Lighted Buttons - Per Game

[DinoRoger]

Wanted to show you something I am working on that may be of interest.  I am working on hardware/software that will control LED lights for arcade buttons.  The software will generate a batch file that will turn on/off a series of LED's.  Some MAME front ends have the capability to execute an application before running the rom.  Program your front end to execute the created batch files.  Now you will have your LED light up for the buttons the game is designed to use.  Eventually I plan to build a master list that can be plugged in to spit out all the batch files based on the mame game list.  The hardware I am designing will plug in via serial port and can be daisy chained to allow more LED lights if needed.  Here is a screen shot of the software I have so far.  Will keep the forum updated on my progress.

Any suggestions, comments, ideas are appreciated.

 

[PacManFan]

Awesome idea!
I'll be the first to add support for it in EmuTron!
-PacManFan

Wanted to show you something I am working on that may be of interest.  I am working on hardware/software that will control LED lights for arcade buttons.  The software will generate a batch file that will turn on/off a series of LED's.  Some MAME front ends have the capability to execute an application before running the rom.  Program your front end to execute the created batch files.  Now you will have your LED light up for the buttons the game is designed to use.  Eventually I plan to build a master list that can be plugged in to spit out all the batch files based on the mame game list.  The hardware I am designing will plug in via serial port and can be daisy chained to allow more LED lights if needed.  Here is a screen shot of the software I have so far.  Will keep the forum updated on my progress.

Any suggestions, comments, ideas are appreciated.

 

[Zakk]

I like this idea.  How about an option for blinking or alternate/blinking lights?  To take it another step, you could have variable output, so that you could also control 12V lights, so that you coulf light/unlight/flash the light under the trackball, for example, although maybe that could be done with ultrabrites.  Same for a nice blinking marquee

[DinoRoger]

The hardware will be using up to 5V outputs.  I like to use 3V super brite LEDS myself using resistors.

[shmokes]

Would this be used to, say light up the relevant buttons for a particular game rather than having instruction cards or some such thing around the bezel?  I really want to incorporate a lighted VAN button for Spy Hunter, but I don't just want it lit all the time.  I want it to light up when the weapons van is available like in the arcade?  Would this program facilitate this in any way?

Even if it won't it sounds like I'm going to be buying a lot more LEDs than I had originally anticipated  

[shmokes]

Uh oh!  It might not work for me.  Not all of my LED's will be green  

[DinoRoger]

You choose which LED lights you want on or off and the application will create a batch file that will talk with the hardware to turn the lights on or off.  You use a front end that allows the launching of an EXE/BAT/COM file before the rom gets loaded (this is where you specify the batch file).  For example GLAUNCH front end allows you to speficy a file to run and can be customized differntly for every game.

My kit when finished will include the hardware that plugs into the PC (Serial), Instructions if using non 5V LEDs, and the software.  You get to choose what color of LED and type to use as long as it is 5V or less.

PS: I know you were joking about green.  I hope.  

[Xiaou2]

 I think this is a step in a good direction... though... I dont think Id need to light up anything with low light led's.

 If anything... the superbright leds could be made to do some cool lighting tricks.  

  I think going USB would be better than serial though.  Im suprised that motherboards still have serial ports on them... and surely they will probably dissapear someday.

  I was wondering if you might consider makeing a USB device that can control more than just lights.  Id love to make a 'mini' pinball machine - that is about 1ft * 2ft... using a smaller ball..ect.    Larger ones take up too much space... cost too much... and are a nightmare to repair.  

  Would be the ultimate if you could make a mini pinball that you can both custom build... and then create custom sound fx, music, and animations that are displayed on your pc monitor (instead of the usual led based screens).

  Imagine being able to recreate several of your favorite pins in mini scale... and be able to store like 20 of them in the same space a normal pinball would eat up.   Its would also be small enuff to easily take with you.

... dream

[DinoRoger]

You can always buy a USB to serial adapter.  My electronic skills are currently limited to serial/parrallel, but I will look into USB.

[M-80]

I might have missed this while excitedly reading through, but can you test which LED is which? Like you click on the icons of each of the LEDs and the LED in the cabinet blinks or lights up? Just so you know which is where. And I was going to ask if this would work with the Num/Caps/Scroll lights on the iPac, but you're circumventing that obviously. And it would certainly allow for the original number of lights on each game. Man, this really is a good idea. Just make sure the common LEDs are coordinated so you don't have blinking 1 Player Start marquees. LOL As soon as it goes on the market I'll probably buy one. This will certainly answer all my questions about LEDs in one fell swoop. Yeah, consider a USB option. That would rock for CPs that have a USB hub integrated. You'd only need one USB cord then for the CP.

[Thenasty]

the Idea is great. What about the pure DOS users ? Could the executable run in pure DOS ? How about extending the idea and have a 24"x7" (Marquee size) that is loaded with LED and displays the name of the Game (ie. PACMAN, TRON etc..) and when game is exited, it displays anything you want like MAME, Arcade, Video Games etc...

[shmokes]

When you exit a game will the lights go back off or would you have to run another game to reset them?

[Frostillicus]

Hmm...interesting. Questions:

So would you need to create a batch file for each individual game? Or, say, 6 different batch files by the number of buttons?  (like, 1button.bat 2button.bat 3button.bat etc..)  And so how would you go from a game that uses 3 buttons to a game that uses 6?  Would that be a front-end implementation to figure out which batch file to call before launching the game?

Lots of questions, but hey I'm curious  

Oh yeah, will this only be in 'kit' form or will you release the software, as well?

[cdbrown]

How about us big 4 player control panel users which have 4 start, 4 credit, 26 player buttons   .  Will your program be able to handle all those?  Will the hardware be able to support that many outputs?

Looks good.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[AX]

damn dood thats one cool idea.  I'm impressed.

[Valence]

Pretty kewl software. It will make it very easy for people to light up leds. I was working on something like this ( more just for myself than making it for everyone else) Good job on thinking of your fellow mamers, but there is only 1 problem.
Unfortunatly, it is a very big problem (which is why I gave up on it)  The only buttons that I could get any light to shine through was the white player buttons.  I used 12 candleras high intensity super bright lights ( The highest candleras that I could find at Fry's) I even used a decade resistor box that went from 1omh to infinite with a variable 6 amp power supply trying to see if I could get some light to shine through. I even went as far as to turn out all the lights and work with just a red lamp to see what it would take to get some light to shine through. I eventually burnt out all the led's. I tried it on white, orange, yellow, red, blue and black happs horizontal buttons.  The white buttons lit up pretty well but I could only get a very faint with the yellows and absolutly nothing with the other colors. I've even thought about thinning out the plastic some way but have not done it.  So someone come up with a way and I'm all for it.

By the way Here is a really good place for a usb chip.
http://www.delcom-eng.com/products_USBIO.asp#USBIOKITS
controls 16 I/O and is only 8 dollars for the chip itself.
The site even includes a DLL with source code for controlling the chip in C++ and VB and a few others.  This is what I was going to use.


My program was a VB front end for an access database that intercepted what the name of the game was and then parsed the database for the led configuration for that game..

Not trying to put a damped on anything. Maybe someone knows how to get them little buggers to show some light better than I do.


Valence  

[DinoRoger]

OK Im going to try and answer all the questions above in this post, but please keep bringing them.

I like this idea.  How about an option for blinking or alternate/blinking lights?

I can write a WIN32 program that can apply timer and blinks to the LED's and even design it to execute with a screen saver.  Unfortantly this will not work for the DOS users.

think going USB would be better than serial though.  Im suprised that motherboards still have serial ports on them... and surely they will probably dissapear someday.

Serial may be the best method because it will allow the hardware to function for both DOS and Windows users.  If your PC does not have a serial port you can purchase a USB to serial adapter fairly cheap these days.  Windows will mimic this as a regual serial port so the program should still function.

I might have missed this while excitedly reading through, but can you test which LED is which? Like you click on the icons of each of the LEDs and the LED in the cabinet blinks or lights up?

Yes the program will actualy active a LED every time a check box is clicked.  This way it makes it easy to create a batch file and perform diagnostics.

What about the pure DOS users ? Could the executable run in pure DOS?

Yes, the program I displayed will only function in Windows but the batch file and LED ON/OFF application will function at a DOS level.

When you exit a game will the lights go back off or would you have to run another game to reset them?

Currently this will be dependent on your front end.  I beleive there again GLAUNCH allows an execution of a file before and after loading the rom.  So you can execute another batch file after the game has exited.  Somthing to consider to all the FE creators when desiging features.

So would you need to create a batch file for each individual game? Or, say, 6 different batch files by the number of buttons?  (like, 1button.bat 2button.bat 3button.bat etc..)  And so how would you go from a game that uses 3 buttons to a game that uses 6?  Would that be a front-end implementation to figure out which batch file to call before launching the game?

There should be only so many combinations of button layouts.  I was thinking about a dozen different layouts but the possibilites are endless.  Just need to write as many batch files that will be needed.  The front end will decide what batch file will get launched.  If I have time I will try creating my own FE soon.  I may ask the community to help later with batch file creations.  I would like to embed a universal mame feature into the app where you specify your layout and the program spits all every batch file for every current mame game.

Oh yeah, will this only be in 'kit' form or will you release the software, as well?

Because of the compleity of the program/hardware allot of my creation will be propritairy.  Meaning I would need to sell the hardware and software as a package.  I'm not trying to do this to make money but you understand its not free.  I will be lookign around after getting my proto type built for a sells partner.  Maybe even include it in already built CP's.  We will see!

How about us big 4 player control panel users which have 4 start, 4 credit, 26 player buttons   .  Will your program be able to handle all those?  Will the hardware be able to support that many outputs?

The method I am using will allow the hardware to be daisy chained.  Each piece of hardware will allow 14 LED's to be lit.  32 led boards can be plugged together to equal a possible combination of 448 led's.  Wow light the entire house with that.

Not trying to put a damped on anything. Maybe someone knows how to get them little buggers to show some light better than I do.

I just started on this project today but believe I can find a good combination of power/led/brightness.  Once I am finished I will have recomendations of different LED's and button color combinations.  Worse case scenerio I cant get it to work you can use the leds to light up a drawing of your CP and mouse it somewhere on your bezel or CP to show what buttons are active.  I am sure it wont come to this but its my plan B if the worst happens.

[SirPoonga]

Hey, if controls.dat happensand FEs use it it would be really easy then to incorporate something simular to this.

[)p(]

Ah that is great...I never bothered with the leds before because the current way mame handle's was just not flexible enough for what I wanted...

Wanted to show you something I am working on that may be of interest.  I am working on hardware/software that will control LED lights for arcade buttons.  The software will generate a batch file that will turn on/off a series of LED's.  Some MAME front ends have the capability to execute an application before running the rom.

luckily mine is one of them...so I only need to work on my cab again...uhm I have not changed anything in years to my cab...so I might become a real byoac again soon againthanks to you  

peter

[Carsten Carlos]

Love to see that this idea finally becomes alive!

Worse case scenerio I cant get it to work you can use the leds to light up a drawing of your CP

Very cool idea, might work, I really have to experiment with this! Would also add a touch of pinball-simulation, which I really began to enjoy with.

As I go with leaf-buttons now, I got out of the whole LED-buttons-idea. (No, I don't wanna have the actionsbuttons with translucent leaf buttons) The interface I use has already the capability to light LED's, though I use it now only for motor rotation and coindoor lights.

[ErikRuud]

Valence,

I have had no problem lighting up Happs buttons with leds. Check my Illuminated buttons page and you will see that I was able to light a red button, and I wasn't even using the brightest LEDs.  As far as I know, black buttons cannot be lit.

[DinoRoger]

Well did some brain storming yesterday and I can show everyone how to perform an * LED light control system without hardly any hardware.  Using the parrallel port alone I can power 8 LED's.  This weekend I hope to write up easy how to create the 8 LED point hardware using very little hardware or know how.  If you think about it 8 LED's is enough for most projects.  You will never need 8 or more than 8 buttons per player.  For example you light up the firece punch button on Street Fighter for player 1.  The same control for that button can also be used for Player 2.  If you have a 4 player CP each player will be using the same LED control for each button.  I will also write the software for this process and release it.  I will try and post some diagrams so you have something to drewl over until then.

I am still going to continue to work on the hardware that will allow up to 448 LED's but this will be somthing I believe I can get out to the community very fast.

[ErikRuud]

GameLauncher does inded have the ability to run a command both before and after launching a game. That command can be a bat file. However, the pre and post commands are set for each emulator, not each rom. So you cannot use the pre and post commnads to run .bat files for each rom.

What you can do is run each of your roms from .bat files.

I do this already on my cab.  Because I am running two other emulators, one of wich does not allow re-assigning the keys(O2Em), I wanted to be able to load different configurations to my IPac. I have an IPac config for Mame, GameLauncher, Retrocade, and O2Em. So I set up .bat files that load the IPac config, launch the rom, and then load the config for GameLauncher. It would be easy to add another step to these .bat files for the LED system.

I originally set up all these .bat files before David added the pre and post command option.

[Frostillicus]

Because of the compleity of the program/hardware allot of my creation will be propritairy.  Meaning I would need to sell the hardware and software as a package.  I'm not trying to do this to make money but you understand its not free.  I will be lookign around after getting my proto type built for a sells partner.  Maybe even include it in already built CP's.  We will see!

I'm not trying to sound cheap, but I like to do as much stuff by myself as possible (it's so much more fun!).  I want to compare this to those winamp plugins where you download a driver, build a circuit, and control winamp with a serial 'remote control' on your desktop.  Similar to yours? Or are you planning on using programmed chips or something?  
Also, I have to use Direct I/O to get my laserdisc player to work with daphne (WinXP), do you predict your LED project might have the same problem communicating with ports in XP?

[DinoRoger]

I'm not trying to sound cheap, but I like to do as much stuff by myself as possible (it's so much more fun!).  I want to compare this to those winamp plugins where you download a driver, build a circuit, and control winamp with a serial 'remote control' on your desktop.  Similar to yours? Or are you planning on using programmed chips or something?  
Also, I have to use Direct I/O to get my laserdisc player to work with daphne (WinXP), do you predict your LED project might have the same problem communicating with ports in XP?

I will be releasing two version.  The freebie software and how-to hack the parallel port to control 8 led controls.  There again 8 should be plenty.  For example for Street Fighter 2 you need to light up the punch button.  You will use the same control for punch for the other players also.

The other version I release will be a programmed circuit and can control hundreds of LEDs independently.

I am designing the software/hardware to function both in DOS and Windows Operating Systems (Includin XP because that is what I run).

[Carsten Carlos]

Check my Illuminated buttons page and you will see that I was able to light a red button, and I wasn't even using the brightest LEDs.  As far as I know, black buttons cannot be lit.

Yep, but it seems that this were all of the most suited colors. Quite some time ago, but I tried blue and green (and black, but of course this didn't work), and they did lit up very very little, even with superbright ones. Maybe orange and yellow will work, too?

[Wienerdog]

I will be releasing two version.  The freebie software and how-to hack the parallel port to control 8 led controls.  There again 8 should be plenty.  For example for Street Fighter 2 you need to light up the punch button.  You will use the same control for punch for the other players also.

The other version I release will be a programmed circuit and can control hundreds of LEDs independently.

I am designing the software/hardware to function both in DOS and Windows Operating Systems (Includin XP because that is what I run).

You're a good man DR.  I can't wait to see your work.  I think you have the right approach to this project.  I PMed you earlier, but I think you've said everything in this thread.

I know that the type/color of buttons may be limited, but I think this is a cool idea.

[CitznFish]

or for the whopping price of $1.00 - 1.49 per button people can switch to the translucent version.

[Tekkie]

Interesting idea.  Perhaps 2- and 3-color LEDs could even be used (with white buttons) to indicate particular functions.  I've done some tinkering with adding LEDs to Happ player start buttons.  Check out my journal at http://rjg.dyndns.org/mame for more info.


Russ.

[jrshenk]

I think your idea is great and that this Idea could be carried a step further. I have been playing around with making an electric actuator to switch a joystick, like ultimarc's T-Stick, E-Stick or J-stick, between 4-and 8-way modes. Once I get a good actuator scheme it should be pretty easy to use the same batch files and one of the outputs from your LED board to control the actuator's control circuit. This way you would have the correct buttons light up and the joystick would be in the correct opperating mode for each game.

[DinoRoger]

I will look into this idea.  Currently I only have 8 or 4 way joysticks, but will purchase a switchable one soon.  Any recommendations on which one is the best purchase to attempt this?

[shmokes]

I think you should get the E-stick so you can consider making it change between regular and diagonal (q-bert, congo bongo) as well as between 4-way & 8-way.

[Xiaou2]

 On the note of Selenoids (actuators)... I think it would be great if someone could make and sell a Terminator2  and other gun Kickback coil system.

 

[jrshenk]

shmokes, The only problem with changing from regular to diagional with the E-Stick is that the whole joystick assembly must be rotated by 45 degrees not just the restrictor plate cam. Since the E-Stick uses a threaded body, similar to the way a button to mounts, the nut can be loosened and the assembly rotated. That is why it says the "switch plate" can be rotated for games like Qbert. But this process of loosening the nut and rotating the whole joystick then retightening the nut is not very easy to automate. To change from 4-way to 8-way we only have to rotate the cam on the back of the switch plate. Happ controls makes a joy stick alomost identical to the E-Stick. Happ calls it the universal and they have an exploited view on their website. You can get a better idea of what I mean from looking at that drawing.

[1UP]

This is a great idea!  However, I can think of a way you'd need more than 8 LEDs: Space Invaders and Asteroids.  Both these games use buttons rather than a joystick for directional controls, and the buttons are used by both hands.  Asteroids uses the player 1 buttons for left and right, and the player 2 buttons for thrust, fire, and hyperspace.  So you might want at least 12 independent LEDs.

As for a T2 recoil output solution, I'm still working on it!  

shmokes, The only problem with changing from regular to diagional with the E-Stick is that the whole joystick assembly must be rotated by 45 degrees not just the restrictor plate cam. Since the E-Stick uses a threaded body, similar to the way a button to mounts, the nut can be loosened and the assembly rotated. That is why it says the "switch plate" can be rotated for games like Qbert.

I think we're getting confused here again...although it's possible to do so, the E-stick DOES NOT have to be externally rotated, and the mounting ring does NOT have to be loosened to go from straight to diagonal!!!  In fact, it was not designed that way at all.  Anyone who has an e-stick can check this out.  Try this: grasp the top mounting plate FIRMLY, and twist the bottom switch plate (the whole thing, not just the restrictor plate dummy.)  Whadya know? it rotates about 45 degrees!  I cant believe that everyone with an e-stick still doesn't know how it's supposed to work...  

Look at what you just wrote: "That is why it says the "switch plate" can be rotated for games like Qbert."  Yes, the SWITCH PLATE, not the MOUNTING PLATE.  The switch plate is the plate with the microswitches on it, on the bottom of the whole joystick assembly; in other words, it's the plate that the restrictor plate itself is mounted on.  It is not the plate that mounts above the CP -- this mounting plate is intended to stay locked tight to the CP at all times.  Note the mounting hole pictured at the bottom of the diagram above.  The hole has two small notches to either side.  These are obviously intended to mate with the two round protrusions on either side of the e-stick's threaded shaft, thus keeping the stick locked in place.  The switch plate, however, is mounted on the threaded shaft in such a way that it can be rotated around the shaft from below, like so:

So it would be quite possible to have a system of automatically switching straight to diagonal by some kind of motor etc, while the joystick remains securely mounted to the CP.  It may be harder to come up with a system of automatically switching both the switchplate AND the restrictor plate independently though....

[Valence]

I have had no problem lighting up Happs buttons with leds. Check my Illuminated buttons page and you will see that I was able to light a red button, and I wasn't even using the brightest LEDs.  As far as I know, black buttons cannot be lit.

I did visit you site a few times. My buttons look completely different than your buttons.  The bottom of the inside of my buttons are all the way down by the micro switch. Not at the button base lip like yours. I remember going to a web site that was also dealing with lighting them and it said that happs was shipping a new kind of button that was different than
they used to sell that had thicker plastic. His demo of lighting the buttons was the same type as yours. He also went on to say that  his design should work on the new buttons also. But it doesn't.

I'm all for lighting them up. I'm all for someone figuring out how to do it well on these "new" buttons.  I'm busy fiber glassing right now and haven't
spent the time I need to get it going. I know it's going to involve reducing the thickness though. But thats what my dremel is for.  

[Malachai]

Here's some buttons that may work great for this!

http://www.sunbetty.com.tw/products_disp.asp?cat=1

They look like normal pushbuttons with clear/colored centers.  They don't come with lamps or switches .  I wish this site had some pricing.

[b3atmania]

shmokes, The only problem with changing from regular to diagional with the E-Stick is that the whole joystick assembly must be rotated by 45 degrees not just the restrictor plate cam. Since the E-Stick uses a threaded body, similar to the way a button to mounts, the nut can be loosened and the assembly rotated. That is why it says the "switch plate" can be rotated for games like Qbert.

Look at what you just wrote: "That is why it says the "switch plate" can be rotated for games like Qbert."  Yes, the SWITCH PLATE, not the MOUNTING PLATE.  The switch plate is the plate with the microswitches on it, on the bottom of the whole joystick assembly; in other words, it's the plate that the restrictor plate itself is mounted on.  It is not the plate that mounts above the CP -- this mounting plate is intended to stay locked tight to the CP at all times.  Note the mounting hole pictured at the bottom of the diagram above.  The hole has two small notches to either side.  These are obviously intended to mate with the two round protrusions on either side of the e-stick's threaded shaft, thus keeping the stick locked in place.  The switch plate, however, is mounted on the threaded shaft in such a way that it can be rotated around the shaft from below, like so:

So it would be quite possible to have a system of automatically switching straight to diagonal by some kind of motor etc, while the joystick remains securely mounted to the CP.  It may be harder to come up with a system of automatically switching both the switchplate AND the restrictor plate independently though....

Getting a precise 45 degrees twist is difficult. You can turn it more than 45 degrees... And if you dont turn it al the way through the end of the tread it will not be fastened securely.

I have had many occassion where the 45 degrees shifted position was dislocated slighty. And the following is even worse: in non-diagonal mode (0 degrees) there not much holding the switch plate. It will fall off if you smash a button on the control panel, which happens a lot in frantic Street Fighter II matches.

Unless you are prepared to superglue the switchplate it will not hold into position. Its use as a switchable diagonal/orthogonal stick is therefore exaggerated.