Stargate / Defender

[Danno]

Who makes a 2 directional joystick that would replace the one used for Stargate / Defender?

Thanks

Danno

[Thenasty]

I think this web site sells them....

http://www.mantisamusements.com/joystick1.htm

[Darren Harris]

They only sell the bases and not the other parts.(Particularly the joystick shaft and handle).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7@mail.con2.com

[skum1208]

HUH?  That link says that they sell joysticks for $10.

[tektreve]

I've been trying to find out more info about the Defender/Stargate/Joust style 2-way sticks also, but haven't had much luck.  Mantis Amusements told me they only sell the kits ($20) to rebuild the joysticks and that they "have no source for the other parts".  They also said they have replacement red balls ($10) for the joysticks although they said they "are a different texture and color red than the originals").

Is there anyone out there who has a schematic or diagram of these joysticks?  If we could determine what additional parts would be needed, perhaps we could build such 2-way sticks for use in our MAME cabinets.

[Billabong]

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, but I think Happs sells a two-way Ultimate: http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/ultimate_joy.htm
(Never used it though, don't know how it 'feels' compared to Defender/Joust stick)

But, the shaft is not the red-ball style. Maybe you could order a different shaft?


Later,
Billabong

[Lilwolf]

Really doesn't work for defender since it doesn't feel the same on how far you move it (1) and that you can't get the reverse button close enough (2)

I hope I'm not stating the obvious, but I think Happs sells a two-way Ultimate: http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/ultimate_joy.htm
(Never used it though, don't know how it 'feels' compared to Defender/Joust stick)

But, the shaft is not the red-ball style. Maybe you could order a different shaft?


Later,
Billabong

[tektreve]

For most 2-way games, if you just use a regular 4 or 8 way joystick it won't feel completely right unless it is physically limited from moving in more than one axis.  However, for Defender/Stargate/Joust the joystick had more of a "sliding" action rather than the "pivoting" action of a normal joystick.

If you look at the images on the following pages, it might be more clear as to how these joysticks worked:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1077381889
http://www.mantisamusements.com/joystick1.htm

Also, as lilwolf mentioned, the reverse button in Defender/Stargate was mounted very close to the joystick...



I was hoping that someone would have schematics/diagrams of these joysticks so we could determine what parts we'd need to add to the kit from Mantis Amusements to create a Defender/Joust like joystick.  Perhaps someone has a technical manual with this info out there...

[Darren Harris]

Don't hold your breath. I've been attmpting to get that info for the longest.

The only way is to get the actual joystick assembly itself. Which is why I recently bid and won one on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1075868055

Nevertheless, I'm in the process of trying to get one of two different guys to make the joysticks for this, like they did for Robotron.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7@mail.con2.com

[tektreve]

The only way is to get the actual joystick assembly itself. Which is why I recently bid and won one on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1075868055

Any way you could be convinced to take some detailed pictures of it when you get it?  Perhaps even disassemble it so we could figure out if we could put a "clone" together with the parts from Martis Amusements.  

[Darren Harris]

Actually, that is "Mantis Amusements".

And the part I am receiving is the original version of what they are copying.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7@mail.con2.com

[Lilwolf]

For people who want to hack something.

Someone (Oscar?  was it you) made a shifter with a regular light switch.  It looked ok, definetly hacked, definetaly not super sturdy, but it cost him 4 bucks!

something to look into.  might work for defender.

find a 3 way switch or a 2 way with a big middle dead zone.  attach a rod on it with a knob and screw it in.

I would love it if someone came up with a good design that came from regular hardware objects.

I also considered making a sliding one with two pieces of PVC.   (one inside the other that slides.  Cut a channel in the outside one and attach (super super glue or somethign) a rounded joystick top.  Then add a leaf switch on each end.  This should work well, but I don't have the time to play with it (or the extra PVC slop to build it).

[tektreve]

Actually, that is "Mantis Amusements".

oops, typo.

And the part I am receiving is the original version of what they are copying.

Yeah, I realize you bought just the base, but I think Mantis is selling just the metal parts of the base and not the hardware.  Your purchase should have all the hardware and probably only needs the shaft and ball.  A shaft/ball can be found.  Microswitches...readily available.  However, it seems to be the hardware that makes the base slide properly that is the big unknown.

Perhaps, when you get it, you'll take some pictures for the rest of us.  I'd be willing to buy one of the kits from Mantis, IF I can get the right hardware to make it work.  Then just add the stick, ball and switches.  Or do you think there are any other parts needed?

[tektreve]

...something to look into.

[Lilwolf]

Yeah, the light switch was designed to go with racing games.  And at a few bucks, if they break, it's just annoying.

Just mentioning what I've seen.  I would love to see a good hack from someone!  Just trying to setup some ideas for others

[JMDickson]

If you could find a sturdy momentary dpdt toggle switch...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&User_ID=4950632&st=3571&st2=-78418881&st3=-81414993&Product_ID=1269&CATID=41

[tektreve]

If you could find a sturdy momentary dpdt toggle switch...
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&User_ID=4950632&st=3571&st2=-78418881&st3=-81414993&Product_ID=1269&CATID=41

We'd probably be better off using a pair of microswitches or even leaf switches.  They'd probably hold up much better and would be easier to integrate with a sliding mechanism.

[Searcher7]

I doubt that that would come close to the feel and responsiveness of the orginal Williams joystick assembly.

These are extremely difficult to come by which is why my friend Dwayne just paid almost $30 for each of two of them on Ebay.

But I found someone who is beginning to repro a lot of arcade control related stuff. I already picked up two Robotron sticks(which tend to go for about $25 when he auctions them on Ebay).

http://www.amusementreproductions.tzo.com/

He's looking for ideas, so I'm going to ask him to make restrictors and/or leaf-switches.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7@mail.con2.com

[Lindner24]

Here are some photos that show you what parts you would need. Shouldn't be too hard to rig something up.
Notice the holes in the housing, those are for mounting micro switches (with armature) if you want to go that way.

[Danno]

Thanks for the interest in this topic..

Request: Linder24

Wouild it be possible to flip the joystick over in image #3 and post a picture of this.

Danno

[Lindner24]

Here are some more photos..If this is not what you're looking for, let me know..

[Lilwolf]

Cool pictures.  I had it completely wrong how they worked!  (seen far pictures, and thought the two metal brackets slid back and forth).

Now, I will need a new hacking idea

[Searcher7]

I just received another flip-flop joystick assembly.(Thanks Chris).

The metal base is two main parts screwed together, and the tension that centers the joystick comes from the leaf switches themselves which have extra metal strips that are somewhat flexible.(I really would like to find out what they are made of).

I don't know what reproducing these would entail, but I can see how it is possible to duplicate the feel of one of these joystick assemblies so that unless you look under the CP, you would not know the original wasn't there.

Once one has the proper sized joystick(which has about a two inch shaft showing beneath the ball-top),  it is easy to determine the joystick's axis of rotation.

It is the tension through the joysticks range of motion that one would probably have to work on.(Springs or bushings may or may not work).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7@mail.con2.com