New Product: Micro-Leaf™ Arcade Pushbutton Switches - GroovyGameGear

[RandyT]

Available now from from www.groovygamegear.com

Here's yet another GroovyGameGear Innovation!  The Micro-Leaf™ Arcade Pushbutton Switch.  The only pushbutton switch to combine the best traits of both the classic leaf-style switch and the modern micro or "snap" switches.  The Micro-Leaf gets rid of the loud clicking. Much like a leaf switch, it's virtually inaudible when installed in a panel and the actuation can't be felt at all.  Actuation is fast and reset travel is tiny, making ultra-fast cycling a reality for the first time ever in a microswitch based arcade pushbutton.  Even the replacement of only the primary fire button switches on your panel with Micro-Leafs will make those rapid-fire games more enjoyable.

Features:

• Fast actuation and provides excellent button sensitivity.
• Extremely short "reset travel" for rapid fire capability
• Specially engineered to allow advanced functionality with virtually all conventional microswitch-based arcade pushbuttons
  including RGB-Drive™ outfitted Pushbuttons, NovaGem™ and other bottom lit Pushbuttons
• No more problems related to loud clicking, excessive resistance, long actuation/reset travel, dirty or mis-aligned contact points.
• Smaller control panel footprint.  Terminal legs are vertical and will accept standard .187 Female QD's
• Switch is manufacturer rated at 1,000,000 mechanical cycles
• Tough Acrylic and Polyester Construction.  Adapter Plate can be re-used.

Price:  $2.75 each


Once again, thanks to everyone who buys through GGG.  Without you folks, we couldn't keep bringing the community new items like this one.

RandyT

[Major Rock Hardy]

way to go Randy!  Have you tried the ones that ponyboy was selling?  Any comparisons?

[Green Giant]

    

You are the ---smurf---.

From now on everything I get will have micro-leaf switches.

    

[Jeff AMN]

Awesome! It might be time to build a new panel...

[leapinlew]

Freakin Awesome!

[Neilyboy]

Heck yes!!! and dangit I just bought 50 NOS leaf switch holders.. ugh.. I already had my buttons for micro switches as well.. hmm well I may have to ebay what I have now and hit ya up with a large order soon!!! I cant wait to get some of these Randy thanks so much!!

Anyone need any leaf switch holders ill give ya a byoac deal

Neil

[mr.Curmudgeon]

GAH!!!        AWESOME!!

You are one innovative mf'er.   

[Kremmit]

Oh, dangit.  You couldn't have announced these last week, before I placed an order?

[Chris G]

No kidding, I just got my button order.        Looks great, Randy.

[More Cowbell]

I'll definitely be ordering some of these soon. Nice work.

[pointdablame]

Awesome work, that is such a fantastic idea.

[Angry_Radish]

Great product!
I can't wait to get some!

[Level42]

I can only pray for the ultra-micro leaf that will fit inside a Star Wars yoke....

[javeryh]

AWESOME!!  So I can swap out these switches for all of the standard ones I have in my Happs buttons?
I am definietly using these for my next panel...

 

[JustMichael]

Randy,
     You and Andy (Ultimarc) have cost me sooo much money.     You both keep coming up with products that I just gotta have.  Thanks again!!

[knave]

Randy, Will these work with joysticks as well as the buttons?

Will we be able to order them with the buttons as an option instead of the microswitches? How about with joysticks? (if they are compatable.)

Thanks, Great Idea!!! 

[RandyT]

Thanks to everyone for all of the positive remarks.

Randy, Will these work with joysticks as well as the buttons?

Will we be able to order them with the buttons as an option instead of the microswitches? How about with joysticks? (if they are compatable.)

These will not work for joysticks as they were specifically design to work with pushbuttons, taking lighting into consideration.  However, a joystick version is already planned.

The will be an extra cost option to have these included with all pushbuttons we sell, as well as joysticks when the time comes.

RandyT

[Santoro]

Cripes. Another innovation.

I have the Ponyboy leaf switches I was going to use on my next cab, but I really like these for the compactness.

edit.  stupid question removed.

[SodaPopinksi]

Joysticks using these sound verrry promising 

[Senator]

Can someone please explain to a noob the appeal of these over the cherries that everyone seems to have.

[mccoy178]

Here is the best explanation I could find on google.  The following words are not my own:

Can someone please explain to a noob the appeal of these over the cherries that everyone seems to have.

"If you have to ask you wouldn't understand" -  It's the sort of thing you either "get", or you don't. If you get it, you've got it, and if you don't it can't be explained to you. It's like breathing or football.

The most common thing I've heard this in reference to is Jazz with second runner up being religion. Sometimes it's used as a cop out to get out of what might be a tediously boring discourse, but most of the time it's inherently true: you have to come to the meaning yourself, or else there is no meaning to be had.

[Senator]

So, you're suggesting I should buy some 

[Donkey_Kong]

So, you're suggesting I should buy some 

Senator,

Just read the product description again.

Features:

    * Fast actuation and provides excellent button sensitivity.
    * Extremely short "reset travel" for rapid fire capability
    * Specially engineered to allow advanced functionality with virtually all conventional microswitch-based arcade pushbuttons
      including RGB-Drive™ outfitted Pushbuttons, NovaGem™ and other bottom lit Pushbuttons
    * No more problems related to loud clicking, excessive resistance, long actuation/reset travel, dirty or mis-aligned contact points.
    * Smaller control panel footprint.  Contacts are vertical and will accept standard .187 Female QD's
    * Switch is manufacturer rated at 1,000,000 mechanical cycles
    * Tough Acrylic and Polyester Construction.  Adapter Plate can be re-used.

[Organic Jerk]

However, a joystick version is already planned.

YESSSSSSSSSSS........



YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

[Kremmit]

Senator:

They're quiet, they're fast, they don't require much finger pressure.  All the same as old-school leafswitches, the buttons for which are no longer being produced.  But they don't need to be cleaned or adjusted like leafswitches, and they fit readily available microswitch buttons.   

*disclaimer*
At least, that's the idea.  Obviously nobody but the manufacturer has tried them out yet.  But I'm willing to accept Randy's claims unless somebody with the actual product in hand has a contradiction.

[Senator]

Thanks, sounds like they'll be good sellers for Randy.

I understand the religious part of it also, as an avid mountain biker I often have people ask stuff like "Why can't I just go to Walmart and get a bike for $199, I don't really need a $2,000 bike."  To which I reply something like McCoy.  I can't really explain the difference (I can but it should be self evident), if you can't tell, I can't help you to  understand it.  Good stuff 

[mccoy178]

   I'm glad you took that the right way.

[deadkenndys1105]

Thanks to everyone for all of the positive remarks.

Randy, Will these work with joysticks as well as the buttons?

Will we be able to order them with the buttons as an option instead of the microswitches? How about with joysticks? (if they are compatable.)

These will not work for joysticks as they were specifically design to work with pushbuttons, taking lighting into consideration.  However, a joystick version is already planned.

The will be an extra cost option to have these included with all pushbuttons we sell, as well as joysticks when the time comes.

RandyT

Im kinda confused why I couldn't use these in my joystick also because my buttons and joystick use the same switches.  I will be ordering some of these some time soon though.

[Level42]

Senator:

They're quiet, they're fast, they don't require much finger pressure.  All the same as old-school leafswitches, the buttons for which are no longer being produced. 

Says who ? You can still buy them everywhere....

[kowal]

sorry it is plunger?

[RandyT]

sorry it is plunger?

Yes.  That is the actuator.

Im kinda confused why I couldn't use these in my joystick also because my buttons and joystick use the same switches.

Even though the switches are the same, the hardware that actuates them and the physical space they occupy is different.  That's why a special version will be required.  It probably won't be especially easy to make work either, but I'll give it a try.

RandyT

[kowal]

sorry it is plunger?

Yes.  That is the actuator.

this is normal microswitches only version subminiature with short plain lever

it he acts similarly to standart microswitches with short plain lever (1) 18mm


sorry this does not act how leaf switch, because this is not leaf switch
"micro" leaf switch looks like this

[RandyT]

it he acts similarly to standart microswitches with short plain lever (1) 18mm

No.  it, in fact, does not.

Those larger micros have much longer throws, harder actuation points and longer "snap" resets.  The metal leaf (blade, plate, etc) on those units merely make the travel longer, which the opposite of what is desired.  They also make a nice loud click, have a footprint that would require them to be mounted outside of the button (not that they would be of any benefit over a regular microswitch in this application anyway) and one would feel the uneven resistance of the actuation.

The Micro-Leaf™ switches are not traditional "leaf switches", nor have I claimed them to be.  If they were, you would still have the issues of contact alignment, cleaning, excessive de-bounce requirements and ridiculously large footprints.  They are merely a major improvement over standard microswitches, and give a very quiet and fast  "leaf-like" feel.  Not to mention they snap right into any standard arcade pushbutton, illuminated or not.

RandyT

[kowal]

Randy you can make photo, unbuttoned switch? (similar to this)

http://gopodular.com/support_articles/arcade_joystick_comparison_happ_sanwa_seimitsu.htm

[RandyT]

This product is available now for those who have been waiting.

And those who can't understand the value of engineering, laser machining, part selection, assembly, prototyping and testing so that the end result is a "drop-in" replacement that addresses so many complaints users have expressed with other pushbutton switches, please feel free to hack something nice for yourself from an old pinball machine

RandyT

[SirPoonga]

pinball, no.  1st, this won't make a click.  2nd, adding a metal lever to actuator to a normal microswitch does increase the throw, basic level and fulcrum physics.

Randy, would you have any interest in remaking the opposite, leaf button but microswitch like nintendo did.
http://www.arcadeequipmentwarehouse.com/parts/nintendo-leaf-switch.jpg


I will be ordering 8 of these soon, I almost have my double dragon repaired and it needs leaf replacements.  Though now with this product I have many microswitch buttons, it will save me a purchase

Do you have a pic of it in the button?

Ok, this is sort of an off the wall question and I suppose I could look at your website for an answer.  If I have a tball with a standard cable do you have an easy plug and play usb interface?  I don't want to fix my mouse hack, I want something more professional.  I know you have an interface, but does a standard tball cable plug into it?

[RandyT]

Randy, would you have any interest in remaking the opposite, leaf button but microswitch like nintendo did.
http://www.arcadeequipmentwarehouse.com/parts/nintendo-leaf-switch.jpg

Do a search on 'lever cherry microswitch'.  THAT is an off the shelf part. 

He is referring to the ability to use a standard microswitch with a leaf-style button.  Ie. not the switch as much as what allows it to be used in that application.

SirP:

I could probably have these made, but I have to wonder about the market size.  I understand that the appeal of the translucent buttons designed for leaf switches is their appearance ( my High-Speed pinball uses the red ones and they do look nice) and there is really no replacement for those.  But the cost would be pretty high on the bracket in small numbers, and to account for different panel thicknesses, some adjustability or shimming would be necessary.  For solid colored buttons, outright replacement would probably be the best bet.  But I'll splash it around in the gray matter and see what happens.

I also want to point out that the Micro-Leafs do still make a very subtle click, but not appreciably louder than the sound of two leaf switch contacts hitting together.  The difference between these and a standard microswitch is huge in that regard.

RandyT

[RandyT]

Do you have a pic of it in the button?

Standard HAPP horizontal pushbutton:

Ok, this is sort of an off the wall question and I suppose I could look at your website for an answer.  If I have a tball with a standard cable do you have an easy plug and play usb interface?  I don't want to fix my mouse hack, I want something more professional.  I know you have an interface, but does a standard tball cable plug into it?

A USB Opti-Wiz with an Opti-Wiz trackball cable will give you everything you need to plug and go for the trackball.  If you need mouse button cabling, that can be purchased as well, or a cable can hacked from old PC case wires and plugged onto the 4-pin header.

RandyT

[SirPoonga]

Randy, yeah yeah, supply & demand... 
"and to account for different panel thicknesses"  Not really, leaf buttons do this.  There are long and short buttons.  Shorts for metal panels, longs for wood.  I'm just throwing the idea out there, I don't expect something like this to happen because there just isn't the demand for it. 

pinball, I would think longevity would be high.  While I suppose this lever could get bent at the plunger it depends on the design.  Also I'd think that small lever would not bend as easily as the long thing piece of metal in a leaf switch.  This brings up a question, Randy, did you do any stress testing like repeating button machine for 10 minutes


Nice pic.  Since the tabs go straight down it looks like it might require a slightly deeper control panel (have to account for the wire and female connector).  Would taking a needle nose and bending the tabs to the left (in that pic) be bad?  That way quick connects can be taken on and off from the side easily in shallow panels (like cocktails).

Thanks for the info on the optiwiz.  Ball mice are getting really hard to find so I have to find an alternative now

[Santoro]

huh?

How are you going to attach one of those to a pushbutton?

Even if it was the same switch with an adapted body, that doesn't mean it is unoriginal. 

[patrickl]

Looks like the SN10-QACF from Vabsco. 

Yeah, but then with a piece of plastic stuck to it so can be placed in a button.

I guess I created a "micro leaf" joystick already for my PocketGalaga

[RandyT]

Looks like the SN10-QACF from Vabsco. 

Yeah, but then with a piece of plastic stuck to it so can be placed in a button.

You are aware that the leaf switch adapters are also a switch "with a piece of plastic stuck to it so can be placed in a button", yes?  It's only because these have dried up and I have been asked numerous times about them that I spent the money and effort on this project.  No one is making either of you switch your buttons or threatening your world in any way.  Why react so vehemently to a new option being presented to folks who might, unlike yourselves, appreciate being given the option?

I guess I created a "micro leaf" joystick already for my PocketGalaga

I'd say you created a nail with two switches nailed next to it.  See how that works? 

FWIW, I just spent $6000 on a laser cutting machine just so I could offer these types of things to the community.  It will be a long time before I see that returned, if ever, so that probably makes me foolish.  Be happy there are people foolish enough to keep spending the money and time to do these types of things that you don't think need to be done.

RandyT

[fixedpigs]

I also want to point out that the Micro-Leafs do still make a very subtle click, but not appreciably louder than the sound of two leaf switch contacts hitting together.  The difference between these and a standard microswitch is huge in that regard.

RandyT

is it quieter than the sound of a mouse click...?

keep up the good work randy...

[RandyT]

Randy, yeah yeah, supply & demand... 
"and to account for different panel thicknesses"  Not really, leaf buttons do this.  There are long and short buttons.  Shorts for metal panels, longs for wood.  I'm just throwing the idea out there, I don't expect something like this to happen because there just isn't the demand for it. 

I was thinking along the lines of the home builders.  There is no set standard for panel thickness in this group.  Too many different materials, coverings, etc.  But I'll still think about it and see if there's a simple to build solution.

This brings up a question, Randy, did you do any stress testing like repeating button machine for 10 minutes

Heh.  I played a bunch of games over a couple of weeks and probably have more like hours on them.  Earlier I mentioned sourcing.  I have confirmation from the manufacturer's rep that these specific switches have 1,000,000 mechanical cycle ratings, just like regular microswitches do.  If they didn't I would have kept looking for another supplier.  I could have sourced cheaper switches from China, but they could not give me the 1,000,000 mechanical cycle rating I required.  Some seem to think these things are all created equal, but they most definitely are not!

Since the tabs go straight down it looks like it might require a slightly deeper control panel (have to account for the wire and female connector).  Would taking a needle nose and bending the tabs to the left (in that pic) be bad?  That way quick connects can be taken on and off from the side easily in shallow panels (like cocktails).

Yes, they do extend downwards, so if you have a very shallow panel, some adjustment would need to be made.  More often, lateral space is at a premium so the vertical pins can be a blessing.  But I think you could even go as far as clipping the unused NC pin and bending the pins as you like, as long as it's only once. 

is it quieter than the sound of a mouse click...?

Much quieter than the 4 different mice I just compared them to here.

RandyT

[whammoed]

Be happy there are people foolish enough to keep spending the money and time to do these types of things that you don't think need to be done.

RandyT

I appreciate it Randy!  In fact sometimes I resemble that remark.  These may or may not be on par with the good old leaf switch button...I have no idea..., but I'd bet money its better than a regualar microswitch.  I'm already stocked on leaf buttons and switches but I will probably get one of these to play with on my next order.

Just let me know when you've made my perfect joystic eh?: 8way/4way restrictor switchable by solenoid or other electric means with a balltop and a fire button on the front of the balltop (think Tron cocktail) 

[Tiger-Heli]

Awesome idea Randy!!!

Question: A while back 1Up posted a suggestion of removing the springs from standard microswitches to make the actuation easier and faster.  I tried that and liked it.  Have you tried that with these?  And if so, does it help, or do these really need the springs back, or is it a personal preference type thing?

Again, thanks for all your hard work in support of our collective hobby!!!

[BobA]

Idea is great Randy.  I only wish I had known so I could have ordered some with my marquee led light.

IMO it is amazing how many criticize or try to second guess a new product without even spending the few bucks to try one out.  An objective review is worthwhile and appreciated all.  S**TKicking from the sidelines is not.

Thanks for all your great stuff Randy.

[Level42]

Idea is great Randy.  I only wish I had known so I could have ordered some with my marquee led light.

IMO it is amazing how many criticize or try to second guess a new product without even spending the few bucks to try one out.  An objective review is worthwhile and appreciated all.  SH1TKicking from the sidelines is not.

Thanks for all your great stuff Randy.

The LED light is also a standard product adapted for us. It's at a very good price too. I don't care....I will be ordering one of those sooner or later
It's the same with the guy making a small PCB with 2 LED's on it and a connector...of course I can make that myself, but some people are less handy or want a "neat" solution....

I think we should be grateful to see Andy and Randy offering innovation on arcade game related products.

I guess that 6000 dollar laser cutter will not be used only for this product......

The only problem I have is that it is called Micro Leaf when, in fact, it's not actualy a leaf. 

[markrvp]

The only problem I have is that it is called Micro Leaf when, in fact, it's not actualy a leaf. 

I believe the metal actuator is called a leaf.  There is only one, as opposed to a traditional "leaf switch" which has contacts on two separate leafs which complete a circuit when they connect.  In this case, a leaf is used to activate a switch and complete the contact.  It's all about leverage.

[Tiger-Heli]

You could also make a valid argument that the product uses a microswitch (or microswitch mounting style) to mimic the "feel" of a leafswitch - hence Micro-Leaf ...

[Stobe]

Randy,

Despite the words and actions of a very few here, we do very much appreciate all that you do for the hobby.

I've been ordering stuff from you since you had a 1 page website , and I've never been disappointed.

As far as reliability?  I'm pretty certain I would never get 1,000,000 button clicks on one of these before you come out with a newer product that I'd replace it with 

-Stobe

[kowal]

Metal Slug 1 - 10.000 shots to to finish game
1.000.000 = 100x 1CC
this is not a lot of.

cherry have 10.000.000
honywell 30.000.000
omron 50.000.000

[RandyT]

Thanks for the words of support.

Question: A while back 1Up posted a suggestion of removing the springs from standard microswitches to make the actuation easier and faster.  I tried that and liked it.  Have you tried that with these?  And if so, does it help, or do these really need the springs back, or is it a personal preference type thing?

That's actually something I have suggested quite often as well.  But in this case, I don't recommend it.  The feel would be the same as relying on only a leaf switch and no spring.  Not a strong enough return.

Metal Slug 1 - 10.000 shots to to finish game
1.000.000 = 100x 1CC
this is not a lot of.

cherry have 10.000.000
honywell 30.000.000
omron 50.000.000

Finishing Metal Slug 100 times before you destroyed a switch seems like an awful long time to me.  How many hours of constant use to you suppose that equates to? 

I have seen these "ratings" crawl upward over the years and it's not due to increases in quality.  It's marketing.  Who is counting every click of a $1.00 button, and when called on it, what manufacturer will have a problem replacing a "faulty" switch that costs them 5 cents in parts to produce?  But the numbers sure look impressive when compared to their competition.  The issue is made even worse when some independent distributors start assigning their own numbers that are based on nothing.

All switches fail eventually, and if you have been paying any attention to some of the posts in forums like these, you'd see that Cherry switches usually don't see anything near that longevity.

I also think you are using questionable sources for at least one of your ratings.  Please tell me where, either on the Cherry website, or in this document, it states that the series of switches used in pushbuttons (K-Series) have that longevity.  Otherwise, please do proper research to avoid posting incorrect information that might adversely affect others.

RandyT

[xmenxmen]

I will be ordering some soon.  They will be replacing the 1st button switch on each player.  Now I can say I can get even closer to the arcade feel.  Thanks for yet another great product.

[ahofle]

Awesome work Randy.   

[Stobe]

Metal Slug 1 - 10.000 shots to to finish game
1.000.000 = 100x 1CC
this is not a lot of.

For sake of argument, how many quarters have you just dropped into that machine inorder to cause Randy's button switch to fail?  (100 minimum).

[kowal]

10.000.000 this official HAPP information

honywell 30.000.000

1.000.000 has sanwa (OBSF) and seimitsu - this little. professional shmup splayers in japan alter buttons what 3-4 months. they play 4-6/24h. nobody with us plays so many but this shows that 1.000.000 this is little. special sanwa series RG has 5.000.000 (Teaito Egret panels)

manufacturers pass minimum value. 1.000.000 does not inform that button will get lost after 1.000.000. 100% keeps more (if you play on hand no leg)

[RandyT]

10.000.000 this official HAPP information

See part above about distributor ratings and marketing.  For real specifications, look to the manufacturer, not the distributor / retailer.  But for fun, let's do some math on that claim.  If a machine was set up to perform 5-cycles per second (which is about as fast as a human can possibly cycle one of those switches, so it's a good "control" for the test) that test would take 2,000,000 seconds to perform.  That's over 23 days, running 5 times a second for 24 hours a day.   Does anyone here, based on their experience with pushbutton microswitches, believe that this switch would survive a week at that pace, let alone over 3? 

On the Cherry website, I see 1,000,000 mechanical cycle ratings only on specific models (not the K-Series used in pushbuttons) and 4,000,000 on expensive industrial switches.  If you think you're going to get an average of 10,000,000 cycles out of a $1.00 switch, you have problems counting zeros.  But that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.

honywell 30.000.000

Here's the Honeywell datasheet for that exact switch.  You'll not find a number like the one you quoted anywhere in it.

RandyT

[kowal]

durability be counted on 1.000.000 pressing. 1 pressing on second. 1 minute -60 seconds. 60 minutes - 1h. 277,7h playing. 3h/24h  = 90 days

this agrees with fact of change of arcade panels in japan what 3-6 months

different firms which are they produce microswitches: SAIA, Honywell, OMRON, Mastushita, MicroYamatace and all may >10.000.000 what easily above:P you do not believe? sorry your problem

[More Cowbell]

Well I was going to buy some of these micro-leafs from you Randy but Kowal has a valid point. I myslef am a professional Japanese shmups player much like most of the rest of this board and I WILL NOT invest $2.75 on a switch that will only last me 90 days. Good day to you, sir. 

[Level42]

All switches fail eventually,....

26 years of service.

Over 62.000 games on the counter.

Still as smooth as a baby's bottom...

[Chris]

Personally I love the idea of being able to drop in replacement switches to give me a more sensitive leaf-like action without having to redesign my panel for leaf holders or create adaptors for microswitches with actuators.  My order is in!

If you don't like them, think leafs are better, think you are such a hardcore player that one million cycles isn't enough for you, I have a groundbreaking solution: DON'T BUY THEM.  Randy, I'm glad you're putting these things out for the rest of us!

[Kremmit]

Well I was going to buy some of these micro-leafs from you Randy but Kowal has a valid point. I myslef am a professional Japanese shmups player much like most of the rest of this board and I WILL NOT invest $2.75 on a switch that will only last me 90 days. Good day to you, sir. 

pwnt

[Level42]

Just wanted to say that I didn't mean to criticize the Micro-Leaf with my last post with that old Galaxian leaf (and yes that is the one for the fire button ). I just find it's funny that leaf switches never come with a "10.000.000" cycle mention....

I agree with Randy about those numbers. Even if you do run them out (I've never run out a microswitch on any other device, like computer mice) but even if you do.......that couple of bucks that it cost shouldn't be something to get annoyed over.... there are also other (more important) specs on microswitches like spring tension, sound etc.

I think the Micro-Leaf is offering another great option for us to select. In some situations I will definitely like to use them. Would be great f.i. on Nintendo joysticks (hope they'll fit). Or in situations where space is tight. I personally always try to steer away from regular microswtiches as I hate them. This is great as an alternative where normal leafs can't be (easily) used. I mentioned it jokingly before, but would it be possible to get Ultra-micro-leaf switches that fit inside the Star Wars yoke handle ?

[squirrellydw]

Why are so many people idiots??  I guess everyone that is criticizing these switches don't like to have a choice in anything.

Nice job randy, keep up the great work.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I don't use switches on my CP at all. I just scream at the attract mode, and pretend I'm winning!

[zaphod]

Great work again, Randy!  Thanks.  I'll be using one of these at least in the button by my four-way.  Looks like it'd help my score, and body, during Galaga sessions.

[destructor]

Hm...I see this switch is mounted with some angle in button. It is not good because you will feel differrence when you press button in different points. On left side feel will be hard on right side it will be ... (?) If you play on games where you must shoot often, you newer press button in center, always on edge of button.

[RandyT]

Hm...I see this switch is mounted with some angle in button. It is not good because you will feel differrence when you press button in different points. On left side feel will be hard on right side it will be ... (?) If you play on games where you must shoot often, you newer press button in center, always on edge of button.

If you can't feel the switch beyond the tension of the button's internal spring, are you going to not feel it less on the other side of the button?

It always helps to read the product description and discussion, or maybe even do some real experimentation with the part,  before trying to play engineer.

RandyT

[destructor]

Hm...I see this switch is mounted with some angle in button. It is not good because you will feel differrence when you press button in different points. On left side feel will be hard on right side it will be ... (?) If you play on games where you must shoot often, you newer press button in center, always on edge of button.

If you can't feel the switch beyond the tension of the button's internal spring, are you going to not feel it less on the other side of the button?

For return button's plunger to 'top position' is required not strenght from spring only but from switch too. Otherwise this must be tested as you say.

PS. When I saw first time your TT2 spinner I say HURRA! but this product looks strange

[Chris]

Hm...I see this switch is mounted with some angle in button. It is not good because you will feel differrence when you press button in different points. On left side feel will be hard on right side it will be ... (?) If you play on games where you must shoot often, you newer press button in center, always on edge of button.

A regular microswitch button only contacts on one side; how is this any different?

To me it looks like the angle is set to make the distance to the actuator more similar to what a leaf would be.  I'm dying to see what these new switches do for my Track and Field scores.

[RandyT]

For return button's plunger to 'top position' is required not strenght from spring only but from switch too. Otherwise this must be tested as you say.

Take the switch out of your pushbutton and see if the button returns after you push it

If the button's spring tension alone isn't enough for one's tastes, one can also stretch the spring slightly to increase the resistance as desired.

RandyT

[Level42]

I vote for some video footage (on YouTube) of the Micro-Leaf in action

[Chris]

I vote for some video footage (on YouTube) of the Micro-Leaf in action

I have some on the way, if Randy doesn't do that maybe I can arrange it.  I think Track and Field will be a good benchmark for me; I run with only one finger on one button, and I can't do it nearly as well as I used t.  Slow microswitch or just old age?  We'll soon see.

[BobA]

I have some on the way too.

[RandyT]

I think Track and Field will be a good benchmark for me; I run with only one finger on one button, and I can't do it nearly as well as I used t.  Slow microswitch or just old age?  We'll soon see.

I used to be pretty good at that game, but not so much anymore.  I just don't "twitch" like I used to.  However, I did quite well with one button in the couple of games I tried (made it to the high jump and broke a couple of records along the way.)  Better than with two, which I'm guessing is due to my co-ordination not being what it used to be.

I'm curious to see what a good player can do with these.

RandyT

[destructor]

Micro-Leaf in action

Subminiature switch with lever.
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/54v00042x.htm
There are with levers:
http://www.essendeinki.com/subminiature_micro_switches.htm
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/submini/e_sub.htm
More?
http://www.interfacebus.com/Switch-Subminiature-Manufacturers.html

Please don't abuse word 'LEAF'. Leaf switch is when for action are required two or more metal plates, not plunger or plunger with metal plate or plunger with ....

[Level42]

I think you totally misunderstood me Destructor.

I wis simply mentioning the product that Randy/GGG named "micro-leaf" (that's what this whole thread is about, isn't it ?). If you read my earlier posting I actually mentioned that I kinda disagree with the name because of the reasons you mention.

But then again, what's in a name...

About the "in action": I would like to see some VIDEO footage. You know, a series of pictures quickly projected after each-other that gives the human eye the impression that it actually sees something moving. I want to see it "in action" that is someone pressing the lever (preferably with and without a button connected to it), so I can see/hear how it works.
 

 

[destructor]

I understand that name product can be any. For example: Super Laser Switch But it lead in people to mistake because people think that switch use laser for action where really is plunger with lever
It looks as publicity.

[Tiger-Heli]

Take the switch out of your pushbutton and see if the button returns after you push it

Nope, just sits there at the bottom, in fact I can't even push it ...

Oh wait, you weren't talking to me ... 

[Level42]

I understand that name product can be any. For example: Super Laser Switch But it lead in people to mistake because people think that switch use laser for action where really is plunger with lever
It looks as publicity.

I agree, but I didn't make-up the name....talk to Randy 

[destructor]

Take the switch out of your pushbutton and see if the button returns after you push it

Nope, just sits there at the bottom, in fact I can't even push it ...

Button returns otherwise but how fast? The same is with joysticks centering, remove switches from joystick and check how fast joystick back to center. Simple example is UltraStik.

Hm...I see this switch is mounted with some angle in button. It is not good because you will feel differrence when you press button in different points. On left side feel will be hard on right side it will be ... (?) If you play on games where you must shoot often, you newer press button in center, always on edge of button.

A regular microswitch button only contacts on one side; how is this any different?

Good point, you have right. Thing is that switch's plunger return not vertically but using some angle = slower return pushbutton to top position. It is nevermind for games where you shot one time for half hour. But what if you must shot 8-10 (or more if you can) times for second? Oherwise it must be tested.

[patrickl]

I guess I created a "micro leaf" joystick already for my PocketGalaga

I'd say you created a nail with two switches nailed next to it.  See how that works? 

Yes that's exactly my point. Nothing "leaf" about either. Yet, one of us actually calls it a "leaf" switch 

Adding the lever/leaf only increases the "throw" of the switch (which is exactly what you don't want) and I doubt it does anything with the clicking sound. It does reduce the pressure required for activating the switch, but that's it. So that's only one out of three of the leaf advantages over microswitch.

I'll bet it's still a nice product for some people, but I really don't care for the marketing speak with the obvious intention to mislead people.

[RandyT]

Yes that's exactly my point. Nothing "leaf" about either. Yet, one of us actually calls it a "leaf" switch 

leaf  (lf)
n. pl. leaves (lvz)
1. A usually green, flattened, lateral structure attached to a stem and functioning as a principal organ of photosynthesis and transpiration in most plants.
2. A leaflike organ or structure.
3.
a. Leaves considered as a group; foliage.
b. The state or time of having or showing leaves: trees in full leaf.
4. The leaves of a plant used or processed for a specific purpose: large supplies of tobacco leaf.
5. Any of the sheets of paper bound in a book, each side of which constitutes a page.
6.
a. A very thin sheet of material, especially metal.
b. Such leaves considered as a group: covered in gold leaf.
7. A hinged or removable section for a table top.
8. A hinged or otherwise movable section of a folding door, shutter, or gate.
9. One of several metal strips forming a leaf spring.
v. leafed, leaf·ing, leafs
v.intr.
1. To produce leaves; put forth foliage: trees just beginning to leaf.
2. To turn pages, as in searching or browsing: leafed through the catalog.
v.tr.
To turn through the pages of.

So what part of the above relates to the true and actual "leaf switch"?  And what part of it that does, does not relate to this product?

"Snap" switches are referred to as "Micro-switches", and the word "Micro" is first and foremost in the title.  The product does everything that has been claimed and no-one is being misled here (unless it is by the "usual suspects" with their painfully usual agendas) 

Adding the lever/leaf only increases the "throw" of the switch (which is exactly what you don't want) and I doubt it does anything with the clicking sound. It does reduce the pressure required for activating the switch, but that's it. So that's only one out of three of the leaf advantages over microswitch.

Nope.  Smaller switch, smaller throw.  Smaller throw, lighter click.  Some of you "seen and done everything" types might get a real eye-opener from dissecting one of these switches and seeing just how "leaf-like" they are inside.

RandyT

[destructor]

Yes that's exactly my point. Nothing "leaf" about either. Yet, one of us actually calls it a "leaf" switch 

leaf  (lf)
n. pl. leaves (lvz)
1. A usually green, flattened, lateral structure attached to a stem and functioning as a principal organ of photosynthesis and transpiration in most plants.
2. A leaflike organ or structure.
3.
a. Leaves considered as a group; foliage.
b. The state or time of having or showing leaves: trees in full leaf.
4. The leaves of a plant used or processed for a specific purpose: large supplies of tobacco leaf.
5. Any of the sheets of paper bound in a book, each side of which constitutes a page.
6.
a. A very thin sheet of material, especially metal.
b. Such leaves considered as a group: covered in gold leaf.
7. A hinged or removable section for a table top.
8. A hinged or otherwise movable section of a folding door, shutter, or gate.
9. One of several metal strips forming a leaf spring.
v. leafed, leaf·ing, leafs
v.intr.
1. To produce leaves; put forth foliage: trees just beginning to leaf.
2. To turn pages, as in searching or browsing: leafed through the catalog.
v.tr.
To turn through the pages of.

So what part of the above relates to the true and actual "leaf switch"?  And what part of it that does, does not relate to this product?

"Snap" switches are referred to as "Micro-switches", and the word "Micro" is first and foremost in the title.  The product does everything that has been claimed and no-one is being misled here (unless it is by the "usual suspects" with their painfully usual agendas) 

'Micro' is first and foremost in title? Look for this name: Leaf-switch.
RandyT, you create new name for something what is named from years by others manufacturers and mislead peoples. You think you found something new? No. This switch in whole World is named Subminiature Micro Switch and 'L' is added at end symbol what knows Lever not Leaf. Leaf is more thiny than Lever and every people in whole world knows what is leaf switch.
I don't know why you want to mislead people. For more money?
Why you use angle for mount this switch? It can be mounted without angle if you use switch without this lever (more space in point where is plunger, with lever there is additional plastick and switch must be mounted in angle).But you in purpose use switch with lever becuase you want to named it Leaf what is false, mislead peoples for spend money and contradictory with real name knows from other manufacturers. You product is simple 'subminiature micro switch' for pushbuttons. I don't see what word LEAF has for this switch. Leaf in arcade world knows very very thiny metal plate with bend peculiarity. You lever isn't with bend peculiarity because it must push plunger then it is stiff.

[Tiger-Heli]

Thing is that switch's plunger return not vertically but using some angle = slower return pushbutton to top position.

Which btw, is how the original leaf switch would have worked also - would it not?  The two leaves were hinged at a point some 2-3 inches from the contacts, so the leaf in theory would have a slower return to top - although a standard vertical pushbutton microswitch and plunger will also have a slower return to top position because the springs are less compressed = less upward force, so I'm not seeing your point.

Well - I suppose the springs in both the plunger and the vertical microswitch are still in compression even when the button is released, so you can argue that for the extent of the travel, the additional force of the spring is negligible ...

[Xiaou2]

"usual suspects"

 Hope you arnt referring to me.   Patrick is an ****.   You can see him
argue with me on the politics board constantly.


 While I was thinking of posting..  I figured it wasnt worth the hassle.  But
since Im here now..   Ill add my .02$

 The term 'Leaf'   is a bit unsettling...  because, its not a leaf in the classic
arcade sense one bit.   

 I believe a lot of people would prefer true leaf repros instead actually.
A slight modification, with a heavy duty bottom stop to prevent
excess travel - should make these excellent sellers.


 However,  that said,  I have a submicro.. and tested it by holding it by
hand in a happs button.   Mounted at an angle as you have it, does
decrease the actuation amount.   Also, because these micros have the
actuation button so close to the leverage point, it helps even more.

 Did it feel like a leaf?   nah... not even close.

 Click noise was reduced of course.

 Speed in actuation was better than a bigger micro tho.

  My concern is that these types of Micros were used in the Daytona USA
Shifters...  and they died fairly quickly.    Its possible that this brand
is more durable...  but hard to say.

 If Randy allows purchase of the mini-micros without the adapter
plates for a reduces price..  it would make it a little better.
As if one does die, no need for the extra plate.

 Its a decent solution to those who want a bit more performance,
are annoyed with loud clicks, and dont want to mess with leaf
adjustments.

 But for the true classic games player that is used to a real leafs feel,
they may be pretty disappointed.
 
 A real leaf has that sort of 'glide on air' feel to it -   Where as a micro has
a different resistance to it cause of the additional friction and pressures
needed to activate them.   It does slow the process down (your
max shots per sec) , as well as feels more tiring when used rapidly.

 Anyways, Im not badmouthing it.   Its has its place.

 Maybe  'Super Mini-Micro's'  would be a better product name tho.

 

[Timoe]

Well on the wico joystick leafswitch it has a small plastic actuator against the two metal leafs.  And on my bicycle at home, it has two rubber grips on the handle bars and when I spray hairspray on the insides of the grips they stay on the handle bars better.

Apples and oranges people.  Do you have the GGG micro leaf?  No?

Then ask (legitimate) questions about it if you are curious but dont try and give testimonials or reviews on something you've never actually seen.

Praise be to the innovators still inventing worthwhile products for machines that are basically not in production any longer.  Keep it up.  We'll keep buying.

 

[destructor]

standard vertical pushbutton microswitch and plunger will also have a slower return to top position because the springs are less compressed = less upward force, so I'm not seeing your point.

Spring inside pushbutton? Less compressed? Show me pushbutton with high compressed spring.

[Aurich]

You know, everytime this happens (this is hardly the first of these threads) it seems like Randy takes the trouble to make a new product, but then has a little too much fun writing names and marketing copy that end up distracting from the actual product. Which is all that counts at the end of the day, unless you enjoy talking about buttons more than using them. Which might be somewhat true here, granted.

I give Randy a ton of credit for working on this stuff, and don't knock his desire to see a little money from it. But the product descriptions just sound a little snake-oily with the overhyped feel, and I can't help but agree with people that using the word "leaf" is a little misleading, no matter what your dictionary says. My friendly suggestion: Tone down just a little bit, everyone knows who you are and what you do, there's no need to come across so strongly.

I have no dog in this fight, my cabinet is strictly Sanwa. 

[RandyT]

Destructor:

To be very honest, I neither seek nor require your permission to name my products as I see fit.  The switch has been specially selected for its very specific traits out of the hundreds of  models and manufacturers of switches that look like that.  It's spelled out clearly in the description what the switch is, namely a microswitch with some of the leaf-like traits that people are seeking.  I don't think I have created anything other than a clever design to allow individuals to use these more "leaf-like" switches in pushbuttons.  It's angled to allow space for lighting while still being positioned for the best performance of the switch.  If you don't like the angle, and don't have lighted buttons, I'll happily sell you a set of prototypes (that I prematurely started production on ) which don't have it.

Perhaps in your quest to purify English language product names you'd find some entertainment in harassing HAPP for their "Ultimate" Joysticks, which most find to be mediocre at best .... followed by the "Cold Heat™" soldering iron people.  When you are done with those, another 10 minutes in the trademark database should yield enough pointless endeavors to keep you busy for the rest of your life.

Xiaou2:

Yes, I will be offering replacement switches to Micro-Leaf™ owners.  It's wouldn't be right to make folks re-purchase the adapter parts if just a switch should go bad.

But the product descriptions just sound a little snake-oily

I don't post things that are untrue, as the "snake oil" term would infer, and I market my products no differently than anyone else.  I just take more heat for it   

RandyT

[Warborg]

There always has to be those few that complain no matter what you do...  If you toned down your marketing as was suggested, you'd have others saying you need to step it up so your noticed by vets and noobs alike.  I for one appreciate that a hobbiest is out there producing quality products for other enthusiasts!

[Tiger-Heli]

... and I market my products no differently than anyone else.  I just take more heat for it   

Not true - you write better ad copy than most - and take more heat for it. 

[vitaflo]

Wow, looks like it's time to change out all 14 switches in my cab.  I can't stand the "CLICK CLICK CLICK" of the Cherry switches.   Here's hoping you make some joystick switches too, I'd buy those as well.

And my god at all the cry babies in this thread.  Make something better or STFU.

[Chris]

RandyT, you create new name for something what is named from years by others manufacturers and mislead peoples. You think you found something new?

He's created a new name for an adapter and switch set that allows someone with microswitch pushbuttons to get some of the benefits of leaf switches without the negatives of leaf switches.  I understood exactly what he meant by the name.  If anyone is unclear as to exactly what it is, he includes pictures that show that it is a microswitch with a lever actuator mounted to an adapter that allows it to fit into an existing microswitch button.  Where is he misleading anyone?

[patrickl]

Yes that's exactly my point. Nothing "leaf" about either. Yet, one of us actually calls it a "leaf" switch 

a. A very thin sheet of material, especially metal.

Pfft sure. This metal part on a switch is called a lever. You know perfectly well why instead you choose to call it a "leaf". Especially in the arcade scene here were leaf has a very different connotation from microswitch this an obvious attempt to mislead people.

Adding the lever/leaf only increases the "throw" of the switch (which is exactly what you don't want) and I doubt it does anything with the clicking sound. It does reduce the pressure required for activating the switch, but that's it. So that's only one out of three of the leaf advantages over microswitch.

Nope.  Smaller switch, smaller throw. 

Pfft again. Smaller than what? The real leaf switches will have practically no activation distance. A microswitch without a lever has a smaller activation distance than one with a lever.

Some of you "seen and done everything" types might get a real eye-opener from dissecting one of these switches and seeing just how "leaf-like" they are inside.

It's still a microswitch with a lever and not a leaf switch. It has a very slight advantage (lighter activation) and a slight disadvantage (longer activation distance) over a regular microswitch.

[patrickl]

And my god at all the cry babies in this thread.  Make something better or STFU.

There is something better already and it's called a leaf switch.

[Kremmit]

Pfft sure. This metal part on a switch is called a lever. You know perfectly well why instead you choose to call it a "leaf". Especially in the arcade scene here were leaf has a very different connotation from microswitch this an obvious attempt to mislead people.

What kind of doofus could possibly have been misled by that, when there's a PICTURE RIGHT THERE showing the microswitch.  Micro-Leaf.  Micro, because it's a Microswitch.  Leaf, because it tries to emulate some of the characteristics of a leafswitch.  How can people be having trouble with that?  Is there really anybody here that's so dumb then can't tell what's for sale, and what it's supposed to do?  Anybody?  Come on, one of you guys admit you were totally unable to tell what was for sale.  Because if nobody was fooled, than this whole conversation is pretty dumb.

It's not an attempt to mis-lead.  Does anybody really picture Randy sitting at his desk, thinking:  "Now, what can I call this thing that'll fool my customers into buying it, only to disappoint them when they receive it and find out it's not what they though they were buying?  Because that's how I stay in business, disappointing my customers.  Been doing it for years." 

It's an attempt give the product a better name than "Quiet Low Pressure Sub-Miniature Micro-Switch with Lever Actuator and Lighting-Friendly Pushbutton Mounting Bracket".  When you go to the store, do you ask the clerk:  Where are the Flying Plastic Discs?", or:  "Where are the Frisbees?"

[Santoro]

Well, I was dumb enough to think it was a 'mini' leaf switch at first glance, so I think the name is slightly ambiguous.    But Randy really can call it whatever the heck he wants.  I ordered some anyway because I want quiet swithes.

I am stupefied at the big deal being made about this. 

[saint]

We're arcade loving geeks - most of us have nothing better to do on weekend nights

[Kremmit]

We're arcade loving geeks - most of us have nothing better to do on weekend nights

Now that one hurts. 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I am stupefied at the big deal being made about this. 

Yeah. It's not like it's a broken Nintendo joystick.

[Xiaou2]

Patrick:


"A microswitch without a lever has a smaller activation distance than one with a lever."

 You dont understand the concepts Patrick.

 First off, the Mini Micros that Randy uses has the activator button very close to the
level pivot point.   This give an almost immidiate activation. 

 Also, a happ button has a long travel distance before it stops...  while a mini mirco
activation button has a much shorter travel.    Thus, If you put a mini micro (no lever)
directly under the button -  the button will smash very heavily into the switch and
eventually destroy it.    As the switch body is not meant to be impacted... and that
is what will happen - unless you changes the happ button so that it limited its
travel depth. 

 The micro lever allows near instant activation,  yet,  afterwards  - is free to
travel further.   This allows the happs button to travel the full distance down
without crashing into the micro.     Its a brilliant discovery actually.

 No, its not as good as a true leaf IMOP...  but it may be a step above
a typical micro.   

 It certainly activates faster than a larger micro - as Ive verified that personally.

[destructor]

Leaf, because it tries to emulate some of the characteristics of a leafswitch.

What chcaracteristics? Emulate Plunger? Show me plunger in leaf switch.

Wow, looks like it's time to change out all 14 switches in my cab.  I can't stand the "CLICK CLICK CLICK" of the Cherry switches.   Here's hoping you make some joystick switches too, I'd buy those as well.

Cherry has different types of microswitches, these with blue plunger have small click.
If you don't want any click go for japanese buttons and problem solved.

You say that name not mislead people. When I saw name of topic I say: Jisus new excellent leaf switches. I thought it until I read kowal's posts.

[Kremmit]

Leaf, because it tries to emulate some of the characteristics of a leafswitch.

What chcaracteristics? Emulate Plunger? Show me plunger in leaf switch.

Perhaps the word "some" isn't translating properly.

[Warborg]

We're arcade loving geeks - most of us have nothing better to do on weekend nights

Now this is blatently untrue!  I had some World of Warcraft to play, and then I was actually working on my cab instead of complaining about new parts for it... 

[patrickl]

What kind of doofus could possibly have been misled by that, when there's a PICTURE RIGHT THERE showing the microswitch.

Look at the initial replies. Several people there talking about real leaf switches.

It's not an attempt to mis-lead.  Does anybody really picture Randy sitting at his desk, thinking:  "Now, what can I call this thing that'll fool my customers into buying it, only to disappoint them when they receive it and find out it's not what they though they were buying?

Well I`d say he hopes the term leaf rubs off on his product and that the people who buy it are happy with the minimal improvement it gives over the normal micro switches.

[patrickl]

It certainly activates faster than a larger micro - as Ive verified that personally.

You have one laying around?

[Kremmit]

What kind of doofus could possibly have been misled by that, when there's a PICTURE RIGHT THERE showing the microswitch.

Look at the initial replies. Several people there talking about real leaf switches.

You should go look at the initial replies yourself.  I just re-read pages one and two, and I see people talking about real leafswitches alright, but I don't see anybody that thinks that these are real leafswitches. 

Well I`d say he hopes the term leaf rubs off on his product and that the people who buy it are happy with the minimal improvement it gives over the normal micro switches.

So, you:

a) admit these are an improvement over standard microswitches;
b) already know it's a "minimal" improvement, even though you haven't tried them?

[patrickl]

What kind of doofus could possibly have been misled by that, when there's a PICTURE RIGHT THERE showing the microswitch.

Look at the initial replies. Several people there talking about real leaf switches.

You should go look at the initial replies yourself.  I just re-read pages one and two, and I see people talking about real leafswitches alright, but I don't see anybody that thinks that these are real leafswitches. 

Some do.

Well I`d say he hopes the term leaf rubs off on his product and that the people who buy it are happy with the minimal improvement it gives over the normal micro switches.

So, you:

a) admit these are an improvement over standard microswitches;
b) already know it's a "minimal" improvement, even though you haven't tried them?

a) I never said otherwise. It has disadvantages and advantages. Overal it could be a minimal improvement for some.
b) Yes. It's not really different from what we have now. Besides, as shown before, I already have a "leaf joystick". So I'm obviously an expert in this cutting edge field of micro+leaf

[Xiaou2]

"You have one laying around?"

 As I posted, yes.

 I collect various electronic parts.   I also used to work in the arcades.   Anyways,
I have a mini micro.   My mini micro is slightly less efficient than Randy's cause the
activator point is not as close to the pivot point.   But, held in place by hand,
at the same angle as shown, I could easily see an improvement in actuation
distance over a standard microswitch.

 That said.. Im not sure I liked the feel of it. 


 Id still use real leafs in places of classic controls.    But might choose to add
these for fighters for example. 

[RandyT]

Pfft sure. This metal part on a switch is called a lever. You know perfectly well why instead you choose to call it a "leaf". Especially in the arcade scene here were leaf has a very different connotation from microswitch this an obvious attempt to mislead people.

Patrick.  I know there's a small language barrier with you (although not as much as others who are attempting to perpetuate this false notion) but you are starting to make yourself appear somewhat dim by constantly re-iterating this.

I inferred or outright stated that this was a microswitch several times in the description.  I will spell it out for you so it is clear...apologies for needing to quote myself.

"The only pushbutton switch to combine the best traits of both the classic leaf-style switch and the modern micro or "snap" switches."

I stated here that it combined the traits of the switches, not that it was a leaf-switch.  In fact, nowhere is it stated that these are leaf switches.  Don't you think that I would have made it quite clear that it was a leaf switch if it was indeed such a switch?

And a side note for those who haven't quite figured this out:  Microswitches with leaves, blades, levers, hinged metal plate actuators, ad nauseum, were created to fit into applications served earlier by leaf switches.  It's all about pre-travel, operating force, overtravel, and so on.  Simple microswitches can't approximate the action of a leaf-switch with just plunger actuation, so the blade arrangement was invented.  Internal to the switch used in the Micro-Leaf™, the parts are nearly identical, with the exception that pressure is not  placed on the contact point and the return component does not stress the arm holding the contacts, so misalignment does not occur.  It's also a more positive contact that is not prone to bounce.

The Micro-Leaf gets rid of the loud clicking

I didn't say "because it's a leaf switch, there is no clicking noise at all."  Don't you think I would have if this were the case?

Much like a leaf switch...

These 5 words draw a parallel, which specifically states that it is NOT the item it is being compared to.  It would be stupidly redundant to compare something against itself.

Actuation is fast and reset travel is tiny, making ultra-fast cycling a reality for the first time ever in a microswitch based arcade pushbutton.

If the others weren't enough, here I even stated quite clearly that the end result is a "microswitch based arcade pushbutton." ...Not leaf-switch based.

Pfft again. Smaller than what?

Smaller than conventional microswitches used in pushbuttons, obviously. 

A microswitch without a lever has a smaller activation distance than one with a lever........
.....
.....It has a very slight advantage (lighter activation) and a slight disadvantage (longer activation distance) over a regular microswitch.

Yes, and it also increases the resistance and the amount of feedback transferred.   A lighter activation is not a "slight advantage" and the throw is not longer.  You honestly couldn't be more wrong.

It is apparent that you are talking outside your area of expertise, which is exacerbated by the fact that you have no frame of reference with the product. 

RandyT

[Grasshopper]

Randy, this argument is ridiculous.

I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that there was no deliberate attempt on your part to deceive customers. However, the fact remains that the term "leaf" in this context has caused a great deal of confusion. This thread alone is evidence enough of that.

It's true that most people around here are experienced and will rapidly deduce from the pictures that you are in fact selling microswitches. However, someone new to the hobby might have heard somewhere that leaf switches offer a better feel without having actually seen a genuine leaf switch. Such a person could quite conceivably buy some of your switches based simply on the product's name, and then end up disappointed when he realises that he hasn't bought leaf switches after all.

Why not just change the name and move on? You don't even have to admit you're wrong. Just do it for the sake of good customer relations.

[Chris]

I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that there was no deliberate attempt on your part to deceive customers. However, the fact remains that the term "leaf" in this context has caused a great deal of confusion. This thread alone is evidence enough of that.

It hasn't brought about any confusion... it's brought out the hardcore passionate "Leaf switches are the best" crowd who are saying "How DARE you insinuate anything microswitch based could have anything to do with our beloved leaf switches?" and hiding it under "You're confusing the uninformed microswitch-using peasants" rhetoric.

[Grasshopper]

I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that there was no deliberate attempt on your part to deceive customers. However, the fact remains that the term "leaf" in this context has caused a great deal of confusion. This thread alone is evidence enough of that.

It hasn't brought about any confusion... it's brought out the hardcore passionate "Leaf switches are the best" crowd who are saying "How DARE you insinuate anything microswitch based could have anything to do with our beloved leaf switches?" and hiding it under "You're confusing the uninformed microswitch-using peasants" rhetoric.

Well there might be an element of that as well.

But whatever... It still doesn't alter the fact that Randy should just change the name. Problem solved.

[leapinlew]

I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that there was no deliberate attempt on your part to deceive customers. However, the fact remains that the term "leaf" in this context has caused a great deal of confusion. This thread alone is evidence enough of that.

It hasn't brought about any confusion... it's brought out the hardcore passionate "Leaf switches are the best" crowd who are saying "How DARE you insinuate anything microswitch based could have anything to do with our beloved leaf switches?" and hiding it under "You're confusing the uninformed microswitch-using peasants" rhetoric.

 

I'm going to order them, and I suspect many other folks ordered them. How about we reserve judgment till after we get some reviews? I'm very excited about these buttons. I mean, whens the last time we had a functional change in buttons?

[Chris]

But whatever... It still doesn't alter the fact that Randy should just change the name. Problem solved.

To satisfy who?  The people who are complaining obviously aren't going to buy them no matter what they're called.  Unless you're suggesting that someone is going to say next year "Well, Randy's come out with this great new product but I won't buy it because last year he sold a microswitch with "leaf" in the name".

[kowal]

you have right to call this how you want

from today every has this right

Ponyboy sells japan - leaf
japan - because they are Japanese
leaf - because they act similarly to leafswich

they do not click
they are tender
they are soft
this is good equivalent leaf swich
obviously they are not  "leaf - switch" but today was it been possible was to name japan - leaf. he can call it how it wants

 I put to STC joystick microswiches on Hall effect. I will get electronic joystick!
I can name  him Ultra STC. he is cheaper from U360 and it also uses Hall effect.

[destructor]

Hehe, and begginers will buy these all leaf products and next throw to trash because ... where is leaf?

Where? You don't know? Leaf is in seller's money bag 

[Chris]

Except beginners who can't tell from the pictures that it's not a true leaf won't be able to tell any more in person.  But the switch will work well so they won't care.

[RandyT]

Hehe, and begginers will buy these all leaf products and next throw to trash because ... where is leaf?

The percentage of people using leaf buttons is in the single digits compared to those who are using the clicky, full-size microswitches.  This group of "beginners" you speak of exists only in your imagination.  And next to the average microswitch, they will find these a blessing.

Where? You don't know? Leaf is in seller's money bag 

Very clever.   

RandyT

[bfauska]

I usually try to be supportive of people who have learned to use more than one language, but it does seem odd that before mastering a language that is foreign to them, they would try to enforce some elevated level of product descriptions and naming in that language.  Then, when shown dictionary definitions exemplifying that the word in question is being used the exact same way in both item names, claim that "common" usage of the word should hold precedent.

Other than the fact that it is a micro-switch actuated by a leaf of metal (which should be enough to justify the name) it is also a micro-switch with leaf like tendencies. 

If somebody "knows" that leaf-switches are better than micros and buys these on accident, then maybe the only reason they "knew" in the first place was because they had read the one-sided-blind-praise of the overzealous and never done any worthwhile research on the appearance, size, or operation of leaf-switches in the first place.  Those people are not going to make a well informed decision no matter what the product description says, or what the photo shows.  Randy's description and photo clearly show what the product is, in fact it shows it well enough that somebody has found a nearly identical component of Randy's product from another supplier.  Nobody but Randy has any of these switches in-hand yet, but somehow the whole thread is filled with the knowledge of the fact that these are not leaf-switches, clearly that information was gleaned from the product description and photo's, SO HOW ARE THEY MISLEADING?

GTFOI and STFU.  Seriously.

[2600]

FYI, we have used the term Microleaf at BYOAC before with no problems before.  The Wico Microleaf joystick is the microswitch version of the Wico Leaf joystick with the rubber grommet. 

[Level42]

Other than the fact that it is a micro-switch actuated by a leaf of metal (which should be enough to justify the name).... 

Hey look: A whole page of leaf switches !


Come'on let's be serious. This NOT a leaf switch and it should NOT be called a leaf switch.

That's the last I say about that, as I am much more interested in the product itself than it's name. Bottom line is that Randy has come up with a range of great products for us. And I hope this kind of discussion won't discourage him. So he made a "less fortunate" decision on naming this. Let's move on and judge the product FROM EXPERIENCE.

Patrick...maak je niet zo druk over een naam...relax  

[Kremmit]

Uggh.  I can't believe I let myself get sucked into such a stupid discussion internet ego battle.  I blame last night's beers.

I quit.  This is dumb and I'm embarrassed to have even been involved.

[bfauska]

Hey look: A whole page of leaf switches !

Or what I may call a  whole page of Leaf actuated micro-switches.  I'd prefer that when I am quoted the response has something more direct to do with my post.  I didn't say they were leaf-switches I said they were micro-switches that used a leaf to trigger them.  As such, I would consider it fair play to call these Micro-leaf switches too.  I suppose the problem is that the word leaf is directly followed by the word switch.  Maybe Leaf-Micro switch would be more appropriate, but then the word leaf is first so clearly the insinuation is that it is a leaf switch.  If people could get over their no-hands-on speculative engineering and realize that the name is about the performance as much or more than it is about the mechanics maybe we'd reach a truce.

I don't know if you all realize this or not, but there is not, in fact, a wizard locked away in all of those LED, GP, and Key Wiz products out there, yet their performance seems that way sometimes.  No leaf-switch in the Micro Leaf, but it is supposed to behave more like there is than other micro-switch options.

[jcoleman]

Please, everyone read the following

http://bloggingexperiment.com/archives/the-art-of-ewar.php

before continuing this asinine thread derailment.

Coleman

PS Yes I have learned my lesson.

[patrickl]

Patrick...maak je niet zo druk over een naam...relax  

I'm relaxed. It's not even the name itself. That warrants maybe a quick quip (as exactly how this started) It's more the BS to turn the blame on the people who question the name that keeps me involved.

For instance, when he blames the "confusion" on peoples "poor command of the English language" is just too weak. In the catalog he orders these switches from, they are called Sub-Miniature Lever Microswitch. Then he bolts a piece of plastic on it and all of a sudden it's a micro-leaf switch?

Don't give us the BS. Just take the shame and be done with it. At the very least get off your high horse and accept that you will be called out on an obvious ploys like this.

How many people read the title and assumed it was actually about micro leaf switches (as in small leaf switches)? ie a small version of a Leafswitch + Bracket that Ponyboy sells.

[Chris]

Personally, I'm glad it's not the same... after spending all weekend troubleshooting and adjusting leaf switches in an old pinball machine I'll be perfectly happy to never see a real leaf again.

[ringram]

What's in a name?

At the end of the day, it's just a name. The bottom line is, is it a good product? Is it worth what you paid for it?

I'm not going to enter into the argument of these being equal to leaf switches, of if the name is mis-leading or not (many examples of that in marketing). My question is, does anybody actually have any of these yet? Have you had a chance to use them for a while? How do they compare to "regular old switches"?

[Chris]

My question is, does anybody actually have any of these yet? Have you had a chance to use them for a while? How do they compare to "regular old switches"?

And just who do you think you are asking a reasonable, appropriate question on this thread?  The nerve of some people.

[RandyT]

FYI, we have used the term Microleaf at BYOAC before with no problems before.

"Are you, or were you ever, a member of LSNAP, AKA The Leaf-Switch Name Abuse Party?"

Names, man!  We need NAMES!!!

 

[patrickl]

Those joysticks indeed contain the same "leaf" switches yes.

[RandyT]

In the catalog he orders these switches from, they are called Sub-Miniature Lever Microswitch.

Patrick, do you work for a psychic hot-line or something?  You presume to know everything about everything, including the motivation and mind sets of others, yet you are very often  incorrect.  The manufacturers product sheet I used for reference when placing my orders states quite simply "Snap Action Switches", which is the actual technical term for this and all "microswitches."  The part you are referring to as a "lever", is referred to by the manufacturer quite simply as a "moving blade"  The word lever is not mentioned once in the documentation.

And this should really get your knickers in a knot.  Guess what this obviously "skilled in the art" individual is calling what you call a "leaf-switch".  That's correct, a "blade switch" 

How many people read the title and assumed it was actually about micro leaf switches (as in small leaf switches)? ie a small version of a Leafswitch + Bracket that Ponyboy sells.

I guess that's where the issue lies.  You assumed rather than read.  I would appreciate it greatly if you would stop trying to make that my problem.

And as I said before.  Those too are just "switches bolted to a piece of plastic", and my customers told me that they are no longer available and wanted alternatives.  So your problem seems to extend to something deeper that you are not discussing.

Micro-Leaf™ <> Leaf-Switch.  Different words mean different things.  Please accept this as fact, not because I say so, but because it is so.

RandyT

[Santoro]

OK So I got mine today.  I now have a Cherry micro, a Ponyboy leaf switch adapters, and a Micro-leaf in my cp all next to each other.  The micro-leaf is barely audible underneath my 3/4 inch CP.  It a tiny, tiny bit louder than a leaf switch, but much quieter than the Cherry micro.

I haven't played with them yet, I'll do that tonight and report back.  Pressing it definitely feels more leaf-like than micro-like.  So far I am defending Randy's name,  I think people should really try these before hyperventilating about it.

[kowal]

blade switches

[Tiger-Heli]

a Ponyboy leaf switch,

I assume by this you mean the leaf adapters in the Happ buttons, not the Japanese Ponyboy leaf switch which uses a micro-switch posted earlier in this thread, correct?

[RandyT]

Did you ask Saint for permission before posting his picture?

[Santoro]

a Ponyboy leaf switch,

I assume by this you mean the leaf adapters in the Happ buttons, not the Japanese Ponyboy leaf switch which uses a micro-switch posted earlier in this thread, correct?

Yes, didn't realize the latter existed. 

[Level42]

OK So I got mine today.  I now have a Cherry micro, a Ponyboy leaf switch adapters, and a Micro-leaf in my cp all next to each other.  The micro-leaf is barely audible underneath my 3/4 inch CP.  It a tiny, tiny bit louder than a leaf switch, but much quieter than the Cherry micro.

I haven't played with them yet, I'll do that tonight and report back.  Pressing it definitely feels more leaf-like than micro-like.  So far I am defending Randy's name,  I think people should really try these before hyperventilating about it.

This is a lot more interesting than the name debate to me. Could you shoot some video ? Would be great 

[Tiger-Heli]

Yes, didn't realize the latter existed. 

Actually, neither did I until Kowal's post.  I'm interested in hearing how they play-test!!!

[Avrus]

Since several posters on here seem to have psychic powers and know what 'newbies' will think looking at the thread.

I'm a relative newbie.

I took one look at the pictures and said: 'Oh look, a microswitch activated with leaf type movement.'  I didn't even bother to read the description, which is quite clear about the product description.

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

[Tiger-Heli]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

[Avrus]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

It's okay, I'll just ask questions about how to top mount a joystick and trackball with routing instructions.

 

[Kremmit]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

It's okay, I'll just ask questions about how to top mount a joystick and trackball with routing instructions.

 

Oh, come on.. can't you ask us what's the "best" joystick, or where to download a complete set of romz in one huge .zip file or something?  Don't you need to know where to put the "O" and "K" buttons?

Worst.. n00b.. Ever.

[Avrus]

There was no confusion at all in my mind.

That's disappointing.  We'll have to try harder to make things confusing so this forum will still have a purpose (other than debating whether broken Nintendo joysticks are really broken). 

It's okay, I'll just ask questions about how to top mount a joystick and trackball with routing instructions.

 

Oh, come on.. can't you ask us what's the "best" joystick, or where to download a complete set of romz in one huge .zip file or something?  Don't you need to know where to put the "O" and "K" buttons?

Worst.. n00b.. Ever.

Hey I have a pristine Ms Pacman cabinet and a Galaga cabinet and I'm going to gut them and MAME them and then sell them with the MAME and ROMS.  What do you think?

 

[metahacker]

well, i got these switches.

they're much better than all the standard microswitch buttons.

they're the perfect compromise between a leaf and a typical microswitch.

the leaf is a great unit for the purist.  it requires extra effort to acquire and 'tune.' 
the typical microswitch is, well, loud obnoxious modern cheapness. but they are easy to get & install.

randy's unit has a great feel to it and fits into the stock button holder easily.  it's great.

if you want to go full bore and be true to the old school arcade gangster purity, use leaf.
that is fine.
 
but there is no excuse now to use a regular microswitch   microleaf is better

these are quiet and feel nice and you dont have to f' around to use them.  they just plug in to what most people already have / can get most easily.

yeah yeah... everyone is all busy chattering because he called it 'micro leaf' .. and put the holy "leaf" word in there.  well, the metal leaf LEVER (not switch) actuating the micro switch gives it a specific feel.
 

[BobA]

Sounds good.   Can't wait for mine but the border police have to take their whack at them first.

What's in a name.

Hot Dogs hopefully have no dog.
Hamburgers seldom have ham.
French Fries are not French
Denver Sandwiches don't come from Denver
Big Macs are not at all BIG

Philly Cheese Steaks do have cheese, and steak and are from Philly... They are the exception to the name game.


 

[SodaPopinksi]

I too have the micro-leafs, plus ponyboy's leaf adapter, regular leafs and cherry microswitches to compare. I also haven't set up the micro-leafs to test playing them yet, BUT I can certainly confirm that they feel much more smooth and are much more quiet than the regular microswitches. A definite improvement over microswitches and I would love to see a joystick that can utilize them. Regular cherry microswitches feel "clunky" in comparison to the micro-leaf's smooth and quiet actuation. Like Santoro said they are'nt as quiet as a regular leafswitch, but they are much more quiet than a cherry microswitch.

I can also confirm these work just fine with Ultralux buttons. I was going to use ponyboy's leaf adapters on the Ultralux but you have to mod them slightly to work properly on those buttons so I'll be using the micro-leafs instead.

[ahofle]

I vote Randy removes the 'micro' from the name just to see if someone around here has a coronary. 

[JMB]

This entire incident could have been avoided if Randy would just spend his time finishing the new 49-ways rather than coming out with other cool products.

[Green Giant]

Sounds good.   Can't wait for mine but the border police have to take their whack at them first.

What's in a name.

Hot Dogs hopefully have no dog.
Hamburgers seldom have ham.
French Fries are not French
Denver Sandwiches don't come from Denver
Big Macs are not at all BIG

Philly Cheese Steaks do have cheese, and steak and are from Philly... They are the exception to the name game.

I got a really weird hamburger in mexico once with bread, lettuce, tomato, ground beef patty, cheese, and a slice of HAM.

They aren't called french fries, they are freedom fries, where have you been, the 90's?

[MikeQ]

I've always wondered why a "shipment" is sent by truck or plane and "cargo" is sent by a ship.

Anyway, Randy is the most proliferate innovator the BYOAC has.  We shouldn't quibble over petty things like product names.  We are lucky to have vendors like him supporting the hobby.

[Kaytrim]

Anyway, Randy is the most proliferate innovator the BYOAC has.  We shouldn't quibble over petty things like product names.  We are lucky to have vendors like him supporting the hobby.

I have stayed out of this thread since the name game debate started.  I totally agree with you Mike.

This entire incident could have been avoided if Randy would just spend his time finishing the new 49-ways rather than coming out with other cool products.

While I too am anxiously waiting for the new 49-way sticks and interfaces I don't think that its worth berating Randy about them.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[Avrus]

You park on a driveway, but you drive on a parkway.

 

[Tiger-Heli]

Gotta love George Carlin:  "What should you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant?"

[Avrus]

Pulled the loud clicky trigger on 10 of these.   

[Jouster]

Gotta love George Carlin:  "What should you do when you see an endangered animal eating an endangered plant?"

If they are both endangered...they must taste really good (or they wouldn't have been hunted or picked into that stauts)...kill 'em both and have a bar-b-q!

Jouster

[Level42]

yes yes, enough about the names. I dare Patrick to come up with some good Dutch names for both Micro Switch and Leaf Switch.  Both terms are simply used in English here (as so many others).

Great to finally read some info from people who actually have the product in hands. As I already said, this sounds like a sweet alternative where real leafs won't fit, but would love to kick out the regular microswitches.

[Circo]

You have to love the fact that as soon as someone got one and said they work great.... The fighting stopped.   

[patrickl]

You have to love the fact that as soon as someone got one and said they work great.... The fighting stopped.   

It lasted until Randy finally came with a straight answer.

I have to admit I still have a hard time accepting that someone like Randy would not know that this choice of actuator is called a lever (as opposed to plunger or roller), but I do accept that this has nothing to do with the issue of the name (which was my point to begin with).

I also think there is a legitimate reason to question the abuse of the word leaf. One of the people claiming the discussion is useless was actually contemplating buying the dreaded "Chinese leaf joysticks" a few weeks ago. Just because of the word leaf in the product name.

If people just wouldn't throw a hissy fit when someone asks a question that is seen as "negative", things would be over a lot faster.

Don't forget that it's the critical people who desire better products that drive the sellers to come up with better products too.

Besides, you have to be pretty damned critical yourself to pay almost $3 for a switch to replace the $0.30 one that you have been using before. Critical people actually create the market. So don't be so overly critical of people being critical.

[RandyT]

I have to admit I still have a hard time accepting that someone like Randy would not know that this choice of actuator is called a lever (as opposed to plunger or roller)...

[patrickl]

What's more silly though, holding the dead horse up claiming it lives or beating it while it's being held up?

[Anubis_au]

So after five pages of ---smurfette----fighting, can someone tell me if these are actualy good?

Randy, I assume these micro-leaf switches work with the novagem buttons?

[Circo]

Well hopefully someone will close this thread and open a review thread.

 

[blueznl]

Just send me a few and I will do an indepth and totally unbiassed review 

[RandyT]

Randy, I assume these micro-leaf switches work with the novagem buttons?

Yes. Tested with EI, NovaGem, HAPP Horizonal, IL and Betson pushbuttons.  They leave plenty of room for the lighting as well.

RandyT

*edit*  Quite a number of these have shipped so I would expect other independent reviews to be forthcoming. 

[metahacker]

So after five pages of ---smurf----fighting, can someone tell me if these are actualy good?

they're wonderful. 

the switch adds nothing undesirable to the experience. 
you are basically tapping the button mechanism and the switch is reading it.    you barely know its there.

UNLIKE the regular microswitches where the little cherry clicker down in there is taking front stage
and making sure you know that there is a little clicking microswitch down there soaking up all your button pushing energy.

these just let the button be what it is and read what youre doing.   much more passive.

you can do the original arcade style 'how fast can i move my finger' style button tapping instead of 'how fast can i click this button'

know what i mean?

plus they fit nicely with those kick ass rgb led boards  


i dont really see the point of using anything else...  these get the job done perfectly, dont make any noise and shouldnt require tweaking or additional physical space.   

standard leaf switches are always great for authenticity and 100% purist accuracy in feel. 
but after installing these i no longer yearn for them.

[Warborg]

What's more silly though, holding the dead horse up claiming it lives or beating it while it's being held up?

Can we say "Gotta get the last word in..."

[More Cowbell]

I, myself, can't wait to order some of these microswitches that act and respond like leaf switches. The name "micro-leaf" seems to fit them perfectly.

[Zero_Hour]

Randy, any idea on an ETA for a joystick version of these Micro-Leaf™ switches?

[polaris]

Randy, any idea on an ETA for a joystick version of these Micro-Leaf™ switches?

he finished them days ago ,he just cant decide on a name for them,

[Avrus]

Randy, any idea on an ETA for a joystick version of these Micro-Leaf™ switches?

he finished them days ago ,he just cant decide on a name for them,

I vote for:

Happy dolphin almost metal switch for better controlling while moving wrist in game.

[Jouster]

Hmmm, how about Joystick Micro-L.e.a.p.h.™ (Little Electronic Activator Pushbutton Hammer)...or something?

Jouster

[leapinlew]

I vote for Super Happy Funtime Megaforce Alpha Stick

[nostrebor]

Yeah, it's hard to use the word "joy" in a product that some folks could potentially get sooooo bitter about.

[FrizzleFried]

My problem is that I need to come up with other stuff I need from GGG because I can in no way justify spending $6.95 on the cheapest shipping for 5 "Micro-leaf" switches...  so when I need other stuff,  I will add these items.

[bfauska]

My problem is that I need to come up with other stuff I need from GGG because I can in no way justify spending $6.95 on the cheapest shipping for 5 "Micro-leaf" switches...  so when I need other stuff,  I will add these items.

Frizzle,

I have a giant list of things I could use from GGG.  How about I PM you my list, you order it and have it and your switches shipped to my house (you pay for everything of course) and I'll pick up the shipping costs to your house from mine for your switches. That way you don't spend a disproportionate amount on shipping and I don't spend anything at all.  Sounds good to me. 

[FrizzleFried]

My problem is that I need to come up with other stuff I need from GGG because I can in no way justify spending $6.95 on the cheapest shipping for 5 "Micro-leaf" switches...  so when I need other stuff,  I will add these items.

Frizzle,

I have a giant list of things I could use from GGG.  How about I PM you my list, you order it and have it and your switches shipped to my house (you pay for everything of course) and I'll pick up the shipping costs to your house from mine for your switches. That way you don't spend a disproportionate amount on shipping and I don't spend anything at all.  Sounds good to me. 

Note I said "NEED" not "WANT" because I too could come up with quite a hefty list of things I "WANT"...unfortunately,  "WANT" doesn't matter all too much right now financially.

[RandyT]

If you only order 6 or fewer switches and that's it, we'll throw them in a small padded envelope, send them "First Class" and only charge you $3.00. We've done that a number of times for small orders in the past.

With postal rates and shipping supplies costing what they do, that's about the best I can do, even for small orders.

RandyT

[bfauska]

Note I said "NEED" not "WANT" because I too could come up with quite a hefty list of things I "WANT"...unfortunately,  "WANT" doesn't matter all too much right now financially.

LAME... I thought it was a great idea.

Although Randy's solution sounds reasonable too, but if anybody else has Frizzle's dilemma my offer stands.

[FrizzleFried]

If you only order 6 or fewer switches and that's it, we'll throw them in a small padded envelope, send them "First Class" and only charge you $3.00. We've done that a number of times for small orders in the past.

With postal rates and shipping supplies costing what they do, that's about the best I can do, even for small orders.

RandyT

How do I take advantage of this deal?  I want 6....

[RandyT]

Just order and drop a line in the comments box saying you want first class.  If it's a small order of small parts, it's no problem shipping that way.


RandyT

[johnperkins21]

I, myself, can't wait to order some of these microswitches that act and respond like leaf switches. The name "micro-leaf" seems to fit them perfectly.

I agree wholeheartedly. Makes me glad I've put off working on my cab until the winter. Now if only Randy had some new 49-ways to go along with these buttons...

While I too am anxiously waiting for the new 49-way sticks and interfaces I don't think that its worth berating Randy about them.

TTFN
Kaytrim

Apparently we disagree here. 

[RetroJames]

Is there a version of this thread with all the hijacks and ninny-bitching removed?


Anywhoo .... Is there any word on joystick compatible versions of these? Love my T-Sticks, hate the T-Clicks.

[Level42]

All I can say is that I tried one of the "leaf switches that fit on microswitch button" on my Centipede and that I replaced it with a micro-leaf after I had done a LOT of tweaking to get the leaf less "tight" feeling, which failed....

That says a lot because I am a leaf-lover.

The best leaf I have so far is the 27 year old one on my Galaxian. Silky sweet.

But the Micro-Leaf is without a doubt the best solution when you want (have to) use a MS-button.

[RetroJames]

All I can say is that I tried one of the "leaf switches that fit on microswitch button" on my Centipede and that I replaced it with a micro-leaf after I had done a LOT of tweaking to get the leaf less "tight" feeling, which failed....

That says a lot because I am a leaf-lover.

The best leaf I have so far is the 27 year old one on my Galaxian. Silky sweet.

But the Micro-Leaf is without a doubt the best solution when you want (have to) use a MS-button.

I really liked the leaf on a micro switch button deals but I'd like to give these a try too.

Really need something for my t-sticks though.

[Tiger-Heli]

Is there a version of this thread with all the hijacks and ninny-bitching removed?

In a thread Randy started?  (You are kidding, right?)

Anywhoo .... Is there any word on joystick compatible versions of these? Love my T-Sticks, hate the T-Clicks.

There's always ejfayel's paper trick.

[RetroJames]

Is there a version of this thread with all the hijacks and ninny-bitching removed?

In a thread Randy started?  (You are kidding, right?)

Anywhoo .... Is there any word on joystick compatible versions of these? Love my T-Sticks, hate the T-Clicks.

There's always ejfayel's paper trick.

Saw that, I may have to give it a shot.

[richyrich888]

Although this thread is now old, just thought i might mention i have just received a bag of these switches which are destined for my new control panel. (current panel has Cherry micro switches   ...have heard as much clicking as i can take !)

Have just fitted one to a standard Happs button and fitted into panel.  Would just like to say THANK YOU to the guy that bothered to source these / mate them with microswitch pushbuttons. Much, much quieter. No click noise at all compared to the cherry microswitch's I've been using. Have also noted a much smoother / lighter button press, without any of the resistance i get from the cherrys.

 1  customer

got exactly what I expected after reading the description in the advert for them on the groovygamegear website:

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=309

I had considered the leaf switch conversion for the happs microswitch buttons which are available here :

http://www.arcadeshop.de/Button-Parts-Leaf--vs-Microswitch_566.html

I will probably try them at a later date, and see how they feel, but for now they lost out on the grounds that they would probably take lots of fiddling with / adjusting.