New Product: Micro-Leaf™ Arcade Pushbutton Switches - GroovyGameGear

[RandyT]

Hehe, and begginers will buy these all leaf products and next throw to trash because ... where is leaf?

The percentage of people using leaf buttons is in the single digits compared to those who are using the clicky, full-size microswitches.  This group of "beginners" you speak of exists only in your imagination.  And next to the average microswitch, they will find these a blessing.

Where? You don't know? Leaf is in seller's money bag 

Very clever.   

RandyT

[bfauska]

I usually try to be supportive of people who have learned to use more than one language, but it does seem odd that before mastering a language that is foreign to them, they would try to enforce some elevated level of product descriptions and naming in that language.  Then, when shown dictionary definitions exemplifying that the word in question is being used the exact same way in both item names, claim that "common" usage of the word should hold precedent.

Other than the fact that it is a micro-switch actuated by a leaf of metal (which should be enough to justify the name) it is also a micro-switch with leaf like tendencies. 

If somebody "knows" that leaf-switches are better than micros and buys these on accident, then maybe the only reason they "knew" in the first place was because they had read the one-sided-blind-praise of the overzealous and never done any worthwhile research on the appearance, size, or operation of leaf-switches in the first place.  Those people are not going to make a well informed decision no matter what the product description says, or what the photo shows.  Randy's description and photo clearly show what the product is, in fact it shows it well enough that somebody has found a nearly identical component of Randy's product from another supplier.  Nobody but Randy has any of these switches in-hand yet, but somehow the whole thread is filled with the knowledge of the fact that these are not leaf-switches, clearly that information was gleaned from the product description and photo's, SO HOW ARE THEY MISLEADING?

GTFOI and STFU.  Seriously.

[2600]

FYI, we have used the term Microleaf at BYOAC before with no problems before.  The Wico Microleaf joystick is the microswitch version of the Wico Leaf joystick with the rubber grommet. 

[Level42]

Other than the fact that it is a micro-switch actuated by a leaf of metal (which should be enough to justify the name).... 

Hey look: A whole page of leaf switches !


Come'on let's be serious. This NOT a leaf switch and it should NOT be called a leaf switch.

That's the last I say about that, as I am much more interested in the product itself than it's name. Bottom line is that Randy has come up with a range of great products for us. And I hope this kind of discussion won't discourage him. So he made a "less fortunate" decision on naming this. Let's move on and judge the product FROM EXPERIENCE.

Patrick...maak je niet zo druk over een naam...relax  

[Kremmit]

Uggh.  I can't believe I let myself get sucked into such a stupid discussion internet ego battle.  I blame last night's beers.

I quit.  This is dumb and I'm embarrassed to have even been involved.

[bfauska]

Hey look: A whole page of leaf switches !

Or what I may call a  whole page of Leaf actuated micro-switches.  I'd prefer that when I am quoted the response has something more direct to do with my post.  I didn't say they were leaf-switches I said they were micro-switches that used a leaf to trigger them.  As such, I would consider it fair play to call these Micro-leaf switches too.  I suppose the problem is that the word leaf is directly followed by the word switch.  Maybe Leaf-Micro switch would be more appropriate, but then the word leaf is first so clearly the insinuation is that it is a leaf switch.  If people could get over their no-hands-on speculative engineering and realize that the name is about the performance as much or more than it is about the mechanics maybe we'd reach a truce.

I don't know if you all realize this or not, but there is not, in fact, a wizard locked away in all of those LED, GP, and Key Wiz products out there, yet their performance seems that way sometimes.  No leaf-switch in the Micro Leaf, but it is supposed to behave more like there is than other micro-switch options.

[jcoleman]

Please, everyone read the following

http://bloggingexperiment.com/archives/the-art-of-ewar.php

before continuing this asinine thread derailment.

Coleman

PS Yes I have learned my lesson.

[patrickl]

Patrick...maak je niet zo druk over een naam...relax  

I'm relaxed. It's not even the name itself. That warrants maybe a quick quip (as exactly how this started) It's more the BS to turn the blame on the people who question the name that keeps me involved.

For instance, when he blames the "confusion" on peoples "poor command of the English language" is just too weak. In the catalog he orders these switches from, they are called Sub-Miniature Lever Microswitch. Then he bolts a piece of plastic on it and all of a sudden it's a micro-leaf switch?

Don't give us the BS. Just take the shame and be done with it. At the very least get off your high horse and accept that you will be called out on an obvious ploys like this.

How many people read the title and assumed it was actually about micro leaf switches (as in small leaf switches)? ie a small version of a Leafswitch + Bracket that Ponyboy sells.

[Chris]

Personally, I'm glad it's not the same... after spending all weekend troubleshooting and adjusting leaf switches in an old pinball machine I'll be perfectly happy to never see a real leaf again.

[ringram]

What's in a name?

At the end of the day, it's just a name. The bottom line is, is it a good product? Is it worth what you paid for it?

I'm not going to enter into the argument of these being equal to leaf switches, of if the name is mis-leading or not (many examples of that in marketing). My question is, does anybody actually have any of these yet? Have you had a chance to use them for a while? How do they compare to "regular old switches"?

[Chris]

My question is, does anybody actually have any of these yet? Have you had a chance to use them for a while? How do they compare to "regular old switches"?

And just who do you think you are asking a reasonable, appropriate question on this thread?  The nerve of some people.

[RandyT]

FYI, we have used the term Microleaf at BYOAC before with no problems before.

"Are you, or were you ever, a member of LSNAP, AKA The Leaf-Switch Name Abuse Party?"

Names, man!  We need NAMES!!!

 

[patrickl]

Those joysticks indeed contain the same "leaf" switches yes.

[RandyT]

In the catalog he orders these switches from, they are called Sub-Miniature Lever Microswitch.

Patrick, do you work for a psychic hot-line or something?  You presume to know everything about everything, including the motivation and mind sets of others, yet you are very often  incorrect.  The manufacturers product sheet I used for reference when placing my orders states quite simply "Snap Action Switches", which is the actual technical term for this and all "microswitches."  The part you are referring to as a "lever", is referred to by the manufacturer quite simply as a "moving blade"  The word lever is not mentioned once in the documentation.

And this should really get your knickers in a knot.  Guess what this obviously "skilled in the art" individual is calling what you call a "leaf-switch".  That's correct, a "blade switch" 

How many people read the title and assumed it was actually about micro leaf switches (as in small leaf switches)? ie a small version of a Leafswitch + Bracket that Ponyboy sells.

I guess that's where the issue lies.  You assumed rather than read.  I would appreciate it greatly if you would stop trying to make that my problem.

And as I said before.  Those too are just "switches bolted to a piece of plastic", and my customers told me that they are no longer available and wanted alternatives.  So your problem seems to extend to something deeper that you are not discussing.

Micro-Leaf™ <> Leaf-Switch.  Different words mean different things.  Please accept this as fact, not because I say so, but because it is so.

RandyT

[Santoro]

OK So I got mine today.  I now have a Cherry micro, a Ponyboy leaf switch adapters, and a Micro-leaf in my cp all next to each other.  The micro-leaf is barely audible underneath my 3/4 inch CP.  It a tiny, tiny bit louder than a leaf switch, but much quieter than the Cherry micro.

I haven't played with them yet, I'll do that tonight and report back.  Pressing it definitely feels more leaf-like than micro-like.  So far I am defending Randy's name,  I think people should really try these before hyperventilating about it.

[kowal]

blade switches

[Tiger-Heli]

a Ponyboy leaf switch,

I assume by this you mean the leaf adapters in the Happ buttons, not the Japanese Ponyboy leaf switch which uses a micro-switch posted earlier in this thread, correct?

[RandyT]

Did you ask Saint for permission before posting his picture?

[Santoro]

a Ponyboy leaf switch,

I assume by this you mean the leaf adapters in the Happ buttons, not the Japanese Ponyboy leaf switch which uses a micro-switch posted earlier in this thread, correct?

Yes, didn't realize the latter existed. 

[Level42]

OK So I got mine today.  I now have a Cherry micro, a Ponyboy leaf switch adapters, and a Micro-leaf in my cp all next to each other.  The micro-leaf is barely audible underneath my 3/4 inch CP.  It a tiny, tiny bit louder than a leaf switch, but much quieter than the Cherry micro.

I haven't played with them yet, I'll do that tonight and report back.  Pressing it definitely feels more leaf-like than micro-like.  So far I am defending Randy's name,  I think people should really try these before hyperventilating about it.

This is a lot more interesting than the name debate to me. Could you shoot some video ? Would be great 

[Tiger-Heli]

Yes, didn't realize the latter existed. 

Actually, neither did I until Kowal's post.  I'm interested in hearing how they play-test!!!

[Avrus]

Since several posters on here seem to have psychic powers and know what 'newbies' will think looking at the thread.

I'm a relative newbie.

I took one look at the pictures and said: 'Oh look, a microswitch activated with leaf type movement.'  I didn't even bother to read the description, which is quite clear about the product description.

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

[Tiger-Heli]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

[Avrus]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

It's okay, I'll just ask questions about how to top mount a joystick and trackball with routing instructions.

 

[Kremmit]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

It's okay, I'll just ask questions about how to top mount a joystick and trackball with routing instructions.

 

Oh, come on.. can't you ask us what's the "best" joystick, or where to download a complete set of romz in one huge .zip file or something?  Don't you need to know where to put the "O" and "K" buttons?

Worst.. n00b.. Ever.

[Avrus]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

It's okay, I'll just ask questions about how to top mount a joystick and trackball with routing instructions.

 

Oh, come on.. can't you ask us what's the "best" joystick, or where to download a complete set of romz in one huge .zip file or something?  Don't you need to know where to put the "O" and "K" buttons?

Worst.. n00b.. Ever.

Hey I have a pristine Ms Pacman cabinet and a Galaga cabinet and I'm going to gut them and MAME them and then sell them with the MAME and ROMS.  What do you think?

 

[metahacker]

well, i got these switches.

they're much better than all the standard microswitch buttons.

they're the perfect compromise between a leaf and a typical microswitch.

the leaf is a great unit for the purist.  it requires extra effort to acquire and 'tune.' 
the typical microswitch is, well, loud obnoxious modern cheapness. but they are easy to get & install.

randy's unit has a great feel to it and fits into the stock button holder easily.  it's great.

if you want to go full bore and be true to the old school arcade gangster purity, use leaf.
that is fine.
 
but there is no excuse now to use a regular microswitch   microleaf is better

these are quiet and feel nice and you dont have to f' around to use them.  they just plug in to what most people already have / can get most easily.

yeah yeah... everyone is all busy chattering because he called it 'micro leaf' .. and put the holy "leaf" word in there.  well, the metal leaf LEVER (not switch) actuating the micro switch gives it a specific feel.
 

[BobA]

Sounds good.   Can't wait for mine but the border police have to take their whack at them first.

What's in a name.

Hot Dogs hopefully have no dog.
Hamburgers seldom have ham.
French Fries are not French
Denver Sandwiches don't come from Denver
Big Macs are not at all BIG

Philly Cheese Steaks do have cheese, and steak and are from Philly... They are the exception to the name game.


 

[SodaPopinksi]

I too have the micro-leafs, plus ponyboy's leaf adapter, regular leafs and cherry microswitches to compare. I also haven't set up the micro-leafs to test playing them yet, BUT I can certainly confirm that they feel much more smooth and are much more quiet than the regular microswitches. A definite improvement over microswitches and I would love to see a joystick that can utilize them. Regular cherry microswitches feel "clunky" in comparison to the micro-leaf's smooth and quiet actuation. Like Santoro said they are'nt as quiet as a regular leafswitch, but they are much more quiet than a cherry microswitch.

I can also confirm these work just fine with Ultralux buttons. I was going to use ponyboy's leaf adapters on the Ultralux but you have to mod them slightly to work properly on those buttons so I'll be using the micro-leafs instead.

[ahofle]

I vote Randy removes the 'micro' from the name just to see if someone around here has a coronary. 

[JMB]

This entire incident could have been avoided if Randy would just spend his time finishing the new 49-ways rather than coming out with other cool products.

[Green Giant]

Sounds good.   Can't wait for mine but the border police have to take their whack at them first.

What's in a name.

Hot Dogs hopefully have no dog.
Hamburgers seldom have ham.
French Fries are not French
Denver Sandwiches don't come from Denver
Big Macs are not at all BIG

Philly Cheese Steaks do have cheese, and steak and are from Philly... They are the exception to the name game.

I got a really weird hamburger in mexico once with bread, lettuce, tomato, ground beef patty, cheese, and a slice of HAM.

They aren't called french fries, they are freedom fries, where have you been, the 90's?

[MikeQ]

I've always wondered why a "shipment" is sent by truck or plane and "cargo" is sent by a ship.

Anyway, Randy is the most proliferate innovator the BYOAC has.  We shouldn't quibble over petty things like product names.  We are lucky to have vendors like him supporting the hobby.

[Kaytrim]

Anyway, Randy is the most proliferate innovator the BYOAC has.  We shouldn't quibble over petty things like product names.  We are lucky to have vendors like him supporting the hobby.

I have stayed out of this thread since the name game debate started.  I totally agree with you Mike.

This entire incident could have been avoided if Randy would just spend his time finishing the new 49-ways rather than coming out with other cool products.

While I too am anxiously waiting for the new 49-way sticks and interfaces I don't think that its worth berating Randy about them.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[Avrus]

You park on a driveway, but you drive on a parkway.

 

[Tiger-Heli]

Gotta love George Carlin:  "What should you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant?"

[Avrus]

Pulled the loud clicky trigger on 10 of these.   

[Jouster]

Gotta love George Carlin:  "What should you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant?"

If they are both endangered...they must taste really good (or they wouldn't have been hunted or picked into that stauts)...kill 'em both and have a bar-b-q!

Jouster

[Level42]

yes yes, enough about the names. I dare Patrick to come up with some good Dutch names for both Micro Switch and Leaf Switch.  Both terms are simply used in English here (as so many others).

Great to finally read some info from people who actually have the product in hands. As I already said, this sounds like a sweet alternative where real leafs won't fit, but would love to kick out the regular microswitches.

[Circo]

You have to love the fact that as soon as someone got one and said they work great.... The fighting stopped.