
input_steadykey no
misc_bios default
misc_cheat no
misc_cheatfile cheat.dat
misc_difficulty none
misc_eventdebug no
misc_eventfile event.dat
misc_freeplay no
misc_hiscorefile hiscore.dat
misc_lang none
misc_languagefile english.lng
misc_mutedemo no
misc_quiet no
misc_safequit yes
misc_timetorun 0
record_sound yes
record_sound_time 15
record_video yes
record_video_interleave 2
record_video_time 15
script_coin1
script_coin2
script_coin3
script_coin4
script_emulation
script_event1
script_event10
script_event11
script_event12
script_event13
script_event14
script_event2
script_event3
script_event4
script_event5
script_event6
script_event7
script_event8
script_event9
script_led1 on(kdb, 0b1); wait(!event()); off(kdb, 0b1);
script_led2 on(kdb, 0b10); wait(!event()); off(kdb, 0b10);
script_led3
script_play
script_safequit
script_start1
script_start2
script_start3
script_start4
script_turbo while (event()) { toggle(kdb, 0b100); delay(100); } off(kdb, 0b100);
script_video wait(!event()); set(kdb, 0);
sound_adjust auto
sound_equalizer_highvolume 0
sound_equalizer_lowvolume 0
sound_equalizer_midvolume 0
sound_latency 0.05
sound_mode auto
sound_normalize yes
sound_samplerate 44100
sound_samples yes
sound_volume -3
sync_fps auto
sync_resample auto
sync_speed 1
sync_startuptime auto
sync_turbospeed 3
ui_color[help_other] 000000 808080
ui_color[help_p1] 000000 ffff00
ui_color[help_p2] 000000 00ff00
ui_color[help_p3] 000000 ff0000
ui_color[help_p4] 000000 00ffff
ui_color[interface] 000000 ffffff
ui_color[select] 000000 afffff
ui_color[tag] 247ef0 ffffff
ui_font auto
ui_fontsize auto
ui_helpimage auto
ui_translucency 0.8
device_video_format 15750 0.8 0.05 0.15 0 0.916031 0.019084 0.00381679 0.0610687
device_video_clock 5-150 / 15.75 / 50-75

Ummon

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 05:45:03 pm »
Okay, try these:

- set all the bgr parametres to 'yes'. I find often that advmame will use bgr16.

- set display_resize to 'fractional' . Might not make any difference, but I have it set to that, and advmame picks that every time instead of 'none'.

- copy your clock and format to another text file. Go back in advcfg: limit pixel clock to 50; set scan range to actual monitor capacity, but of course still use 'low' adjustment parametre; set refresh range to 50-90. Of course, you can try all these in tandem, separately and together. You can also try removing your format line, and just having advmame use your clock values.

- if you're using 106.1 or that version that tikbalang posted, you may want to turn vsync off. I know, weird, but it seems to cause stuttering and tearing.
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

Jack Burton

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 06:13:03 pm »
I've tried all the different color formats and they don't seem to make any difference to the screen position.  I've also tried fractional and the other resizing formats.  I don't like these anyway cause they change the image.  I always run with display resize set to none cause I only want native resolutions.

I will try using 15-38 khz as the scan range.  It seems that when I do this though the games default to running in 31khz.  How do I set it up to handle both modes? 

This monitor can only handle 50-75 hz.  Will setting 50-90 make a difference somewhere?

That thing about v-sync is weird.  To be honest I can't tell a difference with it on or off most of the time in advancemame.  I think at native resolutions v-sync is not very useful.  I am using advancemame+ 106.0

Ummon

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 08:06:54 pm »
Mmm, I was confusing this one with the AM-3151A. My file says the refresh range is actually 40-70, and the scan range is 15-35.5 . However, try this:

55-65hz

15-35.5  ; you could also try 15.75-35

and set the clock range to 0-50


.....wait, wait, wait. Go into advcfg and redo your clock data, using the above. When you get to the 'low' test screen or whatever, use the keyboard keys to size and center the image. This should now be your reference mode.

Using a 256x240 game, see how that works. If it's still off-center, use the monitor geometry controls to center it. If all other games are centered, you're good. If they're not, turn your monitor controls randomly; go back into advcfg and at the 'low' screen use your MONITOR controls to size and center the image. Now run a 240 game. Run some others.

If these fail, PM me with your number, day, and time and I can run over it with you.
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

Jack Burton

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2010, 05:59:48 pm »
So, nearly a year later and I've finally found some decent pics of this monitor online.  I have also learned a bit more about these kinds of monitors, and thought I would share my views.

Not my own pics, but ones just like mine





For a time I was confused about the image on this monitor compared to my others, and to my TV.  It seemed darker, and duller. 

What was wrong was me.  I simply didn't know how to properly calibrate brightness and contrast on a monitor.  On this one it makes a lot more difference than with a standard TV.  I was always setting them too high, and when you do that you get a washed out dull image.  With proper settings the colors look much more natural and vivid. 

I had tinkered with the screen control a few times, but I was never letting it warm up properly.  To get the best image quality this monitor needs to be on for at least a couple of hours, probably closer to three.  Then I had to reset all the screen settings to the default, and THEN used a professional video calibration software to set my SCREEN setting on the inside of the monitor.  Since then it has looked fantastic. 

One thing that's different about this monitor and others I've seen is that it has a very low color temperature.  It's probably 5000k.  I've been using 6500k for a while now and I vastly prefer it to 9600k.  This monitor might have control somewhere on the inside to adjust this, but I haven't found it.  I can live with it.  I does feel very "arcadey" and make me feel all warm inside :P

I was also getting a dark image on this monitor due to the way I was connecting my consoles to it.  I was using the psx>vga adapter from Ultimarc to connect my PS3 to the monitor.  For some reason this adapter darkens the image when you do that. 

So instead of the adapter I bought some phono>BNC adapters like these in the photo:



But I put them on the RGB connectors instead, and connected my ps3 directly to the monitor with no adapter, and set it my PS3 to SCART mode in 480p.  This is sync on green, and compatible with the monitor.  The result was a much brighter and colorful image.  The only downside to this is that for some reason SCART images are off-center and very wide, and even using the H-size control I can't get every bit of the screen to fit.  I can almost get it, probably 90% of the screen or so.  But, I can live with it.  I've tried going back and playing games in interlaced modes on my regular tv and I can't believe how I never noticed the interlacing artifacts as much before. 

The geometry and convergence on this tv are excellent for what it is, and better than most arcade monitors I've come across.  However, they are not perfect.  In a focus test the text does become blurry a bit in the corners, but is still readable.  This is completely unnoticable while playing games though.

The blue gun on this monitor is weak, and also accounts for the slightly dim image.  It just can't draw dark blues that well.  This is really only apparent in color tests though. 

All in all I'm extremely happy with this monitor.  It's kind of sad though, because this thing has really taken over as my main gaming display, and the cab is in a state of ruin beside it.  It's just too tempting to play on the big display than to fix up the cab and play on a 19" monitor in it. 

Also as time has passed by I believe I have become a little bored with MAME, and wish to move on to the next generation of arcade games.  That means 3d games from the mid-90's on.  MAME doesn't do those very well, and consoles do.  When I do finish up the restoration of the cab, it's going to be focused on consoles.  Probably with a 25" VGA monitor, or a 32" LCD.  I need something to play SSFIV on!

Thenasty

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    • Thenasty's Arcademania Horizontal/Vertical monitor setup.
Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2010, 10:02:05 pm »
I also got one presentation monitors. When i got, I run MAME with -arcade Monitor and it lloked great.

Like you said, it's heavy as hell.

Anyway, if anyone here in NJ/Bergen/Lodi wants to give me a little for it, LMK.

I believe mine is 21"/25". Been in garage since then. When I did a research on the monitor, it did cost around $2K.
Thenasty's Arcademania Horizontal/Vertical setup.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=26696.0

Free VGA Breakout Cable
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38228.0

Ultimate All in One Coin Mech write up (Make your own)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=19200.0

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2010, 06:42:28 pm »
To get the picture centred, you may need to adjust the 'frontporch' and 'backporch' settings in this line:

device_video_format 15750 0.8 0.05 0.15 0 0.916031 0.019084 0.00381679 0.0610687

Frontporch and backporch refer to offsets (from left or right) for the video mode.

However, I am not an expert on Advancemame so I'll leave it to you to work out what to adjust, because if you don't do it right then it won't work at all.
Check out my completed projects!


Jack Burton

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 08:33:46 pm »
Yup, I actually figured this out on my own.  I just use advcfg and use the keys to adjust the settings a little at a time so I can see the results in real time.

Jack Burton

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Re: Finally! I now own a presentation monitor.
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 02:10:26 pm »
And finally I took a few pictures:

Right click the images and view them by themselves for higher resolution.



















Sorry for the quality, I used my friends cell phone, and I'm not a good digital photographer.  
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 02:12:42 pm by Jack Burton »