Top 10 Mame mistakes that keep getting copied from one machine to another.

[paigeoliver]

Ok, if you really need to check out Gauntlet you can review the manual and wiring schematics to verify the orientation of the side sticks. You have to go through way too many pages for me to try to post it here, but the info is in there.

So far the only games with angled sticks on side players that have ever been found are Mercs, and a 1970s era snake game that I can't remember the name of. Both of which are almost unplayable from the side positions.

[MAME TIME]

Perfect thread for stirring up the pot, but hey I'm all in favour of people building whatever they want, even if it has a billion buttons and lights and want not. But this is what its all about isn't it, i think people need to check their ego at the login screen. I myself built and finished 2 Mame cabs to the best of my abilities and guess what just because someone has 2000+ posts doesn't mean they did any of the physical handy work or finished anything for that matter. I myself couldn't build a cab from scratch if my life depended on it, i had to using a existing one, but you know what, if someone takes the time to cut and build from nothing into something i admire them cause i know i couldn't, even if the cab looks poo. So if someone wants to start a thread with certain "guildlines" take it for whatever its worth,

[paigeoliver]

Hee, hee. I have done a few machines (4 scratchbuilt, 20+ conversions and have owned/repaired 50+ original machines). 

[FrizzleFried]

Rule #12...

Under NO circumstances are you to make create a "cabinet" as pictured below and attempt to sell it on ebay with a starting bid of $1,500 claiming others sell for over $3,000...

I worship the intrinsic understanding you have of amusement at the expense of someone who is not here. 

As I worship the intimate misconception you have of light hearted humor at the expense of those who surround you.    

HEY! 

Awe...have a beer!   

[RayB]

So far the only games with angled sticks on side players that have ever been found are Mercs, and a 1970s era snake game that I can't remember the name of. Both of which are almost unplayable from the side positions.

Uh Paige... nice to have you back and all, but give credit where credit is due... I posted some time last year that Pit Fighter had angled sticks. (And no coincidence, it's a HORRIBLE game from Atari's "all our smart staff has left the building!" era.    )



Actually, on closer look, that's probably a conversion kit... so the guy installing it just didn't know what he was doing.

[paigeoliver]

That may be a conversion, but I just checked a dedicated and they were that way too.

So, now we are up to Mercs, Pit Fighter (neither one actually 4 player), and a 1970s Snake game (which I can't seem to track down now).

[FrizzleFried]

That sure looks like the original arcade cabinet to me...that is off the ebay listing I see at KLOV I assume?  If so,  that IS the original cabinet as it matches the flyer.

[DrewKaree]

I can't believe that no one mentioned Golden Rule #11

That would be Golden Rule #12.  I've already established that #11 is "No rubber floor mats for CPO's"

Do we just assume that, simply because two members have higher post counts and that they both disagree with the same crappy "thought so" attitude that they are meeting behind closed doors, wearing funny hats with secret handshakes and planning to gang up on innocent newbs ? Or, does the dufus simply deserve a response ?

Um....Cheffo....shuuuuuuut uuuuuuuup!  Ixnay on the artypay!

I have to say that Drew was a little Right Said Fred in this case

Dude, c'mon, seriously.  I AM too sexy for my shirt.  Even you can see that.

It is funny that Drew can come off so hard without showing any of his own cabinet building ingenuity actually in practice.    

What I've done thus far IS there, and not only have I shown all my "ingenuity" (what little there is), I've even pointed out each and every flaw and problem in my personal project.  Kinda hard to offend someone who lays out the offenses for you beforehand and doesn't take himself too seriously.

And   Even if you didn't say you "respected" me, I'm still able to take a right fat load of criticism.  Even a blind person should be able to see that.  The only person you need to worry about in POSSIBLY offending me in some small way or fashion is Saint, and the way he wants people to behave.  I'd like to believe he gives my "tormentors" some more rope based on my own stance, but still, if I can get along with MrC (and ask him, I believe he'd agree), I'm darn near bulletproof

For F*&^% Sake!!!

Children....  It's like Handbags at dawn in here!!!

You just shoosh you big meanie! I'ma cry or summink



For those who've missed it, or think I was pissing on dude's cabinet, you may wish to actually CHECK OUT the project I'm sporadically working on.  I dunno about ANY of youse guys, but I'm more than positive that a 63" CP is something Paige would think is well beyond a mistake and something only a person who needs to have a group intervention would do (and perhaps he'd be right).  Um....FWIW, I believe I, the master debater, am the current and reigning king for sheer CP size, as the only thing I can dredge up that comes close to those proportions is Bones' battle carrier. 

You'll also have to note that I took this thread as an oppoortunity to point out that rubber floor mats (something NONE of you could have REALISTICALLY considered for a CPO) are something "we" might want to addd to "the list".  For those who hear a giant whooshing sound continually going over their head, PAIGE is the one "guilty" of doing that, and it was pointed out because others before me have pointed out the irony in someone stating his opinions on cab faux pas while considering such an odd (and probably never in anyone else's lifetime even DREAMED OF) choice for a CPO.

Yeah, I prolly could have been all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, but people justifiying their choices have already shown a need for direct and to-the-point dialogue, since they've already convinced themselves that their view on it is gospel.  Notice I've not left myself out of that equation.

In the end, the ranter gave us his sage bit of advice that he seemed determined to ignore himself.  Continuing to flog that dead horse isn't gonna bring it back to life, nor will it change my stance on the point I addressed, but since deciding to, I'm certain that it's apparent that I can move past the issue if the discussion is done on it.  Continuing to discuss it is tantamount to asking me to defend my position.  I'm game!

[danny_galaga]

Um....Cheffo....shuuuuuuut uuuuuuuup!  Ixnay on the artypay!

is it just me, or does 'shuuuuuuut uuuuuuuup' look like the top has been cut off?

[saint]

We just haven't found the right dose . . .

I'm darn near bulletproof

[ChadTower]

I seem to remember Gauntlet having rotated sticks... not angled, as angled would probably be the term to use if the sticks weren't 90 degrees vertical... but I do seem to remember that the side sticks on Gauntlet are rotated, possibly a full 90 degrees, but up for the side sticks isn't the same physical direction as up on the middle sticks in my memory.

If they were rotated a full 90 degrees, so that the up directions of the side sticks are actually pointing directly at each other, that would explain why the bolts don't appear to be rotated.

[FrizzleFried]

I seem to remember Gauntlet having rotated sticks... not angled, as angled would probably be the term to use if the sticks weren't 90 degrees vertical... but I do seem to remember that the side sticks on Gauntlet are rotated, possibly a full 90 degrees, but up for the side sticks isn't the same physical direction as up on the middle sticks in my memory.

If they were rotated a full 90 degrees, so that the up directions of the side sticks are actually pointing directly at each other, that would explain why the bolts don't appear to be rotated.

I didn't play Gauntlet enough to know this for sure but that would be HELLA confusing if that was the case...

[ChadTower]

Not nearly as confusing for me as if I had to stand sideways and look at the monitor out of the corner of my eye, reaching all the way across my body to get at the buttons.

[Tiger-Heli]

So, now we are up to Mercs, Pit Fighter (neither one actually 4 player), and a 1970s Snake game (which I can't seem to track down now).

You have five more with what I posted in this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64011.0

I meant to do an experiment with turning my desktop CP at a 45-degree angle, sitting at the same angle and seeing how the game played.

However, I remember a previous post on this supplying this test as a good example.  Sit at a 45-degree angle to the computer screen, turn your mouse so it is facing away from you and try to trace a vertical and then a horizontal line.  Repeat with the mouse oriented perpendicular to the computer screen.  The second method is easier.

[scotthh]

The joysticks on 2 On 2 Open Ice Challenge look angled to me.

http://www.mameworld.net/maws/img/cpanel/openice.png

[(+_+)]

Rule #13.

Once your CP holes are drilled and the plexi holes too, do not start to reconsider whether or not to angle your joysticks.

You now have me sweating. I'm even faux playing at my desk at work imagining what it feels like to play Gauntlet that way. My previous cab had the outer players pointing forward, but the buttons were angled. Truth be told I wanted the joysticks angled too, but my friend screwed them in straight. Intuitive or not, both my kids thought it felt weird playing at an angle with the joystick facing straight.

Too late for me. I'm angling.

[Dmod]

Too late for me. I'm angling.

Duck now... you're gonna feel the wrath for sure.   

[Numbski]

I'm not going to re-post my cp picture here again, but keep in mind that I almost exlusively play fighting games, so orientation hand-to-joystick almost has to take precedence over orientation joystick-to-screen (anyone following me?)

I've taken the top off of mine.  I can't undo the dimension of my CP box.  The wife would kill me.  Bad enough that I have to buy new plexi.  Eep.

So here's what I have: 4 start buttons, Happ Ulimates, labelled as such.
32 white sanwa OSBN pushbuttons, 8 per player
4 Sanwa JLF Joysticks

The panel is 48" wide, 15" deep.  The top edges are scalloped to remove the temptation of placing buttons outside of the box.  How would you recommend I lay this out?  I'd prefer not to drop down to 4 buttons on players 3 and 4 as it kills off the ability to do 4 player Mugen or 4 player Dead or Alive 2, etc.  If I don't angle, I don't know how else to do it that affords any mount of reasonable elbow room.

[Tiger-Heli]

Without any real empirical testing, I am guessing this may be a matter of how you use the machine.

i.e. if you have a long rectangular CP and all four players are facing perpendicular to the screen you want non-angled joysticks.

If the outside corners are cut but all players stand facing perpendicular to the screen with the outside players a bit closer to the screen, you also want non-angled.

If the outside corners are cut and the outside players are facing at a 45-degree angle you probably want angled sticks.

(But I'll duck now until I can do some real testing!)

[btp2k2]

My intention with "accusing" him of being somebody else was intended to be tongue-in-cheek and designed to make a point. As I seem to have failed to make that point clear -- he was an obnoxious @$$ the same way that tranq was.

You know what, it is my fault I took things the way I did. I switched to the night shift and I am having a tough time adjusting to sleeping during the days....so I have been a little punchy lately.

I just have two points I would like to make, and then I am done.....Please, before you rip into me for "ranting" just read them and think about them as I feel they are important.

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

Secondly, why is it alright for someone to make a remark "Tongue in cheek", while I get raked across the coals for doing it? The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

I am very sorry for any strife I caused earlier. I have learned my lesson that posting while very tired is almost as dangerous as posting drunk. That said, I would very much like to hear about CheffoJeffo's DC cabinet and what method he used to interface the controls. Any insight would be much appreciated.

[Texasmame]

Ok, I was thinking and I decided that a good topic for discussion might be the top 10 Mame mistakes that keep getting copied from one machine to another. And of course for almost every one of these there will be a few exceptions where they are not mistakes, but not many.

. . .

#4. Cabinets with internal frames. Arcade cabinets do not need internal frames made out of 2x4s. It is just added weight with no functionality.. . .

I am a card carrying member of Overbuilders Anonymous. 

[HaRuMaN]

...

[Tiger-Heli]

>You know what, it is my fault I took things the way I did. I switched to the night shift and I am having a tough >time adjusting to sleeping during the days....so I have been a little punchy lately.

Fair enough.

>First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely >unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. >Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is >surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

Without this trying to come off as self-serving, it is often a fairly good indicator on most forums.  True, I post a LOT on here and very little on MameWorld or MAME General/Serious, so I am more familiar with MAME than some people with tons of post over there despite fairly low post count, and also true, you can have thousands of posts in P&R or EE on here and know virtually nothing about arcade cabinets, or you can read Saint's book and lurk on the forum for about six months and know more than any of us with only a half-dozen posts, but these would be the exception rather than the rule.

Secondly, why is it alright for someone to make a remark "Tongue in cheek", while I get raked across the coals for doing it? The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

I've gotten in trouble over this on other forums I participate in.  You have to remember that people can't hear your tone of voice or judge your emotions, so they just have to go from the written words.  Take your last comment above:

The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

That ends with a question mark.  Are you asking us whether it was not tongue-in-cheek?  Are you asking yourself whether it was tongue-in-cheek?  Are you making a statement that is was not tongue-in-cheek?  Or are you making a rhetorical question implying that it was in-fact tongue-in-cheek?  Based on context, I am assuming it is the latter, but it could easily be misconstrued.

As far as why you got raked over the coals and others don't - I looked back at the original post:

Thought so . . .

Like DK said, that sounds authoritative and confrontational.  You would get a similar response from (and it was taken the same way as:

Thought so . . .   

or

Thought so . . . 

or somewhat

Thought so . . . 

as opposed to

Thought so . . . 

Thought so . . . 

Thought so . . .   

Thought so . . .   

Which most others use and which wouldn't have gotten the board mad at you.

Yes, it really is that simple!!! 

[Santoro]

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

Well... I knew shite about anything when I had 12 posts here 3-4 years ago.  I know my way around a bit now. Not like some others, but this would have been a good gauge for me.  Also, how many expert MAME builders do you think are out there that aren't members here?  Probably very few. 

I think your point is valid on many boards that have content that is duplicated on other boards.  It is, for example, easy to be an expert in Sci-Fi without ever having visited Scifi.com.  It is not so easy to be an expert MAME builder without having spent some time here. 

[KenToad]

As a fairly low-post resident cab/mame expert ...  ... no, but seriously, I just wanted to point out that I didn't really see post counts as being an issue.  I thought Drew kind of laid into you, BTP ..., and Cheffo fired back at your ranty response, while kind of ignoring Drew's initial rant, maybe because he knows that Drew is bulletproof ... and you were too new to the board to take it with a shrug, like most of us do.   

[DrewKaree]

Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

I think Chad's in his 30's

[(+_+)]

Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

I think Chad's in his 30's

Yes, but he may still act like he's 15 and suffer from adult acne. 
Just so it won't be misconstrued.

 

[ChadTower]

I think Chad's in his 30's

Yep.  And I clearly only know a little about a little, no matter what I think I know.

I don't have adult acne but I do still want to nail Debbie Gibson.

[Tiger-Heli]

Just so it won't be misconstrued.

I resemble that remark!  

Sorry for the continued drivel and drek!

[Santoro]

As a fairly low-post resident cab/mame expert ...  ...

I consider that to be high post count FWIW.  And you are way more knowledgable than I..  But you've been around a while, right?  That was my main point.

[btp2k2]

I think Chad's in his 30's

Yep.  And I clearly only know a little about a little, no matter what I think I know.

I don't have adult acne but I do still want to nail Debbie Gibson.

Who doesn't?

She was hot back then, hotter now!

[CheffoJeffo]

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

I don't think it is *stupid*, but definitely agree that post counts can be misleading. There are a number of folks with low post counts who have been around for a long time.

Secondly, why is it alright for someone to make a remark "Tongue in cheek", while I get raked across the coals for doing it? The now infamous "Thought So?" wasn't tongue in cheek?

I'm not sure that anybody said that my posting was alright (besides, nobody takes me seriously anyway). People came out and defended you. I objected to some of them because I thought I was being misrepresented -- I'm happy to take heat for stuff that I post, but I want the heat to be for what I post.

Cheers

Oh, I interfaced with the Dreamcast via controller hack ... see, told you I don't agree with all of Paige's points 

Having said that, I am thinking of a Dreamcast driving cab using the Super interface from excellentcom:

http://www.excellentcom.net/super1.asp

[Dmod]

  I thought I might learn something from this thread but fear it's gotten so far off track as to be rendered completely useless. 
I propose that Paige rename it:

Top 10 Flame mistakes that keep getting copied from one thread to another.

and that you guys finish kissing and make up.   

(Oh..., why can't we be friends?... why can't we be friends... why can't we be frends... why can't we - be - friends?  Dum, Dum. Dum...)   

[btp2k2]

Oh, I interfaced with the Dreamcast via controller hack ... see, told you I don't agree with all of Paige's points 

Having said that, I am thinking of a Dreamcast driving cab using the Super interface from excellentcom:

http://www.excellentcom.net/super1.asp

Interesting....So it looks like you need a Jamma cab for that?

I am still rather unfamiliar with the whole Jamma idea....So, from what I can gather in some of the pics on the excellentcom site, there is part that plugs into a slot on another board....that plugs into a jamma board, and that board has the video connections, control connections, etc?

[ArcadeMaze]

X

[btp2k2]

First of all....I think the whole "Respect your elders" based on post count is ridiculous. Not only is it completely unfair to judge someone based on the amount of times they have posted in this forum, it is just plain stupid. Based on that logic, some zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid would rule the world cause all he does all day is surf the net (No offense intended if you are a zitty faced 15 year old punk ass kid).

  Also, how many expert MAME builders do you think are out there that aren't members here?  Probably very few. 

I have been building for almost 2 years before I made a post here

[Santoro]

I always get in trouble when I make a statement that is intended to be general.  I said few, not none, right?  Any how long were you reading before you registered?

Anyway I didn't mean it to mean that it was a hard and fast rule, but rather a good guideline.  Especially on the internet, you need some indication of someone's credibility.  It has worked well for me.  Others will disagree. That's OK.     

[btp2k2]

I Any how long were you reading before you registered?

More to the point....how long was I registered before posting

I registered and never got the email confirmation....I found it in my junk folder like 4 months later.

But, I think I read for about a year before I registered

[Crowquill]

I personally think this is a good reflection of how things go on these boards. btp2k2 made a harsh statement, reactions were probably harsher than they should have been, but everyone's friends in the end. I can definitely sympathize with working night shift. That throws your whole life into chaos.

I rarely pay attention to the post count. You can usually tell pretty quickly if someone is talking out of their ass or throwing out opinions with no fact to back it up.

According to my info I joined in nov of '04, but I first started building a panel in 2000. I finally posted pictures of my "coinslot illuminated pushbutton" from that first panel a couple months ago. I was going to post pics of it when I first joined but was intimidated that what I thought was novel had been done a million times before and I just hadn't seen it yet. Judging by reactions to Randy's product announcement it hadn't. I guess the moral of this long-winded story is that newbs can contribute too.

[Crowquill]

Oh, I'd also like to contribute pet peeve number...I think we're up to 13:  Excessive admin buttons

Each player does not need their own pause button. And once your cab is configured, how often do you really need to press TAB?

I understand why people have admin buttons, but just like everything else it can snowball out of control. I prefer to not have admin buttons and use button combinations. If strangers visit my house they can read the posted instruction card.