Gorrila Glue = No Bolts for joys

[acevedor2]

I have read many posts of people using Gorilla Glue to repair stuff or as EXTRA protection for holding, my question is, has anyon etried just using Gorilla Glue to hold the Joys in/down instead of usin carriage bolts or screws. 

Hving used the stuff, it would generally break whatever it is held to before it would come loose.  Rather than worry about a bunch of carriage bolts, I was thinking about just using Gorilla glue to hold th joys.  Thoughts?

[SirPeale]

Sure!  It'll work...for a little while.  A very little while.  You've got to remember that joysticks are constantly vibrating and moving.  Glue doesn't like that.  Little by little it *will* crack and break down, then one day when you're attempting a cool finishing move your joystick will suddenly just pop down inside your control panel.

[acevedor2]

Have you tried it?  I had the same thought...initially, but this isn't Elmer's, it's Gorilla Glue.  And having used it before I find it very hard to think of it just failing.  Again, I am skeptical myself which is why I would love to hear from anyone who might have tried it.  Thanks and have a great day.

[saint]

What happens when your joystick needs repair, cleaning, or replacement?  I'd never permanently mount anything in an arcade cabinet.

[acevedor2]

Saint,
   Then would you ever recommend flush mounting the joys with the CPO on top of the Carriage bolts (i.e. the "clean" look)?  I ask because it's the same scenario.  With the bolts through the CP, you can easily change out the joys.  Without the bolts, it looks better, but you would ruin the CPO if you ever had to change them.  Not to mention the fact that many people end up using wood filler around their joys to ensure they are flush prior to putting the CPO on.

I am very interested in your thoughts because my intention right now is to route and flush mount the joys and then put the CPO and Lexan on so that no bolts show.  This will make it very hard, however, to ever reomove the joys if there are problems with the joys.   

[superbovine]

I would wager it would work fine if you prepped it well...... my front door deveoped a split from hurricane damage that eventually separated the door into two vertical pieces (2x7 and 1x7).  Gorilla glued it back together and its been fine for years..... with two door-slamming children.
Just make sure you have it where you want it

[Hoopz]

Saint,
   Then would you ever recommend flush mounting the joys with the CPO on top of the Carriage bolts (i.e. the "clean" look)?  I ask because it's the same scenario.  With the bolts through the CP, you can easily change out the joys.  Without the bolts, it looks better, but you would ruin the CPO if you ever had to change them.  Not to mention the fact that many people end up using wood filler around their joys to ensure they are flush prior to putting the CPO on.

I am very interested in your thoughts because my intention right now is to route and flush mount the joys and then put the CPO and Lexan on so that no bolts show.  This will make it very hard, however, to ever reomove the joys if there are problems with the joys.   

That's not exactly true.  You would have trouble removing the bolts without removing the CPO but could remove the joys.  I used machine screws that were longer than what was needed.   That way, I could remove the bolt by holding on to the screw with a pair of pliers.  The screws don't move but I can remove the joys whenever I want.  Obviously, if I want to move the joys from one place to another, I can't do that without taking off the CPO etc.

[pointdablame]

When I flush mount joysticks, I sacrifice the joystick base, unless its a rare or more expensive joystick with a unique base.

If its a comp or super or similar...I'll just mount it knowing it'll be difficult to remove the base.  You can take out ever other piece of the joystick however, and just replace it if you ever need to.

that's my .02 anyway.  I don't worry much about the base of a $10 joystick. 

[FrizzleFried]

If you are using a wood CP...simply route out about 1/4" of the wood in the shape of your joystick base.  Drill your carriage bolt holes...but on the front side,  drill down about 1/8" at the same width as the head of your carriage bolt.  Insert bolts with the heads slipping down in to the slightly larger drilled part.   Install the CPO over the panel...over the countersunk carriage bolts...

Now you have 4 bolts coming out of the bottom of the CP...which you can install a joystick to and change it out as necessary.

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would even consider using a Gorilla Glue.   The method described above works perfectly...and has worked perfectly for many years.

[SirPeale]

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would even consider using a Gorilla Glue.   The method described above works perfectly...and has worked perfectly for many years.

As opposed to dog years. 

What I've done is route out a block on top of the CP for a plate of plexi to set down into it.  Route another circular piece for the dust washer.  Where the bolts go a small indentation for T nuts.  That way you can bolt from the underside, you never see the bolts, ever. 

[leapinlew]

I screwed mine in from the botton on my last arcade. No problems in it's short life. Before I did this, I flush mounted my carriage bolts. I liked this method and would do it again.

[acevedor2]

Lew - what did you do - countersink the carriage bolts from the top and then recess the joy base in the bottom?  That is kind of the method I am looking at now.  For the Trigger joy it has to be top mounted, I see no other way.  This means that I will have to route the recess for the trigger joy about 1/8" deeper so the heads of the carriage bolts don't stick up.  The problem with that, is as I said before, then you have a gap between the plate of the trigger joy and the CPO.  No adhesion there...The Trigger joy base is fairly big.

As far as to the answer of "Why would anyone use Gorilla Glue."  The answer is simple - if it works, it will be FAR easier than any other method mentioned.  Again, I am not saying it will work, though I am likely to try it just to test it.  I understand the old tried and true method of bolts and recesses works great.  I got that.  However would it not be easier to not have to countersink any bolts, or T nut recesses, etc.  You simple route the recess for the joy in the bottom and glue it up. 

I certainly appreciate all of the input.  Cheers.

[Ken Layton]

What happens when your joystick needs repair, cleaning, or replacement?  I'd never permanently mount anything in an arcade cabinet.

EXACTLY!

Us professionals would never even consider glue.

[Flip_Willie]

    I really don't understand what is wrong with bolts.  They really don't look that bad.  And so far, I have never even noticed them during gameplay on my arcade.


Just as it is,
Flip Willie

[leapinlew]

Lew - what did you do - countersink the carriage bolts from the top and then recess the joy base in the bottom?  That is kind of the method I am looking at now.  For the Trigger joy it has to be top mounted, I see no other way.  This means that I will have to route the recess for the trigger joy about 1/8" deeper so the heads of the carriage bolts don't stick up.  The problem with that, is as I said before, then you have a gap between the plate of the trigger joy and the CPO.  No adhesion there...The Trigger joy base is fairly big.

I countersunk from the top, but I didn't mess with recessing the bottom. Some people do it so they can have the joystick stick up another 1/4", but it doesn't bother me.

For the joysticks I mounted from the bottom - I just used some drywall screws and screwed them to the CP from the bottom. Works fine - I'd do it again.

[leapinlew]

    I really don't understand what is wrong with bolts.  They really don't look that bad.  And so far, I have never even noticed them during gameplay on my arcade.


Just as it is,
Flip Willie

Your right - it doesn't look bad. But... It's a little more hassle drilling through plexi to mount them. Not much hassle, but enough that I avoided it. Once installed, I preferred the look of no carriage bolts.

[DrewKaree]

You could epoxy the bolts into the top to keep everything smooth under your CPO, but if you ever want to change the joystick and the bolt holes don't match up.....   I suppose you'd end up having to use some sort of filler to patch the old holes, so perhaps you'd want to make a new CP anyway (use a flush trim bit in your router for a quick and easy copy).

Easier to countersink the top of your CP, apply your CPO, then trim out the countersunk area if you want a smooth finish....I guess I haven't really read this well enough to figure out why permanently attaching a joystick might be considered preferable (ease of installation isn't a good reason to do this).

Meh

[rdowdy95]

I am going to be going with bolts from the top, and they will be showing.  Lots of Arcade machines had the look with bolts actually showing.  They will hold up better as well.

[DrewKaree]

Now you have 4 bolts coming out of the bottom of the CP...which you can install a joystick to and change it out as necessary.

I figured I'd take a bit of time and re-read this thread to try to figure out what's going on specifically, and noticed this bit.

The mounting holes are NOT all the same, so you'd be able to change out a joystick with an IDENTICAL one, but not necessarily ANY one.

Also, rather than using carriage bolts, you can get tapered-head machine screws that will fit better and require less filling (if someone decides to fill in the excess) than a carriage bolt - I see the term "carriage bolt", and I always envision a hex-head bolt/screw.

[DrewKaree]

What I envision a carriage bolt to be:



or this:




The piece I'm suggesting:



Alternatively, using FF's method, you could get a better fit using something like these:



Any and all of these should be available at your local hardware store.

[acevedor2]

Thanks to all the for all of the advice.  A couple of notes and comments:

The reason I was considering using Gorilla Glue was so that there would not be any tapering or countersinking bolt holes.  Additionally, the chances of my CPO not sticking due   Yes, I do realize that to some it is not that big of a deal.  I, however, am brand new at the woodworking thing so anything that prevents me from screwing up the better. I, as a novice at this, was just looking for other options.  This board has so many experts that have been doing this for years that I really do value everyone's opinion.  

The other comment I find kind of ironic is that many people have said that the "professionals" would never permanently mount a joystick.  What I find ironic about that is that those same people have no problem with countersinking bolt holes and putting a CPO and plexi over them.  Some have even used wood filler over the joys to ensure they are flush.  I will give you that it is not absolutely mounted forever in that case, but I would argue that it is probably as much effort to scribe out the sides of the joy that are glued in to loosen and get it out in what I was suggesting,  than it would be to remove the buttons so you could remove the lexan so that you could remove/ruin the CPO, so you could remove the carriage bolts, so you could replace the joy in the other widely acceptable method.  Seems pretty darned "permanent" to me in either case - glued or bolted flush.

I am really now leaning towards Dowdy and leaving my bolt holes exposed - for a variety of reasons:

1.  Almost every arcade I have ever visited has bolt heads showing.
2.  I have a 7 year old who has friends that will be playing this cab and the need to replace joys will likely arise.
3.  It simplifies a number of things for installation including the fact that it would take care of the Lexan staying down issue.

I wanted to say thanks again for all of the thoughts and advice.  It really is invaluable information.  Cheers  

[Hoopz]

My suggestion is to try it on a scrap piece of wood and see if you can drill four holes, mount a joy, and then remove it without stopping the head of the screw/bolt from moving.

I have never had to take any of my CPOs off but I have removed and replaced joys.  It's really not hard at all to do.

And countersinking the screws/bolts isn't hard either.  Its an extra bit to buy that isn't expensive and you can practice for about 3 minutes and be an expert!  If I can, so can you! 

Regarding the lexan staying down, I have had a couple of CPs with lexan and one without.  Even with having three young children beating the crap out of them, I much prefer the style without.  Regardless, for the ones I had with lexan, my buttons held down the lexan without any other bolts.  I never had the kids trying to lift the lexan up or any movement whatsoever. YMMV. 

[patrickl]

The other comment I find kind of ironic is that many people have said that the "professionals" would never permanently mount a joystick.  What I find ironic about that is that those same people have no problem with countersinking bolt holes and putting a CPO and plexi over them.  Some have even used wood filler over the joys to ensure they are flush.  I will give you that it is not absolutely mounted forever in that case, but I would argue that it is probably as much effort to scribe out the sides of the joy that are glued in to loosen and get it out in what I was suggesting,  than it would be to remove the buttons so you could remove the lexan so that you could remove/ruin the CPO, so you could remove the carriage bolts, so you could replace the joy in the other widely acceptable method.  Seems pretty darned "permanent" to me in either case - glued or bolted flush.

People using wood filler would probably be using t-nuts. These are mounted on the top, countersunk and woodfilled and all. You then screw the bolts for the sticks in from underneath. Replacable and no screws visible.

[Ken Layton]

Thanks to all the for all of the advice.  A couple of notes and comments:

The other comment I find kind of ironic is that many people have said that the "professionals" would never permanently mount a joystick.  What I find ironic about that is that those same people have no problem with countersinking bolt holes and putting a CPO and plexi over them.  Some have even used wood filler over the joys to ensure they are flush.  I will give you that it is not absolutely mounted forever in that case, but I would argue that it is probably as much effort to scribe out the sides of the joy that are glued in to loosen and get it out in what I was suggesting,  than it would be to remove the buttons so you could remove the lexan so that you could remove/ruin the CPO, so you could remove the carriage bolts, so you could replace the joy in the other widely acceptable method.  Seems pretty darned "permanent" to me in either case - glued or bolted flush.

I have literally built hundreds of control panels (metal and wood) over the years and I only use carriage bolts through the panel. Never would I even consider the other methods you mention. I have seem some 'professionals' that do that crap and their panels end up looking like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[acevedor2]

Great discussion here and I think I am convinced.  Although I know I will probably catch crap for this, I actually think that I am going to do it with bolts showing down through the top of the Lexan.  It is not as smooth and seemless but I think it will ultimately be easier and provide more flexibility or me with respect to joy repair/replacement down the road. 
I think that after I have built a few of these, I will feel more confident using othr methods.  Cheers.

[deadkenndys1105]

I have my screw on the under side of my CP so there not showing at all.  You have to use some kinda of short and really wide screw though.  I used the screws for mounting a PC fan because there very wide and really short.  They have came loose one or twice but thats because I forgot to put the washer there.  Honestly if you do it right you can literately hit the joystick with a hammer for the side and the joystick will brake before the screws rip out.  You should see some people play pacman on the thing and I start yelling.

[danny_galaga]

People using wood filler would probably be using t-nuts. These are mounted on the top, countersunk and woodfilled and all. You then screw the bolts for the sticks in from underneath. Replacable and no screws visible.

my thoughts too. if i wanted the bolts to be hidden, the first thing that comes to mind is t nuts

[Turnarcades]

I'm in England and I use Suzo joysticks for all of my control panels. Because of their design they are meant for metal control panels, as they have a 'flared' base on the shaft of the joystick and require fairly close mounting to the surface of the panel.

However, as these joysticks (with a short lever throw) were found on loads of generic cabinets due to how hard-wearing they are, I love to use them as they feel great to use. Counter-sinking the bolt holes as you would any screw holes works just as well on the joysticks, and can be filled if this is what you prefer. If you have a perspex (plexi-glass, if you prefer!) control panel they can still be sunk into the wood before applying the top plastic, though you wont get the extra 'pinning' force around the base of your joystick on the perspex, so it may lift a little if not secured down properly.

Personally, I don't use perspex covers or carriage bolts at all, I use paint-finished control panels, routed out underneath to sit the joystick base into, then counter-sunk holes with screw-headed bolts to get the tightest fit possible, before filling the surface with a flexible wood filler.

The flexible wood filler sands down flat and can be painted over, but is still soft enough under the surface to be 'dug-out' if the bolts ever need to be removed.

[Chris]

than it would be to remove the buttons so you could remove the lexan so that you could remove/ruin the CPO, so you could remove the carriage bolts, so you could replace the joy in the other widely acceptable method.

Why would you do all this as opposed to, say, just taking the nuts off the bottom of the bolts and sliding the joystick off?

[acevedor2]

Not possible if you recess the joys and mount from the top.

[More Cowbell]

I have my screw on the under side of my CP so there not showing at all. 

This is what I did as well. I've had my cab done for over a year and never a problem (even with two insane boys cranking away at it, well three if you count me). If I ever did have a problem I would probably just replace the screws with carriage bolts that show, it doesn't bother me.

[Chris]

Not possible if you recess the joys and mount from the top.

Then whatever method you use, glue, nuts, bolts, or chewing gum, you have to remove the buttons and CPO to lift the joystick out anyway.

[somunny]

People using wood filler would probably be using t-nuts. These are mounted on the top, countersunk and woodfilled and all. You then screw the bolts for the sticks in from underneath. Replacable and no screws visible.

My opinion/experience; Installing the t-nuts in the top of the panel and the joysticks on the underside of the panel is an excellent method as the tension on the screws pulls the t-nuts into the wood.  If you use a lock washer on the screws, the joysticks will never come loose.

This is how I did the panel on my mini cabinet for the kids.  It gets a ton of use and the sticks are still rock-solid.

[rdowdy95]

Good questions and good answers.  I think good ole Ken Layton has some good info.  He has done it and seen it all.    You can use carriage bolts and expose them, or you can countersink them flush.  I have a good countersink bit, or you could just use a big drill bit wide enough to countersink the head of the bolt then use lexan on top. 

I am not doing lexan because I am lazy and I am not really going for that kind of look.  Carriage bolts going in from the top to the bottom with a nice plain jane wood control panel is what I am going for.

Currently in the design stages.

[RandyT]

Everyone will have a differing view on this topic.

Mine is:  If you can see the bolt heads used for mounting a standard joystick, and your panel isn't made out of metal, you've needlessly sacrificed aesthetics for durability.

There are a number of ways to provide nearly as much durability (several times what is necessary for a home unit) without trashing the look of that fancy overlay you spent so much time and money on.  T-Nuts from the top and Threaded Inserts from below are a couple of good options.

I can understand if your panel is just plain black melamine or shelf paper and you just want the easiest / fastest way to "git er dun", but hearing that carriage bolts are the best way to mount sticks makes me cringe.

But that's just my opinion

RandyT

[acevedor2]

One question would be how do you recess the holes for the T-nuts.  Which bit and what jig.  Or would you just try and free hand.  I guess I am just a little daunted by the fact that I will be trying to route a recess about 1/2 wide and about 1/16 of an inch deep so the t-nuts fit flush.  Does anyone have a good jig setup idea for for this?

I do have the threaded nuts that I can use from below for the other joys, but I have to mount the trigger joy from the top, unless someone knows another way.  The base for the trigger joy is metal.  One of the things I have considered is chamfer the holes of the base plate so that they can accept a flat head machine screw.  Then when I recess the trigger joy flush and mount it, the screws will be flush as well.

Any ideas?  Thanks!

[acevedor2]

Ok, the more I think about it, the more I realize that you guyts are right (of course you already knew that as you have been doing this for much longer than me )

So I have decided  how I will mount the other three joys, recessed into the bottom with Pan Head Bolts countersunk up top.  What I can't/haven't figured out yet is how to mount the trigger joy.  It has a metal mounting plate up top, look slike 16 gauge or so.  Recessing the top of the CP for it to be top mounted (which is the only way it will go) is not a problem.  The problem is how to hide the bolts that will be used to secure it to the CP.

Any thoughts?

[More Cowbell]

Have you thought of trying Gorilla Glue? 

[acevedor2]

Yep - sure did

I was talked out of it (see above thread for details )

[More Cowbell]

  = joke
 

[acevedor2]

I did get that it was a joke, and the reply was my attempt at the same.....

Cheers.

[patrickl]

One question would be how do you recess the holes for the T-nuts.  Which bit and what jig.  Or would you just try and free hand.  I guess I am just a little daunted by the fact that I will be trying to route a recess about 1/2 wide and about 1/16 of an inch deep so the t-nuts fit flush.  Does anyone have a good jig setup idea for for this?

I used a simple wood drill. Well 3 actually. With decreasing  diameter, one for the recess of the top, one for the threaded part of the nut and one (entirely through the wood) for the bolt. The biggest one was a spade bit and the other two are standard drill bits.

[acevedor2]

Thanks.  I appreciate the info.  Spade bit sounds like the way to go for the nut itself.  Any thoughts on how to mount the trigger joy flush?  Again, the metal plate must be mounted from the top, and even if recessed will need a bolt going down through the top.

[patrickl]

I'm not familiar with the "trigger stick" that you are using. I guess most (if not all) joysticks were designed to be mounted under a metal CP. Is there a problem with the handle length? Or you don't want to take it apart to mount it?

I "mid" mounted my happs galaga/ms pacman reuninon. I put the stick between two layers of wood. The top layer had the t-nut and the bottom layer was routed out from the top. So it is sandwiched between the layers of wood. The screws bond the layers of wood together so it is strong anyway.

I wanted it to have artwork on top with no bolts showing, have the ability to be taken apart and the galaga/ms pac has a short handle. The short handle makes people say it can only be mounted in a metal mounting plate. Mine works fine in a wood CP. But then I don't like the stick so it was useless  anyway

[acevedor2]

Because of the design of the trigger joy, it is designed to be mounted from the top - (see below). You can see by the design that there really is no way to mount it from the bottom. 

Right now I am exploring 2 options:

Recess the top enough so that the cariage bolt heads are flush with the top.  This will work, but will then require me fill or place some kind of material to fill the distance between the plate and the CPO.

Option 2 is to countersink the bolt holesa little so that flat head bolts will sit flush.  This might be doable, but will be tricky because the factory holes that exist for the bolts are for square. 

[ahofle]

Just looking at the picture, it looks to me like it's designed to be mounted below a metal control panel with carriage bolts on top. 

[acevedor2]

Yeah - got that.  Poblem is it is going into a wood cab and I want it flush under the CPO.  Any thoughts?

[Chris]

Yeah - got that.  Poblem is it is going into a wood cab and I want it flush under the CPO.  Any thoughts?

I think you had the right idea... recess it all 1/8" to bring the bolt heads below CPO level, and fashion a cover plate out of 1/8" plexi or hardboard with recesses on the bottom of the coverplate for the bolt heads.  With the CPO going over that, you won't need to fasten the coverplate down at all, although a little spray adhesive on the back will allow it to tack down and still be easy to pry out for maintenace if you like.

[acevedor2]

Will it be hard to make the cover plate?  Not sure how I would get a piece of MDF that thin to fill in?  I was actually thinking maybe cardboard.  It is easy to cut and shape and should provide the necessary support to the CPO.  Thoughts?

[Chris]

Will it be hard to make the cover plate?  Not sure how I would get a piece of MDF that thin to fill in?  I was actually thinking maybe cardboard.  It is easy to cut and shape and should provide the necessary support to the CPO.  Thoughts?

Not MDF, just a small plate of plexi or hardboard (Masonite, fiberboard, whatever you want to call it).  Or even 1/8 balsa wood from a hobby store.  Cardboard would probably be fine too.

[patrickl]

You will not be able to remove it easily if you use a coverplate which is then covered by a CPO. I guess it's not a problem really if you don't think you will ever want to take it a apart. On the other hand I liked to keep that option available (for addition of new controls or replacement or something) So I went for the "mid" mounting. Use a thinner layer of wood (or lexan or whatever) on top and a thicker one on the bottom.

[javeryh]

Why don't you just use wood screws and attach the joystick from underneath? You might need to get a longer shaft for the joystick if you aren't going to route any material away underneath though.  This is what I did on my current cabinet - the joystick will be secured using 4 wood screws.  I don't think it will move once the screws are in place.  ??Here are some pics (of course the screws aren't in yet but you get the idea).

 

Couldn't you do the same thing but without routing out the material like I did?  Would this work or am I completely missing something?

[acevedor2]

It is impossible to mount the trigger joy to the bottom without signifcant modifications to the joystick - -which by the way was 105 bucks!  It is not  anormal joy.  The normal joys can be bottom mounted no sweat.  Only one giving me issues now is the mounting of the trigger joy.  I might end up using bolts through the top for that one.  Wouldn't be optimal because you could see them on the top but at least it would only be 4 instead of for all of the joys.

[leapinlew]

I would just use Gorilla Glue.





 




Seriously, just mount it from the top and be done with it.

[patrickl]

if you open up the handle, can't you mount it from below then? you will need to take it apart to put the dust washer on top of the Cp anyway. I really doubt the joy was designed to be mounted from the top.

[miles2912]

Route the top of your CP so the plate sits flush.  Same way most of us mount trackballs and the way I mounted my 4 way.  Check out the pic -4-way's mounting plate is nect to the hole.




Don

[markrvp]

Route the top of your CP so the plate sits flush.  Same way most of us mount trackballs and the way I mounted my 4 way.  Check out the pic -4-way's mounting plate is nect to the hole.




Don

DING, DING, DING - we have a winner.

You're going to HAVE TO remove the handle from the base at some point to put on your artwork, unless your planning to cut a hole big enough for the trigger stick in your artwork.

Route out enough space for the base ON TOP of the panel and then route it deep enough so that the top of your carriage bolts will be flush with the top of the panel.  Then use some type of filler on the top of the base to make it even with the top of the panel.  Even if you don't use a filler, you can NOT ADHERE the artwork to the base (to hide the recess and bolt tops).  Put plexi over the top of the artwork and no one will ever know. 

THIS IS HOW I MOUNTED MY ORIGINAL TRON TRIGGER STICK.

[ChadTower]

Little by little it *will* crack and break down, then one day when you're attempting a cool finishing move your joystick will suddenly just pop down inside your control panel.

Hopefully he'll get lucky and the rabbit won't die.

[Mattiekrome]

Lew - what did you do - countersink the carriage bolts from the top and then recess the joy base in the bottom? 

Judging by some of the pics in the "Show your CP thread", this is a fairly common mounting method?  I'm going to be putting an 8 way comp and a 4 way super in a small CP i'm making, and I found this thread while trying to figure out how to mount these things.

I'm just thinking though... I will have a a 5/8" MDF CP with a 1/8" sheet of Lexan on top.  If I recess the bottom of the CP by 1/4" then countersink the bolt holes y 1/4" on top, isnt that going to mean there is only 1/4" MDF actually holding on to these sticks?  Since so many people use this method, I would assume its still quite strong, but sort of makes me cringe...  After reading some other threads I'm now thinking of doing a 1/4"recess on the bottom with some T-nuts flush mounted on top.

[Jdurg]

On my CP I'm mounting the joysticks and trackball from the top.  So I've routed out a good deal of the plywood from the top, and it still is quite strong.  Once the Joystick bases and the trackball plate have been installed, I'll be putting a solid piece of study cardboard or paper to flatten out the top.  The artwork will go on top of that, then the lexan on top of that.  The buttons will hold down everything and the bolts will be fully hidden.  This will work out just fine.

[kegger]

T-nuts used for mounting underneath CP

[ErikRuud]

First off, I wouldn't use any method of permanently mounting any of my controls.

Secondly Gorilla Glue is really formulated for porous materials and very tight tolerances.  It loses a lot of it's strength with non-porous matrials or if there are gaps in the joint.

With proper planning, you can have no visible mounting hardware, plenty of strength, and flexibility to change out the controls.

Take a look at these two pictures.

[Namco]

I love carriage bolts. Pac-Man had carriage bolts. Every Street Fighter I've ever seen had them. Centipede, Donkey Kong, and NeoGeos too. I rub them with my fingertip between rounds. I often try to get my fingernail underneath them to check for proper Sometimes I'd talk to them and ask them why they've turned brown. Oxidation or cigarette burns they would always tell me. I would notice that some were bigger than others and some were smoother than others. I use their helpful presence like braille to help find the buttons and stick.

Our relationship has turned sour recently however. I took the ones that came to live with me in my Carrier Airwings cabinet, pulled them from their pre-drilled homes and subjected them each to 30 seconds in the drill against some sandpaper. It was for their own good and they look shiny and as good as new in their new Street Fighter 2 panel, but I feel their resentment with every downward glance.

Anyway, in summary if you don't use visible carriage bolts on your control panel in the same way that it's been done in the arcade industry since Space Wars, then you're against the arcade industry... and you're a terrorist too no doubt. 

[MaximRecoil]

I like carriage bolts too. They have a solid, industrial, no-nonsense look to them. When you see those 4 carriage bolts around a joystick, you know that joystick isn't going anywhere, no matter how aggressively you play the game.

My Punch-Out control panel has 10 carriage bolts (not to mention 6 carriage bolts on each side of the machine for the monitor brackets) and I wouldn't have it any other way. I especially like the pair of carriage bolts below the big blue KO punch button. I always wondered what those were for when I was a kid. Now that I know their purpose I like them even more.

[Mattiekrome]

I'm just thinking though... I will have a a 5/8" MDF CP with a 1/8" sheet of Lexan on top.  If I recess the bottom of the CP by 1/4" then countersink the bolt holes y 1/4" on top, isnt that going to mean there is only 1/4" MDF actually holding on to these sticks?  Since so many people use this method, I would assume its still quite strong, but sort of makes me cringe...  After reading some other threads I'm now thinking of doing a 1/4"recess on the bottom with some T-nuts flush mounted on top.

Finally tracked down some Tee Nuts at Lowes tonight and noticed that they all came in 1/2" deep sizes.  Along the same lines as the above query...  If you have a 5/8" MDF CP, recess the sticks on the bottom by 1/4", then use these 1/2" Tee Nuts on top to flush mount on top of the CP, there will literally be no MDF inbetween the stick base and the thread of the tee nut... is this how others have done it? (or did you use 1/4" tee nuts?)

And I also found some of the threaded inserts that I saw RandyT mention in a diff. thread, those were all 1/2" deep as well.  So, I guess its the same application for those?

   So many Q's

[severdhed]

i mounted my joysticks from the bottom of my wooden panel using wood screws.  they have held up just fine, and there are no holes in the top of the panel at all.  and they are easy to remove if you need to replace/repair something.

[brandon]

T-nuts are nice.. and its not anti-classic or anything.. My Robotron cabinet has T-Nuts and I've seen other classic machines with them as well.  It personally preference but like everybody else said I wouldnt do anything perminent and I dont think glue will hold up as well as a mechanical attachment.

[ids]

Just tried under mounting with 1/4" chicago bolts - drilled a 3/16" hole for the outer piece - works like a charm, I think I'll be going with this.

[patrickl]

I'm just thinking though... I will have a a 5/8" MDF CP with a 1/8" sheet of Lexan on top.  If I recess the bottom of the CP by 1/4" then countersink the bolt holes y 1/4" on top, isnt that going to mean there is only 1/4" MDF actually holding on to these sticks?  Since so many people use this method, I would assume its still quite strong, but sort of makes me cringe...  After reading some other threads I'm now thinking of doing a 1/4"recess on the bottom with some T-nuts flush mounted on top.

Finally tracked down some Tee Nuts at Lowes tonight and noticed that they all came in 1/2" deep sizes.  Along the same lines as the above query...  If you have a 5/8" MDF CP, recess the sticks on the bottom by 1/4", then use these 1/2" Tee Nuts on top to flush mount on top of the CP, there will literally be no MDF inbetween the stick base and the thread of the tee nut... is this how others have done it? (or did you use 1/4" tee nuts?)

I used 1/4" deep t-nuts

[spacies]

Bolts all the way.