So how good is the Mame cabinet market?

[Hoagie_one]

Was thinking about buying old working cabs, converting them to mame cabs and reselling them.

Is there any kind of market for this thats profitable or is the market already filled with do it yourselfers?

[severdhed]

there are a few people doing it, i dont know how much profit there is in it though.  here are the problems i see with it:

shipping a cabinet is not cheap or easy

you cannot legally distribute mame roms, so people would have to find them on their own...that makes it difficult for the average consumer....people want something that works right out of the box.

there are probably not alot of people who would want a full size arcade cabinet in their house, and if they do, then they more than likely already found this website.

[Jack Burton]

I'll admit it, if i sold a MAME cab I'd sell it with the ROMS fully installed.  Why shouldn't I?  They're just going to go and download them anyway.  Think what you will of me, become indignant, whatever.  We all download thousands of them, and that's just as illegal as selling them.  We're all pirates.  I think selling a cab with the potential and intent for mass piracy is the same as selling one with the games already installed.  It's like the guys who sell mod chips for consoles who claim they are only supporting the homebrew community when they know 99% of their chips will be used to play commercial games illegally. 

Now, on the practical side of things you might want to have a look at the David R. Foley thread stickied at the top of the foum.  I'm 99% that would never happen to someone making a few MAME cabs and privately selling them loaded to the hilt with ROMS from every developer, but it does give you a little bit of pause.

[Beretta]

there is definitely money to be made if you wanna convert cabs and sell them as mame.
the question is the profit worth the effort? i suppose that would depend on a lot of factors.

i've seen mame cabs for sell.. almost (95%+) always the roms are left on the machine.. thats illegal as hell.

like severdhed said you can't get as much if you give them a cabinet, even if it's nice and ready to go just needing roms, people want it to go as soon as they plug it in..

give it a shot if you like, you can probably make a little money even if you do not include the roms but definatley not as much, i can at least say you wont lose money (i think)



jack ever heard of the betamax trials? just because you're selling something with the potential for illegal activity does'nt make it so.

and it's perfectly legal to play them if you own the original boards (working or not) it's fair use, so long as you dont also have the original board in use at the same time.

so while 99% of the people out there will be playing games they dont own that does not mean there is no legitimate use.

now as for downloading and playing roms you dont own, illegal? yes, but i guarantee you selling them will put you on the laws radar a lot faster, dont kid your self law enforcement has limited resources this is why they go after drug dealers, and not the users (usually)

get a clue, personal use is to selling as jay walking is to armed robery.

[TOK]

I think most people doing this are just putting 48-in-1's or xxx-in-1's in JAMMA cabs, skipping the computer part altogether.
The ones near me are advertised over and over, so they're either just showing a pic of their best cab as an example, or they aren't selling any of them.

[Lilwolf]

I don't think there is a profit in it at all....  Main trouble is there are tons of people trying to sell them on ebay... and I don't see them sell for much.  Too easy to put 20+ hours into a cab... not that easy to make a profit...

Its a niche market with people who seem like like playing with this stuff.

If it was me, I would try looking at do them super cheap using existing cabs jamma cabs, not modifying the art or control panel, and splerge on jpacs.  And make them so you can swap the original board back in (or keep it in, and just plug it back and forth.  So you can say 'value add, it still plays the original game' but really, your not doing as much to the cab... and you have a better chance of making a profit.

It would also help because then you could put a crappier computer in it and only support the games that use the original controls...

[garnerb350]

I'll admit it, if i sold a MAME cab I'd sell it with the ROMS fully installed.  Why shouldn't I?  They're just going to go and download them anyway.  Think what you will of me, become indignant, whatever.  We all download thousands of them, and that's just as illegal as selling them.  We're all pirates. 

Arrrrrgh!!! ya dam right ya scallywag!!!

This thought has crossed my mind plenty of times...I found plans and i built my cab from stratch...went to some hobo who sold computer parts...and when i told him what i was doing, he told he had plenty of parts for future builds ( he needed steady customers i guess)...over time i am still learning ( i'm not a software pro)and i have friends and strangers asking me to build them one. As of now I am currently in the process of making sure my frontend is complete with all the nessarcy artwork , etc...
If I was to "sell" anything ....i would probley only charge for labor ( construction) for the time being...The worst fear i would have is that something would screw up on the PC and I wouldnt  have a clue to tell them...

I don't think there is a profit in it at all....  Main trouble is there are tons of people trying to sell them on ebay... and I don't see them sell for much. 

Now i will tell ya something funny....I check my local craiglist to try and find arcade cabs & whatnot...and i always see at least 1-2 listings of people selling mame cabs...The photos are HORENDOUS!!!!...imagine taking your cats litter box and converting it into a cab. And what makes it funny is that those designs are the ones that hold an x-arcade...I cant stand to look at them, and my cab holds an x-arcade! (different design)...But those sellers are listing those cabs anywhere from 1000-1200 bucks...the insanity!....

Now one thing though that makes me feel good, is that I did have 2 people (who know nothing of MAME) on seperate occasions offered me $2000 for my cab...I honestly have to say I think that those 2 times were the hardest to say No. I just cant bring myself to screw people over. 

[drventure]

I just cant bring myself to screw people over.

I can certainly see your point, but if someone's offering, and the amount of work you have in the cab would justify 2000$, I can't say you'd be screwing anyone over. When I browse Ebay, I often see the EXACT same item for sale with prices that differ by hundreds of dollars. But I suppose if someone really needed something, didn't have the savvy or patience to search and concluded that a particular asking price was reasonable, then so be it. These are discretionary purchases after all.

On the other hand, if you're, say, a drug maker, you've got a drug that saves peoples lives, and you've already recouped the dev costs on it, and it costs .15c a dose, continuing to sell it for 500$ a dose is flat immoral.

I know, apples and oranges. Point is, people will pay what they feel is reasonable.

As far as selling mame cabs goes, I'd be VERY hesitant to sell cabs loaded with ROMS. Baretta's right, that just puts you out there with a big ol' target on your forehead. esp if you start making decent money at it. Not worth it.

Honestly, I suspect the market for cheaper, low end cabs is already saturated by companies out there, and by guys with just enough know how to do it themselves, so they won't buy a prebuilt.

Maybe there's a market for high end, very avante guard designs that wouldn't look like a huge black refrigerator in your living room. But then again, anyone with enough money to afford something like that (sans roms) would likely already have a game room where a black refrigerator would be perfectly acceptable.

I'd say your best bet is to build what you like, play it for a while, look at what you now don't like about it, take copious notes, then strip it of roms, build another one and ebay the original, lather and repeat.

[Ginsu Victim]

When I browse Ebay, I often see the EXACT same item for sale with prices that differ by hundreds of dollars.

Don't look at what people are asking, look at what actually sells and how much THOSE go for. Some people will list the same item over and over at a high price in hopes that at some point they'll get a bite, but usually don't.

[RayB]

For some people, the 48 in 1s are a better seller because buyers don't want "some old PC". They feel its a hack and they're not getting their money's worth. But a machine with a "proper" new circuit board, they feel is a good value.

[vputz]

I'll admit it, if i sold a MAME cab I'd sell it with the ROMS fully installed.  Why shouldn't I?  They're just going to go and download them anyway.... I think selling a cab with the potential and intent for mass piracy is the same as selling one with the games already installed. 

Doesn't have so much to do with "of course the buyer would never download ROMS because he has a full legal set already".  Sure, everyone knows they're going to get the ROMs, but it's legal to sell a MAME cab without roms and it's illegal to sell it with roms; that's pretty cut and dried.

Now, from a basic private-transaction point of view, there's probably no big deal either way. What you don't want to do is attract attention to the MAME project by blatantly selling "MAME plus thousands of ROM WAREZ!" and implying that using MAME means illegally using ROMs.  To me, it's even less legality than politeness.

Emulation projects get a lot of flak from companies even when everything's totally above the board.  As a simple courtesy to the developers, I wouldn't flaunt illegal activity.

[Beretta]

vputz thats a very good way of looking at it i totally missed.

you're right it would shed a bad light on mame, and it's disrespectful to their efforts, i agree.

[Todd H]

I had someone offer me a couple grand for my machine during a July 4th party. As tempting as it was I just couldn't part with the old girl.

[garnerb350]

I had someone offer me a couple grand for my machine during a July 4th party. As tempting as it was I just couldn't part with the old girl.

YES!, I"M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!!!

[javeryh]

I had someone offer me a couple grand for my machine during a July 4th party. As tempting as it was I just couldn't part with the old girl.

Same.  I've had people offer me a few thousand to build them one but I always decline.  If this great hobby ever became WORK I'd just cry.

[Todd H]

That's the reason I refuse to build one for my friends. It took a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and free time to finish my cabinet. I don't know if I could do it again. Plus, you know the time will come when they'll be calling you to come fix some type of problem. The customer support stuff would drive me insane.

[FrizzleFried]

Was thinking about buying old working cabs, converting them to mame cabs and reselling them.

Is there any kind of market for this thats profitable or is the market already filled with do it yourselfers?

It's NOT OK to buy WORKING dedicated arcade machines and MAME them.  That goes against everything that MAME stands for.  At least purchase NON-WORKING or GUTTED arcade cabinets to MAME.

[Ginsu Victim]

That's the reason I refuse to build one for my friends. It took a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and free time to finish my cabinet. I don't know if I could do it again. Plus, you know the time will come when they'll be calling you to come fix some type of problem. The customer support stuff would drive me insane.

I've made this mistake, and I know I'll make it again.....

[ChadTower]

I had someone offer me a couple grand for my machine during a July 4th party. As tempting as it was I just couldn't part with the old girl.

Same.  I've had people offer me a few thousand to build them one but I always decline.  If this great hobby ever became WORK I'd just cry.

Of course... they say that... but when it comes time to pony up the dough for parts you always get "wait, you were serious?!  How could you try to rip me off like that?  Bastard!

[Todd H]

That's the reason I refuse to build one for my friends. It took a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and free time to finish my cabinet. I don't know if I could do it again. Plus, you know the time will come when they'll be calling you to come fix some type of problem. The customer support stuff would drive me insane.

I've made this mistake, and I know I'll make it again.....

You sir are a better man than I. I learned my lesson a few years ago when I built computers for friends and families. My phone was ringing constantly.

[Spyridon]

Was thinking about buying old working cabs, converting them to mame cabs and reselling them.

Is there any kind of market for this thats profitable or is the market already filled with do it yourselfers?

It's NOT OK to buy WORKING dedicated arcade machines and MAME them.  That goes against everything that MAME stands for.  At least purchase NON-WORKING or GUTTED arcade cabinets to MAME.

I was about to make the same post.  A working dedicated cab should never be mamed (and neither should a non-working classic)

[garnerb350]

[You sir are a better man than I. I learned my lesson a few years ago when I built computers for friends and families. My phone was ringing constantly.

Yeah i know that one...I have people calling me asking me how to fix computers/software of stuff Ive never seen....how to make dovetail joints on wood...Had an aunt who saw my cab and she wants me to build a freaking clubhouse for her kids....and then she has the nerve to tell me that my joysticks are broken because she playing pac-man on an 8-way....

[Jack Burton]

jack ever heard of the betamax trials? just because you're selling something with the potential for illegal activity does'nt make it so.

and it's perfectly legal to play them if you own the original boards (working or not) it's fair use, so long as you dont also have the original board in use at the same time.

so while 99% of the people out there will be playing games they dont own that does not mean there is no legitimate use.

now as for downloading and playing roms you dont own, illegal? yes, but i guarantee you selling them will put you on the laws radar a lot faster, dont kid your self law enforcement has limited resources this is why they go after drug dealers, and not the users (usually)

get a clue, personal use is to selling as jay walking is to armed robery.

The DMCA changed fair use.  It is in direct conflict with the results of the Betamax trials.  It's now illegal to posssess any technology whose main function is to circumvent copyright.  I think a MAME cab qualifies for this.  It's a ludicrous law though, as it also technically outlaws DVD burners and VCR's. 

The DMCA also changed fair use laws when it comes to having a personal copy.  You are allowed to have a copy as long as you made it yourself.  But you can't use it for entertainment purposes, only for back-up use.  So that puts playing any ROMs out.  And going back to the first idea, it's illegal to use any device that would even let you make that copy in the first place.  It's ridiculous.  Probably wouldn't stand up in the supreme court, but nobodies taken it that far.

But I digress.  I wasn't talking about legal issues.  I was talking about the morality of saying that it is wrong to sell a cab full of roms to a friend when you know that they are going to go and download said ROMs as soon as they get home.   

I agree, it would be stupid to try to set-up a business that is blatantly illegal.  It would be like me setting up a store selling nothing but burned dvd's or putting an ad in the newspaper advertising my cable box modding services.  People who try this stuff go to jail regularly.  My own brother in law served a year in prison for CD piracy.

[Turnarcades]

Back on topic, I think I'm qualified enough to add a decent comment here.....

Building/selling cabinets can be a winner, but you will not break the bank with it. As I spent a lot of time doing my homework, it paid off for us - 4 years and 100+ custom projects later we're still going strong. However, I was warned a million times tha it cannot be made successful and trying to make a quick buck with effortless conversions would not be worth it; so that is exactly what I didn't do. I set out with a goal to create more personal machines at a price I would be willing to pay - so effectively selling to people like me.

If you intend to do it, you will need to build a rapport within the community, with your potential demographic and also with suppliers to ensure your expenditure is low, your reputation is good and you find your niche market. I've witnessed many small-time builders come and go in the same time we've been around and the main reason is they are outsiders with little arcade interest who are more interested in the money than the hobby. If you are a hobbyist you are more likely to build machines you would be pleased with and identify what is important for a gamer, rather than focusing on the financial rewards. If you can keep this mind-set and offer something that no other builder does you will enjoy what you do and make a nice earner in the process.

Speaking from experience I can say it was not easy for me and still isn't. I used to build on the side of a very brain-draining full-time job, so in the end I was doing it 7 days a week. After suffering a stroke I know I put too much in and as the status quo changed the hand I was dealt meant I was luckily able to pursue this full-time, but I have had to stay true to the fact it's a hobby before it's a business. Don't kid yourself that it's going to outweigh a well-paid full-time job and you will be happy with what you do. When the time comes I will be expanding my business but in a very different way, as I know the arcade side of it is only so profitable.

From the research I've done we're now the most prolific builder of these type of machines in the UK in terms of sales and due to my fundamental goal, possibly the cheapest 'new builders' in the country and certainly the cheapest custom builders in Europe.

Give it a go, kid - I think you can do it if you really want it!

 

[DaveMMR]

It's a ludicrous law though, as it also technically outlaws DVD burners and VCR's. 

I'm not schooled on the law but I would think DVD Burners and VCR's are okay because, out of the box, most of them are designed to hinder the duplication of copyrighted materials (e.g. Macrovision, etc.).  It's the 3rd party software that disables the copy protection that would be illegal, but it's usually not bundled with off-the-shelve burners.   That's pure speculation and educated guessing, mind you.

Back on topic:  I too was offered money for my cabinet.... to the tune of $5000.  But the guy who offered is moronic when drunk and a bit stupid when sober so I think it wasn't all too legit.  I asked to see the money up front.  He never asked again. 

But you know what, if someone asked me to build them one, I probably would.  I'd just ask for a deposit to cover the cost of materials and I would let them know (probably get it in writing) that in no uncertain terms is there any guarantee or warranty and that I am not tech support.   (Of course - if it were a friend, I'd still help them anyhow).  At the end of the day though, my stringent prerequisites would probably drive people away.  And they'd still call me for help constantly anyway...

As for the ROMs... I'd probably leave them off (unless I was doing the cab for a personal friend).  It is illegal, disrespectful to MAME Devs and brings unwanted negative attention to the project.  Plus who needs the problems of people who never used MAME calling you every five seconds because they can't remap the fire button in XYZ.

For the people who can do it (Turnarcades), I salute you.  But it's definitely not a business for everyone.

[Thenasty]

Was thinking about buying old working cabs, converting them to mame cabs and reselling them.

Is there any kind of market for this thats profitable or is the market already filled with do it yourselfers?

Maybe you should wait till DF goes to the Bighouse. He may come after you selling (like he did on e-bay). 

[TPB]

For some people, the 48 in 1s are a better seller because buyers don't want "some old PC". They feel its a hack and they're not getting their money's worth. But a machine with a "proper" new circuit board, they feel is a good value.

Agreed.

That's the consumer mindset.  If they're paying for a "turnkey" setup, they don't want to fiddle with some old PC under the cover.

Those who wants something more advanced, are more inclined to dabble themselves and build their own machine.

If you get into this business, the 48-in-1 and xxxx-in-1 boards will be more marketable, and less hassle for you to assemble and configure.

As everyone's aware, the xxxx-in-1 boards are modified PC's that have been wired to a JAMMA interface.  But its part of an integrated, standardised system (well, they're all from the same factory in China !!), so it remains more marketable than an old PC hidden inside a MAME cabinet.  The xxxx-in-1's are often reported as being sluggish, with underpowered Celeron processors, but the purchaser often doesn't consider those things.

[boxman]

Quite often I have a look for mamed cabinets on ebay. If you go to advanced search you can choose to see completed listings and see what sells and what doesn't. Most of the time the cabinets don't sell, sometimes they sell really cheap and a few times I have seen truly awful cabinets sell for a high price. I saw a pretty bad one sell on there for over £400 a few weeks ago, god knows how they managed to sell that thing.

I suppose it's worth a shot if you don't take it too seriously, but I imagine it will be completely unpredictable. One thing to note is that the general public have no idea about emulation, so you would have to make sure all the roms on the machine run perfectly (if you dared to sell with the roms) otherwise I can see some customers flipping out because tekken 3 runs like crap.