I just got an insane (and probably pricy idea)

[Alpha17X]

I was bored, making cpanel overlays in photoshop and illustrator, when i thought; wouldn't it be so super awesome if the overlay changed based on the game you loaded up?  Sort of like how you can have a bezel overlay for each game (which I think is a great way of using a widescreen LCD as an arcade display, game aspect stays as it should, the rest of the screen blends in with the cabinet through the magic of a png file.)   

I figure a cabinet that can do this with the cpanel overlay would be awesome.  Then I realized that this would require poking holes in an LCD screen, and also having one of a custom shape and size.

Imagine it,  you load up.. I dunno, Street fighter, and you've got the street fighter overlay instantly,  mortal kombat loads,  the MK overlay appears.  I was also getting crazy ideas about having it be touch sensetive too, well, certain areas of it.

I figured, I could use my bonus to get a huge tv,  or do this.   What do you guys think?  Crazy?  or Crazy-Awesome?

[SavannahLion]

Then I realized that this would require poking holes in an LCD screen, and also having one of a custom shape and size.

Wouldn't work. Go down the street on trash day (not the weekly one) and you'll see why so many LCD screens get thrown away. Once the LCD is damaged like that, that's it.

[DashRendar]

Might be possible with mirrors and a projector, in some convoluted Rube Goldberg machine...or not. 

Would be awesome if technically possible.

[Alpha17X]

Oh. projection!. Brilliant.  I hadn't thought of that.  So I could do it how the MS Surface displays work.

[SavannahLion]

Might be possible with mirrors and a projector, in some convoluted Rube Goldberg machine...or not. 

They certainly make projectors small enough.

[mccoy178]

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

[SavannahLion]

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

It's low voltage signal wire, right? It's also got an excessively low switch rate.

In that case, run some enameled wire. No way it's going to be a crimp job. It's gotta be soldered and you might have to double or triple wire each lead for redundancy. It is, after all, not stranded wire but solid and comes with all the problems solid wire entails.

So solder one (or two or three) strands of enameled to a tab. Find some place to do a small loop (such as around the immobile plastic post on a button) as a strain relief, maybe a small dollop of hot glue. Run the the strand tight-ish to the nearest edge, another strain loop then run around the edge until you reach the controller. Might have to do some soldering to pigtails or directly to the PCB (like the eco-wiz).

If the OP can figure out how to do the projector/mirror thing, the enameled wire would be no different than wire on the Sony CRT monitors.

[Alpha17X]

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

Well it's a cabinet.  I imagine there are lots of places in it for wiring to be placed.

[DJ_Izumi]

You'd need to custom build an OLED screen, similar to the technology used in this:  http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

I imagine it'd be costly as hell to get such a one of product built.

[Alpha17X]

I think I'm going to go the projection route,  The prototype is going to be ugly as hell.

I've got a few projectors here, I've been experimenting for the last 45 minutes.  Basically doing rear projection experiments through a rectangular box based on what I know of how the MS Surface displays work. Sans the camera based multi-touch, because I don't want to get TOO far ahead of myself.

[mccoy178]

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

It's low voltage signal wire, right? It's also got an excessively low switch rate.

In that case, run some enameled wire. No way it's going to be a crimp job. It's gotta be soldered and you might have to double or triple wire each lead for redundancy. It is, after all, not stranded wire but solid and comes with all the problems solid wire entails.

So solder one (or two or three) strands of enameled to a tab. Find some place to do a small loop (such as around the immobile plastic post on a button) as a strain relief, maybe a small dollop of hot glue. Run the the strand tight-ish to the nearest edge, another strain loop then run around the edge until you reach the controller. Might have to do some soldering to pigtails or directly to the PCB (like the eco-wiz).

If the OP can figure out how to do the projector/mirror thing, the enameled wire would be no different than wire on the Sony CRT monitors.

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

Well it's a cabinet.  I imagine there are lots of places in it for wiring to be placed.

I was talking more in terms of the joystick mounts, trackball housing, etc.  You could take the wiring directly down past the reflective mirrors or whatever, but you're going to have a big dark area around those components.

[drventure]

Could be a cool idea, but wow, it'd take some work to pull it off

About the wiring. I think you could possibly integrate the wiring into the image design.

For instance, Fred Eerdeken does this "shadow art" that is essentially the same idea.



So you bend the wiring to create shadows on the CP from the projected image, and the shadows could become part of the image somehow.

Like I said, it'd take a LOT to pull it off. 

[Alpha17X]

Oh yeah. wiring produces shadows.  I'm sure I could figure it out.  or guide it in a pattern and make that part of the 'look'  as suggested.   One way or another, I'm determined to make this work,  be it projection, or some  crazy custom shaped LCD/OLED/LED screen.


*Corrected dyslexia*

[Alpha17X]

Figured out how it can be done. 

Rear projection diffusion against a custom shaped screen.  Some 'screen space' is going to be lost due to the wiring, but I think I have that figured out too.  I'll see if I can do a mock-up later to show how I'm going to do it.   

Another way would have multiple custom sized LCD or OLED (borderless) screens working in tandem, but this method is likely to cost less.

After this experiment I think I might see if I can get something going with a sort of matrix of LED's in an RGB sequence.  but that's a ways down the road.

[SavannahLion]

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

It's low voltage signal wire, right? It's also got an excessively low switch rate.

In that case, run some enameled wire. No way it's going to be a crimp job. It's gotta be soldered and you might have to double or triple wire each lead for redundancy. It is, after all, not stranded wire but solid and comes with all the problems solid wire entails.

So solder one (or two or three) strands of enameled to a tab. Find some place to do a small loop (such as around the immobile plastic post on a button) as a strain relief, maybe a small dollop of hot glue. Run the the strand tight-ish to the nearest edge, another strain loop then run around the edge until you reach the controller. Might have to do some soldering to pigtails or directly to the PCB (like the eco-wiz).

If the OP can figure out how to do the projector/mirror thing, the enameled wire would be no different than wire on the Sony CRT monitors.

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

Well it's a cabinet.  I imagine there are lots of places in it for wiring to be placed.

I was talking more in terms of the joystick mounts, trackball housing, etc.  You could take the wiring directly down past the reflective mirrors or whatever, but you're going to have a big dark area around those components.

Yeah, saw (or didn't) see that. But really, it's, not that big of a deal if we're discussing projection methods. Simply create a nice detail right where the dark portion is. Add a subtle rim border and detail the dark portion however you like. A number of CP designs sport this already, such as this and this Simpsons one.

[Alpha17X]

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

It's low voltage signal wire, right? It's also got an excessively low switch rate.

In that case, run some enameled wire. No way it's going to be a crimp job. It's gotta be soldered and you might have to double or triple wire each lead for redundancy. It is, after all, not stranded wire but solid and comes with all the problems solid wire entails.

So solder one (or two or three) strands of enameled to a tab. Find some place to do a small loop (such as around the immobile plastic post on a button) as a strain relief, maybe a small dollop of hot glue. Run the the strand tight-ish to the nearest edge, another strain loop then run around the edge until you reach the controller. Might have to do some soldering to pigtails or directly to the PCB (like the eco-wiz).

If the OP can figure out how to do the projector/mirror thing, the enameled wire would be no different than wire on the Sony CRT monitors.

Now if you could only hide all that wiring and stuff.........................

Well it's a cabinet.  I imagine there are lots of places in it for wiring to be placed.

I was talking more in terms of the joystick mounts, trackball housing, etc.  You could take the wiring directly down past the reflective mirrors or whatever, but you're going to have a big dark area around those components.

Yeah, saw (or didn't) see that. But really, it's, not that big of a deal if we're discussing projection methods. Simply create a nice detail right where the dark portion is. Add a subtle rim border and detail the dark portion however you like. A number of CP designs sport this already, such as this and this Simpsons one.

Yeah exactly. i'm just guiding the wiring through a 'pattern'

It will go along the black areas in this pattern.  I'll have to make some custom cpanel images.  I think my biggest challenge will actually be heat management issues (projector lamps are hot after all)  and experimenting to get a clear projection and minimal to no wash-out.

I also found a few companies that make custom shaped screens, even some with holes in them (the control module just considers those areas to be dead pixels)  but those were very very pricy.


This is fun.

[drventure]

Ok, this has really got my curiosity up. Will be following this thread!

I also found a few companies that make custom shaped screens, even some with holes in them (the control module just considers those areas to be dead pixels)  but those were very very pricy.

Never heard of that, but holy hell, i can only imagine how much they charge for those panels!

[bgspot]

Cool idea but i thought the point of retro gaming was game play...

[Alpha17X]

Yeah, smallest quote I heard of from old colleagues who helped set up E3 Booths said the lowest they ever heard of a custom shaped LCD screen go for was 7 thousand.


I'm looking into the MPro150, trying to find out how long it can run continously.

http://www.3m.com/mpro/

[Alpha17X]

Cool idea but i thought the point of retro gaming was game play...

I've already made a crap-ton of games for my cabinet, I want to do something different.

[DJ_Izumi]

Does anyone else see a issue with having a projector aimed up at the general direction of your face, or is that just me?

[Alpha17X]

That, my dear friend, is where we put the diffusion in Rear Diffusion Projection.

[RayB]

What's next, a cabinet that morphs into the shape of the game's original dedicated form? 

[DJ_Izumi]

What's next, a cabinet that morphs into the shape of the game's original dedicated form? 

"It's Morphin' Time!"

[protokatie]

[Alpha17X]

What's next, a cabinet that morphs into the shape of the game's original dedicated form? 

Now you're just being mean     But I bet it could be done with some sort of grid resticted modular system.   *puts that on a to-do list*

[Gatt]

Not sure how good it'd look,  but in theory...

You could do it by mounting an LCD and then a clear panel that actually houses the controls above it,  almost like that one guy's (Incredible) Modular control panel.  The LCD then displays the control panel,  visible through the clear panel.  Might look ok.

Problem is,  there's no artwork of sufficient quality or size to do this with.

As far as touchscreen goes,  that's not that hard.  Draw the art,  custom program to pull the X/Y coords from input.  Response time is an issue,  so is lack of tactile feedback,  and probably wear over the long-term.  Regardless,  touchscreen is not a major difficulty.

Would be nice if there were quality small LCD panels,  could in theory be possible to use them to display game instructions without sacrificing screen real estate.  I may have to look into this further sometime soon...

[SophT]

Does anyone else see a issue with having a projector aimed up at the general direction of your face, or is that just me?

I think either a mirror or angled projection could resolve this - as well as diffusion, so you're not looking directly at the control panel pretty easily - as well as strategically placed art on the actual CP that covers the lens for the players.

can't wait to see the prototype.  Too bad this is going to go down as the most expensive CP EVER though - with the cost of projector and the recurring cost of lamps.

[saurian333]

The only problem I see with hiding the wiring as part of the artwork relates to your original premise:  The artwork is different for every game, and wires come directly from the buttons to somewhere else.  How can you route the wires through some fixed pieces of the artwork and have the controls display properly?

The other problem I see with the idea in general:  Games have different button layouts, not just assignments.  You can't project a MK CP onto a six-button layout, for example.

The only solution I can think of for either of these would work for both:  Design a custom overlay image for every game.  That's a lot of work, but if you're serious about trying this, that might be your best option.

[DJ_Izumi]

The only problem I see with hiding the wiring as part of the artwork relates to your original premise:  The artwork is different for every game, and wires come directly from the buttons to somewhere else.  How can you route the wires through some fixed pieces of the artwork and have the controls display properly?

The other problem I see with the idea in general:  Games have different button layouts, not just assignments.  You can't project a MK CP onto a six-button layout, for example.

The only solution I can think of for either of these would work for both:  Design a custom overlay image for every game.  That's a lot of work, but if you're serious about trying this, that might be your best option.

Considdering that, wouldn't it be easier to just put OLEDs into the buttons themselves so they can say what their current assignment is, or if they are currently inactive for the game?

Agian, the idea seen here, only applied differently than I originally suggested; http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

[Alpha17X]

I'm doing all the art so the position of elements is adaptive.   the rom is launched in MAME, while at the same time an Adobe Air or Flash app sends an image or video to the projector, which causes the theme/skin of the cpanel to change to one that matches the game being played.

Sort of like changing the desktop background in windows

I'm a artist by trade and I only intend to apply this process to games on a favorites list of sorts,  I'm not going to make 30,000+ cpanel overlays for games I may or may not ever play.

And this is more of an experiment than anything else.   I expect the prototype to be the most hideous control panel ever beheld while I experiment with angles and mirror positioning among other things.

[Thenasty]

MAMEformers  Arcade in Disguise  

[saurian333]

Considdering that, wouldn't it be easier to just put OLEDs into the buttons themselves so they can say what their current assignment is, or if they are currently inactive for the game?

Agian, the idea seen here, only applied differently than I originally suggested; http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

Thought of that too; arcade buttons like that would be sweet.  I actually know one person who owns the Optimus.  He's an idiot for spending that much money on a keyboard, but let me tell you, it is HOT.

Anyway, that idea is great for what most of us would probably want, but it doesn't actually change the artwork on the CPO like the OP is suggesting.  Maybe a combination of the two?

I'm doing all the art so the position of elements is adaptive.   the rom is launched in MAME, while at the same time an Adobe Air or Flash app sends an image or video to the projector, which causes the theme/skin of the cpanel to change to one that matches the game being played.

Actually, you could just modify the frontend to do that.  Most of them already support displaying cpanels from the default directory, so you'd just have to get it to display on the projector and remain there during the game.  Although if you think Air or Flash makes it easier for you, that's your choice, naturally.  Just thought it would be nice to see it integrated into a frontend in a way that might have cross-platform applications (Java or C++ or even Python, for example).  But I'm biased as a Linux user, of course.

I do think it's a very cool idea, and I'm interested to see if you manage to work things out.

[HaRuMaN]

nm

[DashRendar]

Not sure how good it'd look,  but in theory...

You could do it by mounting an LCD and then a clear panel that actually houses the controls above it,  almost like that one guy's (Incredible) Modular control panel.  The LCD then displays the control panel,  visible through the clear panel.  Might look ok.

Interesting idea- and you could use this for the projection method as well.

Instead of projecting to the CP layer itself, you could place your projector screen a couple inches below the CP surface.  You would be able to see your multi-media CPO without it being in your face.  This would also avoid casting any shadows from the controls/wires underneath the CP.

I'm thinking someone did something like this with a marquee.  Anyone remember that?

[drventure]

Instead of projecting to the CP layer itself, you could place your projector screen a couple inches below the CP surface.  You would be able to see your multi-media CPO without it being in your face.  This would also avoid casting any shadows from the controls/wires underneath the CP.

But wouldn't that make for some weird parallax issues? You'd have to be standing just right for it to look even remotely good. and if the CP is clear (so you could see down below it), then you'd still have all those wires to deal with (though I suppose you could wrap them nicely and use various case mod elements to dress em up..)

I'm thinking the only way to do this right is grey goo 

PM Ond. I think that's actually what he's making his cabinet out of! 

[saurian333]

Instead of projecting to the CP layer itself, you could place your projector screen a couple inches below the CP surface.  You would be able to see your multi-media CPO without it being in your face.  This would also avoid casting any shadows from the controls/wires underneath the CP.

But wouldn't that make for some weird parallax issues? You'd have to be standing just right for it to look even remotely good. and if the CP is clear (so you could see down below it), then you'd still have all those wires to deal with [...]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking, same with the LCD idea.

@Alpha17x:  If you're still looking for a projector, check this out...pretty good deal.  Price good until Friday.
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MINIAV-LED-PROJ&cat=CON
They have that little 3M one too, but that baby's expensive.  This is small, and would probably yield the same results, but on the cheap.

[Brutal E]

I was thinking of using a digital picture frame to make a marquee that you can change easily. They are not real expensive and look pretty good. Maybe a couple of them could be used to get the desired effect. Like one above and below the buttons on both and one near each side and one center of control panel. All covered with plexi to protect them.

[saurian333]

I was thinking of using a digital picture frame to make a marquee that you can change easily. They are not real expensive and look pretty good. Maybe a couple of them could be used to get the desired effect. Like one above and below the buttons on both and one near each side and one center of control panel. All covered with plexi to protect them.

I haven't used one before, but I'm not sure you can set up a computer to display a specific picture to it directly, like with a monitor.  You'd have to manually switch all those displays.  Can anyone confirm that?  I'm sure they all act differently anyway, but my understanding is they just cycle through (or you can select) photos on a memory card.

[drventure]

Most of the pic frames that I've seen don't allow you to "push" anything directly to the display.

But, there's that MIMO I mention here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=88515.msg1022186#msg1022186

That might work, but it'd get expensive for several of them.