soldering iron help

[atarihomestar]

I ordered a KeyWiz Eco 2 from GroovyGameGear yesterday.  I got the version where I need to do some soldering.  Thing is, I don’t have a soldering iron.  So the question is, which one should I get, and why?  I read where one guy got one for about 5 bucks from Radio Shack.  What are the downsides to a cheap soldering iron like that?  I saved 15 bucks by getting the version of KeyWiz that I have to solder, so I would love it if I could spend about 15, and then figure that I got a soldering iron out of the deal, but not if it’s a piece of junk.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[HaRuMaN]

I ordered a KeyWiz Eco 2 from GroovyGameGear yesterday.  I got the version where I need to do some soldering.  Thing is, I don’t have a soldering iron.  So the question is, which one should I get, and why?  I read where one guy got one for about 5 bucks from Radio Shack.  What are the downsides to a cheap soldering iron like that?  I saved 15 bucks by getting the version of KeyWiz that I have to solder, so I would love it if I could spend about 15, and then figure that I got a soldering iron out of the deal, but not if it’s a piece of junk.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I use the 30-Watt soldering iron from Radio Shack, it works perfectly fine, and I use it for some detail work (like Xbox 360 controller hacks).  I'm going to buy a soldering station everntually, but the one I have now has served me well (I've hacked A LOT of controllers for people here).

[shardian]

You can do what you need to do with a simple pencil iron, but you have to work fast and be very careful. I also always hit the wet sponge with the tip before going to work to cool things off a bit. Also, at least get a stand for your iron.

And lastly, do not wire your controls directly to the encoder. Solder in 6" pieces of wire with shielded quick disconnects on the end to the encoder. In reality though, it is worth the extra 2 or 3 bucks to get the encoder with headers already installed.

[atarihomestar]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

You have convinced me to just get some cheap soldering iron.  I found a 15-Watt Soldering Iron with Grounded Tip from Radio Shack for $8.99 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062728&cp=&parentPage=search) I think I'll probably go with that one.  It sounds like the stand that comes with it blows, so I'm going to get a holder (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062740&cp) for $7.99 so it will end up being just a little more expensive than getting the non-solder version.  But that's okay, I figure I'll need to solder something else sometime.

shardian:  I'm quite new to all this, so sorry if this makes me sound pretty stupid.  Is the whole "Solder in 6" pieces of wire with shielded quick disconnects on the end to the encoder" business so that if I ever need to change a joystick or something, I don't have to un-solder the wire? 

I've googled shielded quick disconnect, and I'm not seeing much relevant info.  Where can I get those?

Thanks again!

[More Cowbell]

I've used those Eco Wizzes numerous times and I think they're great. Once you get the hang of soldering them, it takes about 5 minutes to do and you have it wired exactly as you need it. I have a cheap Radio Shaq iron as well and it works just fine for that small job.

[shardian]

shardian:  I'm quite new to all this, so sorry if this makes me sound pretty stupid.  Is the whole "Solder in 6" pieces of wire with shielded quick disconnects on the end to the encoder" business so that if I ever need to change a joystick or something, I don't have to un-solder the wire? 

Basically, yes. It just gives you the flexibility that if you need to switch around some wires, or remove the encoder for some reason you can do it with minimal work.

As to quick disconnects, I have bought shielded quick disconnects at Advance Auto before. Basically, you need a set of female quick disconnects, and some male quick disconnects. You can put male or female on the encoder wires - it is up to you.
You can buy the female quick disconnects from vendors such as groovy game gear. You'll need them for your wiring anyways. Male spade terminals (male quick disconnects) are more readily available in the real world for some odd reason. I don't think GGG carries the male terminals.

[atarihomestar]

More Cowbell:  Great name, by the way.  That was an hilarious SNL skit.  And knowing that you've used the same things I'm thinking of using, and that you liked them, makes it a whole lot easier to use.

Shardian: What gauge wire do you use? I could be wrong, but it seems like Knievel uses thicker wire, so he can bend it and it'll stay where he wants it.  Is there a disadvantage to that? 

Thanks again, this is really a great forum.  I started a thread in the project announcements a week or so ago, so I'll be posting pictures of how I solder this stuff as soon as possible, so hopefully I can give back to this forum.

[shardian]

Shardian: What gauge wire do you use? I could be wrong, but it seems like Knievel uses thicker wire, so he can bend it and it'll stay where he wants it.  Is there a disadvantage to that? 

I usually use whatever I grab first out of my scrap bag.

What you most likely want to use is light gauge (18-20)stranded wire. Solid core tends to break if you bend it too much.
Old pc power supplies usually are great places to scavenge multi colored wire that is good to use.

[atarihomestar]

Sherdian: Great idea to use the old PC power supply wire.  All totalled, I've probably got about 1000 feet of that stuff. :-)

Is this right?

  Stranded wire benefits: doesn't break easily
  Stranded wire drawbacks: doesn't stay put

  Solid core benefits: stays put
  Solid core drawbacks: breaks easily

[More Cowbell]

The only thing I would caution you on with the stranded wire is that it is a bit more of a pain to work with when soldering to the keywizzes. The solid core 18 guage plugs right into the holes and can be soldered quickly and easily. I've never had a problem with it breaking before despite much moving around.

[atarihomestar]

The only thing I would caution you on with the stranded wire is that it is a bit more of a pain to work with when soldering to the keywizzes. The solid core 18 guage plugs right into the holes and can be soldered quickly and easily. I've never had a problem with it breaking before despite much moving around.

Good to know. 

Another question. (Man, I am full of questions today.  I'm just glad that there are people out there full of answers.) I soldered some stuff in Jr. High School.  That was about 25 years ago.  I can't quite recall how I did it. But I think the idea is to put the wire through the hole I'm soldering to, then get it hot with the soldering iron, and then put the solder onto the iron.  How much solder will get used for each wire?  Like 1/8 inch? 

Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to screw this up, and it sounds like you all know what you're doing.

[More Cowbell]

Yeah, put the wire through the top of the card and solder on the bottom. You'll probably use a little more than 1/8", it depends on the solder. Hold the iron close to the wire and touch the solder to the tip of the iron. It will melt and stick to the iron and you can then touch the glob to the wire. It should come off onto the wire and surrounding hole. Use a little at a time, you can always add more. Give the wire a tug and if it stays in place, you're golden. Each one gets easier. Keep asking the questions, no one likes to screw up something they paid hard earned $$$ for.

[atarihomestar]

Thanks More Cowbell, I'm going to Radio Shack tonight to get the soldering iron, then I just have to wait for my shipment to come in from GroovyGameGear (it shipped today.)

[knave]

I thought that for most gereral use we should use a 30W iron.  Is this true? or is a 15W ok?

[HaRuMaN]

I thought that for most gereral use we should use a 30W iron.  Is this true? or is a 15W ok?

I use 30 W for everything I do.

[Ed_McCarron]

Hold the iron close to the wire and touch the solder to the tip of the iron. It will melt and stick to the iron and you can then touch the glob to the wire. It should come off onto the wire and surrounding hole.

This may work, but its not the ideal way.

Tin your iron - flow solder onto it like CB suggests.  Wipe it clean.

Hold the iron so that it touches the wire and the PCB at the same time.  Apply solder to the connection - the side away from the iron.

It'll flow towards the heat and wick into the void spaces.

Take away the iron and hold the connection steady for a few seconds.

Theres tons of techniques.  Practice a bit and use what works for you.

[shardian]

Put a very small dab of flux on the connection, then heat it up. Now touch the wire with the soldering iron and apply solder where the solder pad of the board and the wire touches. It should spread around the pad quickly and make a real nice and pretty connection.

[bigh4th]

You guys have had better luck with those pencil irons than I ever have.  I've only gotten 2-3 uses out of them and they crap out.  They also take forever, IMHO.

My girlfriends grandfather gave me a nice WEN soldering gun (trigger) and heats up fast and solders like a dream.  Its a 25-450 watt gun (depending on tip) with a nifty little light.  He got it back when they (wen) were still made in america.  The copyright on the manual says 1978.

I don't even know how much soldering guns cost nowdays but if you're gonna do a lot of soldering (it is a nice skill to know), then i would suggest a gun instead of the pencil irons.  But thats just me.

-Harry

[shardian]

You guys have had better luck with those pencil irons than I ever have.  I've only gotten 2-3 uses out of them and they crap out.  They also take forever, IMHO.

Heh, it took me many failed solder connections, and MANY burned fingers before I developed a good technique.
Back in college, I had to use a super crappy pencil iron to put together a 5v power supply kit. I ended up burning my fingers 4 times. And let me tell you, a burn from an 800 degree iron doesn't stop hurting very quickly.

[HaRuMaN]

I would definately avoid the guns.  They heat up TOO quickly, and will damage components on your PCB's if you're not extremely careful.  The 30 W pencil iron from Radio Shack heats up quickly and holds a constant steady heat.  I've had the same iron now for 3 years.  I have to replace the tips every now and then, but they're pretty cheap.

[shardian]

The simple soldering irons are useful for quick and dirty board work - reflowing, and soldering wires not near any components.

Having had experience now with a true soldering station, I will never get my pencil iron anywhere near my pin boards. You can ruin a board in a hurry with an uncontrolled iron. It doesn't take much to lift a trace or pad with too much heat.

[Kaytrim]

One other thing about soldering irons.  DO NOT GET the COLDHEAT iron.  You could fry the sensitive components and not even be near them.  This iron uses electricity to heat up the metal you touch.  That current could go through the entire circuit and short out anything.  I have actually lit a LED with this thing.  The tips are fragile and expensive, not worth the time or money.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[atarihomestar]

So what is the difference between a 15 watt soldering iron and a 30 watt?  And don't say "15 watts" :-) Does the 30 watt heat up faster?  Does it get hotter? It seems like I've read that you don't want much more than 30 watts for doing this sort of work. 

Kaytrim - Yeah, I've read that about the ColdHeat iron.  Too bad, it sounds pretty cool.

So do you use the flux everytime you solder a connection?

[HaRuMaN]

So what is the difference between a 15 watt soldering iron and a 30 watt?  And don't say "15 watts" :-) Does the 30 watt heat up faster?  Does it get hotter? It seems like I've read that you don't want much more than 30 watts for doing this sort of work. 

Kaytrim - Yeah, I've read that about the ColdHeat iron.  Too bad, it sounds pretty cool.

So do you use the flux everytime you solder a connection?

30 W = more power = more heat
Just buy solder with a flux core, you won't need to buy separate flux.

[shardian]

So what is the difference between a 15 watt soldering iron and a 30 watt?  And don't say "15 watts" :-) Does the 30 watt heat up faster?  Does it get hotter? It seems like I've read that you don't want much more than 30 watts for doing this sort of work. 

Kaytrim - Yeah, I've read that about the ColdHeat iron.  Too bad, it sounds pretty cool.

So do you use the flux everytime you solder a connection?

A watt is a measure power. P=IV . The voltage is set, so the 30 watt iron will draw more current than a 15 watt iron. All of that power is turned directly into heat.

And to be fair about flux, I do most of my soldering on dirty old boards. The flux cleans the pads right up and makes it super easy to get a good bond, and the solder flows WAY better - oh and heat conducts better from the iron too.  I've gotten to where I use it on all connections now regardless.

[atarihomestar]

So 30 watts can get hotter than 15 watts, but for soldering some wires to the KeyWiz, 15 watts is enough, right?  I guess I'll look at the 30 watt model at Radio Shack, and if it's not much more, I'll get that one.

[DaOld Man]

Ive used the all powerful gun on very small solder spots before. You just have to be careful with a high heat device. Since you are not experienced, I would suggest you use the low heat pencil (though I think the 30 watt is fine) and take your time.
And it wouldnt hurt a bit to practice on some scrap wire or even a junk circuit board a few times before going to the piece you have money invested in.
Also, search the web for soldering tutorials, Im sure there is tons of info out there.
Im not sure how i did all my misadventures when I started out. No internet.  No one else in the family knew anything about my crazy hobby. I think it was a lot of trips to the library, and I remember slipping out the side door cause back then going to the library wasnt cool at all.
LOL, not only were us kids cruel to each other back then, we were pretty stupid too. And my hobby was not one that won friends and influenced the girls. But it was and still is a very rewarding hobby, and the things I learned are netting a pretty good paycheck for me now.
(Take that you stupid bullies!)
 

[shardian]

I think it was a lot of trips to the library, and I remember slipping out the side door cause back then going to the library wasnt cool at all.
LOL, not only were us kids cruel to each other back then, we were pretty stupid too. And my hobby was not one that won friends and influenced the girls. But it was and still is a very rewarding hobby, and the things I learned are netting a pretty good paycheck for me now.
(Take that you stupid bullies!)
 

Our library was near the pool, so a certain group of punks always made it a priority to stop by the library and let the air out of the tires of anyones bike parked there. They got me once and as I was getting ready to leave I saw them taking my water bottle. In a moment of rage, I ran out the door after them and they took off. Luckily for me, they weren't real bullies or I would've gotten my butt kicked royally.

[atarihomestar]

I got my KeyWiz in the mail on Saturday.  It's the EZ-Solder model.  I want to make a test control panel.  Can I solder to the KeyWiz, and then can I "un-solder" the KeyWiz, so I can use it with my real control panel?  If so, is there a trick to it?  It'd seem like I can just heat up the solder, and take out the wire.  but then that will leave some solder on the board, it seems.

Help?

[knave]

What you might want to do is solder six inch wires to the keywiz and then add some qhick disconects or a terminal strip to the ends.  that way you can use it for as many things as you want in the future by disconnecting the connectors. And only solder once. 

[shardian]

I got my KeyWiz in the mail on Saturday.  It's the EZ-Solder model.  I want to make a test control panel.  Can I solder to the KeyWiz, and then can I "un-solder" the KeyWiz, so I can use it with my real control panel?  If so, is there a trick to it?  It'd seem like I can just heat up the solder, and take out the wire.  but then that will leave some solder on the board, it seems.

Help?

By heating up the wire and removing, you'll make a mess with solder plus you create the possibilty of tearing up the solder lugs. Always desolder properly - either with a desoldering iron, a soldapult, or desoldering braid. I personally prefer the braid...but the solapult is really fun to use.

[HaRuMaN]

What is a soldapult?  I use a solder sucker or the braid.

[ChadTower]

Solder sucker = soldapult.

[atarihomestar]

Looks like the De-soldering Braid is the cheapest, and probably easiest to use way to desolder, (but not the funnest) so I'll go with that one. 

So my Radio Shack shopping list is:
  30 watt pencil style soldering iron
  Soldering iron stand
  De-soldering braid
  Solder

Radio Shack lists a bunch of different types of solder.  Do I just want the Clear Flux Solder?  There's also rosin based and silver-bearing.

Oh, and thanks again guys.  I really have no idea what I'm doing, so without you I wouldn't be doing anything.
If it ends up that I actually end up with a working MAME machine, I'll owe it all to you guys on this forum.

[HaRuMaN]

Oh, and thanks again guys.  I really have no idea what I'm doing, so without you I wouldn't be doing anything.
If it ends up that I actually end up with a working MAME machine, I'll owe it all to you guys on this forum.

I take donations... my PayPal address is...  j/k, lol

It's a fun hobby.

[shardian]

You want rosin core solder, the smallest diameter they have - I believe it is .032" or somthing like that.

[More Cowbell]

What you might want to do is solder six inch wires to the keywiz and then add some qhick disconects or a terminal strip to the ends.  that way you can use it for as many things as you want in the future by disconnecting the connectors. And only solder once. 

From experience, I would say definitely do it this way. I do this right from the get-go using only the holes I plan on needing for that particular cabinet. This allows you to solder in the comfort of your kitchen table and do all the wiring later.

[DaOld Man]

I agree.
Solder 6" wires to it, then use wire nuts (twisty plastic caps that connect wires together), to temporarily wire then unwire with.
Radio shack has the wire nuts too. Get small ones, grey or blue.
I would not try to unsolder the keywiz, you take a chance of shorting the contacts with solder, or ruining the board by lifting a trace, plus you will have to solder the new wires all over again, but hey, if you feel like you can do it, go for it.
You can always solder the new wires to the 6" ones, then use heat shrink to cover the joints on your permanent installation. Heat shrink looks pretty neat.

[knave]

Incidently I've been using some very cheap irons.  So I decided to upgrade to a nice 30w pencil iron from RS.  Now on the cheep irons I could never really "tin" the tip properly as solder would not stick to it.  I'm not at home to try it but the tip on the Radio shack Iron sure looks like the shiny metal like the other cheap irons.

Is there some trick to tinning the Radio shack Soldering Irons?

[MonMotha]

That's hardly an upgrade...  If you spent less than $10, you have a pretty minimal soldering iron.  They're OK for quick one-off jobs and infrequent usage, but if you actually plan on using the thing frequently, get a decent one.  I'm a fan of Weller simply because the tips are readily available and work well, but you can get full digital temp controlled setups from no-name brands online for like $50-75.

As for tinning the tip of cheap irons, there's a fair bit of patience and luck involved.  Let it get good and toasty, at least 325 celcius (which you can't measure easily, but oh well), then flow some solder onto it.  Most won't stick.  Wipe it off on a damp (not wet) sponge, let it heat up a little again, then repeat, working your way around the tip using the edge of what "took" the last time.  With luck, you'll get most of the tip tinned.  If you're unlucky, the flux will eat away the tip too badly before it actually takes and you'll have to start over with a new tip.  The Radio Shack tips tend to at least work reasonably if you're patient, while the really cheap ones never seem to take.

Radio Shack does have a tip cleaner/tinner product that I'm told works well.  Only use this stuff on the cheap steel tips, though.  Higher end tips like those used by Weller and Metcal are coated in a separate metal layer that will immediately take solder well, and tip cleaner (chemical or mechanical) can destroy that.