All Around Joystick for the Casual Gamer

[brophog]

I think I've searched through as many websites/posts/reviews as I can. The biggest problem I'm seeing is that there seems to be a margin of 'acceptability' for each player.

For instance, if I were to go to a billiards site inquiring about pool sticks, I'd get many answers for custom built $500 sticks. For me though, I'm not that good and likely never will be so a lesser stick that many of these people would 'never' use is much better for me.

Luckily joysticks have no where near the price descrepancy of billiard sticks, but as with all products, there are varying levels of acceptibility.  Without the luxury of trying out sticks, I guess I'm trying to guage the amount of 'perfection' in most posts.

For example, someone says that stick X is bad for fighters or stick Y is good for robotron. I'm seeing a lot of posts where I'm guessing stick X is good enough for Robotron, but would bother a player of extreme skill in that game.

For this cabinet, the type of players that will be on it will be almost all very casual players. Many may have never played anything in the arcade, some of which may never have played video games at all. In other words, it's mostly for family and that is clearly a factor in how it is made.

The games played will be as such: a lot of shooters, some NBA JAM, beat em ups, pure platformers and classic style single screen games. Fighting games will probably be only street fighter/mortal kombat style with little to no games following that era.

So I'm probably eliminating sticks that are a little quirky, like the j-stik. Seems like a great stick for those that adjust to it in thier style of games, but I worry a great deal if someone with little patience picks it up and that particular game is not well suited to the controller. It really needs to be a stick that anyone can pick up for any game and get minor level of enjoyment, even if the stick isn't going to be the perfect match for that game.

So, I think from looking at posts and the video reviews at retroblast that the super or competition is a good all around stick for this purpose. I question the competition with it's light spring and long throw, so I would almost have to put a heavier spring in it.

My question on the super is this: Are the diagonals hard to hit, or is the convenience of absolutely needing to know a corner exists for top level players that is annoying in this stick? In other words, if the diagonal is easy if you're taking a more casual approach rather than needing instant reaction and 100% perfection, then the Super seems a better choice. There is a difference between needing to throw a certain diagonal in a split second at a high level contest and not being able to hit the diagonal in a casual game.

On the other hand, if a dragon punch is next to impossible, then they aren't good enough. On a keyboard, the dragon punch is very difficult to do, so that is extremely unacceptable. If a dragon punch is much easier on the super, even if not perfect, then that's acceptable. I don't need a stick that is a match made for dragon punches as I need a stick that is merely capable of performing the move.

Opinions please.

[Timoe]

find a BYOACer with the handle "Ponyboy" on the Buy Sell Trade forum

Go get your supers from him for like $8 each.  Hes fast and you'll save money on the product and on shipping.  The Happ Super is great and if you could throw a dragon punch in the arcade you'll throw em all over the place with a super.

[AceTKK]

I second the vote for the Happ Super.  It's one of the best all-around sticks out there.  The only thing it doesn't do well is true 4-way mode; if you're interested in the old school 4 way games then I think it's worth it to add a dedicated stick.

[Kremmit]

Sounds like either one will probably keep your casual player friends happy.  The Supers feel more durable to me.

You clearly care enough about SFII to need to be able to do specific moves- If you care enough about playing well in the old-school games, then I'll second AceTKK's suggestion of a dedicated 4-way.  One more stick won't add much cost or take up much space, and you'll play better on some of the old games (Ms. Pacman, anyone?)  But if you don't expect to play those games except as an occasional lark, then stuff the 4-way.

[RayB]

Man, after reading that first post, I wanted to say this: Sir, here is your pie, and there is the sky!

 

[brophog]

I really only mentioned SF2 because it's popular enough everyone knows what I'm talking about.

I have little doubt the Super is a quality stick, although the 4-way comments are a little troubling. I'd rather not put in an additional stick simply for 4 way games.

Another stick that I'm looking at is the t-stick plus. It obviously satifies the 4-way requirement well. My question is how stiff is the diagonals on games that you want fluid motion or doing half circle motions in a game like SF2. Again, the question isn't so much if it's perfect, but if it's acceptable.

[JB]

I have little doubt the Super is a quality stick, although the 4-way comments are a little troubling. I'd rather not put in an additional stick simply for 4 way games.

Your target audience here won't know the diffrence.

Heck, most of them probably think PacMan started as an Atari or NES game anyways.
They won't even notice that they CAN hit diagonals, much less complain because they aren't doing as well as they will on an original arcade machine with the diamond restrictor.


Furthermore, adding an extra stick will make the control panel more confusing, and the goal here is accessability, not absolute precision.

[AceTKK]

I have both supers and comps (bought two of each, figured I'd use whatever I like best) and, to be honest, I can't really tell much of a difference in game play.  I grew up on Street Fighter / MK / Killer Instinct and I can tell you that either stick works fine for any of those games.  Your muscle memory will adapt and you won't have any problems with either choice.  That said, I'm using the Comps in my CP because the construction seems a little more robust (the lever-actuated switches in the Supers seem less sturdy). 

[Kremmit]

I have little doubt the Super is a quality stick, although the 4-way comments are a little troubling. I'd rather not put in an additional stick simply for 4 way games.

Another stick that I'm looking at is the t-stick plus. It obviously satifies the 4-way requirement well. My question is how stiff is the diagonals on games that you want fluid motion or doing half circle motions in a game like SF2. Again, the question isn't so much if it's perfect, but if it's acceptable.

If you don't want the extra stick, then don't do it.

If you were worried about the J-Stik's feeling weird, the T-Sticks feel even weirder. 

It sounds to me like you'll be happier with Supers or Comps.

[SOAPboy]

I have both supers and comps (bought two of each, figured I'd use whatever I like best) and, to be honest, I can't really tell much of a difference in game play.

[brophog]

If you were worried about the J-Stik's feeling weird, the T-Sticks feel even weirder.

[Level42]

Get a Suzo !!! (Or an Omnistick if you'd like to call it that way).

"A Suzo stick is a joy forever"

[seanp]

If you were worried about the J-Stik's feeling weird, the T-Sticks feel even weirder. 

Care to elaborate on that? I've never used either, just going by reviews and videos. It certainly appears that the j-stik looks stranger in motion, but I could be wrong.

Right now I'm starting to think that I just need to make a purchase of any one of these fine sticks and see how it fits me.

I have T-stick+ joys in my machine, just so I didn't have to get a separate 4-way.  It works perfectly for that, but the throw is short, the spring is stiff.  I've replaced the microswitch that came with it and that helps a lot, but it's not the best fighter stick out there.  The throw is so short that it's hard to get a good feel for where you are.

One option I'd look at is the 49-way sticks with Randy's interface board - only problem is it's a little more pricey to get started with.  But with that interface you can switch the interface board to 4-way, 8-way, etc modes... there's a ton of flexibility there.

All in all, the supers/comps are good cheap starter joys that will work for 90% of what you want to do.  It wouldn't hurt to buy one for $9 and see how it feels to you.

[Tiger-Heli]

I have the Prodigies on my panel, and like them, but for what you are describing, I think the Super would be your best match.  They have the longer throw that you are looking for and remember from the arcades.  The Prodigies are top-notch for 4-way and good for 8-way, but the short throw takes some getting used to.

For that matter, I remember getting frustrated with the original Pac Sticks in the arcade, so I think if the Super is not dead-on accurate, neither was the original.

[Stingray]

If I could only have one stick it would be an Omnistick prodigy. True 8 way, true 4 way, quick to switch above the panel. It's not perfect for everything, but it's acceptable for everything and pretty darn good most games.

-S

[brophog]

For those with the Super, do you ever have a problem not hitting down accurately? I'm specifically talking about side scrollers, like Mario or Contra, or a game where you may have to duck accurately that was programmed primarily for 4 way control, but is not necessarily a true 4 way in the form of Donkey Kong.

[Timoe]

I dont have any problems with my supers.  I even enjoy a game of donkey kong with them.

These differences are all minute.  You'll be fine with a super.


....at first, then you'll get hooked, then its all over.  You'll be spending $12 here, then $30 over there the next week.  Before you know it you'll have little boxes all over your garage full of joysticks you dont need.  Go ahead, jump in.

[88mph]

I dont have any problems with my supers.  I even enjoy a game of donkey kong with them.

These differences are all minute.  You'll be fine with a super.


....at first, then you'll get hooked, then its all over.  You'll be spending $12 here, then $30 over there the next week.  Before you know it you'll have little boxes all over your garage full of joysticks you dont need.  Go ahead, jump in.

Yep, you just described my garage to a tee!   

-88mph

[ahofle]

I dont have any problems with my supers.

[Kremmit]

If you were worried about the J-Stik's feeling weird, the T-Sticks feel even weirder. 

Care to elaborate on that? I've never used either, just going by reviews and videos. It certainly appears that the j-stik looks stranger in motion, but I could be wrong.

Right now I'm starting to think that I just need to make a purchase of any one of these fine sticks and see how it fits me.

The thing that makes the T-sticks feel weird is the short throw everybody is mentioning.  But you're new, and "short throw" may not mean anything to you.   Throw is the distance you can move the joystick from center.  The joysticks you would have used on (most) arcade games (in the US) from (about) the 70s up through the 90s had a significantly longer throw than the T-sticks.  T-sticks feel to me like they barely move at all.  The same goes for the Suzo/OmniStik/Prodigy sticks others have mentioned.  They're nice sticks, and a lot of folks swear by them- but they will feel different than what you and your guests probably remember.

[brophog]

The thing that makes this decision so difficult is also the biggest advantage: No one likely to use this really has any stick time at all. So I have no base of reference, but then again no one has to adjust to a certain stick either.

Any stick that is bought will have to be learned. Personally, I'm more inclined to go to a shorter throw as I tend to do things more with my fingers and wrists than I do with my arms. That's why I brought up the T-stiks and am looking at the prodigy and suzo's. That's also why I'm less inclined to just buy a Super, even if it does seem to be a great stick to get started with.

For those that use the shorter throws, whether it be a t-stik, j-stik, prodigy, or suzo: Are fighters or games requiring many stick adjustments rapidly a problem? I see some have said they are, but I'm wondering if those people are simply having a hard time adjusting from sticks with a longer throw. I'm more interested to see if anyone does like to use these sticks for that purpose.

[Level42]

In all honesty, I'm not a frequent fighter player. But the shorter the throw and travel, the less time needed for moving the stick into the different positions. That's why I like short throw. Just because you "remember" something from the past, doesn't make it a good thing. I remember my first Atari joysticks (yugh) and after that a Spectravideo Quickshot thing with a never-ending travel, and I still hate both

Of course, it still is all a matter of personal preference, but the Suzo's are great quality and will last forever....

My most recent Suzo is the "inductive", check out http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42066.0 about it.
No moving parts, no clicking microswitches, and whatever direction you throw it, you get the same "resistance". ( so no double resistance from 2 microswitches for diagonals). Wether you're a pro or a beginner, a very nice stick indeed, at a fraction of a P360's price....

[Jabba]

Back when I was researching my cabinet, I found there to be many varying opinions on joysticks. There seems to be two camps, those who love to play Classic type games, and those who like to play fighter type games.

After much research, I decided to go with the T-Stick

[brophog]

After finding a better closeup picture of each, it seems they have similiar switch mechanisms. I guess the big question is a matter of throw and feel.

I'd like to thank everyone for your assistance. I'm going to need to order one of each and set up a sample test board and play around with each one and find one that both myself and the family likes best.

[Kremmit]

Once you decide, you can probably sell off the extra sticks here and minimize your losses.

Have fun!

[Grasshopper]

I own a vast number of different joysticks and as others have said if you're serious about this hobby then you'll eventually want to buy different joysticks for different games.

But for a first joystick I'd recommend the Happ Supers for the following reasons: they work well enough with most games, they're cheap, well made, easy to get hold of, easy to install, and look pretty good.

If you're interested purely in responsive gameplay then I'd say the Suzo series 500s are the best joysticks out there. The downsides are that they look uglier than most joysticks, they're harder to fit to a control panel, slightly more expensive and harder to get hold of than the Supers, and for some people used to a long throw joystick they just don't feel 'authentic'.

The T-Stiks have a lot in common with the Suzo sticks. They have a stiff feel and a short throw. They have the best 4/8 way switching mechanism of any joystick IMHO, and they look nicer than the Suzo joysticks. In fact I think they are the nicest looking of all the bat handled joysticks. However, the Suzos feel smoother and they come with better, quieter microswitches.

Basically there is no right or wrong answer and my opinions have changed over time but FWIW I'll be using Suzos on my next panel.

[Todd H]

Best all around stick?  Perfect 360 hands down.  Of course, they can be a bit expensive.