LCD Topgun II on sale now.

[ChicagoDave]

I noticed that they are now released.  I ordered 2 from PlayAsia today.  Hopefully they work great.

[ddrtist]

Bah!! And I just ordered a Topgun like a week ago from them.  I *hope* that this one works as well as the Topgun II.  Does anyone know what the big revision was?

[wbassett]

What is the price with shipping, same as before?  I'll head over to the PlayAsia site and check too...

[ChicagoDave]

What is the price with shipping, same as before?  I'll head over to the PlayAsia site and check too...

$114.20 total for two guns.

[ddrtist]

Yup.  The per-unit price is something like $13 more.  I still don't understand what the big difference is.    I am just happy to be receiving my topgun I soon!  Hooray for Time Crisis and Revolution X!!!

[thatitalian]

Don't forget House of the Dead!

[deadsoulz]

What exactly is new / updated on the II?

[ChicagoDave]

What exactly is new / updated on the II?

From the FAQ on EMS's site:

  Q2) What is the different between EMS TopGun  II and EMS TopGun ?

A) Here are the differences:

   i) EMS TopGun II supports Vista (32bit) while EMS TopGun does not.

   ii) LED stands of EMS TopGun II and EMS TopGun are different, and not compatible with each other.

   iii) hardware calibration procedures of EMS TopGun II is different from that of EMS TopGun.

[wbassett]

For now I think I'll try the new drivers for the old gun and wait for feedback on these new guns.  I don't want to sound negative, but I feel like a 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me' scenario right now.

The gun is okay, but a lot of money for 'okay' in my opinion.  If the new guns fix all the problems that the original gun had/has then $115 isn't bad and is basically the price of a single gun setup from ActLabs but for two TopGuns.

I'd also like to see some sort of wireless sensor bar so if I do go this route as my final gun solution I don't have those nasty looking wires hanging down the front of my cab.

Once we start getting feedback, then I'll decide.  If feedback is good or sounds too good to be true, I'll still be a little cautious because when I bought my first gun the feedback I saw on the web made it sound like the ultimate solution and best thing ever.   If the feedback still has the same issues as the original gun, I think I'll pass and look for a different solution.  I just don't feel like shelling out $100 bucks or so and still have issues.  With the company's track record, I don't want to have to wait two years for any updates or fixes.  By then I'm sure we'll have other guns or options available.

What I'd like to see is an honest and unbiased review that includes the pros and cons of the new guns, specifically:

• Is Vista the only real update?
• What is different about the sensor bars and calibration proceedure?
• Has the distance required been improved?
• Has accuracy and tracking been improved?
• Is the documentation any better?
• How well do two guns work and has the 'sweet spot' issue been resolved? (The problem where the guns calibrate and work best in one position, but when playing with two players neither are able to stand in that spot at the same time)
• Most important, is it any easier to setup and install the drivers? i.e. It doesn't take a couple weeks to a month to get them working right...

I'm not slamming the gun, but I am a bit leery after my experience with the original gun. 

[BASS!]

For now I think I'll try the new drivers for the old gun and wait for feedback on these new guns.  I don't want to sound negative, but I feel like a 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me' scenario right now.

The gun is okay, but a lot of money for 'okay' in my opinion.  If the new guns fix all the problems that the original gun had/has then $115 isn't bad and is basically the price of a single gun setup from ActLabs but for two TopGuns.

I'd also like to see some sort of wireless sensor bar so if I do go this route as my final gun solution I don't have those nasty looking wires hanging down the front of my cab.

Once we start getting feedback, then I'll decide.  If feedback is good or sounds too good to be true, I'll still be a little cautious because when I bought my first gun the feedback I saw on the web made it sound like the ultimate solution and best thing ever.   If the feedback still has the same issues as the original gun, I think I'll pass and look for a different solution.  I just don't feel like shelling out $100 bucks or so and still have issues.  With the company's track record, I don't want to have to wait two years for any updates or fixes.  By then I'm sure we'll have other guns or options available.

What I'd like to see is an honest and unbiased review that includes the pros and cons of the new guns, specifically:

• Is Vista the only real update?
• What is different about the sensor bars and calibration proceedure?
• Has the distance required been improved?
• Has accuracy and tracking been improved?
• Is the documentation any better?
• How well do two guns work and has the 'sweet spot' issue been resolved? (The problem where the guns calibrate and work best in one position, but when playing with two players neither are able to stand in that spot at the same time)
• Most important, is it any easier to setup and install the drivers? i.e. It doesn't take a couple weeks to a month to get them working right...

I'm not slamming the gun, but I am a bit leery after my experience with the original gun. 

Yes, review needed. I bought 2 a couple months ago at the begining of my build with all the rest of my parts. I would love to know what differs and in what respect.

[ZeroPoint]

wbasset, I will try to answer some of your questions...

•   Is Vista the only real update?

HKEMS had to make a new firmware for the gun to make it work on Vista. Hopefully they polished the other "faults" in the firmware on the new gun.

•   What is different about the sensor bars and calibration procedure?

The difference in the led stands is that they use four spots instead of five. This is the reason you cannot use TopGun I and TopGun II in the same system. The calibration procedure is almost the same, except that you do not shoot the center of the screen.

•   Has the distance required been improved?

For what I have read I do not think so. The solution for this is to "rebuild" the led stand to better match your monitor size. I will try to make a guide for this if needed ? I have reduced the distance to about 28 inches by this method.

•   Has accuracy and tracking been improved?

Do not know. I have had no issue with the accuracy and tracking on the first TopGun and hopefully it will be equal or better.

Note: Remember that infrared light reflects just as much as visible light. If the infrared leds in the led stands reflects in a table or control panel, the gun may see double spots causing the pointer to jump up and down.

•   Is the documentation any better?

N/A for now.

•   How well do two guns work and has the 'sweet spot' issue been resolved? (The problem where the guns calibrate and work best in one position, but when playing with two players neither are able to stand in that spot at the same time)

The reason for this "sweet spot" issue is most likely that you do not have the leds in line with the monitor (if you see the monitor from the side). For example a cabinet with a glass mounted with a distance in front of the monitor and the leds mounted in or on this glass will cause this problem. Try to mount the leds or led stands as close as possible to the actual monitor surface (seen from the side).

•   Most important, is it any easier to setup and install the drivers? i.e. It doesn't take a couple weeks to a month to get them working right...

N/A for now.

I will try to answer other questions when I get the new TopGun II next week.

[TheShanMan]

ZeroPoint, really looking forward to your review. I am somewhat hopeful that these could be the guns I go with. I'm wondering about the "rebuilding the LED stand" thing. Is it just a matter of the factory optimizing the product for use with console games where you're sitting on a couch, a good distance from the TV? And by rebuilding it you're merely altering the optimal distance, as opposed to trying to get it to work at short range while in reality that is a sub-optimal design and therefore won't work as well?

If rebuilding it is fairly easy and doesn't result in a non-robust system, I could go for that. That also assumes I can get this to work by mounting on the monitor behind the bezel in such a way that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb (wires hidden, etc.). I think the answer to this question is that I can do that, but I'm not 100% positive so ultimately I'll need to be convinced of that before I jump in head first.

And I'm one of those who prefers wired guns because I don't want my kids walking off with them to play with as regular guns. So for me that's a plus, provided it's not too hard to cut the cable and rewire it to have a connector in the middle since I have swappable panels.

Sounds promising though!

[ZeroPoint]

Got my TopGun II today (actually a few of them). It is a little early for a review, but so far:

1. New Led stands: Four led spots instead of five. The one that earlier had three spots have two with one spot in the end removed.

2. Installation with the new drivers was very easy and worked right away. (Well, almost: Had some minor issues. The driver did not release the mouse cursor and the pointer was a little jaggy. These issues disappeared by reconnecting the gun and have not been an issue since.)

3. Calibration was a piece of cake. There is now five points to shoot instead of six. I did not even have to adjust the edges in the driver. Perfect !

4. Distance from screen: Using the original led stands on a 20" widescreen the distance required was about 40 inches. That was a little shorter than expected and worked the same with both horizontal and vertical mounted led stands. Note that on larger screen it is recommended to mount the led stands horizontally and larger screens will require more distance. It is also possible to modify the distance between the leds to optimize the distance required. To explain how I would need to make a drawing. I will try to do that sometime soon. It is really only to optimize the distance between the leds so they are in the field of view of the camera in relationship with the monitor size and corners.

5. The gun also works better now with regular gamepad drivers. There may be some uses for this. I do not know. Games like T2 used analog "gamepad" axis and with "AD stick sensitivity" set to 1% in Mame the cursor is very smooth. Anyone see the use for the TopGun as an analog gamepad, maybe in other games

Testing done on XP this time. I will try Vista later.

Really recommend this new version.  It may not be a giant step from the first version. More like a big step with Vista compability.

TheShanMan: You should go with these guns. It is a little early for a complete review, but it seems like many of the issues with the first version of this gun is gone. I will hopefully write a proper review and guide later if I find the time.

[TheShanMan]

Sounds great so far! Does calibration only need to happen when you first install the guns? What if you disconnect and reconnect the guns - do you need to re-calibrate then? With my swappable panels the guns won't be "permanently" connected (though obviously the LED bars would), so I can imagine it getting really annoying having to calibrate every time I drop in my lightgun panel.

[ZeroPoint]

Yes, the calibration is stored in the gun...

[TheShanMan]

Does that mean "it's stored in the gun (in non volatile ram) so you won't have to repeatedly re-calibrate"? Or "it's stored in the gun (in volatile ram) so you WILL have to repeatedly re-calibrate"? I'm guessing you mean the latter, but it's not entirely clear. Bummer if so. I guess that would also mean on every power up of the computer you'd have to re-calibrate too.

[fjl]

I just want to hear what everyone is wondering, that this new one is worth buying over the old one. Regardless of the Vista compability.

[Cananas]

Yes, the calibration is stored in the gun...

AFAIK from the LCD TopGun, the calibration values are saved in an ini file, not the gun.

[ZeroPoint]

TheShanMan: The calibration is stored permanently in the gun until you choose to recalibrate. You DO NOT have to calibrate every time you disconnect / reconnect the gun unless you alter the position of the led stands.

Cananas: Yes, there are additional "software" calibration values for fine tuning, but this has nothing to do with the "hardware" calibration.

Nothing to do with calibration, but: As any other usb device it is best to use the same usb port when you disconnect / reconnect.

Anyone tried the TopGun (II) with gamepad/joystick driver yet ?

[mikeveli20]

I've never used a TopGun before, but I had read with the first version that every time you restarted your computer, you had to reconnect the guns for them to work properly. Is this the same with the TopGun II, or was this even true about the first version?

Also, I have a few more questions about the EMS TopGun that I posted in another thread I started. Some of the questions have been answered in this thread (like distance away from screen), but if some of you who have experience with the EMS guns (ZeroPoint seems to really know his stuff) wouldn't mind checking out my other thread here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82841.0 that would be great. Thanks.

[ChicagoDave]

Just an update on this.   So far I have to say that I love the Topgun IIs.  They are much better and easier to setup the the original Topguns.  Everything just worked the first time, no fiddling required.  The HOTD games play great.

Also, the lockup at boot issue does not seem to happen with these guns.  Before with the old guns, I could not have them plugged in when trying to boot the computer.  Now I can have the guns plugged in and the PC boots fine.

[jholman76]

I really want to incorporate a topgun into my cabinet build, but does anyone have any info on the light bars? what size are they? I am in the process of building my cab now and I cant find any dimentions on PlayAsia's site. Also, how do they connect for power?

I'm guessing it works like a Wii controller and they are just IR's on the bars and the gun picks up their location...

too bad a wii remote cant be subbed

Thanks.

[TheShanMan]

That's great to hear Dave! I don't suppose you'd be willing to do a full review in the Reviews forum, addressing all the common concerns people have, like how far away you have to stand, how accurate it is, do 2 guns work together, quality of guns, etc.

[GreatLamer]

I request this review also, Dave. Please tell the few Pc games if you own it, works in dual mode or not in any way. (HOTD, Virtua Cops dual modes). Thanks in advance.

[ChicagoDave]

Like I stated before, the biggest benefit of the new guns was that they simply worked right out of the box after installing the new EMS driver.  With the old guns, it was an adventure simply getting them recognized, and then after getting them recognized, getting them to stay connected.  The new guns appear to be very stable.  I have only played a couple of games here and there, so I haven't been able to give a long term review as of yet.  I will try to give another update after I have a party and the guns get some longer play time.


I run the following Light Gun games:
 House of the Dead
 House of the Dead II
 House of the Dead III
 Virtua Cop II
 Mad Dog McCree

I have tested dual players on all of the HOD games and they work great.  Also, with the old Topguns, I never was able to get the off screen reload to work correctly.  I finally gave up and enabled "auto reload" in "The Troubleshooter".  With the new guns and driver, the off screen reload works fine.

I tried Virtual Cop II with a single player and it worked great.  I did not try multiple players yet.  I also tried Mad Dog McCree and that game also works great.

To me, the new guns feel more acurate.  I think that is because their seems to be less lag while aiming.  They seem to track much quicker.

As for the distance, I do not see any real difference.  I still need to stand about 5-6 feet away.  Note that I have my LED bars mounted vertically on the 27" TV in my cabinet.

Calibrating the new guns is slightly easier, with one less step.  The old guns required you to fire a shot to the center of the screen during calibratiion, while the new guns do not.

That is what I have for now.  I will try to spend some more time playing with them and post any updates as I find them.

[TheShanMan]

Thanks for the additional info, Dave. Sounds VERY good. I'm hoping by the time I'm ready to take the plunge on light guns, someone will have tried modifying the LED bars to work with around a 3 foot range, which is what I'm hoping for.

[GreatLamer]

Thanks for the quick review dear Dave. Keep the play on . I will order the new gun(s) far later (low money) :-(. I have no problem with the old EMS gun, too - with the new driver.

Is there any way to set the topgun to real mouse mode? Starsky n Hutch doesnt work on PC with the gun. Cow Hunter also doesnt work.

On the EMS download page, the subtitle has changed. Removed the only 32 bit XP/ 32 bit Vista text. That means the driver supports all OSes for all Topgun? 32/64/XP/Vista?

[ViciousXUSMC]

Reviving a semi old topic, but I know these officially support Vista x86 (32bit) but all my computers use x64.  Do we have world from anywhere if these work in Vista x64? 

[dkubarek]

The site says $39.99 per gun? Do you need anything else? Did the price go down? Also, anyone know what shipping to the states sets you back? thanks.

[ViciousXUSMC]

The site says $39.99 per gun? Do you need anything else? Did the price go down? Also, anyone know what shipping to the states sets you back? thanks.

Price on guns did go down, the gun is all you need, shipping to the states is VERY high, you can see it before you complete check out.  Thats why I am waiting for an answer for the x64 question because I need to order two gamecube adapters from there and may as well wait and get the guns now too to save on shipping.

[BASS!]

The EMS topguns do not work with any 64 bit os "yet" I actually have a really rudimentary beta driver that I would like to share with everyone, so that maybe someone can finish it. It was put out really sly in the ems forum for a user to test. The area where it seems to really lack is it has no fine tuning feature, so no matter what it will be somewhat inacurate. I say a ton of people get their hands on it, try it and go post in ems's forums and let them know that you want x64 support.

[ark_ader]

The topgun worked fine for me in vista.

Unfortunately Vista doesn't work for me, so its not a problem.

To be honest I have two guns in the closet.  I rarely play them, unless the guys come around. 

Too many wires, but plays well with the Xbox and widescreen.

The gun game idea gets old quickly. 

[dkubarek]

How much is shipping to the US, give or take? I tried filling out the "order form" but it just prompted some crappy mail service on my Mac. I didn't see anything about shipping costs on the site.