CP layout question(s)

[abzman2000]

    I am designing an "all-in-one" control panel for my new cab, and I would like to try to be able to play as many games as possible with the one cp (some exceptions) and I was wondering what some exotic cp layouts exist so I can try to accurately represent them on my panel.  what I mean is that ... well I mean something like this site ---> http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/underpass/24/arcadeplan01.htm but with odd physical layouts of buttons or placement of controls, like defender, it has only a few buttons but they are placed so that if I integrated that into my panel I would have the hyperspace button all alone, and not really able to be remapped to do something useful in other games, thereby adding to the clutter. 

    What about standard p1-p4 controls? I am familiar with the "street fighter" configuration, but what about the thumb button some games seem to have? Do only 1 player games have that, or is there a game where 2 players have thumb buttons and play simultaneously? Is there more than a 2x3 combination? How about a 2x4, or a 2x3 with a fourth button on the bottom row? The link I used seems to point to the answers about a lot of types of controls but not button configurations.  Any help is appreciated. 

games I MUST be able to play (incomplete):
galaga
metal slug 3
battlezone
tron
burgertime
Star Wars Trilogy
I could say discs of tron, but that's a dream, not a must (yet)

[Ginsu Victim]

Have you glanced at this thread?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=59359.0

[abzman2000]

I have and I am going through that thread getting ideas for color schemes and layouts but I thought I might ask about some obscure / infrequently used layouts here too. 

[protokatie]

How about a 2x4, or a 2x3 with a fourth button on the bottom row?

I dont know of any MAME games off the top of my head that used 8 buttons (gauntlet maybe?), from what I understand the 2x4 is mostly used to emulate console games... As per the 2x3 with another button on the bottom row; that is the Streetfighter 2 + NeoGeo layout. As such, that one should only be used if you intend to play both 6 button arcade fighters and 4 button neogeo games.

Edit: fixed 2x6 to be 2x3 for archival reasons.(Never even heard of a 2x6 button layout... :<)

[abzman2000]

are there any games that would require 4 sets of 2x3 and a thumb button? or just p1, and p2 would need the thumb button

[Kajoq]

90% of 4 player games only need 3 a max of 3 buttons, and a handful more require a 4th.

You dont need 6, 7, or 8 buttons for players 3 and 4 unless you're playing something on like PS1 or something.  As far as arcade games you'll only need a max of 4

[miles2912]

There is no complete cp design.  Hence the reason there are so many.  I can play all the games that you mention with my cp design.  A buddy wanted tron and I wanted battlezone.  Check out the link at the bottom. 

In the top right you can see the top fire next to the spinner for tron and then the top fire and the perfect 360 next to it work fine for battle zone.  I have to admit that battle zone looses a lot without the periscope. 

Miles

[Green Giant]

are there any games that would require 4 sets of 2x3 and a thumb button? or just p1, and p2 would need the thumb button

The fourth thumb button you are talking about is not a necessity at all.  It is there just for convenience.  The most buttons you will need is the standard street fighter layout.  That fourth button is for neo-geo games like metal slug.  Instead of using the bottom three and a random one on the second row, you can use that extra button for neo-geo games to get the real feel.

[Ginsu Victim]

That fourth button is for neo-geo games like metal slug.

Well, not games like Metal Slug. It only uses 3 buttons. King of Fighters, however, definitely need 4 buttons.

I understand the Capcom 6-button layout works, but Neo Geo fans don't get the right feel without the 4 in-a-row setup. (At least, I don't)

[abzman2000]

I see, does that mean if I wanted that neo-geo feel I would need a thumb button, but it would only benefit me on the p1, and p2 layouts if I built a 4-player cab?

[Ginsu Victim]

Seeing as there are no 4-player Neo Geo games, yeah, only P1 and P2 would need them.

[abzman2000]

aside from fighting games, and emulating consoles is there any other game that uses a 2x6 or more?

[miles2912]

The first step I took in designing a CP was to make a list of all the games I wanted to play.  After talking to a bunch of friends about their fav games I researched all their control layouts.  Some games - like Starwars and paper boy just ain't gonna happen  .  So armed with that knowledge (KLOV.com is your friend here) I set about designing the cp.  As far as I know the only games the use the '6 packs' are fighting games.  As far as console games go I bought some game pads that emulate and feel  better than any CP layout.   I just store them inside the coin door and grab them when we want to play.  It took me a few months to come up with what I like. 

Have fun

Miles

[abzman2000]

thanks for the tip, although I intend on either getting a star wars yoke or a replica for my next cab (a swappable panel cab for odd control schemes), I think I will do just what you did and take a poll so to speak of favorite games.  to emulate console games though I would rather buy/build usb/parallel port adapters for original controllers. 

[abzman2000]

while I do that here is a question more about the software.  I know all about restrictor plates (even tron's  ) but software wise could an analog joystick be substituted for a  49 way, or even a 2, 4, or 8 way? while I'm at it (mechanical feedback aside) could an ortical spinner be substituted for a rotary joystick, or a 360 degree wheel be substituted for a 270?

[abzman2000]

my preliminary control panel:



the two center sticks (p1, p2) are top fire for battlezone

the thumb buttons on p1, p2 are for neo geo

I may remove 2 buttons (leaving only 4) from the side sets of controls (p3, p4) if there are no 4 player 6 button games worth playing

the grey circles are spinners, ideally at least one push/pull spinner

the numbers on the joysticks indicate the number of ways they go (I may make changes to these like make the trigger sticks analog (ST Trilogy), or the p3, p4 sticks u360s, are there top fire u360s?)

no pinball buttons (clutter)

the white buttons are pause

the purple buttons to the upper right of the right spinner, and the upper left of the left spinner are stop/quit (and must both be depressed for them to do anything)

the other purple buttons are admin buttons (I will lessen the number of these as I learn more about how to navigate mame

I will use controller adapters for game controllers (nes, snes, genesis, saturn, etc... as I have plenty of (too many) controllers for different systems)

Ideally the trigger sticks are authentic tron sticks (with 2 topfire buttons for maximum compatibility), or at least tron handles on new shafts and mechanics

the trackball will be either a U-TRAK (lit) or a 4.5" atari one

the black buttons above the trackball are for mouse buttons, but if the situation arises, I want to be able to remap parts of the p1, and p2 control schemes to mirror these and to allow for leftys

I would also like all these things (minus spinners) to be lit by software controlled rgb leds so when certain controls are used for a certain game they are lit, and the other ones are dark. 

that means the button colors here will not match the final design

edit: each button layouts' set of red buttons (not the 4-way) should be removed (old pic)

[Ginsu Victim]

Wow, look at that panel. Got enough on it?

Only one thing I can think to say....

http://www.youtube.com/v/bPmVhyHBRAM&hl=en

[abzman2000]

wonderful movie

[Ginsu Victim]

I almost used the original Frankenstein, but my point was....FRANKENPANEL!

Do you need all that on one panel? You also launching space shuttles or something?

[Blanka]

How often do you play with four people?
I would say:
2 ultimarc 360's, for analog control (katamari damacy tank controls), 8-way, 4-way and 2-way in 1 stick
6 buttons each (it plays neo-geo too)
2 sets of start/coin buttons with shift function for esc, enter, quit etc.
1 spinner
1 trackball with 2 buttons (i like them under the ball for thumb use instead of above, but that is a matter of taste).

Done
Player 3 and 4 get a Bluetooth Wii controller like this:

[Ginsu Victim]

I may remove 2 buttons (leaving only 4) from the side sets of controls (p3, p4) if there are no 4 player 6 button games worth playing

There are no 6 button 4-player games.

are there top fire u360s?)

No.

no pinball buttons (clutter)

[abzman2000]

I intend this to be mainly for friends, like a group up to 6 people may so I wanted to leave 4 player support in, I also LOVE the way the tron stick feels and want one for my cp (I may design the cab around that stick) so I paired it with a spinner and I think that pair and the other one can be substituted for rotary joysticks.  I may be motivated to tack on 2 more spinners if my friends take a liking to warlords.  oh, and the buttons above the trackball are so I can use the mouse in windows one handed, I want this cab to be able to play half life, and starcraft. 

edit: I would think it would be unfair with out arcade controls, that is a nice controller though

[massive88]

I want this cab to be able to play half life, and starcraft. 

I was wondering why you had 9 buttons for players one and two.  It seems like overkill to me.  Honestly, the vast majority of the time, the 7 buttons for players one and two are overkill.

Even when playing PSX games, most games you would want to play at a cab dont require immediate access to every button on the controller.

I have Legacy Doom on my cab, which is hella fun (splitscreen deathmatch!), but trying to do true 3d games without a good analog control is a pain.  I guess you could play single player FPSes with the trackball, but even that shouldnt require you to have so many buttons for players 1 and 2, since you could use player 2's buttons for any non-fast-twitch buttons you could need.

[abzman2000]

sorry, I uploaded the wrong pic

fixed now

[massive88]

If this is an actual layout diagram, then I would say if the thumb button is meant for NeoGeo (not defender/stargate authenticity) I would make it have near similar spacing as the other buttons, it seems to be separated a good deal from the bottom row of 3.

[abzman2000]

more of an overview, I plan on adding detailed plans measured out to my hands after the overview is done; it is; and I agree with you, I plan on taking measurements from an actual neogeo layout for the placement of that button relative to the others

[fjl]

My cab will be traditional. Two joysticks and a set of 7 buttons for each plus a trackball and a spinner. The least amount of items, the less intimidating it is for a person to jump on it. Last thing I want to do is have to explain how everything works. I'm also adding the LEdWiz so only the controls/buttons needed for the current game being played will be lit. And the only admin buttons will be Pause and Exit Game. Keep it simple, that's my theory.

[abzman2000]

so only the controls/buttons needed for the current game being played will be lit

that is what I would like to do to alleviate the intimidation factor

[abzman2000]

could I get an analog joystick with the ability to transplant a tron handle onto it with trigger and two thumb buttons?

[abzman2000]

this post makes me think you could graft a tron handle (with trigger and 2 thumb buttons [compatibility with other games]) possibly with blacklight LEDs to be connected to an LEDwiz or something so it would only be lit in games it would be used.  Rather than using a barrel connector I could use a stereo plug, well I don't know the proper name but what I mean is a headphone jack.  I have seen ones with 4 connections (like the ipod video connector has video left right and ground)so if I could use the ground for the buttons and LEDs I could have 2 buttons and the LEDs, or just 3 buttons.  although I could forgo the connector and just run some 30 gauge wire through a hole in the side of the shaft like here.  Or maybe I could do this.  I could have a couple u360 tron sticks, a couple u360 rotary sticks ,and a couple normal ball top u360s. 

add 40 or so translucent buttons, a ton of rgb LEDs, and 2 brand new push-pull spinners...... and I would be out a bundle of money

that is why I am looking to get a lot of feedback before starting anything, so please tell me why I'm wrong or that my plan is horrible, just tell me how to do it better too. 

[abzman2000]

NEW PLAN!

now being scaled way down because of my procrastination so I can complete it in a month.  the panel has 23" of space (inside) widthwise, and 12" from front to back.  I think with a little work I can make it usable without a box and have two sticks (probably happ competitions, or supers) and 7 buttons a piece in the layout I had previously designated for my player 1 and 2.  should it fit comfortably? I think I might be able to make it fit, also, how many admin buttons will I need? I'm assuming one (for shifting? I can't remember, it's been too long since I last worked on this project) but in addition to that I want one pause button (shift function would be exit) and p1, p2 start, does that sound doable?

[Lucky S.O.B.]

I too wanted a 4 player control panel especially for NBA jam and blitz but I have a major requirement for robotron, smash tv and total carnage... The issue I have now is I angled players 3 and 4 (like your design) and I cannot play the "dual controller" type games since the second controller is not at the same angle

Back to drawing board...

PS: ignore the haters for the Frankenstein design, it actually looks good with the right artwork.

[ivwshane]

Instead of a franken panel with everything under the sun on it I would consider a modular design or at the very least a cp design that would allow you to easily swap out cp tops with various setups on it.

[abzman2000]

I like the frankenpannel design, and would love a modular design, although my time is short.  I will do this cab in stages and the first stage is to make it presentable by penguicon (may 1st) and to do that I want to limit myself by not building a box, but using the cab as-is, if I can, so with the space requirements outlined in my last post can I get some opinions on the proposed 2 player panel?

next stages should involve larger/swapable panels, but for now, smaller is easier, and faster

[abzman2000]

here is the layout I designed, it should be to scale and is almost perfect, I printed, cut, combined, and scanned a couple of pdf layouts I found online somewhere to make the one I think I want.  Disregard the button on top, start buttons will be placed independantly of the player layouts.