Flat Pack Arcade Cabinets

[Nick Woodruffe]

Having read through many of the posts in these forums and looked at quite a few of the Cabinet projects, I have come to the conclusion that there might be a market for a cabinet that can be purchased as a DIY kit.

For example all parts pre drilled and cut to size.  All screws and fixings supplied except glue and elbow grease.

Does that sound like a viable idea or would the choice in PC montiors, TV's and Arcade monitors cause a problem with the placement of a universal montior shelf or mounting points?

The other concern I have would be the weight pushing the cost of delivery too high.

Regards

Nick.W

[Frobozz]

The market is there but freight would be terrible I'd think.  The biggest problem with arcade cabs is the sidewalls, which are usually large one-peice designs.  An alternative would be to go with a Gorf-style cab with 2-peice sidewalls.

Choice of monitor type causes problems as well.  TVs can easilly sit on a shelf, and horizontal-mount arcade / psudo-arcade monitors would also be fine.  But if you plan on angling the shelf back even a little, PC monitors, which generally sit on pod-like stands, like to tip over.  Universal or "front-mount" arcade and psudo-arcade monitors would also have a hard time, because of their mount type.  

Control panel mounting, speaker mounting and PC (guts) mounting may also pose certain problems.

Now, if you can find cheap shipping (remember, people all over the world may want these), I'd go for it if you've got the time on your hands.  I'd only sell blank cabinet "frames" though, without speaker mounts, coin-door hole, or control panel top, and possibly without even a monitor shelf.  Then provide detailed plans for various monitor mounts, dimensions of some industry standard coin doors, and a "how to build a control panel" primer.  

[Thenasty]

Buying a pre-built cabinet or DIY kit cabinets are good except that shipping is the killer. For the shipping and handling cost, you can use $$$ and go to your local cabinet maker and probably have some money left over...Just my 0.02c.

[Lilwolf]

Instead of that... you might ocnsider selling a kit.

the kit would be hard real paper plans that you lay over wood that you buy locally.  Then have cut out holes for drawing the plans themself.  so I take the 4x8 and tape down the plans on top of it.  Then mark all the points, then cut it.  Or maybe even drill through the holes themselfs with the paper there.

Then have a specific SVid monitor that fits with the model and brand (that you can buy at most major appliance places)... but it will probably work with others.  But mention it so people don't have to wander.

the hardware needed..  latches and screws and all that should be needed.  Then with the power box also.  

Also, any small boards used that are easy to ship, and a pain to cut.  Like if you have parts that aren't from the original 4x8.

Then the arcade parts (2 or 4 8ways and some buttons).  

then the ipac/hagstrom/mk

then maybe even burn everything assuming a specific video card onto a CD.  IE the emulators, frontend, config files, and no roms at all (because we don't do that)

IE, so they go out with a specific shopping list for the big things, *(wood, TV, basic computer) then they can go from there.

[pyrobrit]

Hi Lilwolf,

I like that idea, provide everything except the wood and a variety of monitor mount points for a range of popular viewscreens that could be used.

What could also be done is to provide the code on CD for the automated cutting / routing machine to slice and dice a flat MDF board into the parts required.  All you would have to do would be to screw, glue and wire it all up.

Regards

Nick.W

Instead of that... you might ocnsider selling a kit.

the kit would be hard real paper plans that you lay over wood that you buy locally.

the hardware needed..

[JustMichael]

Hi Lilwolf,

I like that idea, provide everything except the wood and a variety of monitor mount points for a range of popular viewscreens that could be used.

What could also be done is to provide the code on CD for the automated cutting / routing machine to slice and dice a flat MDF board into the parts required.  All you would have to do would be to screw, glue and wire it all up.

Regards

Nick.W

I do see one very big problem with this idea.  Most people don't have access to such a machine.

[Abelard Lindsay]

For example all parts pre drilled and cut to size.

[Howard_Casto]

Many people have tried this and many have failed.
I remember one such venture that someone advertised several months ago on this board.  

I pointed out to them that it would never work for various reasons including the ones mentioned above. They not only got very angry with me but informed me that they had already invested a great deal of money/equipment/time into the project without asking the community what they think.  Needless to say they weren't very successful as I've only heard tale of them selling one of their prototype cabs towards the initial startup.

This isn't a case of me saying I told you so to those guys, but of me trying to keep you from starting a  bad business.  

Here's some reason's why it wont' work......

#1 Cabs are too darn heavy to ship...

#2 No one is going to pay for cabinet plans unless they are the best darn plans in the world. They're are way too many free plans out thee already and the community is very open to sharing how they did things.

#3 This is build your own arcade controls not buy them...

I know what your thinking on that one so let me explain.  The general mame public doesn't really respect the original arcade feel and are perfectly happy to play pacman on their computer with their joystick.  We arcade control loving guys are a very small part of that market.  Also the few people that do buy pre built control panels aren't necessarily interested in a full cab for both monetary and space reasons.  So you take taht number and cut it down again.  When you get down to it there's just not enough people out there.   But just for arguments sake I'll go on.

#4 The public is very demanding. .... Your not going to get away with cutting out lumber in your garage and screwing it together unless your a master carpenter or have several 1000$ worth of tools to help you.  A simple plywood shell proabably wouldn't go, it would have to be laminate and /or a very good design at that.  Like this:  http://www.cybertechdesign.net/mameroom/ultimatearcadeII/day15.htm

#5 DIY means generic and the majority of us each want something different.... You'll notice that the cabs cyberpunk built were basically made to order.  It took him several months and alot of hard work just to produce those two cabs btw.  And from what I understand the buyer didn't want to fool with assembly. Which brings me back to what I said earlier, those who are too lazy to build/convert their own cab generally don't want to fool with assembly either.

#6 What would your kit have that makes it special?  It's the first rule of marketing.  Just because you build it doesn't mean they'll come.  Are you going to have special retainters/ bezels/ ect made for your kit?  If so are they going to be as good a quality as happs stuff?  Also if your kit merely consits of the cut out pieces, that is by far the easiest part of the cab.  If your design is simple enough 90% of the cuts can be done for free in the lumber yard.  Some even cut laminated panels now (although i'll admit that's rare)

Ok I'm done.... Once again I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just stating the obvious to help you make your decision.  Remember 75% of all small businesses fail in the first year.  With the current world events I think that ratio is even higher right now.  (But 75% is the given business rule of thumb)

Remember:
No project is a small project.
No business that produces a product has small start-up costs.
No un-tested market is without a great deal of risk.


My finance teacher would be so proud.  


 

[pyrobrit]

Howard,

That is an excellent reply!  BTW I am the poster who started this thread but finally registered properly.

I think you hit the nail on the head in several of your points for reasons against attempting a flat pack.

1. Weight

2. Personal builds

3. Damage in transit (this package would be large)

4. Why reinvent when good plans exist on the internet?

And all the others mentioned previously.

At the end of the day it was an idea I was bouncing around whilst driving to work.  As you say, this is a build your own web site and that is certainly what I shall be doing and presenting you all with a look into my finished cabinet one day in the next few months/years

My joysticks, buttons, ipac have all arrived so I need a control panel first to cut my teeth on.  Oscar is posting a spinner pro as I type this and I shall add the opti-pac interface next month.  I can't do it all on one pay packet!

The trackball will have to wait for a while as I want it for marble madness.

I'm looking forward to some real arcade quality gaming.

Thanks for all your comments.

Regards

Nick.W

[lusid]

I considered that same business idea when I was building my cabinet, but set it aside for all those same reasons.

But, having that kind of cabinet design made moving it from miami to LA pretty easy.  I just took the whole thing apart, packed the cabinet flat, boxed the rest of the parts up and shipped it with all my other stuff.   It survived the move it great shape, and all I had to do was put it back together.  That took about 1 or 2 hours, and I was playing again.

[RandyT]

This reply will have to be multi-part due to post length constraints on this board.

Many people have tried this and many have failed.
I remember one such venture that someone advertised several months ago on this board.

That would be me

I pointed out to them that it would never work for various reasons including the ones mentioned above. They not only got very angry with me but informed me that they had already invested a great deal of money/equipment/time into the project without asking the community what they think.  Needless to say they weren't very successful as I've only heard tale of them selling one of their prototype cabs towards the initial startup.

Howard, the only thing that ticked me off was the way your advice was administered, and that you compared the price of a ready to assemble unit to that of a sheet of raw material.  And keep in mind, that this group represents only a very small portion of the "community".  As far as the success of  the project goes, I take blame for that more than market considerations.  I went where the money is and I ended up using the machine to work on a contract for 500 (unrelated to arcade stuff) assemblies at $35 each.  How I came to the decision to use the machine for this purpose is a "no-brainer".  I do still plan to devote time to the Microcade project when this is done.

Here's some reason's why it wont' work......

#1 Cabs are too darn heavy to ship...

Not true.  A cabaret style cabinet can be shipped for around $70, depending on where the customer lives.  Remember, expensive to some is cheap to others.  Depends on your income level.

#2 No one is going to pay for cabinet plans unless they are the best darn plans in the world. They're are way too many free plans out thee already and the community is very open to sharing how they did things.

We agree on something again

#3 This is build your own arcade controls not buy them...

I know what your thinking on that one so let me explain.  The general mame public doesn't really respect the original arcade feel and are perfectly happy to play pacman on their computer with their joystick.  We arcade control loving guys are a very small part of that market.  Also the few people that do buy pre built control panels aren't necessarily interested in a full cab for both monetary and space reasons.  So you take taht number and cut it down again.  When you get down to it there's just not enough people out there.   But just for arguments sake I'll go on.

This is changing as more average "Joes" become exposed to the notion of having the real arcade experince in their own home.  The increased traffic to this site over the past year is proof of this.  Also, many of the folks buying pre-built control panels *do* end up building them into cabinets.  The controls can be a PITA and some folks just don't have the know-how/confidence to tackle it themselves.  As far as numbers go, there are over 2 billion people in the US, if I remember correctly.  I'd be happy to take half of a half of a half of a percent of that
(continued in next post)

[RandyT]

Reply Continued....

#4 The public is very demanding. .... Your not going to get away with cutting out lumber in your garage and screwing it together unless your a master carpenter or have several 1000$ worth of tools to help you.  A simple plywood shell proabably wouldn't go, it would have to be laminate and /or a very good design at that.  Like this:  http://www.cybertechdesign.net/mameroom/ultimatearcadeII/day15.htm

This is exactly why there is a market for a professionally designed DIY cabinet.  Most of the "demanding public" won't be happy with something they hack together themselves.  And, if it doesn't look good, their wives won't allow it in the house either .

#5 DIY means generic and the majority of us each want something different.... You'll notice that the cabs cyberpunk built were basically made to order.  It took him several months and alot of hard work just to produce those two cabs btw.  And from what I understand the buyer didn't want to fool with assembly. Which brings me back to what I said earlier, those who are too lazy to build/convert their own cab generally don't want to fool with assembly either.

There's no shame in using whatever personal talents you might have to start with a basic model of something and customize it to make it your own.  There are entire industries based on this concept.  How many people can build their own car?  How many people can buy add-ons, decals etc and apply them to make unique to them?  I imagine there is quite a difference in the numbers.  Also, bear in mind that in the early Arcade days, most of the cabinets from a particular game manufacturer were based on *1* design.  It was only the controls and graphical treatments that made them different.
 

#6 What would your kit have that makes it special?  It's the first rule of marketing.  Just because you build it doesn't mean they'll come.  Are you going to have special retainters/ bezels/ ect made for your kit?  If so are they going to be as good a quality as happs stuff?  Also if your kit merely consits of the cut out pieces, that is by far the easiest part of the cab.  If your design is simple enough 90% of the cuts can be done for free in the lumber yard.  Some even cut laminated panels now (although i'll admit that's rare)

I can guarantee that 90% of what went into my design *cannot* be done at the lumberyard.  And if a person's design can be, they certainly shouldn't be trying to sell their kits.  There are many ways to skin the proverbial cat, some better and/or more expensive than others.  That's why you can buy a $30 knockdown bookcase or a $230 knockdown bookcase.  It's all about what your own personal requirements are and what you can afford.

Ok I'm done.... Once again I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just stating the obvious to help you make your decision.  Remember 75% of all small businesses fail in the first year.  With the current world events I think that ratio is even higher right now.  (But 75% is the given business rule of thumb)

I'm not trying to be a jerk either , but some of the "obvious" things you are stating apply to only one portion of a larger market.  Hanaho, Oscar, and Andy Warne all seems to be doing pretty well with their endeavors.  There are other ways of doing what these folks have to offer as well, and I personally didn't need to buy anything from any of them to complete my project, but there are those that have/do and are happy they did.  One can't base an entire market on one's own perception of it.

Remember:
No project is a small project.
No business that produces a product has small start-up costs.
No un-tested market is without a great deal of risk.

Agreed, agreed and agreed.  However, one *can* minimize their risks by not "betting the farm" on an untested market.   If care is taken to make sure that your investment can be channeled to other markets if needed, you have little to lose.  A CNC machine doesn't care if it's making flower boxes or arcade cabinets.  And if you can at least make back your investment, which I have been able to do 3 fold, any projects you decide to take on after that has a minimal risk.

My finance teacher would be so proud.

Those that can, do.  Those that can't, teach  (sorry, I couldn't resist )


RandyT

[HanaHo Staff]

I would be on the lookout for HanaHo cabinets as we are currently working on a Do-it-yourself Cabinet that will work with our existing HotRods.  You will also have Trackball and 4 way joystick options available.  Professional Quality, User Friendly, Easy to assemble, Ship by UPS.  Well package...need I say more.  Launching soon!!!

Regards,

HanaHo Staff
www.hanaho.com

[phantompower]

I hope the price is not prohibitive.  I saw some pretty steep prices on the website earlier for the entire cabinet with PC.

For those of you that saw my website with the MameStation, that was the first thing I EVER built out of wood.  I would highly encourage any and all of you to build one on your own.

The cost of the wood is reasonable...Just my .02.

Chuck