New Electric ICE Trackball Ver 2 - Announcement - GroovyGameGear

[RandyT]

So, is there an option to buy the ball only ? (2.25")

The store has been updated to offer a Ball Only Item for those who just want to kick their existing units up a notch.

I also updated the 1.0 Upgrade item with the 2.25" option for those folks.

And I'd appreciate a picture when lit red

Give me a day or so.  Celebrating my mom's birthday later today, so a bit short on time.  But I'll make it a point to do it (and maybe some other colors as well.)

RandyT

[Level42]

Congrats !

Glad there's a ball-only option

And if I'm not too much of a pain, could you take about the same pics as the V1 were (with trackball cover on)

[RandyT]

And if I'm not too much of a pain, could you take about the same pics as the V1 were (with trackball cover on)

Sure.

Ok, this is the last time I move things around, I promise!

The ball only option is now listed under the normal Electric ICE™ lighting upgrade listing.  If anyone just wants the ball, select "none" as the lighting option.  This just made a lot more sense and got rid of the clutter.  It also allowed me to add some monochromatic lighting options.

RandyT

[Chris G]

Sorry if this was answered elsewhere - how long will you be offering the upgrade?

[RandyT]

Sorry if this was answered elsewhere - how long will you be offering the upgrade?

Lets see....today is Sunday, so, 1, 2, 3...Oh, screw it.  As long as it takes 

Seriously, I know it can take some time for folks to come up with the extra money for one of these, especially nowadays, and I want everyone who supported us with their purchase of V1.0 to have the opportunity to get the new one without paying the full price.

RandyT

[Level42]

Randy, I have to ask:

Is there _any_ chance of seeing an Electric ICE button for leaf switches ?

I guess not, since you are also selling the micro-leaf but I had to ask....

So if not, would the "leaf switches that fit ms-buttons" that Ponyboy sold work on the Electric Ice, while still being able to light it with a LED ?

[RandyT]

Is there _any_ chance of seeing an Electric ICE button for leaf switches ?

I guess not, since you are also selling the micro-leaf but I had to ask....

So if not, would the "leaf switches that fit ms-buttons" that Ponyboy sold work on the Electric Ice, while still being able to light it with a LED ?

Honestly, if I could find an inexpensive source for decent and authentic pushbutton leaf switches, I would consider working on an adapter of my own.  But I have not been able to.

But I think if you do a search, you might find that someone did modify those adapters to work with an EI button and RGB-Drive.  IIRC, it involved dremeling off the upper portion of the adapter to allow for clearance of the circuit board.  I had some concern about stability due to one of the structures of the adapter being removed but it apparently didn't affect it's operation.

RandyT

[Level42]

Thanks Randy. Shame about the leaf buttons, but I already thought it would be something like that.

My plan with the IE button was to simply put a led in the bottom of it, just like with a regular translucent MS button. Simply drill a hole for the LED, shift it in and ready. There's virtually no height required for that.
I wouldn't use the RGB drive because I only need one color: red.

I want to use this on my Centipede cab because the V2.0 EI trackball and button would look pretty much original in power-off, and look very fancy when lit. This would look a _lot_ better in power off then the orange looking trackball (when unlit) I've got now, and the red translucent button.
So I just want a steady red, no color cycling, so no RGB board required.

So you think one (of your) LED is enough to light up the trackball and the button (one each of course )
I've got one LED under my current red translucent trackball, and I'm happy with the shine. I don't want it to be overly bright when playing the game....

Here's some pics:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63654.msg776121#msg776121

[RandyT]

So you think one (of your) LED is enough to light up the trackball and the button (one each of course )
I've got one LED under my current red translucent trackball, and I'm happy with the shine. I don't want it to be overly bright when playing the game....

The Electric ICE Trackballs require a little more light.  They scatter everything that goes into them causing the whole ball to light very evenly, whereas your current ball acts much like a lens, allowing you to see the light source pretty clearly (and blast you in the eyes when you look down into it.)  In your current situation, reduced light may be beneficial because most of it is exiting the ball.

However, the more light you give an Electric ICE ball, the more vivid and uniform the color will be.  If you look at the product listing for the Lighting Upgrade Kit, you will notice the NovaGem Lighting options.  These are the only single LEDs which I would suggest using.  Other standard 20ma "superbrights" will work, but I would say that a minimum of 4 to 5 of them in a group will be necessary to get the best results.

The photo in the first post was taken using the RGB-Overdrive light unit, which has 4 RGB LED's on it.  In that photo, only the Blue parts of each were lit, so it is the equivalent of 4 superbright Blue LED's. 

I'll try to get to those photos of other colors soon.

RandyT

[RandyT]

Ok, as promised....

The camera can't pick up some of the really subtle colors, like the awesome turquoise and hot-pink I was able to make, but it should give an idea as to the quality. 

RandyT

[edge]

Randy - I love your new balls.   Nice job.

Are these balls heavier than the original Electric Ice ball?

[NIVO]

thats a great question edge. I too am wondering if these are heavier than the previous version? Randy, do tell.

[DeLuSioNal29]

He mentioned the weight in his first posting:

First the good news:  The ball is polished like a gem.  Perfect diffusion of the light and the exact same size and weight as the stock white ball that is normally used. Ultra-high scratch resistance and excellent tracking make this the best illuminated trackball money can buy...bar none.

[fixedpigs]

i thought about that...but then realised that it never says what weight that is...

i have no idea if it's lighter or heavier than the v1 ball...do you...?

 

[patrickl]

Do these balls show any color when lit during the day?

[RandyT]

Are these balls heavier than the original Electric Ice ball?

Yes.  They are the same weight as the stock, opaque white ball, which is heavier than V1.  The version 1 ball weighed about the same as a stock translucent.

Performance is identical to the stock, opaque white ball

Do these balls show any color when lit during the day?

Absolutely.  See the first post.  As I'm sure you know, taking a photo of a light source is extremely tricky.  The darkening of the surroundings was done by the camera, which needed to have the light sensitivity adjusted down to keep the ball from overpowering the sensor.  That makes the areas surrounding it appear darker than they were.

These are the best balls you will find for this application.  I am not overstating this

RandyT

[ahofle]

These are the best balls you will find for this application.  I am not overstating this

 
You so should have constructed your product announcement like this (minus the semi-NSFW stuff):
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33772

[FrizzleFried]

...can someone post a comparison of the old ball vs the new?

[RandyT]

...can someone post a comparison of the old ball vs the new?

Yes, please do   They should be be in the hands of quite a few folks at this point.

I also would like to make a comment regarding a somewhat derisive post made in reference to V1 in a different thread, by patrickl.

V1, like version 1 of anything, was the best product it could be at the time, given the circumstances surrounding the development of a new "niche" product.  It was the first of it's kind ever, so we had to take a huge chance on our investment in the product.  I searched very hard for a ball made of a material that could be tweaked a bit in manufacturing to provide good functionality, but also one that didn't require us to spend many thousands of dollars on a product for an untested market.    I heard "impossible" or got huge price quotes from so many manufacturers that we were fortunate to be able to provide what we could.  Based on the majority of positive comments and the quantity we have provided, it's difficult not to think that V1 was a great success.  Even so, I never stopped looking to improve it.  Now that we have a solid indicator that the market is ready for such a product, we found a reliable manufacturer and have invested those thousands of dollars, making the product even better.  It also comes as no surprise that our lead is once again being followed after doing such. 

The fact that we were finally able to source these superb new items from a high quality U.S. manufacturer is just icing on the cake.  High profit for GGG on the balls isn't as important as the ability to establish a relationship with the manufacturer in the way of more orders, which helps to keep them and their employees around for the next time.  Something that is not "a given" considering the current state of factory jobs in the U.S.

These are the reasons why it is important to me that the V2 upgrade to be affordable to all who purchased V1.  V2 is the version I would have liked to have offered from the start, but it just was not possible at that time.

On another note, about 4 weeks ago I developed a new trackball mounting method, during the design phase of an upcoming control panel product that we hope to bring to market soon.  It is a "high-ball" installation for a 3/4" panel that requires only a few pieces of special hardware and a template (no mounting plate).  If you have a router, a drill and the the most rudimentary of skills with them, you will be able to install your EI trackball cleanly and with no big, ugly mounting plates or carriage bolts.  Only a small round bezel (in your choice of color) around the ball itself.

The kit will be inexpensive and will be available as soon as I can finish the prototypes.

RandyT

[Level42]

Randy, good that you responded to that. I think Patrick should have mentioned that in this thread and not in the one about Andy's new balls. But I figure he thought you'd read it anyway there....

If you buy a product, there often is a mention in the manual that the manufacturer reserves the right to change or improve the product. If I buy a certain product now, I can bet that there will be an improved version in the near future. That gives the buyer no right to anything. This is just how it works in real-life.
Instead, Randy offers a very fair deal on the replacement for V1 buyers and I think that's a great thing. Shows how he thinks about customer satisfaction etc.

I hope we can keep this thread to talking about the product however !!!!!!

[Level42]

Randy, what is the Novagem light-source ?
And does it fit an original Atari trackball ?

O, and thanks for the pictures. Is that Red the same color on the Novagem light-source ?

I am asking this because many super-bright LED's that are being sold now look more orange than red to me.  And I want red. Not orange (The red on the pictures looks great)

[RandyT]

What is the Novagem light-source ?

It is a very high output LED, equivalent to the luminous flux of about 5 of the normal "superbright" variety. 

Just a quick note here as well: LED output is measured by luminous flux not MCD.  You can have 2 LED's with the exact same light output, even though one is rated at 5000mcd and the other at 2500mcd. 

And does it fit an original Atari trackball ?

I don't have an Atari, but I do have an original WICO, which I understand to be the same.  Essentially, if it has large hole in the bottom, and next to the large hole is a small hole intended for a lighting assembly, yes, it will work.

RandyT

[Level42]

Well, this is the underside of my Atari trackball:


There seems to be only one small hole....I put the LED in there (just an experimental set-up).

[whammoed]

There seems to be only one small hole....I put the LED in there (just an experimental set-up).

Yes, the 2.25 inch has a small hole, but you can drill it out to make it larger easily enough.
The 3 inch version has a much larger hole.

[RandyT]

I have the 3" WICO, so they aren't the same.   Yes, you would probably need to drill that one out a bit for best effect (good suggestion.)  And as long as you have the drill handy, it won't take much to put a small screw hole next to it.

RandyT

[Level42]

Thank, sounds easy enough.

Randy, thanks for all your prompt responses. I will place the order within the hour

[Edit] Order placed

[ids]

I also would like to make a comment regarding a somewhat derisive post made in reference to V1 in a different thread, by patrickl.

Haven't read it - not interested in whiners.  I was a bit disappointed to hear of a newer, better ball so soon after getting a v1, but this is a fact of life - I got exactly what I bought, nothing to complain about  (not even sure if this is what the other post was about).  Newer stuff comes out all the time (think: computers).  The fact that you are offering an upgrade is great; an offer I will accept as soon as money and the boss allow.

On another note, about 4 weeks ago I developed a new trackball mounting method...

The kit will be inexpensive and will be available as soon as I can finish the prototypes.

Can't wait - I suspect this is just what I've been looking for - a way to mount the ball higher than stock (pull the top off), and not worry about it smacking into the 3" hole I cut for it to stick out of the CP (being mounted below).  Again, when money and boss permit, ....  You're really killing my finances (but it's not all bad)

[fjl]

Wait, so this upgrade means i will pay $17 dollars just for the ball so I can exchange it with the old not as glossy trackball?

[RandyT]

Wait, so this upgrade means i will pay $17 dollars just for the ball so I can exchange it with the old not as glossy trackball?

If you are in the U.S. it's $17 shipped.  $14 + shipping for users outside of the U.S. 

V2 offers better looks, performance and durability.   If you are happy with V1, there's no need to upgrade.  The path was simply made available to those who wished to.

RandyT

[fjl]

Awesome, I'll upgrade mines then

So as someone previously mentioned, how about a newsletter to promote your new hardware incase I miss it at these forums.

[weisshaupt]

...can someone post a comparison of the old ball vs the new?

Just got mine today! (Thanks RandyT)

There is no doubt in my mind that V2 is worth every penny. I just dropped it in and played my first game of Centipede.  It feels right, and looks as good as if not better than the old ball as far as illumination goes, with this one of course having that "shine"in addition..  It has, as one might expect, a harder surface than v1, and it rolls better and longer in my old wico TB casing than the v1 ball did. Tracking seems to me to be slightly better, and    My 4 year old daughter just doubled her previous high score.. 

A Special thanks to RandyT for offering the discount for buyers of V1.

[RandyT]

A question was asked earlier about single LED lighting and I said it would work.  I figured I should back that up with a photo (unmodified), so here it is thrown on top of a single 49 cent Red ButtonBlaster LED;

You can see the room lights reflected on the glossy surface of the ball, and the fact that you can easily make out the PCB and the wires shows that there is a reasonable amount of ambient light.  If your gaming area has it's lighting subdued at all, or the panel is shaded,  this setup will probably be sufficient.  But in direct lighting, the NovaGem and RGB-Overdrive light sources will perform far better and overpower any reasonable ambient lighting to really make it "pop".

Hopefully this will better demonstrate the lighting characteristics of the ball.

RandyT

[RandyT]

Can't wait - I suspect this is just what I've been looking for - a way to mount the ball higher than stock (pull the top off), and not worry about it smacking into the 3" hole I cut for it to stick out of the CP (being mounted below).

Finally got a chance to prototype the kit.  This is a bit of an improvement on that method, through the use of some specialized items.  If everything is done as shown in the documentation, then it all goes together with very little precision required at the router step.  In fact, it can be pretty sloppy and everything will still look great.

I felt a bit silly using a hand-router to do this on the table of my 4'x8' CNC, but I guess it was necessary to demonstrate how easily it can be done by hand.  It also gave me chance to show just how imprecise the router work can be without it negatively affecting this mounting method.

The camera never seems to do the lighting justice, but here's a pic (you can click it to make it larger);

This result is a true High-ball, with the apex of the ball sitting a full inch above the panel surface and no bolt heads.

The kit with have a price of $6.95 and include 1card-stock template, 1 finishing plate, 3 finishing plate screws, 4 threaded inserts, 4 trackball mounting machine screws, a 5mm Hex Key and full instructions.  It should be available in a few days.

RandyT

[RetroBorg]

The camera never seems to do the lighting justice, but here's a pic (you can click it to make it larger);

That looks real nice. 

[ids]

It should be available in a few days.

I think I shall be placing an order in a few days 

Looks great, just what I need - thanks!

[Level42]

A question was asked earlier about single LED lighting and I said it would work. 

Yep, that was my question. Well, I decided to go with the Novagem lighting module. We'll see how it turns out

[Jdurg]

I hate you Randy.   


I have a trackball I'm perfectly happy with (A Happs 3" I got a great deal on off of E-Bay), but now I want to buy one of yours.  Plus, I want to buy 80 other things on your website.  You make grown men cry........................



Thank you government for the tax rebate check.   

[slsimon]

Randy, this maybe a stupid question but are these new trackballs compatible if you already have a Happ. I  only see it in the Suzo on your site and just want to make sure it is the same size for a Happ base.

Actually, they are an Imperial model, not Suzo.  But Yes, the balls and lighting units will indeed work in a HAPP trackball just fine.  We include extra RGB-Overdrive mounting spacers for them in the lighting upgrade kits.  The Suzos are reportedly not so simple by virtue of the non-standard housing.  But it can be done if you make your own mounting plate, as one user has for his.

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement (and your patience.)  All of the Electric ICE trackball products are updated and available again.  The upgrade for purchasers of V1.0 is up as well.  I'll be looking at the monochromatic option shortly, for those who might be interested.

RandyT

Pictures as promised Randy and BYOAC members.  Still not sure what type of trackball I have.  Besides the GGG hardware, the only other companies that I ordered from were happcontrols and ultimarc.  I think the trackball may be an older model Suzo.  Anyway, I had no way to mount Randy's RGB trackball board so I used an exacto nife and etched out the appropriate diminsions for the RGB board.  This was a very time consuming process.  The plastic mount came from a CD cover which I found is very easy to break.  I have a couple music cd's that no longer have covers,  .  No laughing here,  but the mount did the trick.  It's not the best looking mount by far but I do believe will work.  The screw holes were already predrilled on the trackball so not much work to be done there.  I had to drill out the holes a little to match the screws I had but besides that, I think everything worked out awesome. 

The other pictures attached are to just show possible ways of routing the cables and how I went about mounting the LedWiz devices and running the appropriate cables for those controllers.  The only ledwiz that I have done is the one shown.  Three more to finish.  Still need to run 5V to the Opti-Pac, ledwiz controllers (4).  Other than that, I think I have it pretty well knocked out.   

Look at the screw heads on the ledwiz controller.  Do you think I will need to replace the screws due to the heads being really close to the circuitry and or am I in the clear?  They are the screws that came with the ledwiz controllers. 

Can't wait to see all the buttons and trackball light up the way they should!!  Thanks to Randy for his great products.  You can see that I have the spinner kit from Randy as well.  I am very impressed with the spinner knob.  Thanks, Shane

[RandyT]

Look at the screw heads on the ledwiz controller.  Do you think I will need to replace the screws due to the heads being really close to the circuitry and or am I in the clear?  They are the screws that came with the ledwiz controllers. 

Nahh, those screw heads are a mile away from anything

Nice job on the adapter for the RGB-OverDrive unit.  Looks like it worked out fine.   Good looking wiring job there as well!

RandyT

[Level42]

Holy smokes !

I just got home and my neighbor rings at the door, she has a package for me

It's from the US so it must be.......yes it's the GGG stuff  Ice ball and button and some lighting stuff.

Looks very nice, and incredibly fast delivery !!!! I ordered it 7 days ago, and I chose the cheapest shipping method !

Expect some pictures of the mounted stuff here soon.....