Push/ Pull Spinners

[Visitor Q]

Tim,

Apache looks like it mounts pretty high up, do you like that? Like it does not look to be as low profile as the TT.

[Tim N.]

You can adjust it... I actually like it where it is at (I adjusted it a little higher).... I have a bit larger hand, so my fingers are very comfortable getting underneath the knob without rubbing against the CP... It is versatile in it's mounts as it is adjustable to accomodate different wood thickness and/or metal thickness. It does come with all the hardware for both styles of mounting too..... I imagine the GGG model has that mounting plate to keep the height relatively similar regardless of material as well.... It is a different mounting structure all together...(just basing this on Randy's pics /comments).. I believe if you have a metal CP, for the GGG, you would remove the mounting plate and mount directly through the metal panel as the metal panel would then become your mounting plate... Again two different styles all together achieving the same result (in relative terms)....

[CheffoJeffo]

Also, I understand why the regulars on this board might get annoyed when someone asks a question on the main page that has already been asked a million times... but way too often the initial response to any question on here is a snarky reply linking the search function.  Even when (such is the case with this thread) the OP is asking a unique question.  I've kept my eye on the spinner threads, and I know that there's never been an in-depth comparision between the two push/pull spinners on the market, so this thread could definitely offer something new to the database.

I say ask what you need.  I have tried to use the search function a lot to answerer questions and find it usefulness limited.  From my experience it comes up with about 80% non relevant stuff for your search.  People always say read the WIKI.  Well that only helps if it is up to date.  When you looking at something that is 3 or 4 years old I am suspect of its usefulness.  This is especially true of software that may have 3 or 4 newer versions than what is being talked about in the WIKI.   

All of that is fair enough.

Nobody says don't ask questions, only that people do some research first. There is a ton of information here and, while not all of it will always be relevant to your specific question, some of it is. Some of the info will be out of date.

If you find info in the wiki that is out of date, then either update it (that's what it is there for) or at the very least post to that effect on the wiki board so that somebody else can update it. It's disconcerting that folks expect others to take time out to answer their questions, but don't take the time to update the wiki or post reviews once they install the item that they are asking about (not pointing any fingers, just making a general observation).

For my part, if I see the same question asked for the eleventieth time and don't feel like answering, I usually skip the thread. If I feel like answering, I do. I presume others do the same thing. We were all noobs once, so we do understand that it can be overwhelming and confusing. But, it does get frustrating to see the same questions asked again and again by people who failed to do even a basic search. The continual "What is the best 4-Way" and "Trackball works in Windows, but not in MAME" threads grate on people, as do the folks who bump their own threads every 2 hours because people haven't answered their question yet.

As for the search, it isn't perfect, but it isn't that bad and there is always Google, just add site:arcadecontrols.com to your search.

 

[Visitor Q]

You can adjust it... I actually like it where it is at (I adjusted it a little higher).... I have a bit larger hand, so my fingers are very comfortable getting underneath the knob without rubbing against the CP... It is versatile in it's mounts as it is adjustable to accomodate different wood thickness and/or metal thickness. It does come with all the hardware for both styles of mounting too..... I imagine the GGG model has that mounting plate to keep the height relatively similar regardless of material as well.... It is a different mounting structure all together...(just basing this on Randy's pics /comments).. I believe if you have a metal CP, for the GGG, you would remove the mounting plate and mount directly through the metal panel as the metal panel would then become your mounting plate... Again two different styles all together achieving the same result (in relative terms)....

Ahhhh yes, you are right. I do recall seeing that in the review.

Thanks.

[RandyT]

I'll try to address as much of this as I can without getting too wordy.  Not trying to be curt, just no time for a lot of detail at the moment.

Anyone who thinks that resolution in a spinner doesn't matter, either A) has never compared the two side-by-side,  B) never played a game where it matters, C) has a "horse in the race" or D) is not very discriminating about their gameplay.   That's all I'll say on that topic, as it has been hashed out plenty of times before this.

When it comes to build quality, bigger / heavier doesn't necessarily mean "better".

Anyone who wants a DOT spinner knob just needs to ask.  They will get one at the same price as the TokenTop.  I'm happy to offer them separately.

The TTHL mounts on metal the same as wood, but you can remove the plate if you prefer to do it that way. 

The knob on the TTHL has about 1/4" of adjustment so you can raise or lower it to feel better for you if the default position isn't to your liking.

The TTHL does not "scratch" against the switch contacts when turning.  It feels the same pushed, pulled or static.

Something that all should consider when soliciting opinions or looking at 3rd party reviews is that the individual doing the reviews may or may not have had access to other devices in order to compare them, and may have a totally different set of criterion used to judge them than you might.  Only one opinion really counts in cases like these, and that is yours.



RandyT

[Visitor Q]

Randy,

Thank you very much for your reply and insight on this matter. I have also posted a question in this thread here:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=74483.80

Please take the time to reply when time permits.

I am very interested in your products and have already committed myself to buy a number of them.

[BobA]

I have an Apache spinner and it is built like a tank and performs well.  I have not had any experience with Randy's new spinner but I am sure it is excellent as are all of his products.   Make your choice based on available panel space.

[apachecontrols]

Hi Visitor Q,

Here are some things to consider.

Out-of-the-box functionality comes standard with the Blackhawk. This means no customizations required (aka sensitivity tweaks) in Mame for nearly all spinner games.

High quality precision machined aluminum knobs (replica DOT) in choice of 4 different colors.

Push/Pull is adjustable to fine-tune switch activation for optimal play.

Professionally manufactured Stainless Steel and Aluminum Construction, the Blackhawk is built to last!

Have an old spinner and would like to trade-up to the Blackhawk? Check out the extended trade program to get $50 back on a purchase!
 
  http://www.apachecontrols.com/tradeup.html

Full product specifications published for all to see. This certainly comes in handy when trying to decide which product best fits the need. Not all suppliers are this generous, yet we feel this is important to help our customers make informed decisions!

  http://www.apachecontrols.com/manuals/ApacheControlsBlackhawk.pdf
  http://www.apachecontrols.com/blackhawkpictures.html

Countless satisfied customers with installations throughout the US, Canada, UK, Italy, etc.

Listen to what they have to say...

  The delivery was quick, the item was excellently packed and it worked Straight out of the box
  The build quality is second to none, and very robust
  It is weighted well allowing for a firm grip
  The spinner Action is very smooth and precise
  It is an ideal spinner for inclusion In any control panel
  I love the spinner!
  Thanks for such a great product!

All items listed on the website are stock, and typically ship 1-2 business days from the time an order is placed. No waiting here!

100% customer satisfaction guarantee. In the 2+ years we've been in business, not a single customer return.

It is nice to have choices as a consumer.

 

  David


Apache Controls, LLC
P.O. Box 108
Honeoye Falls NY 14472-0108 (USA)
 
ONLINE: www.apachecontrols.com
EMAIL: support@apachecontrols.com

[Visitor Q]

David,

Thank you for your reply.

Would you care to comment on the grinding or rubbing some people have complained about?

[apachecontrols]

Hi Visitor Q,

By design, the microswithes do make contact with the spindle top and botton on push and pull, so naturally any slight contact will continue if a player turns the knob at the same time when pushing or pulling.

Most game play situations do not require a simultaneous push/pull and spin action, so this really isn't an issue. In those cases where this is done, any slight noise produced is not really noticeable given the fact the spinner is mounted within an enclosed control panel. It certainly does not inhibit game play under these conditions.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

  David

Apache Controls, LLC
Honeoye Falls, NY (USA)

ONLINE: www.apachecontrols.com
EMAIL: support@apachecontrols.com

[erictrumpet]

I'll chime in with my opinion on this rubbing noise issue:
I find it physically impossible to push/pull AND spin simultaneously... I literally need to grasp the knob with one hand and pull (or push) it, then with the other hand turn it - that's the only way I can make that rubbing noise.
By the time Kevin Steele wrote his Retroblast review of the Apache, I had already been enjoying mine for a couple of weeks (I was an early adopter ) and I had no idea what he was talking about until I tried to force it, in the way I just described. David at Apache in his post above is being generous when he says it is not an issue "in most gameplay situations" - the truth is, it is NEVER an issue.
I think Kevin only mentioned this "flaw" in his review because there is virtually nothing negative to say about the Blackhawk otherwise.

Randy clings to the resolution issue because it is the only thing that is unique to his unit, but the arguable benefits, scientifically quantifiable or not, simply do not outweigh the other much more important benefits of a solidly built "lifetime" piece of arcade hardware. (Personal opinion of course.)

I will also address one other issue that has come up - the matter of footprint - the Apache chassis is about 3 inches square. That means the chassis extends beyond the footprint of the knob by about an inch in any direction. Unless you are planning to mount a joystick or button within one inch of your spinner knob, you will encounter no difficulties whatsoever with the size of this piece of gear. It is no larger than a typical joystick under the panel.

Also, a lot of people seem to think spinners that mount in button holes are the cat's pajamas. Is it really that much more difficult to drill a 1/4-inch hole with a regular drill bit for a traditional spinner shaft than to drill a full-sized button hole with your forstner bit or hole saw? I'd wager that the former is actually easier than the latter. But I guess it's a wash. It certainly isn't a reason to buy one spinner over another, in my opinion.

And I see in Dave's post above about a $50 spinner trade-in! He wasn't offering that when I ordered mine. I might trade in my old Oscar Vortex (which has a push-kit, but no pull capability) and get a second Blackhawk - I have both spinners on my panel and I use the push button all the time, it would be nice for both of my spinners to have the push AND the pull. They work good as "hidden" admin buttons in non-spinner games, for example. And I can drop the second Blackhawk right into the existing 1/4-inch hole where my Vortex is currently mounted...

By the way although I currently have only one Blackhawk but two spinners, I have two Apache DoT knobs. These knobs are AWESOME. Okay sorry I am starting to sound like a paid commercial advertisement for Apache... I just happen to really love this spinner...

Eric.

[Visitor Q]

I certainly appreciate your opinion and taking the time to write all that. I think you are right, either one seems to be about the same as the other. It does not really seem like either would be a bad purchase but there are a few key issues here that I am seeing.

I respect the fact that David has addressed all my concerns here even the negative ones.

If RetroBlast is indeed a trusted site, their review has spelled it out clearly for me; the Apache is the spinner to beat!

Unfortunately I have search and can not find any reviews on the TurboTwist Push/ Pull and yes, I have looked… Infact I don’t even think anyone has chimed in here to say that they even own one as of yet.

What does worry me is that I have asked Randy a simple question about 3 times on this site as well as sending him and email, no reply. I understand that he is busy, we all are but I cannot even place any order with him until he answers my question. The worst thing about it is he has been on here several times since I have asked him to answer my question and seems to avoid it all together. 

To me, customer service goes along way and that is not to say anything bad about either company as I have yet to deal with them directly with them and their product other than these few questions.

[RandyT]

Randy clings to the resolution issue because it is the only thing that is unique to his unit, but the arguable benefits, scientifically quantifiable or not, simply do not outweigh the other much more important benefits of a solidly built "lifetime" piece of arcade hardware. (Personal opinion of course.)

From my post above, Eric seems to fit into about 3 of those lettered items.  Personal opinion, of course   There's a reason why Ultimarc followed our lead on the resolution thing.  And, Eric, as you obviously don't own both, can you offer an explanation as to how it is that you feel qualified to comment on the construction or durability of the TTHL?

Unfortunately I have search and can not find any reviews on the TurboTwist Push/ Pull and yes, I have looked… Infact I don’t even think anyone has chimed in here to say that they even own one as of yet.

What does worry me is that I have asked Randy a simple question about 3 times on this site as well as sending him and email, no reply. I understand that he is busy, we all are but I cannot even place any order with him until he answers my question. The worst thing about it is he has been on here several times since I have asked him to answer my question and seems to avoid it all together. 

To me, customer service goes along way and that is not to say anything bad about either company as I have yet to deal with them directly with them and their product other than these few questions.

Here's one you may have missed.  It's translated, but you should be able to figure out what's going on.  Since this guy posted, I have been having difficulty keeping up with the orders for them.  I guess I should send him some chocolates or something. 

Your question was a very general one that looked as though it was answered several times over in this thread, and I opted to post here so that others would also see my reply.  But to be quite honest, folks who come to me with a question like "why should I buy your product instead of X" have, almost always, already made up their minds and it results in nothing more than a big waste of my time.  Time that is needed for filling orders, supporting current customers, purchasing inventory, R&D, etc...  To be quite honest, you aren't doing yourself any favors by asking the vendor a question like this.  All you are likely to get is a "hard sell" aimed at getting another piece off of his shelf.  Take the time to do the research, understand what is being talked about, and to a lesser extent, read what people have to say about the items in question.  Keep in mind that most people absolutely love the thing that they happen to own at the time and very few ever do objective comparisons.  But regardless of this fact, there is usually a good amount of real info in there that you can consider when making your purchase.  It should just be filtered by the overall knowledge you have gained from all of your sources.

Good luck and I hope you end up choosing the unit that is the right one for your needs.

RandyT

[u_rebelscum]

I'll chime in with my opinion on this rubbing noise issue:
I find it physically impossible to push/pull AND spin simultaneously... I literally need to grasp the knob with one hand and pull (or push) it, then with the other hand turn it...

Is this a fault of the spinner or the operator?  I ask because Forgotten Worlds requires spin while pressed, and FW is the major reason I'd get a push or push/pull spinner.  I wouldn't care about sound, but spinning while pressed is a requirement for me.

Sorry, but I'm going to 
OP, IMO two separate reviews, each one individual product, are usually more a contest of better writing than of the actual products.  IMO, one review on both the products shows a much better comparison than half a dozen on one and six on the other.  However, one review on both still can be too biased or look at different features than what matters to me, for myself to take at face value.  And IMO all the reviews in the world isn't as good as personal hands on.  These are my opinion for all reviews I look at, be it a spinner or five figure new car.

In the past, I've loved stuff others hated, prefer one over another while others are the reverse, and gotten stuff I didn't like based on others preferences.

Because of all the above, I have gotten very reluctant to recommend a product I like or even love over an other if I don't have that other product.  I could have made a great choice, but I have no way to say the other wasn't a better choice.

Back to a comparison: I have a TT2 and an Oscar Push/Pull Tron remake spinner (think high quality ATT pre-Apache push/pull), plus about half a dozen other spinners (but not the TT-HL nor Apache).  The TT2 is great for arkanoid due to the high res, the Oscar Push/Pull excellent for FW but is not up to snuff for arkanoid for me.  From what I have, I'd deduce the Apache is not good enough for me to play arkanoid also, but I don't know how well either will do with FW (although it sounds like the Apache won't work for that from what eric said).

Not that I'm saying don't get Apache; it sounds like a great product for most people.  I'm saying:
Rank the games that matter to you,
rank the features that matter to you, and
then make your decision based on your values, not on how loud the different fans/sellers hype/dis one product vs the other.

Okay off my soap box....

[erictrumpet]

Rebelscum I've played Forgotten Worlds and I don't see how it works any differently than, say, Discs of Tron with regard to pushing/pulling while simultaneously turning the wheel. Like DoT, you push or pull it - like a button - a quick bump down, or tug up - you don't push/pull and HOLD, and then while holding the "button," also turn (which as I said above is not physically possible as far as I can tell). Now, do you hit/tug the push/pull when the spinner is in motion? Sure, but this is only a fraction of a second - and creates no rubbing noise. Only sustained pushing/pulling with simultaneous turning of the knob (an awkward two-handed maneuver) does it. Pardon my lack of familiarity with Forgotten Worlds - I play it, but it's not a personal favorite - perhaps I am just not playing the game right!
Also - I agree completely on reviews and opinions being just that. Personal experience and subjective conclusions. But that's what this board is all about - sharing personal opinions to help people make an informed choice. For my money the Apache has been great. As they say, your mileage may vary - but I doubt it would vary much! It's a great product (as are many products out there)!

Eric.

[u_rebelscum]

Rebelscum I've played Forgotten Worlds and I don't see how it works any differently than, say, Discs of Tron with regard to pushing/pulling while simultaneously turning the wheel. Like DoT, you push or pull it - like a button - a quick bump down, or tug up - you don't push/pull and HOLD, and then while holding the "button," also turn (which as I said above is not physically possible as far as I can tell)....

FW needs to press and hold and turn.  When not pressed, the satellite spins around you as well as change direction shooting.  When pressed, the satellite says where it is relative to you, but still changes direction it's shooting.  Sure, much of the time you want the satellite in front of you (the same dirrection you're shooting.  However there are times you want the satellite next to you or behind you.  There are times you want the satellite to stay on the left or right (screen side-wise) of you while changing direction you shot.  Sometimes the satellite gets out of line when you want it directly in front of you, so you need to adjust it back in the heat of battle. 
(Just to clearify: "front" = direction you're shooting, "side" = side of direction shooting, "left" = satellite on left side of the screen compared to you no matter which direction you're shooting, etc)

Example: look up FW at MAWs and look at the CT: in game picture.  The satellite is to right of the character, but they are shooting diagonally up.

I repeat, FW needs to be able to hold and turn, and press (and then hold) while already turning, and release while turning.  Needs, needs, needs.   (Of course IMO )

The original controller was only push, not push/pull, though.

(If people can't tell, FW was one of my favorite games. )

[RandyT]

Only sustained pushing/pulling with simultaneous turning of the knob (an awkward two-handed maneuver) does it.

I just want to clarify something additionally.  I can't speak for other controls, but the TTHL does not require some "awkward two-handed maneuver" in order to push or pull and turn at the same time.  It's a precise and natural motion that is easy to perform.  I'd have had it no other way.

RandyT

[erictrumpet]

LOL

[Ummon]

I'd think an up/down spinner that didn't spin while being pushed or pulled would be kinda clunky, in a way perhaps similar to a 4-way stick that has to center before going a direction adjacent to the current direction pressed.

Also, having a rudimentary grasp of how controls work and why is very helpful in understanding how a product works and how it will work for you.

[shmokes]

Well . . . both spinners in question spin just fine while pushed or pulled.  One just does it silently, while the other generates what I gather is a fairly innocuous noise while it spins.

[TPB]

Well . . . both spinners in question spin just fine while pushed or pulled.  One just does it silently, while the other generates what I gather is a fairly innocuous noise while it spins.

A "fairly innocuous noise" that's caused by friction.

Mind you, the friction shouldn't effect the gameplay.

The friction would be a problem IF it occurred when the spinner was being spun freely.  Fortunately for the Apache, this doesn't happen.

You can't "free spin" a spinner while simultaneously pushing or pulling it.  You can only turn it precisely, which is in effect using it as a dial or paddle, rather than a spinner.

[TPB]

sustained pushing/pulling with simultaneous turning of the knob (an awkward two-handed maneuver)

I can't picture why two hands would be required for ANY spinner operation.

Surely you should be able to push or pull the knob, while turning it, all with the same hand.  The Apache might generate some friction while doing this motion, but does it generate so much resistance that two hands are required ?

If this is the case, then the TT-HL appears to be the push-pull spinner of choice, and that's without even considering its higher resolution.

[Visitor Q]

Higher resolution seems like a wash to me since the review on the Apache stated that all the games played fine with no adjustments.

[RandyT]

Higher resolution seems like a wash to me...

There have been at least a couple of members here telling you just the opposite.  Again, "fine" is in the eye of the beholder.  If you happen to be an individual who is less demanding of accuracy, authenticity and playability, or are not interested in the analog potentiometer and/or high-resolution spinner controlled games (and this includes the driving variety) then you should be "fine" with a low-res spinner.

But there's definitely no "wash" here.  The difference is very real and quantifiable.  It affects gameplay and how severely, if at all, depends completely on the game being played.

RandyT

[erictrumpet]

You can't "free spin" a spinner while simultaneously pushing or pulling it.  You can only turn it precisely, which is in effect using it as a dial or paddle, rather than a spinner.

This is what I meant when I said it takes two hands to do it. I guess my point was that pushing and turning, or pulling and turning, of course you can do that, but why would you want/need to? (Apparently to play Forgotten Worlds, I didn't know that till now. By the way I've been enjoying that game with my Apache since learning about this... ) So my point was just that free spinning with a simultaneous push or pull makes little sense.

I should be clearer from now on. I'd have it no other way.

Eric.

[Visitor Q]

Higher resolution seems like a wash to me...

There have been at least a couple of members here telling you just the opposite.  Again, "fine" is in the eye of the beholder.  If you happen to be an individual who is less demanding of accuracy, authenticity and playability, or are not interested in the analog potentiometer and/or high-resolution spinner controlled games (and this includes the driving variety) then you should be "fine" with a low-res spinner.

But there's definitely no "wash" here.  The difference is very real and quantifiable.  It affects gameplay and how severely, if at all, depends completely on the game being played.

RandyT

Most of those people don't own both spinners so that can't even compare them in that way. I am just going off of what I read about the Apache, that it works perfect out of the box with no configuring in Mame.

[RandyT]

Most of those people don't own both spinners so that can't even compare them in that way. I am just going off of what I read about the Apache, that it works perfect out of the box with no configuring in Mame.

I understand that fact quite well.  But I think you need to understand that the statement "works perfect out of the box" is one that is, at best, extremely misleading.  While it may be true for a hand full of games, there are far too many different controls, different configurations and different decoding schemes for that to even be possible.  Remember, you are relying on the knowledge of a reviewer in cases like these, and you have no way of knowing the extent of that knowledge.  He could be less knowledgeable than you.

RandyT

[Visitor Q]

Most of those people don't own both spinners so that can't even compare them in that way. I am just going off of what I read about the Apache, that it works perfect out of the box with no configuring in Mame.

He could be less knowledgeable than you.

RandyT

 

Well that is doubtful!

I am just going on the fact that where I read this was Retro Blast which is a respectable site from what I am told by the users of this forum.

[Bender]

Randy,

You make Fantastic products that are of great benefit to the community
They are solid, well built ,well designed and innovative


let them speak for themselves
they'll do a far better job

[RandyT]

let them speak for themselves
they'll do a far better job

Thank you for the compliments, but I'm not sure I understand this statement.  I'm not pushing a product here, only trying to make sure that the benefits of high resolution in a spinner are understood by potential spinner buyers.  It's clear from this discussion, that this is still something that needs to be talked about, regardless of how often or in depth it has been discussed in the past.

Maybe I need a different account here so everyone doesn't automatically assume I'm pushing a product when I try to share knowledge on a subject. 

RandyT

[Visitor Q]

Randy,

You make Fantastic products that are of great benefit to the community
They are solid, well built ,well designed and innovative


let them speak for themselves
they'll do a far better job

+1

You have selective hearing Randy. I have asked you direct questions in other threads that you have choose to ignore. I am going to be spending hundreds of dollars on your products, is it too much to ask for a little bit more personable service?

Sorry… Just being honest about how I feel here.

[RandyT]

You have selective hearing Randy. I have asked you direct questions in other threads that you have choose to ignore. I am going to be spending hundreds of dollars on your products, is it too much to ask for a little bit more personable service?

Some things belong in email and not public forums.  Send me an email (it'll help to identify yourself in it) and I'll be happy to answer your questions.

RandyT

[Visitor Q]

You have selective hearing Randy. I have asked you direct questions in other threads that you have choose to ignore. I am going to be spending hundreds of dollars on your products, is it too much to ask for a little bit more personable service?

Some things belong in email and not public forums.  Send me an email (it'll help to identify yourself in it) and I'll be happy to answer your questions.

RandyT

Thats fine and I am not looking to cause trouble here or with you so please don't consider this a personal attack, it has nothing to do with anything of the such. I will be more than happy to email, infact I will do so right now.

Thank You.

[TPB]

+1

I don't always agree with Randy's comments, but I do in this thread.

The info. he has provided is measured, factual, and is solely intended to aid Visitor Q's purchase decision, nothing more.

Geez, a spinner thread would be pretty dull without a contribution from the vendors, wouldn't it ?   

I appreciate their contribution to the forum.

Apache Controls have "said their piece" in this thread, so why bag Randy when he does the same ?

[shmokes]

let them speak for themselves
they'll do a far better job

. . . I'm not sure I understand this statement. 

Yet it is a statement you see on a pretty regular basis, even from many of your happy customers who wouldn't hesitate to do business with you a thousand times over.  Take it on faith if you must, but it's good advice.  There's a condescending, dismissive, tactless quality to the way you converse.  I have seen your store.  You have a bunch of REALLY amazing-looking products that you invented.  You are obviously incredibly talented.  But you can't be good at everything.  You need a public face.  But, whatever . . . I'm over it.   

[erictrumpet]

Yet it is a statement you see on a pretty regular basis, even from many of your happy customers who wouldn't hesitate to do business with you a thousand times over.  Take it on faith if you must, but it's good advice.  There's a condescending, dismissive, tactless quality to the way you converse.  I have seen your store.  You have a bunch of REALLY amazing-looking products that you invented.  You are obviously incredibly talented.  But you can't be good at everything.  You need a public face.  But, whatever . . . I'm over it.   

I always wonder why whenever anyone posts a comment about Randy's obnoxious manner of corresponding with people on these boards, they feel compelled to qualify their criticism with gushing statements about how awesome GGG is. Guys, there are alternatives to everything. Between Ultimarc, Apache, and good old-fashioned DIY homebrew ingenuity, you can have everything you ever wanted in your cab without patronizing a business whose owner deals with customers in a way you may not like. I personally do not like how Randy talks to people on these boards. So, I don't buy his stuff. Plain and simple. And I lack nothing - not controls, not lighting, not interfaces, NOTHING. And although it matters not to me, if high-res spinners is your thing, Ultimarc's got you covered there too.

Eric.

 

[shmokes]

Because this is a community and a discussion forum.  I'm not qualifying my statement, I'm giving him advice.  And I'm trying to impress on him that my bad opinion has nothing to do with the quality of his products (I've never actually used a single one).  It seems crazy to invent all these great products and then have people refuse to buy them, not because they suck, but because the inventor sucks as public relations.  But that is happening.  But, whatever . . . I'm over it.   

[RandyT]

I always wonder why whenever anyone posts a comment about Randy's obnoxious manner of corresponding with people on these boards, they feel compelled to qualify their criticism with gushing statements about how awesome GGG is. Guys, there are alternatives to everything. Between Ultimarc, Apache, and good old-fashioned DIY homebrew ingenuity, you can have everything you ever wanted in your cab without patronizing a business whose owner deals with customers in a way you may not like. I personally do not like how Randy talks to people on these boards. So, I don't buy his stuff. Plain and simple. And I lack nothing - not controls, not lighting, not interfaces, NOTHING. And although it matters not to me, if high-res spinners is your thing, Ultimarc's got you covered there too.

Eric, 

You are not, nor will you obviously ever be a customer of GGG.  So, once again, you feel you are qualified to comment on something that you have not experienced.  My customers are treated quite well, thank you,  and often are given the opportunity to purchase items that are made specifically for them in order to get them out of a tight spot.  In the many years I have been a contributing member here, I have seen numerous occasions where other vendors, and reviewers, have steered folks in bad directions, either through ignorance or quite possibly something worse.  And I have done my best to help folks, regardless of where their purchases were made.

Again, I am a long standing member here, not just a "vendor".   As such, I will offer an opinion on you, Eric, as you see fit to comment on me.  There are a lot of other much more informed voices on this board than yours.  You are often incorrect with your observations, and become vindictive when your errors are pointed out as such.  I personally do not like how your comments mislead folks into a situation that might possibly disappoint or cause harm to their wallets.  So I put little stock in what you have to say, and recommend that others do the same.  There are folks here with much more useful input like Robin (uRebel), Derrick Rennaud, Kremmit, or any number of other folks who have proven themselves to have the technical ability and desire to actually understand how these things work and why.  This forum is about arcade controls, and your bashing here just ruins it for everyone.

And shmokes, please do get over it  .  I don't intend to be a phony in order to make sales.  I prefer that my customers see and moreover understand the value of what GGG offers and are not "slicked" into buying something that won't do what they expect it to.

RandyT




*edit*  Had to put a smiley in there for shmokes.  We see eye to eye on too many things and I don't want him to think that I dislike him. But he's still a pain in my kiester

[Ummon]

Hey, it's autumn, the leaves are falling.

[Visitor Q]

All I know is this is all a big investment for me. I am just trying to gather as much info. as I can on all this. It is a lot to take in and a lot to consider. I for one am sorry that I may ask questions here that have already been covered time and time again but yes, I am a newbie. Trust me when I say I have used the search function of this site and have spent countless hours reading through posts but sometimes I am just looking for a fresh opinion. I do appreciate everyone who has replied to my posts, both vendors and members. I have even had the opportunity to speak to some of the members here personally one the phone and they have been nothing but helpful. Hell I spoke to DeLuSioNal29 for close to 3 hours on the phone the other night!!!

I plan on giving back here as much as I can as soon as I learn the ropes.

I little off topic here but I just wanted to say it.