Soft-15KHz - slim new tool for 15KHz on normal vga cards

[Haggar]

- Project "PSremote" -
A "remote control" for PowerStrip to move/resize the image "on-the-fly" without rebooting or messing with the modelines.

Step 1: Move it!... *DONE*

Step 2: Resize it!... *DONE*

Step 3: Nice UI ala AdvV... *under construction*

Step 4: Go for world domination!

--

Well my first real achivement is that I can move the image on screen without touching anything.
Next will be "resizing" of the screen, which most likely will be a little more complicatet that it seems.

As for now, It is just a "remote control" using PowerStrip (which is running the background to provide low-level access).

Stay tuned

Hey Sailor how's your project going on?
I'm very anxious to see it 

[SailorSat]

Actually PowerStrip seems to be messing something up.
It basically works however.

[Silver]

Actually PowerStrip seems to be messing something up.
It basically works however.

Not sure what your problem is, but I recall ages ago having lots of trouble with powerstrip and low pclocks - it would lockup/go really slow/be generally weird without a clean error message when you set it to a display with a low pclock.

 The author lowered the pclock floor for me a couple of times in some old betas which were successful in removing the problem. I believe these changes remain. Can't remember what the current hardcoded floor is, think it was below 5Mhz...

(no idea what issue you are having though)

[SailorSat]

The issue actually is that I read a "timing string" from powerstrip, and write it back without modifications, which SHOULDN'T change anything at all, however it actually messes the cards output completely...

Happens both with a good old Matrox Millenium PCI, as well as several other cards I've tried.

[Silver]

Ah, in that case can't help... only time I've had problems anything like that is when it turns out there is plenty of difference with UTF-8 vs UTF-16 vs whatever-txt-encoding.... just not easy to see!

[Nemss316]

I'm having some trouble on my config. as well, and am trying to figure out what to do.

I have my mame.ini files set to hwstretch 1 switchres 0. I get full screen on my games w/ no issues; but the problem i'm having is that some of my games aren't 100% smooth. SF2 for instance, when I throw a fireball, sometimes it disappears from the screen. When the player is still, the game displays perfect. But when I jump, its almost as if the game gets "jittery". Same goes for the rest of the SF games, and some other games as well. I can play the games, but when I see them run on my LCD, i realize how much cleaner the games are running on my regular PC.

FYI: I'm running a 2.4 P4, 1.5 GB of RAM, onboard sound, GeForce FX 5200. I'm using Soft15Khz, and d/l the AutoRes tool from Ultimarc. My MAME version is .112

Any Ideas?

Thanks,

Jason

[northerngames]

I'm having some trouble on my config. as well, and am trying to figure out what to do.

I have my mame.ini files set to hwstretch 1 switchres 0.

you got the two backwards 

[Nemss316]

I switched them around, and SF2 and most of my other games are small and centered w/ huge black borders around it.

Did I miss something?

[Haggar]

Try using these settings:

Use this settings for mame:
HARDWARE STRETCH MUST BE OFF
YOU MUST USE DIRECT-DRAW NOT DIRECT3D
SWITCH RESOLUTIONS MUST BE ENABLED

The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres

[SailorSat]

Behold! The Immolator!... Err... Whatever

http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/psremote.zip <- consider IT a "proof of concept" plaything...

Controls are...

ESC = Fallback to defaults
ENTER = exit tool

Up/Down/Left/Right = Move the image (if possible)

Page Up/Page Down = Shrink/Expand image in height

Delete/End = Shrink/Expand image in width.


However please not that for some reason Shrinkin/Expanding the image most likely ---smurfs--- up powerstrip.

[FrizzleFried]

Runtime Error 9 - Subscript out of range?

That's what I get when I attempt to run `er.

[SailorSat]

You need to have PowerStrip running

[Ummon]

I switched them around, and SF2 and most of my other games are small and centered w/ huge black borders around it.

Did I miss something?

Try using these settings:

Use this settings for mame:
HARDWARE STRETCH MUST BE OFF
YOU MUST USE DIRECT-DRAW NOT DIRECT3D
SWITCH RESOLUTIONS MUST BE ENABLED

The command-line switches to do this if running Mame from a command line are:
-video ddraw -nohwstretch -switchres

Even more so, Nem needs to learn how to use mame, or mame32/UI as it's all in front of you then.

[Ummon]

You need to have PowerStrip running

I remember seeing something like this in Power Strip itself but perhaps more complicated? Essentially your tool is just a specialized app to make PS do this without having to delve into it? And it's not necessary to load modes via PS, just have it running, right?

[SailorSat]

Yup.
Basically you would need to define hotkeys, as the default PowerStrip Controls don't work too well with lower resolutions.

[Haggar]

I've tryed the PSRemote.
It worked well for some resolutions.
With 321x240 and 304x240 when I've tryed to move the image, all screwed up, and I had to restart (esc key hasn't worked). After reboot, I had again the screwed up res. At second reboot it returned ok to 640x480.

One question: when you hit enter, it saves the modeline modified in the registry? To return at initial point I have to do an unistall-install?

[SailorSat]

Actually PowerStrip saves whatever resolution you tweaked...
To get back to stock, just don't start powerstrip

[Ummon]

Gotta love beta testing.

[Texasmame]

I'm using a T.V.

Would there be any benefit to me using this software?

[retrometro]

I'm using a T.V.

Would there be any benefit to me using this software?

I don't think any standard TV's will multisync to different resolutions / refresh rates, etc.  So no.

[SailorSat]

Infact they do, as long as the signal is 15khz, and is fed via RGB.

[Texasmame]

K.  Thx.  Using SVid, so looks like a no here.

[Ummon]

Try 640x480 interlaced. This is a default mode as long as 31khz modes aren't loaded (in which case it becomes VGA).

[Haggar]

Has anyone a 640x240@50Hz modeline (for Amiga games)?

[shiloh]

Hello everyone

Today I received a new WG D9800 monitor for my cab. I do have an ArcadeVGA in my cab but I am testing on a separate computer Soft15khz and the new monitor to see if I'll switch to soft15k in my cab when installing the monitor.

So far it was pretty easy. However when I run games in standard resolution, they look good, I would say as good as my old standard resolution WG with the ArcadeVGA, but the OSD on the D9800 says it's running at a 31khz resolution not 15k.

what's wrong?

I am using a 6800gt with forceware 93.71. I have removed some modes to make sure there was less than 32 resolutions defined. Mame is set to ddraw, hwstretch off and swtichres on. I made sure that mame use the right resolution (checked by using the verbose mode or forcing the right resolution)

medium resolution seems to be ok and are reported as 25khz by the monitor OSD.

thanks all, much appreciated.

[northerngames]

are you using the avres tool from ultimarc so that mame runs them at the correct display res or are you using stock mame res settings wich would give you 31K mode's

[shiloh]

I didnt use AVRES but I have done INI files for the ROM I use to make sure the games run in the correct 15K resolution. I have confirmed that it is in fact the case but turning on verbose mode on MAME and checking the used resolution. Mame is definitely using the correct 15k resolution

[random92]

Hey lads...what I want to know is, is it possible to output 240p to a normal crt tv by component? No SCART tvs in the US, unfortunately.
I have a radeon HD2900 if that matters. 480i just looks terrible for classic games. I used to think it looked decent until I bothered to play my old systems again.

[Ummon]

I didnt use AVRES but I have done INI files for the ROM I use to make sure the games run in the correct 15K resolution. I have confirmed that it is in fact the case but turning on verbose mode on MAME and checking the used resolution. Mame is definitely using the correct 15k resolution

....some good pictures of the display running, if you can. And it's possible, as with my 6200, that your 6800 is doubling the refresh. What does it say in the OSD in-game on that?

Hey lads...what I want to know is, is it possible to output 240p to a normal crt tv by component? No SCART tvs in the US, unfortunately.
I have a radeon HD2900 if that matters. 480i just looks terrible for classic games. I used to think it looked decent until I bothered to play my old systems again.

What systems? If you mean console, they were all on SD TVs, which of course were 480i.

[shiloh]

I didnt use AVRES but I have done INI files for the ROM I use to make sure the games run in the correct 15K resolution. I have confirmed that it is in fact the case but turning on verbose mode on MAME and checking the used resolution. Mame is definitely using the correct 15k resolution

....some good pictures of the display running, if you can. And it's possible, as with my 6200, that your 6800 is doubling the refresh. What does it say in the OSD in-game on that?

I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

is there something that need to be tweaked to have a 15k resolution or I need to switch to another card?

Pictures are available here: http://cid-e4ecfba58f51d061.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public?authkey=IDiSaNorwhM%24

here is the verbose output of mame -v pacman:


Parsing mame.ini
Parsing mame.ini
Video: Monitor 00010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
DirectDraw: Using DirectDraw 7
DirectDraw: Configuring device NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT
Target refresh = 60.606061
DirectDraw: Selecting video mode...
   640x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.906187
   256x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.276497
   256x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.281695
   288x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.273001
   296x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.272416
   304x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271903
   321x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.271001
   321x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.271844
   336x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.270362
   352x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.270362
   352x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.270687
   352x 288@ 60Hz -> 70.016089
   368x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.269333
   384x 288@ 60Hz -> 68.475332
   392x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.268760
   401x 256@ 60Hz -> 62.268913
   448x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267814
   512x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.267119
   512x 288@ 60Hz -> 65.724359
   512x 448@ 60Hz -> 64.491323
   512x 512@ 60Hz -> 64.213469
   632x 264@ 60Hz -> 62.266461
   640x 240@ 60Hz -> 62.266302
   640x 288@ 60Hz -> 64.662233
   720x 480@ 60Hz -> 63.715530
   800x 600@ 60Hz -> 63.389011
  1024x 768@ 60Hz -> 63.044791
DirectDraw: Mode selected =  352x 288@ 60Hz
DirectDraw: primary surface created: 352x288x32 (R=00FF0000 G=0000FF00 B=000000FF)
DirectDraw: New blit size = 224x288
DirectDraw: blit surface created: 224x288x32 (R=00FF0000 G=0000FF00 B=000000FF)
DirectSound: Primary buffer: 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels
RawInput: APIs detected
Input: Adding Mouse #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0713&Col02#7&ccc6a60&0&0001#{378de44c-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
Input: Adding Gun #1: \??\HID#Vid_045e&Pid_0713&Col02#7&ccc6a60&0&0001#{378de44c-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
Input: Adding Kbd #1: \??\HID#Vid_06a3&Pid_8020&MI_00#7&21e641d9&0&0000#{884b96c3-56ef-11d1-bc8c-00a0c91405dd}
DirectInput: Using DirectInput 7

[random92]

What systems? If you mean console, they were all on SD TVs, which of course were 480i.

no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....
thanks

[Ummon]

What systems? If you mean console, they were all on SD TVs, which of course were 480i.

no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....
thanks

I don't know what consoles you're talking about that wouldn't be used on a TV. Maybe an EDO or something?

I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Ahn-huh, notice the refresh. It's 101hz. It still gives natural scanlines - check my sig to learn why - but the refresh is doubled, or close to. However, there could be a cap to that on your monitor, meaning some games will need a range of up to 125hz to be able to display.

[SailorSat]

I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

Does that happen on "more" resolutions or just one or two?
Test with quickres pls.

Right now I'm pretty clueless, as I've heard of that problem (NVidia only) several times now, but can't reproduce it on any of my cards

*EDIT*
You're sure you only remove resolutions with the customXXkhz.txt files?

[SailorSat]

no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....

You're right, however I don't know enough about that TV encoder chips.
All I can tell is that they resample the image from the framebuffer

[shiloh]

I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

Does that happen on "more" resolutions or just one or two?
Test with quickres pls.

Right now I'm pretty clueless, as I've heard of that problem (NVidia only) several times now, but can't reproduce it on any of my cards

*EDIT*
You're sure you only remove resolutions with the customXXkhz.txt files?

I went thru all resolution with Quickres. 640x240 and 640x288 works fine and display in 15khz. all other resolutions are linedoubled.

I've found a cheap Radeon 9600 on ebay so I went ahead and bought it. That should fix it

[random92]

no, sir, they were not. they displayed at 15kHZ progressive. if anyone kows how to get a computer to give this kind of a signal to regular tv through s-video/component please share. it doesn't look like you can, however,....

You're right, however I don't know enough about that TV encoder chips.
All I can tell is that they resample the image from the framebuffer

Ah, no problem. Thanks for the response anyway, Sailorsat.

[JayL6]

I did some more test. I uninstalled soft15k and re-installed with only the 15k mode enabled. The desktop now appear in interlaced 640x480 and the D9800 OSD report a 15.7khz frequency.

Next I started mame with pacman. The monitor still shows a 31Khz resolution with pacman so it seems that my videocard is definitely doubling the lines.

Does that happen on "more" resolutions or just one or two?
Test with quickres pls.

Right now I'm pretty clueless, as I've heard of that problem (NVidia only) several times now, but can't reproduce it on any of my cards

*EDIT*
You're sure you only remove resolutions with the customXXkhz.txt files?

I went thru all resolution with Quickres. 640x240 and 640x288 works fine and display in 15khz. all other resolutions are linedoubled.

I've found a cheap Radeon 9600 on ebay so I went ahead and bought it. That should fix it

Hi Shiloh,

I think that you have made the right choice in getting a different video card.  I had exactly the same problem as you trying to get soft-15KHz working with my 6800gt, it just wouldn't display the low resolutions at 15k.

Think that I tried everything, then gave up.  I then replaced my video card with a 7600gt and Soft-15KHz works flawlessly with it.

I haven't tried an ArcadeVGA video card, but the results that I get from soft-15KHz make the games on my arcade monitor look identical to how I remember them looking in a real arcade.

[lettuce]

Ahn-huh, notice the refresh. It's 101hz. It still gives natural scanlines - check my sig to learn why - but the refresh is doubled, or close to. However, there could be a cap to that on your monitor, meaning some games will need a range of up to 125hz to be able to display.

Be careful of this however!!. My tri-sync monitor like 95% of other tri-sync monitors are not that great when displaying 15khz modes, you'll probably notice the right hand side of the screen will be compressed/squished. I sorted this problem out by using Mames built in resolution, which gave a perfect 15khz type display (natural scanlines) but was displaying in 31khz mode, as it was doubling the refresh rate, and had no compression on the right hand side of the screen what so ever, so was really pleased!!! But!.....my monitor specs are only up to 90hz on the horizontal refresh, and have been informed that running over this (in your case 101hz to 125hz) will in time cause your monitor to fail, so be very careful. As i didnt want my monitor to fail (not sure if it ever would, but to be on the safe side) i had to go back to the 15khz display modes for 15khz games and put up with the compression on the right hand side 

[random92]

Infact they do, as long as the signal is 15khz, and is fed via RGB.

Hmmm, should something like this work for normal TVs that accept Y-Pb-Pr only? An adapter like this can transcode the PC signal to the YPbPr mode. If the PC signal is 15kHz, no problem?

[lettuce]

Does the latest version of soft15KHz work with the latest Nvidia drivers??