Author Topic: New product sneak peek photos... (Read 23489 times)

OSCAR · « **on:** April 08, 2003, 08:30:03 pm »

Discs of Tron.

I can't really call this spinner a true reproduction because I modified the design for wood control panels, however, mechanically it is nearly identical to the original design. Thanks to a member of the BYOAC (Vectoraster) for loaning me his DOT spinner, I was able to completely reverse-engineer the original design. I even kept the original mounting hole locations the same in the unlikely event someone would want to install this into a Tron control panel. The bracket is professionally fabricated and plated from 12ga steel, which is about twice the thickness of the orginal. I'll list a few specs now, but full documentation will be ready when the spinner is released:

- Leaf switches for up/down contacts
- Blue tempered spring steel for the tension springs
- 4 inch, 72 tooth encoder wheel
- All components (less shaft and sleeve) are bright zinc plated
- Original bearing and sleeve design.

ETA: 2-3 weeks
Price: TBD

As usual there are still a couple of snafu's I have to address with some of the suppliers, and once those are taken care of I will have a better idea of the final sell price. The good news is that I'm past the point of no return, so this project is definitely a go.

Below are a few pre-production photos.

A comparison photo of the OSCAR DOT, Pro, and an original Tempest spinner.

ryamkajr · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2003, 08:32:07 pm »

OK, that settles it. I will be naming my first daughter "Oscar".

- Ray

Homebrew · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2003, 08:37:16 pm »

Forgive me for the stupid question, but i'm not spinner savy. Where does this model fit in your lineup as far as performance. i.e. will this be between the pro and the model 3, will it be the new top peformer, etc.

-Kevin

Thenasty · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2003, 08:55:58 pm »

WOW thats look great Oscar. I guess when its release, its time to upgrade my spinner and get an Opti-Pac, Unless it works with the Serial/PS2 port.

Brax · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2003, 09:06:06 pm »

Holy gawd!

Ok, I'm thinkin thats the perfect all around spinner. I was going to go with the Pro but I think this is my new first choice!

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!!!

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2003, 09:07:32 pm »

WOW. Just...WOW.

Similar to Homebrew's question I guess: Is there any advantage that the regular Pro would have over this? Is the spin and whatnot the same?

Frostillicus · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2003, 09:16:37 pm »

Oscar, that looks great!

Can it be used as a regular spinner without noticing the DOT-ness of it? The features are cool, but it would be nice to have one that does it all.

OSCAR · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2003, 10:03:52 pm »

Thanks for all the great comments!

To answer the biggest question, I have to say that the DOT spinner is the most functional spinner ever made. I have done my best to duplicate that exactly.

The feel of the DOT is unlike most spinners in that it actually has a 1/2" bearing and rotating sleeve. This gives the spinner a very heavy, yet smooth feel. In fact the original DOT is almost too heavy, especially if it were to be used with multiple games. Obviously this was not a concern with the original spinner, but to be best suited for use in MAME and all the spinner games that are available I opted to lighten up the rotating mass just a little. I can't have BYOAC'ers suing me for causing Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

Even still, this monster weighs just shy of 2 lbs. as pictured above.

If you give this spinner a good twist, will it spin for a very long time? No. Neither did the original. Again this goes back to the construction of the original spinner design, which I duplicated for the most authentic feeling spinner available.

The tension springs are stiff enough to not allow for up/down motion unless you intend to make those motions. My initial testing has shown that this spinner performs just as well, if not better due to the larger encoder wheel and tooth count, as the Pro spinner in "standard" spinner games such as Tempest.

This spinner also comes with my optic board which is compatible with the popular encoders such as the Opti-PAC and ME4. It also works with the optional USB mouse interface I have available on my website. For DOS compatibility you will need an encoder such as the Opti-PAC or ME4, or alternately connect it to a serial-ps/2 mouse hack such as BobA's or Minwah's popular examples.

And finally, Ray, I hope your daughter turns out much better looking than me.

PoDunkMoFo · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2003, 11:09:37 pm »

Hey oscar looks awesome!!

I was wondering if you are going to offer a more DOT type knob. If I remember correctly it was kind of radiused (not sure if that's a word) around the circumference. I think the design was to make it easier on the hand when pushing and especially pulling. Just a thought. I applaud you for all your efforts and what it means to this community.

dhansen · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2003, 11:15:25 pm »

Nice Oscar!! Now, let's start producing those Tempest replica knobs!!!!

BTW, LOVE my new Mame engraved aluminum knob!

Doug

Distortion · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2003, 11:36:50 pm »

Man, don't I wish I wasn't poor. I still haven't painted my cabinet...don't have any plexi...I don't even have all four nuts on one of my joysticks! Could someone explain to me the control setup of DOT, cuz i never totally figured it out myself. This sounds like its going to be a top-notch product, and I REALLY can't wait to see how it turns out. As soon as I get money, there's gonna be an Oscar knob on my cabinet!

OSCAR · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2003, 11:38:38 pm »

Quote from: PoDunkMoFo on April 08, 2003, 11:09:37 pm

Hey oscar looks awesome!!

I was wondering if you are going to offer a more DOT type knob. If I remember correctly it was kind of radiused (not sure if that's a word) around the circumference. I think the design was to make it easier on the hand when pushing and especially pulling. Just a thought. I applaud you for all your efforts and what it means to this community.

You mean this one?

Yes, I do have shop drawings for the DOT knob. The first time I sent it out for pricing it came back much higher than I expected so I shelved it. I'm still investigating other avenues, but so far I don't have anything concrete on it yet.

Doug - I'm glad you like the MAME engraved knob! A Tempest knob? Nah, not just yet. I still have a few more things up my sleeve before I go there.

hyiu · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2003, 02:19:55 am »

dammm..... DOT spinner !!!!!!!

ok.... that is it.... I now need to modify my panel to include a spinner.....

YEAH !!!!!!!!!

this is amazing.... just too amazing......

skirge66 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2003, 02:49:42 am »

and to think I just ordered my pro....only because it was the best...and now this...it shipped just yesterday.

hey oscar, this thang is bootiful, was wondering if you might do me a favor and maybe perhaps post the mounting specs since i am getting ready to start choppin the wood for my cp, I want to make sure my design as is will have enough room for the dot footprint when I decide to upgrade... thanks

and as usual your work is just amazing...wish I had a talent like you.

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2003, 04:42:49 am »

WOW!!

Look great! I've been wondering what to get for my next spinner, and am glad I didn't deside before now.

BTW, that encoder wheel doesn't happen to have 72 spokes like the 720 controller, does it? Do you know how close in size it is to the original 720 controller (IIRC, 4 3/8" but I can't find my notes). Also, if you know, were the encoder wheels for DOT and 720 the same size or number spokes?

kspiff · « **Reply #15 on:** April 09, 2003, 05:24:13 am »

Oh, joy.. I'm always the one to buy this kind of stuff before an awesome revision like this comes out.. looks sweeet..

RetroBorg · « **Reply #16 on:** April 09, 2003, 06:51:03 am »

There's no confusion now on which spinner to buy, I will be snapping up one of these for sure. Sure like the look of that DOT knob as well.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2003, 07:16:15 am »

Hi OSCAR,

The pics look awesome and you saved me from writing to see if it worked with the engraved knob.

It looks fantastic. Count me in

(when I get around to buying stuff

)

Brax · « **Reply #18 on:** April 09, 2003, 08:13:38 am »

How soon before we can order? Price point?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #19 on:** April 09, 2003, 08:17:48 am »

Quote from: Brax on April 09, 2003, 08:13:38 am

How soon before we can order? Price point?

See initial post - 2-3 weeks, TBD.

KevSteele · « **Reply #20 on:** April 09, 2003, 09:42:12 am »

/begin Homer Simpson
"Oooohh, shiny..."
/end Homer Simpson

Very cool looking! I'm assuming the up/down buttons are mouse L/R buttons?

It certainly looks like it was worth all the pain and endless delays you suffered through to get it built!

pocketz · « **Reply #21 on:** April 09, 2003, 10:12:18 am »

Quote from: Frostillicus on April 08, 2003, 09:16:37 pm

Oscar, that looks great!

Can it be used as a regular spinner without noticing the DOT-ness of it?

my now obsolete

genuine DOT spinner works great for all the spinner games except 720 degrees. in 720 you need to spin fast and hard. the dot spinner has a little too much heft for that. when i give it a good spin it will rotate freely about 3 times so it does have a silky smooth bearing action. also, the spinner stays solid when playing other games and you dont notice the up-down feature of the spinner.

if you are gonna put a spinner in your cab one of these new dot spinners from oscar is the right choice. they are new and you can get replacement parts for them when something wears out.

i just bought 2 more dot spinners off ebay as backup for my dot mame cab, for an average price of $100 each, that included the whole control panel with a blue trigger joystick.

-pocketz

jdjuggler · « **Reply #22 on:** April 09, 2003, 01:16:43 pm »

Will this have a 1/4" shaft?
I have large hands, so I'd like to get the 2" aluminum knob (unfortunately from those other guys).
It's just too bad that I can't get a 2" aluminum knob with the engraved MAME logo from OSCAR!
Boo Hoo....

dag2000 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2003, 01:41:07 pm »

Oscar makes exactly the item you describe. Is there someone else copying his?

OSCAR · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2003, 01:56:42 pm »

Quote from: jdjuggler on April 09, 2003, 01:16:43 pm

Will this have a 1/4" shaft?
I have large hands, so I'd like to get the 2" aluminum knob (unfortunately from those other guys).
It's just too bad that I can't get a 2" aluminum knob with the engraved MAME logo from OSCAR!
Boo Hoo....

I mentioned in a previous post that I am still looking at other options for knobs, however I doubt I will offer a machined 2

MinerAl · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2003, 02:50:02 pm »

Finally! Procrastination pays off for me!

I just hope this

SirPoonga · « **Reply #26 on:** April 09, 2003, 04:30:29 pm »

Ok, now I see why you haven't gotten around to the q*bert knocker circuit!

What;s the footprint of this thing since it is bigger than the pro? If I get this it's definately going on my second CP and I am taking the spinner off my 1st CP.

Ok, people, Look at my cabinet, that spinner on the cp, it might be for sale... Forgot which model it was, model 1 or 2...

72 tooth huh? Hmm, sounds like a perfect candidate for a 720 hack...BTW, could you make a single disc 720? But the calibration holes on the same disc, just furter down? I'd be satisfied with just a small wheel witha control knob on it to play 720, it's better than nothing or a spinner knob!

SirPoonga · « **Reply #27 on:** April 09, 2003, 04:35:30 pm »

Quote from: kevsteele on April 09, 2003, 09:42:12 am

/begin Homer Simpson
"Oooohh, shiny..."
/end Homer Simpson

Very cool looking! I'm assuming the up/down buttons are mouse L/R buttons?

They are just leaf switches, hook them up to what ever interface you want.

Zinfari · « **Reply #28 on:** April 09, 2003, 05:03:41 pm »

Nice Oscar! I'm with SirPoonga, what are the dimensions. Just trying to get a feel for the amount of space needed on the CP.

Thanks,
-Zinfari

OSCAR · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2003, 06:56:30 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on April 09, 2003, 04:35:30 pm

They are just leaf switches, hook them up to what ever interface you want.

Thanks for picking up that question Sir P, I completely missed it.

I'll post some mounting dimensions shortly. Thanks again for all the comments, guys!!

SirPoonga · « **Reply #30 on:** April 09, 2003, 07:03:05 pm »

I might be hacking that spinner to play 720. Just drill two calibration holes, setup some IR stuff, and find a good spinner knob so I can tell what direction the spinner is in:)

Lilwolf · « **Reply #31 on:** April 09, 2003, 07:16:57 pm »

SirP and Oscar...

For the 720 solution. how about adding a car window crank handle on it? That might!

then getting the true north will be the only problem.

shmokes · « **Reply #32 on:** April 09, 2003, 07:33:34 pm »

I RULE!!! I have made EVERY purchase for my cab except my Ultimarc purchase for an Optipac, Ipac and E-stick and my spinner purchase. I was wavering between Oscar and Slickstick. Oh my god!!! There is only one game in town anymore. I can only imagine how I would feel reading this thread had I just placed a spinner order within the last couple of weeks month. Phew!!!

p.s. Obviously it is actually Oscar who rules.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #33 on:** April 09, 2003, 07:51:11 pm »

Quote from: Lilwolf on April 09, 2003, 07:16:57 pm

SirP and Oscar...

For the 720 solution. how about adding a car window crank handle on it? That might!

then getting the true north will be the only problem.

YEah, but I don't want something that big, but that's the right idea.

Getting north is easy. Just mount the calibration IRs on one of the sides of the spinner, then always have that side north.

planetjay · « **Reply #34 on:** April 09, 2003, 08:16:41 pm »

Quote from: jdjuggler on April 09, 2003, 01:16:43 pm

Will this have a 1/4" shaft?
I have large hands, so I'd like to get the 2" aluminum knob (unfortunately from those other guys).
It's just too bad that I can't get a 2" aluminum knob with the engraved MAME logo from OSCAR!
Boo Hoo....

What other guys?

And OSCAR rocks! But we knew that.

Vectoraster · « **Reply #35 on:** April 09, 2003, 08:31:14 pm »

OH MY! You really did it!

OSCAR · « **Reply #36 on:** April 09, 2003, 09:26:17 pm »

Quote from: Vectoraster on April 09, 2003, 08:31:14 pm

OH MY! You really did it!

Thanks to you, bud! It would have been much more difficult without your generous offer to let me keep your DOT spinner for so long.

Sorry I don't have much to offer in the way of 720 hacks. I'm not familiar enough with the control to even speculate on how feasible it would be. Doubtless one of you guys will find a way, though!

Here's a cartoony sketch with some dimensions. The shaft is long enough to accommodate a 3/4" control panel with 1/8" plexi by using the spacer bars. Because the lower end of the shaft is special for the push/pull action, the shaft length is not adjustable. For thinner control panels, either additional shims will be required, or just cut the top of the shaft down to the required length. I opted to use removable spacer bars so the spinner would retain the original metal panel mounting dimensions. All this technical info will be included in the documentation. The mounting hole sizes are the same as the original at 0.22" for a 3/16" bolt.

Thanks again for all the positive feedback everyone!

p.s. - Hey PJ, I haven't forgotten about you. I'm only a few months late, that's all. I'll try to finish them up this weekend.

skirge66 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2003, 09:46:01 pm »

DANCING WITH GLEE!!

the footprint will fit into my design without changing it... yay!!!

I didn't notice that it was a pushbutton as well...so i'm not the brightest crayon in the box, but hey, at least I'm completely on the right page now

what are the odds of this working well as the shooting interface for frontline?

jdjuggler · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2003, 10:19:08 pm »

Quote from: planetjay on April 09, 2003, 08:16:41 pm

Quote from: jdjuggler on April 09, 2003, 01:16:43 pm
Will this have a 1/4" shaft?
I have large hands, so I'd like to get the 2" aluminum knob (unfortunately from those other guys).
It's just too bad that I can't get a 2" aluminum knob with the engraved MAME logo from OSCAR!
Boo Hoo....

What other guys?

And OSCAR rocks! But we knew that.

I was referring to the 2" Tornado Spinner Alum. knob... I tried to be subtle, in this OSCAR love fest.... But, you made me say it.
I was just saying that I think I like a larger knob (eh...) on the spinner I mean. It would be nice to be able to get that 2" spinner with the mame logo too.
I do like OSCAR'S new spinner and I'll most likely be buying it. See, the love is flowing again!!
I was thinking that the 2" alum. knob would be better than the 1.5" alum. knob... IMHO - authentic or not.
JD

SirPoonga · « **Reply #39 on:** April 10, 2003, 12:52:51 am »

Quote from: OSCAR on April 09, 2003, 09:26:17 pm

Sorry I don't have much to offer in the way of 720 hacks. I'm not familiar enough with the control to even speculate on how feasible it would be. Doubtless one of you guys will find a way, though!

Yep, already done. Read the 720 thread sometime.
720 used a 72 encoder disc. And it uses a 2 slot calibration. I think I could hack this spinner just by making two of the grooves deeper and adding a second set of IRs. It'd take both axis of a mouse. urebel has the code integrated into analog+ mame to support that.. Just need a good knob that works well since I doubt it would be easy to make a joystick work.

Frostillicus · « **Reply #40 on:** April 10, 2003, 12:56:09 am »

I would get into a 2" aluminum machined knob as well - I currently have a 2" old volume knob and it has great feel to it. having the mame logo engraved would be nice too. I can't wait for pre-orders

EDIT : I meant to say I used it with an older model 2 spinner and it felt great

I'm am spinner-less right now, though.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #41 on:** April 10, 2003, 12:59:46 am »

Do you have a picture of it attached to a board, the top side with the knob?

OSCAR · « **Reply #42 on:** April 10, 2003, 07:11:09 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on April 10, 2003, 12:52:51 am

Yep, already done. Read the 720 thread sometime.
720 used a 72 encoder disc. And it uses a 2 slot calibration. I think I could hack this spinner just by making two of the grooves deeper and adding a second set of IRs. It'd take both axis of a mouse. urebel has the code integrated into analog+ mame to support that.. Just need a good knob that works well since I doubt it would be easy to make a joystick work.

Yes, I am aware of all of this. What I was referring to was I don't know how easy it would be to hack a DOT spinner for 720, nor do I know how realistic the play would be with a hacked DOT spinner because I'm not familiar with how the original 720 controller reacted as it used roller chain and a couple sprockets if I'm not mistaken. I imagine a DOT spinner could be hacked into a psuedo-720 controller, but would it be akin to playing Ikari Warriors with a DOT spinner and standard joystick? All the functionality is there, but how realistic would the play be? That I can't answer.

I'll upload a top view photo of it installed later this evening hopefully. From the top, though, it looks like any other spinner installed. All you see is a shaft poking up through a hole with a knob on top.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #43 on:** April 10, 2003, 07:20:06 am »

Quote from: OSCAR on April 10, 2003, 07:11:09 am

nor do I know how realistic the play would be with a hacked DOT spinner because I'm not familiar with how the original 720 controller reacted as it used roller chain and a couple sprockets if I'm not mistaken.

If I remember the conversation the chain was for friction, that way if the joystick was left facing north it stayed there, instead of gravity from the slanted cp pulling it towards south.

Yeah, I know what you mean by the ikari comment, but right now 720 is not playable at all. Need something where you know what direction the skater is in. Even the knob of yours with the dimple in it is better than absolutely nothing right now

Anyway, I do have an idea on how to make a hack that is 90% realistic made from off the shelf parts, but I need detailed photos of the original stick. Well, off the shelf once I get a 72 tooth spinner

Magnet_Eye · « **Reply #44 on:** April 10, 2003, 07:34:30 am »

I think Poonga is stoned.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #45 on:** April 10, 2003, 07:41:49 am »

Quote from: Magnet_Eye on April 10, 2003, 07:34:30 am

I think Poonga is stoned.

Hehe, actually, the idea I have is very simple, I just need to get my hands on some parts

jerryjanis · « **Reply #46 on:** April 10, 2003, 01:13:12 pm »

Oh, man! Oscar that totally rocks! I'm amazed - that spinner looks perfect! Finally, a mass-produced Zwackery controller!

http://www.zwackery.net/Zwackery.htm

"The game uses controls identical to Discs of Tron, which makes it difficult to get the hang of right away, but once you become accustomed to the controls, you'll have a blast."

Quote from: Distortion on April 08, 2003, 11:36:50 pm

Could someone explain to me the control setup of DOT, cuz i never totally figured it out myself.

Left hand: an 'up/down' spinner which controls where you will aim when you throw discs. spin left/right to aim left/right, and pull up on the spinner or push it down to aim up (towards the ceiling) or down (towards the floor). The up/down aspect of the spinner is not used in the game until the later levels when the platforms move up and down.

In the right hand, there is an 8-way joystick with two buttons. Move the joystick to run around on the platforms. The buttons are fire and shield.

Quote from: u_rebelscum on April 09, 2003, 04:42:49 am

were the encoder wheels for DOT and 720 the same size or number spokes?

I didn't take anything apart, so it was a little tough to measure and the measurements may not be very precise, but it looked to me like the encoder wheel for both games was about 4 1/4" in diameter. The DOT wheel has 128 holes and the main 720 spinner has 72 holes.

Quote from: SirPoonga on April 10, 2003, 12:52:51 am

Just need a good knob that works well since I doubt it would be easy to make a joystick work.

Yesterday I spent some time trying to get an analog joystick to control 720... It's proving to be a lot tougher than I had hoped (720 doesn't like it when I do a simple conversion of joystick angle->720 angle), but I'll keep at it... If I do eventually get that working, it's tough to tell which would be more playable - a hacked spinner or an analog joystick.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #47 on:** April 10, 2003, 01:38:33 pm »

Quote from: jerryjanis on April 10, 2003, 01:13:12 pm

Yesterday I spent some time trying to get an analog joystick to control 720... It's proving to be a lot tougher than I had hoped (720 doesn't like it when I do a simple conversion of joystick angle->720 angle), but I'll keep at it... If I do eventually get that working, it's tough to tell which would be more playable - a hacked spinner or an analog joystick.

Back to geometry, just using sin and cosine to determine the angle from an y and x coordinate, right? I know modern joystick code isn;t as simple as the old dos days. What's causing the trouble?

jerryjanis · « **Reply #48 on:** April 10, 2003, 02:01:57 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on April 10, 2003, 01:38:33 pm

Back to geometry, just using sin and cosine to determine the angle from an y and x coordinate, right?

My sentiments exactly...

When I was working on getting an 8-way joystick to work with 720, I came up with this drawing showing the values that I can use for each direction... Notice at about the 4 o'clock position, there was a little unsolved mystery (

)... For some reason, 720 didn't like it when I went from 4 o'clock to 3 o'clock - it would totally freak out... It works fine with the 8-way joystick because I simply skip that transition. However, the problem returns with the analog joystick. I can skip that value and it works fine, but it really sucks to have it work ALMOST perfectly and then totally skip that one direction. So now I'm working on something that might be way too complicated to actually work... I'm watching the change in the joystick angle and adding that to the mouse cursor value (so that it actually works mostly like a spinner instead of a joystick)... I need to go back to college, though, and take a class on circle mathematics... I'm sure that there are really smart ways to do what I'm trying to do.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #49 on:** April 10, 2003, 02:49:51 pm »

Quote from: jerryjanis on April 10, 2003, 02:01:57 pm

Where did those values come from? radians?

I can't believe I said radians, that's 2pie.

Well, I'm an applied math major, so I could help you apply some math.

jerryjanis · « **Reply #50 on:** April 10, 2003, 05:31:44 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on April 10, 2003, 02:49:51 pm

Where did those values come from? radians?

Those are the numeric values for the mouse that I use in the Mame code that result in the skateboarder pointing in the said direction. However, it doesn't work quite like that because it's a spinner and uses values that increase/decrease as you spin around and around (that was just a good hack to use for the 8way joystick which doesn't work with the analog joystick, darnitall).

skirge66 · « **Reply #51 on:** April 11, 2003, 03:10:44 am »

can this spinner be used for frontlines by chance?

Minwah · « **Reply #52 on:** April 11, 2003, 05:29:28 am »

I only just spotted this thread - once again WOW, great work Oscar

I'm kinda glad I haven't got round to mounting my Oscar Pro now...

Quick question: Will the leaf switches be interface-able to the USB mouse board out-of-the-box? Or will we just solder the switches to the mouse button switches? Either way, it would be good (for me) to not have to use the IPAC.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #53 on:** April 11, 2003, 08:54:56 am »

Sorry no. Frontline uses a special controller thats basically an 8way joysticks that is always pointing in a direction. It would need a mouse interface to be used with a 720 interface... And without a way to sync it, it wouldn't be all that useful. Currently there isn't any good solutions. A SNK 12 way might work at some point, but you would have to modify the driver to take "L" and "R" buttons instead of up, down, left, right.

Quote from: skirge66 on April 11, 2003, 03:10:44 am

can this spinner be used for frontlines by chance?

OSCAR · « **Reply #54 on:** April 11, 2003, 10:31:33 am »

The leaf switches could certainly be attached to the USB mouse buttons. I have been considering making the mouse buttons prewired with female quick disconnects an option. This seems like it could be a good compliment to the DOT spinner so it could be interfaced completely through the USB mouse.

And yes, Lilwolf is correct. Unfortunately Frontline does not accept an analog input for the rotation.

Minwah · « **Reply #55 on:** April 11, 2003, 10:48:47 am »

Quote from: OSCAR on April 11, 2003, 10:31:33 am

The leaf switches could certainly be attached to the USB mouse buttons. I have been considering making the mouse buttons prewired with female quick disconnects an option. This seems like it could be a good compliment to the DOT spinner so it could be interfaced completely through the USB mouse.

That would be great...my soldering iron is broke!

clok · « **Reply #56 on:** April 11, 2003, 11:11:42 am »

I am SO ready to order one, DISC of Tron and Tempest (almost my 2 favorites). Kudos to Oscar. Cant say how happy this will make me when it comes out!

On a side note, (about Frontline) if this was just a joystick ( the spinner type thing) could you use a second 8 way Joystick with each dir mapped ( also the fire button mapped on each Dir) to fire?

Clok

Oh... I wont name my first Girl after Oscar, but my next pet might get the honor (would that be an honor?) I know when I make my Bezel Artwork (someday) Oscar will get a Thanks on that!!!!

SirPoonga · « **Reply #57 on:** April 11, 2003, 11:41:02 am »

Quote from: clok on April 11, 2003, 11:11:42 am

I know when I make my Bezel Artwork (someday) Oscar will get a Thanks on that!!!!

There we go, Oscar stickers, Mame stickers, Ultimarc stickers, etc.. Your CP will look like an import racer. Maybe yellow stickers will make the emulation faster. We could laugh at the people who have stickers for parts no on their CP.

rampy · « **Reply #58 on:** April 11, 2003, 01:21:52 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on April 11, 2003, 11:41:02 am

Quote from: clok on April 11, 2003, 11:11:42 am
I know when I make my Bezel Artwork (someday) Oscar will get a Thanks on that!!!!

There we go, Oscar stickers, Mame stickers, Ultimarc stickers, etc.. Your CP will look like an import racer. Maybe yellow stickers will make the emulation faster. We could laugh at the people who have stickers for parts no on their CP.

Ha.... just like nascar, even...

"The Oscar, AMD, MAME, Imperial Beston, machine ran real well today... Got lots of bite out of the machined aluminum spinner and the crew did a great job tweaking the Emulaxian FE out there today... "

Aceldamor · « **Reply #59 on:** April 11, 2003, 06:51:26 pm »

Quote from: rampy on April 11, 2003, 01:21:52 pm

Ha.... just like nascar, even...

"The Oscar, AMD, MAME, Imperial Beston, machine ran real well today... Got lots of bite out of the machined aluminum spinner and the crew did a great job tweaking the Emulaxian FE out there today... "

LOL!!!

Great work Oscar....been hesitating buying spinners for a while now. quick question.. With the DOT spinner's weight how feasible would it be to use the spinners as mock steering wheels?

OSCAR · « **Reply #60 on:** April 11, 2003, 07:11:22 pm »

LOL, Rampy! Very funny!

Regarding using them as steering wheels, they will work just fine with with any of the games that originally used a 360deg wheel. I'll post back with more info later on this as I will be doing a lot more intensive testing this weekend on various games.

I received some very good news late today regarding the DOT repro knobs. It looks like I will be able to offer a replica DOT knob in black anodized aluminum. Dimensionally it will be identical to the original DOT knob, the biggest difference will obviously be that it will be a machined aluminum knob in lieu of plastic. The price of this one will be very close to the machined knobs I carry now, somewhere around the $14-$16 range. Will there be enough interest in this knob for me to pursue it and have them fabricated? I will need to have quite a large quantity fabricated to meet my expected sell price, but so far I have only had a few requests for it. Let me know on this one; either by posting here, PM me, or just send me an email.

For those that aren't familiar with the DOT knob, I have a photo here.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

jerryjanis · « **Reply #61 on:** April 11, 2003, 07:20:59 pm »

I'm hoping that I don't order one of your spinners because I already have an original (but I'm soooo tempted - don't know why...).

I don't know if my opinion counts, but I would definetly rather have a reproduction DOT knob - somebody made a really good point that you might want the shape of the knob to make your hand not slip when you push and pull it.

Sasquatch! · « **Reply #62 on:** April 11, 2003, 10:42:18 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on April 11, 2003, 11:41:02 am

Maybe yellow stickers will make the emulation faster. We could laugh at the people who have stickers for parts no on their CP.

Don't be stupid, everyone knows that having fins on your cabinet is what makes emulation faster.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #63 on:** April 11, 2003, 10:48:57 pm »

Nope, it's yellow stickers, lots of yellow stickers, improves HP by 5 per sticker.

OSCAR · « **Reply #64 on:** April 11, 2003, 10:53:14 pm »

Don't forget some duct tape. Real teams always use duct tape for that extra edge.

shmokes · « **Reply #65 on:** April 12, 2003, 01:38:18 am »

It's hard to say. Do the reproduction DOT knobs have any tactile or competitive advantage? I mean, I know that the shape is meant to keep your hand from slipping, but does it? The thing is, I really REALLY like that brushed aluminum look. I'm also a fan of the big two inch knobs offered by slikstik.

So authenticity is clearly not my main concern. Playability is important, though, but since I know that won't be an issue with anything Oscar builds I'm kind of leaning toward aesthetics. Not sure how the black machined aluminum DOT reproduction knob would look compared with the original plastic one, but as far as aesthetic value goes, the plastic DOT is a bit of an eyesore compared with a brushed MAME engraved knob.

Perhaps if the extra functionality is significant I would go for the authentic one, but if it's all nostalgia I'll just stick with brushed aluminum, thanks.

MinerAl · « **Reply #66 on:** April 12, 2003, 03:17:22 am »

$15 for the best knob wouldn't bother me at all.

If I could get the whole package (knob and spinner) for less than $100 I'd order in a heartbeat.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #67 on:** April 12, 2003, 06:16:15 am »

I have to say.... that its very cool to see an older arcade control almost idencally produced! Much props to Oscar.

However... It would be even better if the design were somehow modded to use ball bearings for a smoother spin.

The DOT spinner is a bit too frictiony to use with any other 360 degree games... and is a real effort to move for long periods.

Obviously, such a mod might be very hard to produce due to the complex nature of the inner/outter bearing setup... but again... would make purchasing the thing a lot more viable.

Any ideas on possible bearing mod?

OSCAR · « **Reply #68 on:** April 12, 2003, 10:04:07 am »

Quote from: shmokes on April 12, 2003, 01:38:18 am

It's hard to say. Do the reproduction DOT knobs have any tactile or competitive advantage? I mean, I know that the shape is meant to keep your hand from slipping, but does it? The thing is, I really REALLY like that brushed aluminum look. I'm also a fan of the big two inch knobs offered by slikstik.

So authenticity is clearly not my main concern. Playability is important, though, but since I know that won't be an issue with anything Oscar builds I'm kind of leaning toward aesthetics. Not sure how the black machined aluminum DOT reproduction knob would look compared with the original plastic one, but as far as aesthetic value goes, the plastic DOT is a bit of an eyesore compared with a brushed MAME engraved knob.

Perhaps if the extra functionality is significant I would go for the authentic one, but if it's all nostalgia I'll just stick with brushed aluminum, thanks.

Thanks for your comments. Since a 2" knob keeps getting mentioned, probably more often than the DOT knob, I can look into that. I just question though how did 2" get determined to be the correct size for a spinner? Would 2.25" be better? Perhaps 1.75" or 2.5"? I can have them made any size, that's not the problem.

I have already played with a number of different knob diameters, and I can honestly say that I think Tempest sucks with a 2" or larger knob. The original had a 1.25", and that just allows for quicker action on the spinner. Since I play Tempest probably more than any other game that is important to me, but it may not mean much at all so someone who doesn't play Tempest often. I'm just looking for input here, what size would be most desireable if I had another knob fabricated?

I don't feel that the DOT knob prevents your hand from slipping off, but it is a much more comfortable shape to palm than a straight, cylindrical knob because it allows you easily curl your fingers under the knob without them getting crushed when you push the knob down to the control panel. Otherwise, with a cylindrical knob like my current machined aluminum, you would keep your fingers primarily on the knurled portion of the knob. If you were to use the push/pull features of the spinner often, this may be something to consider.

Quote from: Xiaou2 on April 12, 2003, 06:16:15 am

I have to say.... that its very cool to see an older arcade control almost idencally produced! Much props to Oscar.

However... It would be even better if the design were somehow modded to use ball bearings for a smoother spin.

The DOT spinner is a bit too frictiony to use with any other 360 degree games... and is a real effort to move for long periods.

Obviously, such a mod might be very hard to produce due to the complex nature of the inner/outter bearing setup... but again... would make purchasing the thing a lot more viable.

Any ideas on possible bearing mod?

Thanks, Steve. I had mentioned earlier that I lightened up the mass of the spinner just slightly to address the heavy feel of the spinner. What I didn't mention is that I took an extra .001" out of the bearing to lighten up the feel of the spinner as well. This keeps mine from feeling so "frictiony". The original DOT is a beast, I'll be the first to admit that. I think you will find that my DOT is more friendly to multiple spinner games than the orginal DOT because of the modifications I've made to the design.

I currently do not have plans to do a bearing modification to the DOT. However if you would like to pursue modifying one you purchase, I can help you with that.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #69 on:** April 12, 2003, 11:32:05 am »

I'm in for the DOT repro knob as you mentioned.

I'm not sure if you do your own engraving, but how about offering a DOT repro with the Mame logo on it? I think that is a cool option of your sliver knob.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #70 on:** April 12, 2003, 12:24:20 pm »

I would go with the DOT knob myself. (have you come up with an estimate price yet??).

Why?

I believe that the design of the knob will allow you to push it up and down easier.

And I like the look.

But how well does it work with non-dot games would be the question I guess.

pocketz · « **Reply #71 on:** April 12, 2003, 01:00:17 pm »

i double and triple checked the spin on all 3 of my genuine dot spinners. two of the 3 have ultra silky gliding spinner action, the 3rd has a tiny bit more drag maybe because the knob shaft is slightly bent. if your dot spinner is a beast maybe its in need of a good cleaning and oiling.

the spin isnt really heavy either, after reading all this talk about how its a beast i was suprised at how light the spin of my dot spinner feels. maybe you should take a multivitamin or eat a bowl of wheaties.

oscar, did you need to get a license from bally/midway/disney to make copies of the dot spinners? im gonna guess that there is some kinda patent or something. not that i care but as this hobby gets bigger and bigger, they might want a piece of the pie. better to ask them now instead of two or three years down the road bally/midway/disney wanting back royalties after youve already sold a few thousand.

-pocketz

shmokes · « **Reply #72 on:** April 12, 2003, 01:20:38 pm »

A FEW THOUSAND!!! Are there that many of us

?

You know, I might have to take back what I said. The more I look at that DOT spinner the more I kind of like it. It's really growing on me. I'm starting to think that I might go for the DOT spinner over the brushed one.

OSCAR · « **Reply #73 on:** April 12, 2003, 01:28:01 pm »

Quote from: pocketz on April 12, 2003, 01:00:17 pm

i double and triple checked the spin on all 3 of my genuine dot spinners. two of the 3 have ultra silky gliding spinner action, the 3rd has a tiny bit more drag maybe because the knob shaft is slightly bent. if your dot spinner is a beast maybe its in need of a good cleaning and oiling.

the spin isnt really heavy either, after reading all this talk about how its a beast i was suprised at how light the spin of my dot spinner feels. maybe you should take a multivitamin or eat a bowl of wheaties.

oscar, did you need to get a license from bally/midway/disney to make copies of the dot spinners? im gonna guess that there is some kinda patent or something. not that i care but as this hobby gets bigger and bigger, they might want a piece of the pie. better to ask them now instead of two or three years down the road bally/midway/disney wanting back royalties after youve already sold a few thousand.

-pocketz

Perhaps I should have added a comparison than just stating that it was a beast. I certainly don't want to offend the proud owner of 3 DOT spinners!

I agree that the DOT's do have very smooth action. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong at all with the original DOT design, in fact it is very sturdy and smooth! But have you compared your DOT spinner directly with a Tempest spinner? I have and the DOT does seem a bit beastly in that comparison as a Tempest spinner is very light (aluminum flywheel), that's all I meant. One of my goals was to make the DOT a bit more MAME-friendly in that it would feel just as good in a game like Tempest as well as Tron. Even so, it still feels much more like a Tron spinner that a Tempest spinner.

Nothing firm on the price yet, I hope to have that cleared up early this coming week. The DOT knob is not very well suited to engraving because the flat spot on the top of the knob is fairly small. Right now I'm not planning on engraving the DOT knobs.

Aceldamor · « **Reply #74 on:** April 14, 2003, 11:12:06 am »

I'm a big fan of the DOT knob, I would buy one or two

Oscar....I'm going to be sending you a lot of money I don't have soon!

I have to get 2 spinners.....

Distortion · « **Reply #75 on:** April 14, 2003, 02:31:49 pm »

If it's availible by somtime this summer, I'll be all over it. I've wanted a spinner for some time, but never really wanted it bad enough. This, I believe, would be my calling. I wouldn't buy the DOT spinner unless I had the DOT knob, otherwise, I'd just get the pro model or something.

shmokes · « **Reply #76 on:** April 15, 2003, 02:35:41 pm »

la la la....*pulling my hair out in anticipation*...la dee da...

OSCAR · « **Reply #77 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:37:04 pm »

Thanks for the feedback on the DOT knobs. I've gone ahead and had them started. They will be machined aluminum and black anodized. I don't think I've mentioned it before, but the DOT knob is 1.75" diameter for those that aren't familiar with it.

The release of the DOT knobs will lag behind the release of the DOT spinners by a few weeks since I just had them started. I'll post back when I get a confirmation on the delivery date of the DOT knobs.

I'm also finishing up the pricing on the DOT spinner and I will post that in the next couple of days.

1UP · « **Reply #78 on:** April 18, 2003, 01:17:39 am »

WOW! I go away for a couple weeks and I miss everything! Oscar, are you trying to kill me here?

I never thought I'd give up my Pro, but now I might have to! Just hope it will fit in the same amount of space... Any chance on an upgrade special for Pro owners?

This makes my crappy little up/down hack look pathetic...

shmokes · « **Reply #79 on:** April 18, 2003, 11:34:07 am »

Hah! 1UP, you must be rolling in money. You've already got a Pro with up/down functionality and you're going to swap out with a brand new, presumably expensive spinner?

Pick one up for me while you're at it

!

OSCAR · « **Reply #80 on:** April 18, 2003, 01:33:23 pm »

Okay, here is where I stand on the DOT spinners. My only holdup right now is the tempered spring steel springs. I have sent them all over for pricing and they came back all over the map, some as high as $11/set! As I was sifting through the quotes, I noticed that not everyone was quoting the correct material, or thickness, or whatever. What a nightmare. I can't figure out why that happened, the RFQ & drawings clearly state this info, but anyway...

I'm tentatively setting the price of these at $99, knob not included. To be totally honest this is 5% above my cost, 3% of which will get chewed up by the credit card fees. If I work it out just right, I might just be able to keep one out of the first batch for myself.

I'm still in the process of beating up some of my suppliers for lower pricing, but I'm not having much luck so far. Obviously my goal isn't to make a load of $$ off of these things, I just want to get them out there because the BYOAC'rs have been asking for a DOT spinner solution before I ever made my first post on these boards. If I start bleeding cash too badly, then I may have to increase the price. However I am doing everything I can to try to keep it at $99.

Another alternative I'm looking at to bring the price down is to have all the flat stock fabricated by the older technology panel cutter/forming machinery in lieu of laser cutting. Many of the old arcade controllers, like the Tempest spinner bracket, are made this way. I am still investigating this (possibly) cheaper fabrication process, so I don't know what cost impact it will have. I can say that the laser cut pieces are a higher quality and more precisely fabricated part, so I will have to weigh the pros/cons before I make a final decision on that.

shmokes · « **Reply #81 on:** April 18, 2003, 01:42:41 pm »

$99 + the price of the knob, eh? My wife is going to be piiiiiiisssssed when I order this

Wienerdog · « **Reply #82 on:** April 18, 2003, 03:01:39 pm »

Quote from: OSCAR on April 18, 2003, 01:33:23 pm

To be totally honest this is 5% above my cost, 3% of which will get chewed up by the credit card fees.

There is a way to accept paypal payments without getting charged processing fees, isn't there? I beleive if I pay you from an existing Paypal balance, you are not charged processing fees.

I'm sure that many of the people here would be willing to make a payment a certain way if it meant that you would double your profit. It is possible that you would have to set up a second paypal account that did not allow payments from credit cards. If you say it doesn't matter to you, then I would probably pay by credit card. However, if you say that paypal is making more money on this spinner than you are, I would be mad.

If the fees are different, you might also want to list what your prefered method of payment is (on your order.htm page).

I know you don't need advice from me, but I thought I would give it anyway.

Nice spinner! I assume shipping would be cheaper if we wait for a spinner + DOT knob, right. (lol, I don't want UPS to make more than you either!).

OSCAR · « **Reply #83 on:** April 18, 2003, 04:25:23 pm »

Quote from: Wienerdog on April 18, 2003, 03:01:39 pm

There is a way to accept paypal payments without getting charged processing fees, isn't there? I beleive if I pay you from an existing Paypal balance, you are not charged processing fees.

I'm sure that many of the people here would be willing to make a payment a certain way if it meant that you would double your profit. It is possible that you would have to set up a second paypal account that did not allow payments from credit cards. If you say it doesn't matter to you, then I would probably pay by credit card. However, if you say that paypal is making more money on this spinner than you are, I would be mad.

If the fees are different, you might also want to list what your prefered method of payment is (on your order.htm page).

I know you don't need advice from me, but I thought I would give it anyway.

Nice spinner! I assume shipping would be cheaper if we wait for a spinner + DOT knob, right. (lol, I don't want UPS to make more than you either!).

Thanks for the suggestion. I had briefly considered something like that, but I don't want to add to the complexity of placing orders. Believe it or not, but sending payment via PayPal is actually the #1 source of emails I get asking for help, not tech support for spinners! This was one of the reasons I added a standard internet CC processing shopping cart to compliment the PayPal shopping cart. I'm afraid that adding an extra step or complicating the ordering process by requiring certain stipulations would actually cause me more headache than just sucking it up and paying the CC fees. Besides, I'm used to not even seeing a good chunk of my so-called "profit".

Regarding the knob purchase, I agree that if you would like to also purchase the DOT knob to go with the spinner, then it would be cheaper to wait until they are available together to avoid double shipping costs.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #84 on:** April 18, 2003, 05:06:44 pm »

Hi Oscar,

You may wish to put up instructions for something like western union.

I had heard that there were troubles with paypal service... so in a recent ebay winning, the seller directed me to use 'Bidpay' @ www.bidpay.com Is a service of western union.

Basically, the payee gives the information via creditcard on the net via thier site - which in tern they end up charging the buyer a small fee of like 5$ or less. They then send a money order (and a confirm incomming email) to the seller - as soon as the transaction has been settled.

I was lazy and didnt want to go to the post office... and the 5$ fee wasnt going to kill me... so it turned out rather nicely.

Was alo good because I didnt have to wait for the seller to actually get the money order via mail. As soon as the email was sent to him that I had paid... he sent out the merchandise - thus illiminating a much longer wait time : )

GroovyTuesdaY · « **Reply #85 on:** April 18, 2003, 06:40:40 pm »

In response to the PAYPAL slam, i can honestly say that in over 2 years of using PayPal that i have NEVER had paypal screw something up and i have done ALOT of transactions with paypal. My most recent being for my slikstik.

So in short, i think some people out there are just trying to start rumors against paypal for no good reason.

This is just my humble oppinion!

G~

SirPoonga · « **Reply #86 on:** April 18, 2003, 06:52:16 pm »

Quote from: GROOVYTUESDAY on April 18, 2003, 06:40:40 pm

In response to the PAYPAL slam, i can honestly say that in over 2 years of using PayPal that i have NEVER had paypal screw something up and i have done ALOT of transactions with paypal. My most recent being for my slikstik.

So in short, i think some people out there are just trying to start rumors against paypal for no good reason.

This is just my humble oppinion!

G~

I like paypal. I've had them screw up over a little bank problem, right now my account doesn't have a bank assigned to it because of that. Paypal is being a ---tallywhacker--- about it. I just need to start a new savings account sometime and assign that to it. Which I think would be more secure. I could transfer the money only needed for paypal electronically from one savings account with my bank to the new one. Then go off and paypal:) Otherwise I paypal all the time between friends and online services.

CM · « **Reply #87 on:** April 18, 2003, 10:12:10 pm »

Quote from: shmokes on April 18, 2003, 01:42:41 pm

$99 + the price of the knob, eh? My wife is going to be piiiiiiisssssed when I order this

but certainly she will forgive you the first time she fires up DOT and appreciates the authentic controls .. certainly ... women notice these things

1UP · « **Reply #88 on:** April 18, 2003, 11:55:47 pm »

Quote from: shmokes on April 18, 2003, 11:34:07 am

Hah! 1UP, you must be rolling in money. You've already got a Pro with up/down functionality and you're going to swap out with a brand new, presumably expensive spinner?

Pick one up for me while you're at it !

Not really rolling in money, I just can't pass up authentic controls (I'll be eating Top Ramen for weeks if I actually decide to get one... $:-\$ )

However, I'm reconsidering now after seeing the price. I want Oscar to make a profit, but I don't actually play DOT enough to justify replacing my practically brand-new Pro just yet...

Still, it's way cool and makes me green with envy!

CitznFish · « **Reply #89 on:** April 19, 2003, 01:07:54 am »

either I can't remember, or I am a saaad individual. Not once when playing DOT do I remember pulling up or pushing down on the spinner.

No wonder I sucked at that game.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #90 on:** April 19, 2003, 04:25:43 am »

Hi CitznFish,

Well, you only got to use the up/down part later in the game. I think it starts at the 6th level. The platforms then are either vertically higher or lower than the next - or they also move up/down as well... thus you have to aim up/down to be able to hit sark.

Some of the levels are quite tough... so getting to the up/down part can be a real challenge for sure.

There is another option for DOT spinners that I had thought up a long time ago... and that was to make the enitre spinner assembly mount on a pivot.

So the x position was read as normal... without any adjustments needed to be made to the spinner... and the y reading would be from moving the spinner forward twords the monitor, or back twords yourself. The pivot attaches on one end to an optic disc / reader... or the assembly itself
hits 2 leaf or microswitches.

Should be fairly easy to make... and should play decently... maybe even better than the original. Might be interesting for other games as well.

Additions could be removable centering springs, and or a locking system that keeps the vertical axis locked when not needed.

KevSteele · « **Reply #91 on:** April 19, 2003, 03:12:17 pm »

I'm glad the DOT spinner will have a DOT knob -- it just wouldn't be "right" otherwise. Black anodized is also cool beyond words.

Speaking of knobs, Chris at SlikStik just emailed me a sneak peek of their new spinner knob:

Solid one-piece milled aluminum. No word on pricing or dimensions, but it sure looks pretty. In addition, they'll be offering red, blue or purple anodizing.

Looks like it'll be a good time to go knob shopping soon!

planetjay · « **Reply #92 on:** May 30, 2003, 06:29:56 pm »

Quote from: OSCAR on April 08, 2003, 08:30:03 pm

A comparison photo of the OSCAR DOT, Pro, and an original Tempest spinner.

So after looking at this again I have to ask... A Tempest clone would be downright easy wouldn't it? Maybe also modified for 3/4" plywood? Maybe a smaller diameter inside but the same number of "spokes?" on the wheel? Maybe an option to be mounted on an original Tempest CP with a plate or adapter? Optional repro knob or maybe a lookalike done in aluminum and anodized black?


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