Author Topic: New pinball table build: PIN-o-RAMA - 40/28/12 (Read 22074 times)

elfman12 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 15, 2010, 02:48:47 pm »

That makes sense. I was thinking about putting a couple of small fans on the bottom for intake, and not use a grill. But then I remembered how curious my cat is... haha.

elfman12 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:08:43 am »

Well, I'm getting there. Finished up several little things and a few big ones.

First, I got the coin door routed and fit in the front panel. Then managed to get her standing on her own four feet! I did a few checks with the PC case on the shelf, and the subwoofer in it's place.

I attached the backglass bottom piece to the plate on the main body, using 4 bolts, 8 washers, 4 lockwashers and 4 nuts. They are pretty hefty and should hold the whole assembly pretty tight.

It's looking like a pinball machine now! WooHoo!!!

I still want to figure out the BEST distance from the glass to put the playfield LCD... I would like it to be about 1.5" near the backglass, and 2" near the player. I think that would give a cool 3D look with the depth and reflections, but I'm not totally convinced. Any opinions?

elfman12 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:44:23 am »

Ok, I lopped the metal tabs off of the edges of the frame on the playfield monitor. Burned through a couple of heavy duty cut off wheels on the dremel, but it worked.

I put a couple of temporary braces inside the cab (rear) to hold the monitor as I tested it. I let the front rest on the sub woofer, and would adjust it there for optimal height. I'll make better bracing when I nail down the final location.

Right now, as you can see in the last pic, I have about 1-1/4" from the screen to the glass height in the back, and about 2-3/4" in the front. This just seemed to feel right as I stood at it, but I'll be able to get a better feel when I hook it up and test I guess.

Question: What's YOUR opinion on that slope? Will it help with the viewing angle of the LCD? Does it create a good illusion of depth, or does it hurt it? What are the slope measurements in your cab?

Thanks so much for any advice!!!

elfman12 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 21, 2010, 11:21:59 pm »

Ok, I finished a few things on the front panel (buttons, ball launcher) and mounted the backglass and DMD monitors. I made a last minute decision and went with a Hannspree 28" for the backglass instead of the 26" I had originally thought I'd use. It just fits the space better and gives a fuller look to the backboard.
They were VERY tight in there and I had to remove the top board to slide the top monitor in, but it works great when they are mounted. I'm going to have to figure out a way to have the top board remain easy to remove just in case I need to get in and work on the monitors... maybe something with latches on the inside?

The funnest thing though was hooking up the PC to all monitors and getting a quick play/eye line test on this rig! I have made the playfield monitor parallel with the 6.5degree slope of the side, and it works better than I thought it would. No viewing angel problems at all. I still have to get pinmame and vpinball setup to run all 3 LCD's, but I'll worry about that when I'm ready to finalize things. (because if I do it now, I'll start playing the cab and will NEVER finish building it! haha)

Next step - strip it back down to bare (assembled) wood, then spackle the screw holes, sand and primer.

Just keeping this thing updated. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear 'em!

Kurt · « **Reply #44 on:** February 22, 2010, 05:48:10 am »

Comming along, what are the blue things at the bottom left and right? nudge with your legs

elfman12 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 22, 2010, 03:52:14 pm »

Quote from: Kurt on February 22, 2010, 05:48:10 am

Comming along, what are the blue things at the bottom left and right? nudge with your legs

HAHA. Yes. I'm going to try that. I didn't want to have 3 buttons each on the flipper sides to do that, so I thought I'd see if this works. It's actually at the right height and feels a little bit natural, at least for me. If it doesn't work, I'll just plug the (normal button sized) holes and do something else.

I'm working on the backboard front piece now - kind of a pain...

Kurt · « **Reply #46 on:** February 22, 2010, 07:09:45 pm »

Quote from: elfman12 on February 22, 2010, 03:52:14 pm

I'm working on the backboard front piece now - kind of a pain...

Tell me about it im working on mine at the moment it's a real pain.

dekar24k · « **Reply #47 on:** February 23, 2010, 01:28:52 pm »

This beast is awesome. Can't wait to see it completed.

Epyx · « **Reply #48 on:** February 23, 2010, 04:07:49 pm »

Fantastic job so far...this will definitely be a future project for me but I might have to wait a spell between the current and this for marital reasons

Should look great when finished!

Paladin · « **Reply #49 on:** February 24, 2010, 08:48:55 am »

Let me try and read your mind --- 'Must not play, must keep working!'.

Am I close???

Excellent job so far, can't wait to see it finished.

elfman12 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 24, 2010, 05:26:07 pm »

Thanks you guys. And yeah, it's easier to work on it when it's non-functional. Otherwise "hey, just 1 game" takes over...

Jeff AMN · « **Reply #51 on:** February 24, 2010, 06:02:24 pm »

I'm planning on doing this, but I'll probably scale everything down by 3/4 or maybe even 1/2. This looks amazing so far and is only driving my desire to do it more and more.

elfman12 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:41:20 am »

Thanks all.
Here's more pics of work on the backbox (grrrrrr).
I started off wanting to do a 1/3 sized 1/2" thick board covering JUST the DMD and speakers, then drop glass down to that and cover the backglass monitor. The seam in the middle was the toughest thing to figure out, and I think it would have been really hard to make look good. (you can see that mocked up in the pic)

Sooo, I cut a full size 1/2" sheet to cover the front, put grooves in the sides and bottom of the box, then slid this sheet down in there. After painstaking measurements with the monitors locked down, I started routing out the holes in that sheet.
I kind of like the way it looks. I'm going to do some paint and artwork on those surfaces eventually. I wish I would have tilted it forward slightly. I made it perfectly upright (I slapped a level on it in one pic to show that) but in person it has the illusion of being slightly slanted back (because of the forward sloping sides).

Anyway, my main point I reached was "why use glass/plexi" at all on the backbox? It made sense on a MAME cab, when you're right there in front of it, but this is pretty far from the user. And besides, our TVs are all "uncovered" in the house - I play XBox 360 with friends in front of an "unprotected" big screen all the time, no protection isn't a big issue. (It certainly would be in a public place, however.)

If I cover the exposed frames and everything with a bezel or with wood like I have here, shouldn't that be enough? Am I missing something in my logic? If so, I will put a full 1/8" sheet in front (I allowed space for that in the channels I routed) or maybe BEHIND the front piece just cover the monitors.

Does that make sense?

Kurt · « **Reply #53 on:** February 25, 2010, 07:06:07 am »

More a personal choice to use glass or not i decided to use glass not only for a finishing point of view but i didnt like the ugly reflections LCD's give in some lighting, eg: your 2nd last pic..

Have you worked out a theme yet.

elfman12 · « **Reply #54 on:** February 25, 2010, 01:00:32 pm »

Quote from: Kurt on February 25, 2010, 07:06:07 am

ugly reflections LCD's give in some lighting, eg: your 2nd last pic..

Well, the reason for that reflection is that I still have the protective plastic sheet on the monitor. I'm paranoid about scratching them will all these tests, so I keep it on both the backglass and playfield monitors. The DMD monitor doesn't have the film on it (cause it's an older monitor).

Yeah, the theme is sort of a late 60's era pins, with classic bowling-style graphical doo dads..... still having to clarify that but I've attached my "idea" sheet. I'm probably most inspired by "Barney's Bowl-o-Rama" on the Simpsons. It has that 50's-60's style in the art.

To do that right, I will need to use lighter colors, which is tough in hiding things in that backbox... so the full front piece might make that easier for me.

elfman12 · « **Reply #55 on:** March 01, 2010, 12:33:56 am »

Finally finished the routing for the backglass monitor and speaker holes. I used a chamfer bit to smooth them out, then started sanding, sanding, sanding. Everything. Not near as big a mess as cutting MDF, but still very dusty. Allergies kept making me have to sneeze, so I'd remove my filter mask to sneeze, then breathe in dust, then cough. Kind of an endless loop. hehe

Put the primer on today, 2nd coated the outside surfaces. I'm probably going to have most of the external wood surfaces covered in printed artwork (not the back of the backbox, and not on the monitor/dmd/speaker bezel), so I'm going to begin wiring controls and installing side rails, glass, etc next - so it'll stay primer white for awhile.

Quick question (I'm not that great at painting). In the last picture here is an example of how the paint is kind of stippled - from the roller - does that need to be sanded out with a fine grit sandpaper, or do I just leave that texture? I left it on my MAME cab, but it was black and I didn't use any artwork that needed a flat surface. Any help is most appreciated. thanks!

saleem · « **Reply #56 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:08:26 am »

use realy fine sandpaper if the texture of the undercoat bothers you too much.you might find you have to redo the priming a few times though to get it smooth.sand,prime,sand,prime.

javeryh · « **Reply #57 on:** March 01, 2010, 11:12:40 am »

Quote from: saleem on March 01, 2010, 11:08:26 am

use realy fine sandpaper if the texture of the undercoat bothers you too much.you might find you have to redo the priming a few times though to get it smooth.sand,prime,sand,prime.

Exactly. Painting is the hardest part (at least to me). Getting a smooth finish is challenging and time-consuming but it can be done if you really want to. Also, get some bondo for those edges! No matter how much paint you apply the edge of your side panel will always show through. If you cover the edges in bondo and sand it down to match the front you will get a seamless transition from the sides to the front - it takes 20 minutes and it will make a world of difference.

Very nice work so far - I'm loving these pin builds.

elfman12 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 01, 2010, 03:52:28 pm »

Good points, thanks. I didn't realize how big that gap on the edge was until I started painting it. Time to puddy that sucker up now!

elfman12 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 06, 2010, 03:03:27 am »

Here's a quick update and pics. Waiting on glass and lockdown bar re-adjustment. Should have those in mid-week next week. As of now I have 2 coats of primer on, just need to paint the inside area above the playfield monitor black, on the sides and front.
I've mainly just been getting cables planned out.
On the bottom near the front, I've put in a USB panel mount and an HDMI pass-thru plate. This last will run to a 1x2 HDMI splitter, and will feed the 2nd inputs on the playfield and backglass monitors. An external source can then be fed from this jack... for ex. notebook computer, main home theater rig, Xbox360/PS3, etc. (might as well use it if it's there, right?)
I've also put 4 cold cathode blue tubes on the underside - looks pretty nice.

saleem · « **Reply #60 on:** March 06, 2010, 10:54:28 am »

are them blue things buttons?you dont need the leds on the bottom of the table,i think they look ugly,if they ahd been hidden and cast their light would have been nice but,its like me taking leds and just putting them round the edge of my computer tower,they look ugly and serve no purpose.

how about more maturer buttons to lift your project from good to greatness?

look at this for example of button:
http://www.frozencpu.com/ele-71.html

elfman12 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 06, 2010, 01:38:38 pm »

Quote from: saleem on March 06, 2010, 10:54:28 am

you dont need the leds on the bottom of the table,i think they look ugly,if they ahd been hidden and cast their light would have been nice

Actually they aren't visible unless you're about 1ft tall. :-) All you see is the soft blue glow on the floor below the table. It's pretty simple: if it doesn't look good in the space this ends up, unplug.

Quote

maturer buttons

Not sure what you mean by that.... as I explained above, I'm going to test those "knee nudge" buttons to see if they work well or are practical. If not, they get plugged up.

Thanks for the opinions, though. ;-)

EDIT: Just looked at the buttons you linked to. Very nice!
However, in this build I need to be able to insert custom labels in illuminated buttons. This is much more important on a pinball cab than it is on my MAME cab. The navigation of the FE is less intuitive, and I want to make it to where anyone can walk up to this machine and get around on it.
Buttons like launch table, exit table, game start, extra ball, flyers, game card, special and custom game lists need to be addressed. On my MAME cab I can double-use some of my player buttons, but there are only 2(4) flipper buttons on a pinball cab, so several need to be added.

Kurt · « **Reply #62 on:** March 06, 2010, 08:03:31 pm »

Looking good mate, did you end up sanding the primer a little?

The button linked would be crap as admin buttons, i just installed the same vandal switch on my pin as a power button thats all its good for i think.

I mounted it behind the backglass so the kids have no way of playing with it.

elfman12 · « **Reply #63 on:** March 06, 2010, 10:44:34 pm »

Yup, still sanding with fine grit. Mainly getting it smooth for the vinyl pieces. I'm realizing that anything other than black requires much more attention to detail. (flat black, that is. Piano black takes a ton of work, it looks like. But man it sho do look good!)

I'm using that purple standard button below the cab near the front right for power. I want to put a raised ring around it to recess it a bit, but I put it there because that's where I remember the power toggles were on the old pins I used to play. Is that where they are on newer machines?

Kurt · « **Reply #64 on:** March 06, 2010, 11:03:01 pm »

No idea man i havent seen or looked at a real pinball machine in 15yrs. I put mine high just so the kids can't play with it as they like to do.

elfman12 · « **Reply #65 on:** March 07, 2010, 05:02:27 pm »

Quote from: Kurt on March 06, 2010, 11:03:01 pm

No idea man i havent seen or looked at a real pinball machine in 15yrs. I put mine high just so the kids can't play with it as they like to do.

Smart! haha. I was thinking about putting a fan with no grill on the bottom of my cab, until I realized how curious my cat is! hehe. Kitty go "ouch."

elfman12 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 11, 2010, 03:54:03 am »

Got my playfield glass in today! 1/4" tempered, clear. $40 at local glass shop for a 22-1/2" x 39-1/4" sheet, took 1 week to arrive. I got some new "closed cell" foam weatherstripping for the glass to rest on. I had the squishier rubber kind, but it squashed quite a bit (plus I had it in 3/8" and needed to move up to a full 3/4 to support the glass). This newer stuff is meant to reduce vibration, shock etc. I'm putting a thin (5/16") strip of felt on the underside of the side rails, so that they aren't resting directly on the glass. I had to Dremel off several inches of the side rails (pic) and grind it out smooth. They fit well now. I'm going to wait to cut out the 2nd flipper holes though, when everything gets reassembled.

So finally, I CAN PUT MY MAIN FLIPPER BUTTONS IN! WOOHOO! (bout time, hehe) I installed them with leaf switches, and also mounted a microswitch with a long actuator to work with the plunger (see pic). Works great, but let's see if the metal bends after awhile. I also had to put in heavy duty drawer rails and a new drawer, since the medium duty ones I had were bending with the weight of the PC when pulled out.

Kurt · « **Reply #67 on:** March 11, 2010, 04:36:22 am »

Looks awesome man well done, Glass takes it to a new level

Where did you get the leaf switches and holders for the flipper buttons? I'm yet to source them here in Oz.

epthegeek · « **Reply #68 on:** March 11, 2010, 10:14:00 am »

You're using a de-cased 28" for the backglass LCD? Would you mind measuring how wide it is? I picked up an old empty gottlieb cabinet to build into a pin cabinet and the head box is only about 25 1/4 inches across on the inside. Trying to decide if I can squeeze in a 28 or not.

Your cabinet looks excellent! Nice work!

elfman12 · « **Reply #69 on:** March 11, 2010, 01:17:37 pm »

I bought those flipper leaf assemblies back when I was building my MAME cab (in 2002) and I thought they were from Happs, but can't remember for sure. Pinball Life has the buttons:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1864&parent=0
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=151&parent=234

The 28" de-cased is exactly 24-3/4" x 16-1/2". It is this model:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=H94-2810
Looks like it should fit perfectly, 1/4" on each side.
EDIT: Be aware that this TV won't do power return (reuturn to power on state after power is removed), and it won't come on by taping the power button down. I'm hacking a universal remote to power it on... :'( Otherwise it does 1:1 and looks great with HDMI 1920x1080 input, colors are great.

Thanks.

epthegeek · « **Reply #70 on:** March 11, 2010, 02:19:01 pm »

Thanks for the info! Pity about the power on problem though.

elfman12 · « **Reply #71 on:** March 17, 2010, 12:35:55 am »

I ran into a little issue with the lockdown bar height. As you can see in the pics, after I added the foam strip that the playfield glass rests on, and after attaching the felt onto the side rails that touch the glass (I have brown ones here, replacing with black when it comes in) - Well, that raised the height about 5/8" over what it was initially. (Look at the gap under the piece of the lockdown bar). So, I just put a 3/4" thick strip onto the front piece to make up for that.
I just wanted to point that out in case others might need to account for that earlier in the build than I did! haha

I also changed the case for my PC. I'm using an acrylic "test station" case, which works perfectly for this type of project. It's easy to get to parts, is low weight and has a small footprint. Costs around $59 if you catch it on sale. Here's a link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811166053

Now, on with the wiring....

Kurt · « **Reply #72 on:** March 17, 2010, 07:50:22 am »

d'oh im going to have that issue with my lockdown bar as well, I like that tech station case suits the setup.

If you get a chance are you able to take a side shot of the rails also close up.. Im thinking off drilling my rails to add the extra buttons but alittle worried the metal shop will screw it up.

javeryh · « **Reply #73 on:** March 17, 2010, 04:01:46 pm »

Looking really nice. I want to build one of these so bad!

elfman12 · « **Reply #74 on:** March 19, 2010, 01:29:56 am »

Here a pic of the hole I cut in the side rail button area. It's a bit bigger, but that was only because it was the only hole cutter handy.

blueznl · « **Reply #75 on:** March 19, 2010, 01:42:33 pm »

All these pins are great, is there a site that describes how to set up the software? Especially those backboards seem to be... eh... somewhat difficult :-)

elfman12 · « **Reply #76 on:** March 19, 2010, 01:55:54 pm »

Future Pinball is pretty easy to setup and run, Visual Pinball can be a lot trickier (but it's a better sim, IMHO). There's an install package out there for VP that setups up most everything for you. The big thing to remember is to get the machine specific script files in the TABLES folder, the roms in the ROMS folder and setup both VP and FP to run in XP3 compatibility mode and as administrator.

vpforums.org has all of the files you need. If you are setting up a "cab style" setup, then you'll need the cabinet build version of the VP dll, (just search downloads at vpforums). And use HyperPin as your Front End, it will take care of the backglasses for you. The help file for HP will also explain all of these steps, I believe.

elfman12 · « **Reply #77 on:** March 23, 2010, 02:22:57 pm »

Well, I hit a milestone with this build: I've moved the rig from the garage into the game room!

I finished the wiring and sanded everything down again, then moved it upstairs.
I still have to fit the playfield bezel, and get the lockdown bar reassembled/welded. I had a bulb go supernova and melt the button it was in before it burned out (last pic). Weird. It did seem to glow brighter than the others (check it out in earlier pics) but I didn't think it would do that. I wonder if I can get a replacement from Happs? Oh well.
I think I'll end up removing the "knee nudge" buttons, although I'm going to continue to test them for a bit before I decide for sure. When sitting on a stool, you can't really use them easily and they get accidentally bumped then too. It was worth a try, though.
I am also finishing up a logo for the DMD screen and for the side art. I'm liking the white/black of the cab right now, actually, so I may rethink the amount of vinyl I was going to put on (but I also might then have to do another coat of paint to smooth things out a bit.)

Kurt · « **Reply #78 on:** March 24, 2010, 01:15:22 am »

Well done mate, Night pics look great awesome work have you set anything up as far as nudging goes?

White grows on you aye.. I have to cover mine up and soon before mdf primer becomes the finial coat

Edit: I just noticed the cup holder lol, there is no time for beverages when playing pinball shame on you.

rchadd · « **Reply #79 on:** June 07, 2010, 01:08:23 pm »

looks great i could be tempted to try a similar project.

one question - how does the pinball software support 3 monitors?!

i've seen graphics cards with 2 monitor support for shared windows desktop but how to support 3?

do you need special gfx card or more than one card?


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