i think im gonna try the astro city layout and leave the 4th button on the right as you said. are those sticks you made based from the slagcoin website. or a custom design. i cant decide on the size of my fight stick those yours looks to be a nice size.
First off, sorry for taking so long to reply to this. It's hard to keep up with all the replies here, which is awesome!
Anyhow, since this question is more related to my sticks specifically than the general conversation here, I put the answer in my projects thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118843.0Candy cabs are harder for the novice to build (lots fun curves) and that is why you don't see as many IMHO... oh and have you ever made a full candy out of MDF, sonnofabitch that sucker gets heavy when you start double and triple layering wood for those curved panels.
If I made my own candy cab it would be stained hardwood Astro City, so it would be even heavier, haha. And I agree it would be extremely difficult with the layering, planing, and thick expensive peices of hardwood.
Since my next cabinet is going to use a rotating LCD TV it'll have to be more like a Vewlix. Not sure if you'd consider that a candy cab, I wouldn't I guess.
I plan to do a control panel in the coming month and have been considering a curved layout, but can't quite make up my mind...as much sense as the ergonomic argument seems to make, I'm used to the straight layout and am afraid that a curved layout may seem weird, especially for games that use 1 to 4 buttons - ie. most non-fighting games.
I am interested in seeing people debate the merits of each style.
The advantage of the square layout is authenticity to American-style cabinets, visual aesthetics, and recognizability and nostalgia for those who are familiar with it.
As far as how well the games can actually be played, it's still my opinion that the square layout is technically inferior.
When I say how well a game can be played, I don't mean emulating the feel of any specific cabinet. I mean defeating your opponent, getting a higher score, etc. The curved layout provides the most natural platform to translate the skills in your head to success in the game, with the least physical hindrance in between. Every individual might need a slightly different curve because there hands are slightly different, but is very unlikely that someone's hand is shaped like a square.
This does not mean I'm saying that curved is superior to square. It depends where your priorities lie, and everyone is entitled to your own preference. I just don't understand it when people say they know which side is better for them when they've only given one side a chance.
Some people seem to think that they would not be able to transition to a curved layout because they are too used to the square, and that this somehow makes it difficult to use anything else and they shouldn't bother trying it out. Even if you've been using a square layout for thirty years, perhaps there would not be a very long transition time when adjusting to a layout that conforms to your hand, instead of the other way around.
There are a few cabinet projects here that are based on Candy cabinets like an Astro. Try the search tool.
Yes there are a few, but I can count the ones I've been able to find one hand. I've looked around a lot, and searched extensively with both the search tool here and using google (forum.arcadecontrols.com: search term). If you have links to some more custom candy cabs please share.
It's more common to find actual candy cabinets that people own, though. I've seen your New Astro City btw. Very, very nice. As far as non-home-made cabs go, that is my pretty much my ultimate dream.
I wouldn't say it's rare. There a LOT of projects here that use JLW's, JLF's and LS-32's as well as button layouts similar to the candy cabinets. Even Ultimarc's P360 is based on a JLW base and parts.
It's way more common than seeing the cabinets, but I'd still say its more the exception than the rule. I think the trend is already changing though, I think one or two of the BYOAC Award nominees have Japanese parts in them.
The MC Cthultu is a nice piece of hardware, but it's soon to be out dated by the newer PS360+'s that are hopefully coming out in the next little while. (Biggest cock-tease ever? yes.)
I think the PS360+ only supports Playstation 1, 2, and 3, XBox 360, and PC. The MC Cthulhu does all of those except 360, so using the PS360+ means giving up nine systems just to gain one. Anyway, it's not hard to add 360 to the MC Cthulhu with a dual mod.
The PS360+ does not make the MC Cthulhu obsolete. It just depends on your preference of which systems are important to you and how much electronics work you want to do.
Also note that building a cabinet with console support can be an issue depending on what monitor is being used. I.e, you need more than just this board to get the listed consoles you have there hooked up to your cabinet, like how to output the video properly. You see a lot of people using computer LCD's, or old CRT's that take VGA connections (or s-video if you're using those Dell monitors), even actual Arcade monitors, so you'll need a video up-converter to get those console connected. This could benefit those who use regular TV's I guess, but the pain and convulsion of having a lot of consoles hooked up at once is a bit daunting.
This is why most people are build Mame PC machines in their projects and run emulators.
Yeah, that's a good point. That's one reason the MC Cthulhu is great for portable controllers, so you can take it around to different consoles using different TV's.
You can still easily use it to put a few consoles with similar video requirements in one cabinet.
Like you said, you can use a video processor/upscaler to get all the systems in one cabinet. Due to the cost and setup, it's not for everybody. That's basically what I'm doing with my cabinet though, ten systems running through an XRGB-Mini/Switches/SLG-3000 to an LCD TV.
If anything, the thing that can be taken away from Japenese cabinet design is their use of space and accessibility to internals. The pull-out boards (akin to Dynamo drawers) is brilliant. The piano-hinged CP's, the lift-up monitor bezels and rotation mechanisms in Candy's are just plain smart. All in all, I think Candy cabinets are made very intelligent in terms of serviceability. That's what I'd like to see more of in projects here.
Agreed.
If you are going for a more general cabinet you might want to note that the japanese style sticks that are so good for fighting games are not nearly so good at other genres.
I can't speak for individual stick models because I have never bothered to try to identify which ones I am using, but they tend to be worse than average at controlling classic era games, underperforming in space shooters and seriously underperforming in 4-way games (even in 4-way mode).
You're making a broad statement about a whole group of joysticks and you don't even know which specific ones you've used. Right...
Anyhow, since I haven't tried enough of these specifically in 4-way I won't argue that point, but as far as 8-way goes I call BS. Are you talking about duplicating the feel of the original American Cabinets, or actually being able to do well in the game? There are a lot of Japanese sticks that work quite well for classic-era games, and many of them are outstanding for shooters.
I like the feel of jlf but the dead zone is quite large making it feel less precise. great for lenient inputs fighters but I like faster switch actuation the ls32 has. try loading up sf2hf then ssf2t,
I'll try this, I've got an LS-32 in my parts box and I'll stick it in one of my portable sticks when I get the chance. I need to try different ones to make decisions for my cabinet anyway.
Your hand is only curved when its lying down FLAT! When you are pressing buttons, your fingers are raised and bent... and so they form a STRAIGHT LINE!
When you spread your fingers apart, and bend them, they line up quite well. If you extend your middle finger too far... where it would so called "Naturally Be", it lies too flat, and becomes more difficult to effectively press the button. You want to press the the button vertically, using a straight path, gravity, and good bio-mechanical leverage and spring action.
In order to make your fingers go in a perfect downward pathway... then you have to adjust your fingers... and that adjustment, creates a straight line. Try doing the sequential 4 finger tap... both with a straight line, and with a curved layout.
Don't know about you, but my fingers don't make a straight line whether my fingers are laying flat or raised up.
My fingers can only line up in a straight line if you bend some a lot more than others. Does this look natural?
Almost all buttons which are critical, are concave.
? Continuing...
It makes it easier to tell where your fingers are. Keeps your fingers from slipping off / out. Directs the fingers to the center of the button, which keeps the button mechanically more effective.
Why do you need the buttons to direct your fingers to a certain place? You wouldn't have that problem if the buttons were located where your fingers naturally are anyway; and you don't need so much "bio-mechanical leverage" to press your buttons down if you have some that move freely and actuate responsively.
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The problem is that your just a Fanboy of a certain time period. Im Not. Im a fan of good games... and that means, any time period.
The modern Japanese cabinets are not the true arcade experience. They were a Generic creation of cost cutting, and space savings. Made well after the true arcade days.
most modern games today dont have any soul anymore
Gone are the days when cabinets actually had great cabinet art, like Journey, or Discs of Tron Environmental.
Atari created some incredible original classics. And look at Williams... Defender, Robotron, and a bunch of other excellent classics.
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Ok now that the crazed elephant has left the room I'll reply.
Preferences are preferences, that is just subjective. Either style is perfectly functional in it's own way.
That being said I find the original topic of this thread to be a little insulting. Believe it or not we are all well aware of Japanese parts and layouts.
The title of the thread is meant jokingly. I don't actually think that people were unaware of these things before I came along, it's more that I wondered why I don't see them more often.
japanese stick have always been kind of small as have the buttons, american sticks and buttons are big.... that's the end of it right there.
In my hand I have the most common Japanese button, a Sanwa 30mm button. In the other hand I have a Happ Competition. The overall diameter of these is almost exactly the same, and the plunger on the Sanwa is bigger.
You can get extended shafts, bigger ball tops, and bat tops for Japanese sticks and make them just as big. Why do they have to be huge anyway?
I mean most people here enjoy either 80's classics or early 90's classics... in America those games had "old school" sticks in them. Why in the world would we build a cab to enjoy those games and put the wrong sticks in them?
Some people want nostalgia, some people want to play as effectively as possible and excel at the game. Like you said, it's a preference.
Is there a "Japanese Parts and Button Layout Awareness" ribbon?
This made me laugh so hard I almost fell of my soap box!
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Topic: Raising Awareness of Japanese Parts and Button Layouts (Read 29715 times)
