Keyboard Hack

[WiZeR]

Hi

I have looked over this site.. But i'm still a bit confused.. is there an idiots guide to the Keyb Hack??

I got the software that helps you map the matrix.. but dont really understand how to work it out tbh.

Any help Appreicieated

Thanks

[jjanis]

Hey-lo...

I did a keyboard hack...  It was a pain in the buttocks, compared to how the I-Pac works...  I'm glad I did it, because now I know what it takes to get something like that working - a lot of TIME to piddle around determining a good keyboard configuration.

For me, looking at the pre-mapped out matrices for different keyboards didn't matter much, because my keyboard didn't fit any of the pre-mapped brands.  I didn't care much, anyway, I just wanted to have at it.

So I picked apart the keyboard, and started touching wires together on the circuitboard, and watched what keys appeared (look for the keyboard testing programs on this site for this) on the screen.

I wrote down all the different keys associated with the contact point on the keyboard card in a little chart: 1, 1 -> 'm'; 1,2->'n', (etc.)...  On my keyboard card, I had 8 different contact points in one part, and 16 contact points in another, which I'd suppose make it an 8*16 matrix?  I crossed out all of the keys that I wanted to not map my joystick to - keys that mame uses, keys that the Hot Rod uses (I wanted to use the HotRod together with my joystick, which doesn't work yet...  Hopefully my new I-Pac will fix that when it arrives).

So anyway, I basically ignored all of the mathematical logic stuff everyone talks about for figuring out the maximum number of keys I could have pressed at one time...  Too darned complicated.  I soldered something to the keyboard card to let me clip wires in and out of each contact, so that I could put jumpers between them, and use wires to 'hold down' many keys at once.  I tried combination after combination, until I had something like 11 keys that could all be held down at once with no ghosting, or any of that stuff.  I applied those to my primary buttons - 2 directions for each joystick, and 2 main buttons (* 2 players, that's 8 keys...  I used the extra keys elsewhere).

Then, for the remaining joystick inputs, I searched like a madman for opposite directions from the 2 that I chose, for ones that I could use any combination of the directions with the other joystick and buttons, until I found ones that worked OK...  (There were a lot of possible combos)...  For the coin/start buttons, I didn't worry about ghosting or anything, figuring that it would be rare to run into problems using these with the other buttons.

It was a pain in the butt, but not TOO TOO bad.  It was kind of fun, I was interested in saving a few bucks, and learning to solder a little bit.  When I do something, I want to learn the hard way why I would spend $50 on a silly I-Pac.

Anyway, it ended up working GREAT as a joystick (2 joys/4 play buttons apiece/2 coin buttons/2 start buttons).  The only reason I'm getting an I-Pac is because the HotRod doesn't pass the input through to the computer properly when all controllers are being accessed at once (2 players from my controller + 2 players from the HotRod).  I'm hoping the I-Pac will fix that, and I'm going to move my keyboard hack into another controller I'm working on.

My point is, I guess, that if a keyboard hack is REALLY what you want to do, then it can work great, but it takes a lot of thinking and a lot of solving little problems...  But heck, that's the whole fun of building an arcade controller, right?  And anybody with a little stick-to-it-iveness could probly do it.

The I-Pac, however, from what I've heard, WORKS...  Perfectly...  And easily...  But where's the pride in using the I-Pac?

[Lilwolf]

Dont bother with a keyboard hack.  To painful.  Some work, many don't.  The controller in a keyboard can change for the same keyboard version from one to another, so if you do figure it out, you can't alwasy duplicate it.

If your going to hack something consider a joystick hack instead.  Find something with enough buttons on it since it is expect to have all the buttons pressed at once.

but of course, the best solution is a true keyboard encoder.  Ipacs around $40 bucks and AMAZING!  (hotswappable buttons, configurable, all keys are treated indipendently, USB version, ect).

[WiZeR]

I aggree with you lilwolf the I-PAC does look amazing! but one problem with it... its not Free... and the keyboard hack is!

I want to do this in the cheapest way possible.  so the keyb hack is the best option for me.  Plus I want the knowledge behind me for the future

Since my first post I have trawled the net for as much info on it as possible.  I think I now kinda understand it.

Thanks jjanis.. your info certainly helps a lot!!

I'll keep you all posted!

[JustMichael]

I would only recommend a keyboard hack if you only want 1 joystick and a couple "fire" buttons.  If you want more than that (such as 2 joysticks and 6 buttons each), you will find the keyboard hack is not the cheapest way to go to get acceptable results.

[Mike]

The keyboard hack is not as cheap as it appears. You'll end up buying like $20 worth of stuff from radio shack to do it. And thats half the price of the ipac. I wouldn't bother doing it. If you can't afford $40 for the ipac I'd wait and save up the money. To do the keyboard hack you'll have to buy soldier for small electronics, twice as much wire as you'll need for an ipac since you can't daisy chain the grounds, and you'll probably have to buy terminal blocks. The keyboard hack is good for games like pacman and space invaders but is terrible on any games where 2 players play at the same time.

[jjanis]

My I-Pac came in the mail today (man that was fast, all the way from Europe!)...

Thought you might like to know...  Keyboard hack is the stepping stone drug to bigger and better methods.

[Thenasty]

Lot os us here probably started out with a keyboard hack (including myself) and at the end, converted to using the Ipac or other keyboard encoders.....If you wnat people opinion, take it from us and get the Ipac (cheaper than any encoders I know). But you like to be adventurous (like I did) try out the keybord hack first.

[Lilwolf]

Consider a joystick hack before  a keyboard hack.

They don't have the ghosting or matrix problems that keyboards do.

and you will throw away any keyboard hack you do after a bit if you really use it.  keyboard hacks just suck!

[Magnet_Eye]

Man, you're fooling yourself if you think a keyboard hack is cheaper/better than paying $40 for an I-Pac. A keyboard costs money...you might have an extra or got one free. ok. but TIME is MONEY. You can't go wrong for $40. If you want to hack the keyboard and play and learn go for it. but as far as a MAME machine goes, the I-Pac is best solution.

Good Luck!

[Searcher7]

I have a bunch of MS Sidewinder gamepads.

As for hacking, are these adequate for games like Gunsmoke(8-way joystick, 3-fire buttons,2-start buttons)?

How about Mario Bros. or Joust?(Both of which use two 2-way joysticks, 1(jump/flap) button, and 2-start buttons)?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7@mail.con2.com

[Tiger-Heli]

Keyboard hack how-to is here: http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html

Saint, could you add a link to this on the main page.  It gets asked a lot!!!  I wrote it, BTW.

Having said that, I agree with all the I-Pac comments.  A keyboard hack can work perfectly for 2 players and 6 buttons each (see the write-up), but it is not configurable (you are stuck with only a few keys available per button), is a lot of work, and if it ever breaks or you mess up the traces when soldering, you must redo the entire process.  An encoder is well worth the money for the convenience and utility they provide.

[WiZeR]

GAH!

You've convinced me.. !!

I-PAC it is!

Thanks guys

[Zipper]

You will not be dissapointed.
I'm a bit like yourself - building something like a MAME cab is half the fun, and the i-pac is taking all the fun out of building a control intercace.

But keyboard hacking is not fun  
Unless you're lucky, or do specific research on particular keyboards. You could end up throwing the whole lot in the bin.

Andy Warne is a great bloke too. Good support and amazingly cheap prices.

[Hrothgar The Great]

 Going with the I-PAC is a good idea; my controller now has one inside... However, my controller originally cost about $90-$100 to build, and that was WITHOUT the additional $45 cost of an I-PAC.  I used a gutted Gateway 2000 kb in the original model, and I've got to tell you, you guys saying it's expensive are dead wrong.  I spent exactly $0 on the keyboard and needed NO additional equipment to make it work correctly.  

 This is not to say that it was without its little problems.  I managed to set up the matrix for 26 inputs (2 4-way joysticks, 6 buttons each, 2 coins, 2 starts, and two extra function buttons for reset, pause, etc...) It worked decently, but I'm pretty sure I burned the kb controller a bit whilst soldering, since the letter 'F' started to appear at random from the damn thing after I'd used it for a few weeks.  This threw a monkey wrench into my whole matrix plan, but I eventually routed around the damage.  Still, it was really fun to do, believe it or not... I finally opted for the I-PAC route to get rid of those small annoying problems I was having (the random F's would cause my computer to beep while nothing was running - or select whichever file on my desktop that happened to start with F).  Anyway, you'll have made a wise decision - but missed out on all of the fun! (I'm not kidding).

[Trenchbroom]

I have a bunch of MS Sidewinder gamepads.

As for hacking, are these adequate for games like Gunsmoke(8-way joystick, 3-fire buttons,2-start buttons)?

How about Mario Bros. or Joust?(Both of which use two 2-way joysticks, 1(jump/flap) button, and 2-start buttons)?

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7@mail.con2.com

MS Sidewinders (gameport) work great, if you find them cheap enough.  I found them on the net $8 apiece.  Only needed 2 to finish out my 2 player 6-button per player cabinet.  No ghosting problems and everything works as it should.

So for someone w/ two spare gamepads and a little soldering experience I would highly recommend it.  If I had to do it over again I would by an I-PAC. Even at $8 apiece for the Sidewinders. Price is small, no soldering and, as testimony above indicates, it is too TOO easy to get it up and running w/o a hitch.  

[mw]

The keyboard hack will work!

I used the I-Pac because:

1) I didn't want to spend the time doing a hack.(Cheaper for me to buy I-Pac than hack keybrd)

2) I hadn't soldered in several years.

3) I-Pac is just plain easy and it works !

4) Wife wants to play Ms. Pacman when she gets home, not have me with wires strung everywhere trying to explain that it didn't work right.

I'd recommend the I-Pac and looked at all kinds of industrial decoders before choosing it. Haven't had a problem yet with 2-kids banging on it. Like I said you can do a keyboard hack and it will work for 2 players, but for the money and easy of use I'd recommend the I-pac.

I wish the I-pac was around back when I was hacking keyboards for Flight Sim.  

[Agent Davis]

IPAC is the greatest.  Keyboard hack is old skool and was done before the IPAC came along.  Now there is no point in hacking a keyboard.

[WiZeR]

Hi

Well since admiting defeat and deciding to go with the IPAC i have now changed my mind yet AGAIN!  It's BACK to the HACK!

The reason I decided to go for the IPAC originally was cost... I decided Mike was right in that i'd end up spending more because I didn't have a solder iron, T-blocks, etc.  

But since then I have managed to aquire everything I need for the hack for FREE! (my favourite price!) i.e.

Free Solder Iron (Thanx Rugs)
Free Solder (Thanx Rugs)
Free Keyboard (Got 3 Identical Keyboard from work that were spare)
Free Kynar Wire (Thanx again Rugs)
Free Terminal Blocks (Thanx Dan)

I still wanted to learn about the hack and I am only starting on a 1 player desktop control.

lol BUT I have run into a small problem.

I have mapped out my matrix, but have done it different to how it is done here http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html  (look at the bottom)

The way I have done it looks like this http://www.wize.demon.co.uk/mameproject.xls

I want it to look like the one on mameworld.  Whats gone wrong.. Can anyone tell me?

[kamakazi]

I am using a keyboard hack, using standard mame keys, for two sticks, 6 buttons each and 4 control buttons.

[WiZeR]

thanks kamakazi I will keep the diode idea in mind!  

But what I really need to work out at the moment is where I have gone wrong in making the Keyboard Matrix!  

Anyone?

[Tiger-Heli]

Hi Wizar,

First off, I think diodes only work with really old (pre-1985-ish) keyboards, but that's just my opinion.  Diodes are effective against ghosting (different keys showing up than the ones selected), but most modern keyboards prevent this in the IC through blocking (keys not showing up, even though selected).  Diodes won't help blocking.

I have gone through your matrix from Esc through Break (the first 33 keys) and posted the results at http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/museum/Temp/Wizer%20Matrix.xls.

Here's where you went wrong:  You have the keys down the rows of the matrix and the contacts checked off.  You want the rows on one side of the matrix and the columns on the top, with the key assignments in the middle (hopefully, the chart will make more sense).  Also, both Enter and Left are mapped to 2 and 12; both Ins and PgUp are mapped to 7 and 22; and other combinations shown in yellow, etc.  This cannot be correct.  Check your mappings again.

Also, when you first map out a matrix, you will not know whether Terminal 1 is a row or column, so it is easier to build the matrix one key at a time.  In laying out your matrix Terminals 2, 6, and 19 appear to be both rows and columns.  This may be inaccurate mapping or it may be able to be corrected once the entire keyboard is mapped out.  If it is correct mapping, it is the first time I have run into this, but then again, I've only mapped out three kb's.  If it ends up this way, I would prolly not use any keys on these rows, meaning you might want to use a different keyboard altogether.  Some are definitely better than others.

Hope this helps!

[WiZeR]

Thanks Tiger!

Ok after a staring at this till i went cross-eyed i think i made some head way.

I'm not sure what you meant in your last paragraph.  What I did when I ripped the KeyB apart is number the connectors 1-25.  1-4 and 22-25 were on the top sheet and 5-21 were on the bottom sheet.  That is reflected in my first chart between blue and red.  I realise I probly did this totaly the wrong way.. I hope you can understand wot I have done.

I realise that I had some wrong mappings in my matrix that i will fix later today.  But can you confirm that I am now on the right tracks??

I'm not sure but I think it sould look like this: http://www.wize.demon.co.uk/wizer2ndattempt.xls

??   ??

[Tiger-Heli]

What I did when I ripped the KeyB apart is number the connectors 1-25.

[WiZeR]

Thanx for all your help Tiger.. I now understand what i'm doing!

I'm only setting up a 1player table top control panel at the moment to get my head around the whole process.

Should I use a 4 Way Joystick or an 8 Way?  I mainly want to play Street Fighter 2.. but would like it as universal as possible.

Thanx again!  

[Tiger-Heli]

Should I use a 4 Way Joystick or an 8 Way?

[WiZeR]

Once again thanks Tiger and all who chipped in early in this thread.

I'm sure i'll have more questions to come!

I have big plans ahead!

[bob]

The best reference on keyboard hacking is on www.mameworld.net. look down the left hand side of the mains screen for emuadvise and find the keyboard hack tutorial there.

If you've got wire and time, you can hack a 2 joystick, 6 button per player control panel. Mine took me two hours of decoding and wiring. In gameplay, I found I had used both  the alt key and the enter key, so I had to change a couple wires around.

It plays perfectly, but most keyboard encoders only have 16 "columns", so 2 sticks with 6 buttons each is the max. (or 4 sticks and 3 buttons, or 1 stick with 14 buttons.)

bob