4 Player Control Panel Wireing Question

[slsimon]

Hello!  I am in the process of wireing up my 4 player control panel and am not sure how to wire up the 3 and 4 player joystick switches.  Player 1 and 2 was easy to wire up because up was toward the monitor which means the joystick would hit the bottom switch of the joystick and I wired as such.  Now, my player 3 and 4 is setup to where up is diagonal to the monitor.  When I press up on the joystick, there are two switches that are being touched at one time.  I have 8 way joysticks by the way.  So I am not sure if it matters what switch I need to wire up for the up switch.  Thanks for any suggestions... 

[Avrus]

Hello!  I am in the process of wireing up my 4 player control panel and am not sure how to wire up the 3 and 4 player joystick switches.  Player 1 and 2 was easy to wire up because up was toward the monitor which means the joystick would hit the bottom switch of the joystick and I wired as such.  Now, my player 3 and 4 is setup to where up is diagonal to the monitor.  When I press up on the joystick, there are two switches that are being touched at one time.  I have 8 way joysticks by the way.  So I am not sure if it matters what switch I need to wire up for the up switch.  Thanks for any suggestions... 

Sounds like you're discovering why it doesn't work out well to put Player 3 and Player 4 on a diagnol.  If you're pushing the stick 'straight' towards to the monitor then it would only be hitting one switch.   Player 3 and Player 4 would be wired exactly the same as P1 and P2.

I set up my P3 and P4 to be positioned the same as P1 and P2 so as to avoid any confusion for the player.

[slsimon]

Hello!  I am in the process of wireing up my 4 player control panel and am not sure how to wire up the 3 and 4 player joystick switches.  Player 1 and 2 was easy to wire up because up was toward the monitor which means the joystick would hit the bottom switch of the joystick and I wired as such.  Now, my player 3 and 4 is setup to where up is diagonal to the monitor.  When I press up on the joystick, there are two switches that are being touched at one time.  I have 8 way joysticks by the way.  So I am not sure if it matters what switch I need to wire up for the up switch.  Thanks for any suggestions... 

Sounds like you're discovering why it doesn't work out well to put Player 3 and Player 4 on a diagnol.  If you're pushing the stick 'straight' towards to the monitor then it would only be hitting one switch.   Player 3 and Player 4 would be wired exactly the same as P1 and P2.

I set up my P3 and P4 to be positioned the same as P1 and P2 so as to avoid any confusion for the player.

In my opinion, I feel that if I was standing at a diagonal, pressing up towards the monitor as to pressing up diagonal of the monitor would feel odd and possibly throw me off when playing a game.  That is why I wanted player 3 and 4 to be setup with a diagonal up position.  I suppose just rotating the joystick base would work.  Thanks for the heads up.  Thanks,

[northerngames]

yeah you will have to move the joystick base and redo the mounting.

[DaveMMR]

Hello!  I am in the process of wireing up my 4 player control panel and am not sure how to wire up the 3 and 4 player joystick switches.  Player 1 and 2 was easy to wire up because up was toward the monitor which means the joystick would hit the bottom switch of the joystick and I wired as such.  Now, my player 3 and 4 is setup to where up is diagonal to the monitor.  When I press up on the joystick, there are two switches that are being touched at one time.  I have 8 way joysticks by the way.  So I am not sure if it matters what switch I need to wire up for the up switch.  Thanks for any suggestions... 

Sounds like you're discovering why it doesn't work out well to put Player 3 and Player 4 on a diagnol.  If you're pushing the stick 'straight' towards to the monitor then it would only be hitting one switch.   Player 3 and Player 4 would be wired exactly the same as P1 and P2.

I set up my P3 and P4 to be positioned the same as P1 and P2 so as to avoid any confusion for the player.

In my opinion, I feel that if I was standing at a diagonal, pressing up towards the monitor as to pressing up diagonal of the monitor would feel odd and possibly throw me off when playing a game. 

You don't have to stand at a diagonal.   

[Avrus]

Hello!  I am in the process of wireing up my 4 player control panel and am not sure how to wire up the 3 and 4 player joystick switches.  Player 1 and 2 was easy to wire up because up was toward the monitor which means the joystick would hit the bottom switch of the joystick and I wired as such.  Now, my player 3 and 4 is setup to where up is diagonal to the monitor.  When I press up on the joystick, there are two switches that are being touched at one time.  I have 8 way joysticks by the way.  So I am not sure if it matters what switch I need to wire up for the up switch.  Thanks for any suggestions... 

Sounds like you're discovering why it doesn't work out well to put Player 3 and Player 4 on a diagnol.  If you're pushing the stick 'straight' towards to the monitor then it would only be hitting one switch.   Player 3 and Player 4 would be wired exactly the same as P1 and P2.

I set up my P3 and P4 to be positioned the same as P1 and P2 so as to avoid any confusion for the player.

In my opinion, I feel that if I was standing at a diagonal, pressing up towards the monitor as to pressing up diagonal of the monitor would feel odd and possibly throw me off when playing a game. 

You don't have to stand at a diagonal.   

Makes you look hip though if you stand at a diagonal.

 

[Fozzy The Bear]

In my opinion, I feel that if I was standing at a diagonal, pressing up towards the monitor as to pressing up diagonal of the monitor would feel odd and possibly throw me off when playing a game.  That is why I wanted player 3 and 4 to be setup with a diagonal up position.

If I understand what you're saying then rotating the stick in relation to the monitor on the outer players is a very very bad idea. It makes it very difficult to play in those positions. It's clear that you've never actually tried it. sticks should always be set square to the front face of the monitor. Never at an angle to the monitor. You'll discover why when you try to actually play a game in those positions.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Sir Auros]

Fozzy, you guys keep saying that, but my guests and myself have never had that problem with my player 3 & 4 joysticks angled at 45 degrees. Of course, it might have something to do with my control panel being extremely wide.

[Dazz]

I have to agree with Fozzy....  I have a 4 player cabinet and currently have player 3/4 at a diagonal, this is very confusing for many people.  Once I build a new control panel I will mount them as Fozzy states above.

[Minwah]

How did Gauntlet do it? The red/green player text is 90deg to the monitor but presumably the joysticks aren't?

I can't remember...it was so long ago.  Or maybe I was just never red/green player...

[DaveMMR]

How did Gauntlet do it? The red/green player text is 90deg to the monitor but presumably the joysticks aren't?

I can't remember...it was so long ago.  Or maybe I was just never red/green player...

I used to play the Warrior and Elf pretty much sideways.  I believe they were all "north to monitor"

[milhouse]

Seems weird looking at it like that, but I guess it makes sense when you are moving your character on a screen.  The character would be following your movements.  The CPs for TMNT and The Simpsons don't indicate which way is up.

[slsimon]

In my opinion, I feel that if I was standing at a diagonal, pressing up towards the monitor as to pressing up diagonal of the monitor would feel odd and possibly throw me off when playing a game.  That is why I wanted player 3 and 4 to be setup with a diagonal up position.

If I understand what you're saying then rotating the stick in relation to the monitor on the outer players is a very very bad idea. It makes it very difficult to play in those positions. It's clear that you've never actually tried it. sticks should always be set square to the front face of the monitor. Never at an angle to the monitor. You'll discover why when you try to actually play a game in those positions.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Wow, from reading sounds like there is a 50/50 stance on if the joysticks should be forced in an up position north of the monitor and or at a diagonal for players 3 and 4.  I did not know that this was such a touchy subject.  Because I have no previous playing time on player 3 and player 4 controls, I have decided to leave myself enough cable as to turn the player 3 and player 4 joystick bases if needed later.  Currently I have up on the players joysticks set in a diagonal position of the monitor.  I will be asking for feedback from house members and friends once all completed and go from there.  At the moment, I had to get the wireing done so I could start on wireing up all the Electric ICE RGB boards.  When you have a 4 player control panel, with 6 buttones per player, coin and start per player, 4 admin buttons, trackball, spinner, and left/right click mouse buttons that calls for alot of wireing and a big headache in doing so. 

Actually the wireing is going pretty good.  A couple hours here and there over a two to three week period, should have all the wireing looking pretty good under the panel.  I will upload some pics when I am done.  I bet you I have at minimum 200 ft of wireing. 

Thanks for all the feedback. Thanks, Shane

[u_rebelscum]

Wow, from reading sounds like there is a 50/50 stance on if the joysticks should be forced in an up position north of the monitor and or at a diagonal for players 3 and 4.  I did not know that this was such a touchy subject.

It's been discussed a few times here before (random examples: 1, 2, 3, 4), but IMO:

Depends on the person and the game.  I don't like playing the edges, but...

Games like Gauntlet (topdown & puzzle), I play better with the joysticks all parallel.  (Like the game was....)

OTOH, with shmups, platform, scrolling, and fighters, left & right are my left & right, so if I'm standing 30 degrees off, I want my left and right to be rotated 30 degrees, too.  However, my up and down are near parallel to the screen.  So I end up going left up and right down a lot no matter how the sticks are oriented.  If the sticks are parallel, when I want to go left & right respectively; If the sticks are pointing at the screen, when I want to go up & down respectively. 

So AFAI care, both rotated and straight player 3 & 4 joysticks suck for most (but not all) games.

[DaveMMR]

Just a correction to rebelscum's links: the first link actually refers to changing the orientation of the U360's plate from horizontal to vertical, not the "diagonal mounting" debate.

But I've voiced my opinions on angling joysticks many times, so I'll spare everyone my repetitiveness.  I'll just offer these obviously biased tips if you're struggling with a decision:

1. Make a mock-up of the angled sticks and see how it plays in relations to where you're standing.  If you (and your friends) have no problems, then go for it.

2. While angling may give players more space, you're also adding to the width of the panel, giving the outer players a less desirable view of the action (unless you're going showcase).

3.  There's nothing wrong with placing the buttons in unorthodox positions in relation to the sticks for the outer players for extra space (which is how NBA Jam, Simpsons, Gauntlet, etc. had theirs). 

4. If you keep you sticks all straight, you can use them for two player dual-joystick games (without extensive remapping in MAME*).

5. When in doubt, ask yourself "What Would Midway/Konami/Atari Do?"  (hint: all straight)

Good Luck!

[Avrus]

4. If you keep you sticks all straight, you can use them for two player dual-joystick games (without extensive remapping in MAME*).

Since we're on the subject, and not to hijack the thread, how does one configure the dual joystick thing in MAME?  I assumed it was the right, right - up right, up down functions or is there something else I need to be aware of?

[slsimon]

4. If you keep you sticks all straight, you can use them for two player dual-joystick games (without extensive remapping in MAME*).

Since we're on the subject, and not to hijack the thread, how does one configure the dual joystick thing in MAME?  I assumed it was the right, right - up right, up down functions or is there something else I need to be aware of?

Perfectly appropriate question.  To add to your question, I will ask one of my own.  What games play dual player dual joystick setups?  Very interesting.  I was not even aware of such games.  Now isn't that funny, .  I can see where they would be very fun to play, (i.e. mom & dad against son and daughter).  I am interested.....  Thanks,

[Avrus]

4. If you keep you sticks all straight, you can use them for two player dual-joystick games (without extensive remapping in MAME*).

Since we're on the subject, and not to hijack the thread, how does one configure the dual joystick thing in MAME?  I assumed it was the right, right - up right, up down functions or is there something else I need to be aware of?

Perfectly appropriate question.  To add to your question, I will ask one of my own.  What games play dual player dual joystick setups?  Very interesting.  I was not even aware of such games.  Now isn't that funny, .  I can see where they would be very fun to play, (i.e. mom & dad against son and daughter).  I am interested.....  Thanks,

Off the top of my head the primary ones are:

Battlezone
Karate Champ
Smash TV

I'm sure there's many more?

[DaveMMR]

Total Carnage too. 

[u_rebelscum]

Just a correction to rebelscum's links: the first link actually refers to changing the orientation of the U360's plate from horizontal to vertical, not the "diagonal mounting" debate.

  My bad.

1. Make a mock-up of the angled sticks and see how it plays in relations to where you're standing.  If you (and your friends) have no problems, then go for it.

Yes, totally.

4. If you keep you sticks all straight, you can use them for two player dual-joystick games (without extensive remapping in MAME*).

If by "straight" you mean both parallel and lined up with each other, okay.    One thing to note, though, I like dual sticks closer to each other than many people here have spaced the outside to inside sticks.  Which is another reason to do the aforementioned mock up.

Since we're on the subject, and not to hijack the thread, how does one configure the dual joystick thing in MAME?  I assumed it was the right, right - up right, up down functions or is there something else I need to be aware of?

Mame has dual joystick input types in addition to the other types like the standard joystick, dial, trackball, etc.  An example: "P1 joystick right up" (for the player 1's right joystick's up direction).

So let's say you set your 4player CP so players 1 & 2 are in the middle (j3 j1 j2 j4), and want to set it up for 2 player dual stick games.  Map "p1 left *" to joy3, "p1 right *" to joy1, "p2 left *" to joy2, and "p2 right *" to joy4.  The cool thing is doing this will not effect the more common single stick mapping.

Of course, you might want to map differently for single player dual stick games (coughrobotroncough), with joy1 & joy2 as the dual sticks.

That said, mame's defaults aren't going to match however you hooked up your sticks for both normal joystick and dual joystick games.  So you'll have to do some remapping in any case. 
Ctrlr file rules!!!

[DaveMMR]

If by "straight" you mean both parallel and lined up with each other, okay.    One thing to note, though, I like dual sticks closer to each other than many people here have spaced the outside to inside sticks.  Which is another reason to do the aforementioned mock up.

I meant just not at 45 degrees, but yes, lined up evenly would also make the games more playable than at different heights (though that may not be completely possible when you're trying to do a 4-player cabinet). 

And I agree with you regarding how close the sticks are to be playable.  When playing Robotron, my sticks feel a million miles apart, and I'm sure it would be worse when reaching for the outer sticks on a 4-player machine.