Author Topic: my asteroids (Read 33066 times)

SirPoonga · « **on:** June 18, 2005, 01:50:50 pm »

Since I am on dialup I won't upload all my pics right now. Will have to wait until I get back to my apartment.

For those who don't know my uncle gave me his asteroids machine. The monitor isn't displaying but the game plays. It is being stored at my parents place. That's where I am this weekend.

Now I got to take a closer look. I think I know what is wrong. I thinka fuse on the monitor is shot. The fuse markings are :
3/3 3AG 5A 250V
It is definately blown.

So hopefully I just need to replace that and it is all working

Anyway, it is hacked into what looks like a megatouch gambling cabinet. The wiring manual inside says Cocktail Asteroids. Is this the cocktail version?

I hope so. I'd rather put it in a cocktial. I will have to research this some more.

The wiring is hacked. There's electrical tape all over the wiring. I did find were the test switch and volume control is located.

If this is the cocktail version I will put it in a cocktial cabinet, which means I could rewire

I'm uploading a few pics right now, uneditted, IE not rotated.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/
When I get to my apartment I will clean them up.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2005, 02:44:42 pm »

Have to remember to check this out when I get to my apartment...
http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/asteroidtech/asteroidsrepair.html

Als I have the WG 19V2000 Monitor, as KLOV puts it:
The Wells-Gardner 19V2000 black and white vector monitor is a direct plug-in replacement monitor for an Asteroids machine. The pinout is almost identical to Asteroids Deluxe.

I noticed a bag of parts in the bottom of the cabinet.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2005, 03:22:38 pm »

I uploaded the pcb and numbers on the pcb. See the finger board in the bottom left of the pcb, I wonder what that is for...

Paladin · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2005, 03:33:20 pm »

I believe the 'fingerboard' is for attaching a harness to a device that is used to test the PCB.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2005, 04:37:19 pm »

Well, I bought a fuse. It blew right away. Not a good sign. It probably is due to the fact the cabinet is not grounded correctly. Someone cut off the ground post on the wall plug. And I see a cut ground wire coming from the on/off switch, that one probably isn't a big deal but I will attack it to the grounding post on the power supply.

So I took the power cord off (it connects via a molex) and I will try and find a new plug for it.

ChadTower · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2005, 04:40:10 pm »

If it blew right away, a good amount of the time the problem is bad edge connectors/contacts. Retin the edge contacts and check for solid continuity in the harness. Bad connectivity causes inconsistent voltages, which can cause anything from a simple blown fuse to fried PCB components being run out of voltage range. This is hugely common in old Atari cabs. Also replace the big blue cap, don't even bother to test it, just get a new one. That's almost always gone or going.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2005, 05:06:38 pm »

you mean the big blue one on the power supply that the wiring diagram says is 26,000uf@15v. Ha. How do you properly dicharge that thing?
Could I just get a new power supply, even though I see it isn;t like my standard one in my dynamo cabinet.

ChadTower · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2005, 05:18:39 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on June 18, 2005, 05:06:38 pm

you mean the big blue one on the power supply that the wiring diagram says is 26,000uf@15v. Ha. How do you properly dicharge that thing?
Could I just get a new power supply, even though I see it isn;t like my standard one in my dynamo cabinet.

Don't replace the whole supply, that transformer is a tank. It will last a long time yet, it's the cap that dies after a while, as with any other capacitor. I don't think you have to discharge it when you remove it, though verify that with Paige or someone. By nature, when it's dead, it's because it won't hold a charge properly anymore. You can get a new one from Bob Roberts for like $12 before shipping. It is SO worth it, if you don't replace the one you have, even if it still works, it will die with regular use at this age and it will take something else with it, probably your game PCB.

2600 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2005, 05:28:57 pm »

In case it wasn't mentioned or you haven't found out, I believe I remember hearing that for Asteroids the difference between the cocktail and regular version was the wiring harness. I forget the specifics, but hopefully it will get you started in the right direction in case someone made it back into the standup version.

BTW, can anyone verify that?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2005, 06:15:39 pm »

2600. I read the upright and cocktail were seperate boards. I don't recall where I read that.
I took a pic of the wire schematics and uploaded one pic. See how player 1 and 2 are wired together except pin 6. Pin 6 goes to seperate grounds on the harness.

If I brought my multimeter I could do some testing.

Chad, if the cap was bad would the game still work? The game works, but the monitor fuse blows. I put a new power plug on. I fired it up. This time I saw the fuse blow

without my multimeter handy I don't know if there is anything I can do.

ChadTower · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2005, 07:42:22 pm »

The cap is like any capacitor, only bigger. It would slowly lose its ability to hold a charge, so yes, the game could work to a certain extent, but the worse that cap gets, the worse the quality of power coming into your PCB and monitor. It could be bad enough to cause problems on the PCB. If your monitor is blowing its fuse, definitely replace it. That is step #1, making sure you are getting clean and proper power on all lines (IIRC, and I probably don't, it's +12v, +5v, and maybe -5v, then whatever the monitor uses). Part of making sure that is the case is replacing that power filter capacitor.

Next you would test the PCB for proper voltage at its test leads. Those are the raised metal circles that are labeled with an output. There are definitely X, Y, and Z leads in the video section of the board, probably +5v and possibly +12v leads too. If those are all good, you know your board is working pretty well and you would test your edge contacts the same way. Once that is good, you would test the same things on the end of the video signal harness. Then you know you have good video signal. Check the voltages on the proper pins of the monitor end of the monitor power cable, and once you get that good, your monitor shouldn't blow a fuse. If it does, you have a problem on the monitor chassis, and you'll do a cap kit and start troubleshooting the chassis if that does not work.

Obviously, if you see anything amiss at any of these steps, you would correct it before moving on to the next one. If you're not sure how to do any of these things, we can work through them one at a time here.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2005, 12:54:01 am »

I will have to wait then until I can get my machine to my apartment where all my stuff is.

However, I am having trouble understanding the edge connector.

ChadTower · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2005, 11:33:04 am »

The edge connector, or the edge contacts? It's common for the edge connector to have more pins than there are edge contacts, since the edge connector is just a straight-thru wiring extension. It's not always specific to the exact amount of contacts on the edge of the board.

I don't remember if your PCB should have contacts on both sides of the PCB.

You have it right about testing the PCB test leads, one wire to ground and one to the contact. For X,Y,Z you should see something like fluctuation between 12v and -12v (don't remember the exact values, a search on RGVAM will tell you).

paigeoliver · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2005, 02:35:09 pm »

No need to try to discharge a big blue, just unscrew it and screw the new one in, you don't even have to solder anything.

ChadTower · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2005, 06:37:10 pm »

Quote from: paigeoliver on June 19, 2005, 02:35:09 pm

No need to try to discharge a big blue, just unscrew it and screw the new one in, you don't even have to solder anything.

You've turned over a lot more Atari cabs than I have, feel free to correct anything I've said here that is mistaken.

2600 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2005, 07:56:42 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on June 18, 2005, 06:15:39 pm

2600. I read the upright and cocktail were seperate boards. I don't recall where I read that.
I took a pic of the wire schematics and uploaded one pic. See how player 1 and 2 are wired together except pin 6. Pin 6 goes to seperate grounds on the harness.

If I brought my multimeter I could do some testing.

Maybe that's all the diffence is between cocktail and upright, i.e. Ground P2 pin 6 means cocktail, Floating P2 pin 6 means upright.

This isn't where I read it, but is the last place I read it.
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=33155&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

SirPoonga · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:29:59 am »

According to "cw" in chat, especially since I have "replaced" parts that consist of two transistors and two fuses, he thinks "[00:22] <cw_> im betting your chassis mounted transistors might had a bad one in the bunch".

SirPoonga · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:34:44 am »

oh yeah, and cocktail is just how it is wired, not a seperate board. Not sure where I read that, I didn't trust that info anyway.

I will be transfering this to a cocktail cabinet sometime though.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:41:53 am »

Well, there isn't much I can do until I can get the machine to my apartment. I think the first step will be check wiring, make sure everything is going where it is suppose to.
I'll wait until I get a acocktail cabinet befor eI rewire. The current wiring is a mess, alot of electrical tape.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2005, 06:25:25 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on June 19, 2005, 06:37:10 pm

Quote from: paigeoliver on June 19, 2005, 02:35:09 pm
No need to try to discharge a big blue, just unscrew it and screw the new one in, you don't even have to solder anything.

You've turned over a lot more Atari cabs than I have, feel free to correct anything I've said here that is mistaken.

I have never worked on a B&W Atari vector, but I have replaced big blues about a dozen times in raster games, color vectors, B&W games, and converted Atari cabs that still had them installed, and there isn't anything to discharge. I actually tend to save them, as they are weird, sometimes you'll get one that won't work in one game, but will work perfectly fine in another (at one point when I had several games that used the suckers I had one machine that would ONLY work with this brand new one I had, then there was a Kangaroo that would work with ANY of the half dozen I had laying around, while there was another one that worked with about half of them).

Unfortunately I don't know a whole lot more than that about repairing an Asteroids.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2005, 09:55:14 am »

BTW, how do these "tin can" transistors work? There's only two pin on them.

ChadTower · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:24:50 am »

Start here.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:43:02 am »

The fuse that is going out is the the F100.
http://slot-tech-ftp.serveftp.com:8080/technical_department/monitors/monitor%20schematic%20diagrams/wg_v2000.jpg

Hmmm, directly from the connector to the rectifier...
Oh, and I got the wrong fuse, I grabbed a fast blow fuse. So I should see what is coming from the connector then....

Whether that be the case or not I think I will get a cap/tansistor kit and a new big blue. To be on the safe side. And slo blo fuses... Bob carries all of that I believe.

ChadTower · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:46:43 am »

He does carry all of that, may as well save shipping and do it all. It's all worthy work, anyway, and just standard refurb stuff to make your machine reliable again.

Q*Bert_OP · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:50:46 am »

The cabinet looks like a Stargate cabinet.

ChadTower · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:56:30 am »

I hadn't looked at the pics, that's a pretty odd looking cab.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2005, 11:02:15 am »

To me it looks like all the gambling (megatouch) machine cabinets in that small town (where my uncle lives). Which is what I suspect happened. I should ask him how he got the cabinet. My bet is he wnated an asteroids, talked to someone local who had a working board, put it in the first available cabinet, tada. The red button on the bottom is coin.

Is it easy to replace the LED on the volcanos or do I need the whole switch? Is ther ea place to get just the LED?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #27 on:** June 20, 2005, 11:08:18 am »

Asteroids cocktail used a 13" monitor right, IE the cabinet listed here is the original?
http://www.arcadeshop.com/games.htm

Bah, I am going to turn mine into a cocktail. But not original. Will keep the 19" WG monitor

I could probably find a midway cabinet around here...

If I get this working I am going ot have to buy some of the "toys" for this game..
http://www.arcadeshop.com/asteroids-hss/asteroids-hss.htm

ChadTower · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2005, 11:11:28 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on June 20, 2005, 11:02:15 am

To me it looks like all the gambling (megatouch) machine cabinets in that small town (where my uncle lives).

SirPoonga · « **Reply #29 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:09:00 pm »

I have volcanos that was going to use when I make a cocktail emulator cabinet. I can replace it with one of those if needed...

Anyway, I found a pic of Big Blue on Bob's site. So do I have to take the psu casing off then? Or is it open underneith, I just need to unscrew it form the bottom of the cabinet to get at the nuts for big blue?

RayB · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:13:48 pm »

Unscrew the PS unit from the bottom, and then you'll see underneath it's all open. You'll have access to screws that hold the big blue in.

ChadTower · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:14:21 pm »

See that big blue clyinder at the bottom of the cabinet?

RayB · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:15:48 pm »

Chad, yer funny. He was talking about the big brass colored metal box that the big blue and other parts attach to.

ChadTower · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:18:47 pm »

Quote from: RayB on June 20, 2005, 12:15:48 pm

Chad, yer funny. He was talking about the big brass colored metal box that the big blue and other parts attach to.

I figured he was, but just in case he's not... taking apart unfamiliar things requires guesswork, and every now and then someone guesses incorrectly.

rchadd · « **Reply #34 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:20:08 pm »

Quote from: RayB on June 20, 2005, 12:15:48 pm

Chad, yer funny. He was talking about the big brass colored metal box that the big blue and other parts attach to.

the transformer

SirPoonga · « **Reply #35 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:22:19 pm »

Now for some odd questions.

Asteroids used leafs or micros, my guess is leafs.

Is there such thing as a cocktail table with a 19" horizontal layout and the players play across form each other? I've been thinking aobut this, it might be tough to find a cocktail asteroids and the 19" monitor...

Oh yeah, you guys realize I am just trying to figure things out before i get the machine here, so I have to guess at some things

SirPoonga · « **Reply #36 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:25:05 pm »

Quote from: rchadd on June 20, 2005, 12:20:08 pm

Quote from: RayB on June 20, 2005, 12:15:48 pm
Chad, yer funny. He was talking about the big brass colored metal box that the big blue and other parts attach to.

the transformer

No, the transformer is that big thing on the left side of the big brass colored box

I know what a transformer is (no, not the autobot kind), I have a toroid sitting next to my computer monitor that I need ot find a use for.

Ray had it right about what I was tlaking about

Q*Bert_OP · « **Reply #37 on:** June 20, 2005, 04:07:11 pm »

Asteroids uses leafs.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #38 on:** June 21, 2005, 06:50:31 am »

Asteroids is one of those games that is fairly non-directional. Really try it, those of you with rotatable monitors, rotate to vertical and play Asteroids, it is THE SAME.

Really you can, try it. Think about it, the game displays a ship which rotates in all directions, and Asteroids that rotate in all directions.

ChadTower · « **Reply #39 on:** June 21, 2005, 07:52:34 am »

Plus there would be no letter boxing, the the edges on all sides are flat black anyway.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #40 on:** June 21, 2005, 09:11:26 am »

The only thing you'd have to tilt your head for is score, I know. I though about that too.

cw · « **Reply #41 on:** June 21, 2005, 04:14:32 pm »

What about making a new mounting board for the monitor.... and turning it ... wonder if that would fit....

SirPoonga · « **Reply #42 on:** June 21, 2005, 04:30:40 pm »

Found the cabinet I will need. A Dender/Robotron type cabinet.
http://www.robotron-2084.co.uk/robotroncocktailownerslist.html

I wonder if someone put accurate measurements in for that one thread that was keeping track of measurements....

spriggy · « **Reply #43 on:** June 22, 2005, 06:46:26 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on June 21, 2005, 04:30:40 pm

Found the cabinet I will need.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #44 on:** June 23, 2005, 03:25:30 pm »

Does someone have a pic of how an arcade monitor is mounted in a cocktail? If so then I will probably just make my own. I have a full sheet of mdf at my parents...

cw · « **Reply #45 on:** June 23, 2005, 06:43:13 pm »

We have a Defender cocktail at the shop....Ill get you a pic in the next day or two of the monitor mount..

SirPoonga · « **Reply #46 on:** June 26, 2005, 10:56:48 am »

It's coming.....

Just got the call form my parents. They decided to bring my asteroids from their house to my apartment today. In about 3 hours I will have it here

ChadTower · « **Reply #47 on:** June 26, 2005, 11:51:39 am »

Awesome. I'll be very happy to see this back up and running. My AD has been sitting here for months untouched while I work on other stuff.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #48 on:** June 26, 2005, 07:28:36 pm »

The cool thing is my dad took the monitor out so it was lighter for transport.
So that will make it easier to work on

ChadTower · « **Reply #49 on:** June 26, 2005, 08:18:02 pm »

You hope... God forbid he damage the monitor any more than it may already be damaged.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #50 on:** June 27, 2005, 12:12:11 am »

I don't think you can really hurt this thing. It's made like a brick. Lots of reinforcement. From what I gather what's wrong with it is normal wear and tear for this monitor.

ChadTower · « **Reply #51 on:** June 27, 2005, 08:45:06 am »

There are some extremely fragile points in any monitor.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #52 on:** June 27, 2005, 09:57:01 am »

I was going to take the monitor out anyway, it's a very tight space to work in. I don't think my dad would be rough with it. He even wrapped it in a couple of army blankets during transport.

RayB · « **Reply #53 on:** June 27, 2005, 11:10:17 am »

The neck...

ChadTower · « **Reply #54 on:** June 27, 2005, 11:22:40 am »

As well as a couple hundred 20+ year old solder joints. Don't be surprised if some of them have gone cold after being moved.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #55 on:** June 27, 2005, 03:57:21 pm »

Well, it had to be moved, it's not like it was unavoidable. You guys make it sound like I am being careless with it. It was easier and safer to take it out. Actually, why it is out I might keep it out and just try and find a cocktail cabinet right away.

I probably would have taken the monitor out to work on it anyway. That is a small cabinet. My emulation cabinet is roughly based on my dynamo dimensions. This cabinet is dwarfed by that one. Width and height. I could barely get my hands in the side if I needed to get at the transistors that need replacing.

It's much easier to shock proof the monitor for transportation than the entire cabinet with monitor in it. The monitor sat in the van on several layers of blankets and wrapped in blankets. The cabient had to go on a trailer as it didn't fit in the van. I told dad nothing could happen to the monitor since those were hard to find, so he took it out and wrapped it up well. It was in the van which has a much smoother ride than the trailer. Oh yeah, mainboard was taken out too as that's just in a simple plastic holder.

Here's a pic of it in my second bedroom, which is the computer room for my apartment.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/?action=view&current=room1.jpg

I'm not going to be suprised with anything that is wrong with this, but it's not going to be because of what I did...unless I solder something wrong.

I've been getting price quotes from bob, will probably make an order after my next paycheck.

BTW, now that I have the monitor here I answered one of my previous questions.
'BTW, how do these "tin can" transistors work? There's only two pin on them.'. I see how it works now, the case is one of the "pins" after it is put in the socket. I'm sure the rebuild kit will say but since it is socketed do they just pull out?

ChadTower · « **Reply #56 on:** June 27, 2005, 04:15:34 pm »

We didn't say you were going to cause it intentionally... slow down a bit. These are issues whenever anyone moves any cab anywhere. We're trying to warn you about things that can happen. Having to reflow the solder on a monitor after you've moved it is not an unusual thing for anyone. We're not taking shots at you or your father.

You would not want to bother trying to solder anything while it's still in the cabinet. You'd take the chassis out and work on it someplace else. Only an op with a vested interest in speed would work on a chassis in place.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #57 on:** June 27, 2005, 06:28:30 pm »

That's cool. I guess I read too much into it

Anyway. I will prder next week maybe.
I wish bob took paypal, I got a whole bunch of rebate back... BTW, I love tigerdirect's online rebate through onrebate.com. Having them come to paypal is nice.

ChadTower · « **Reply #58 on:** June 28, 2005, 09:02:18 am »

I've seen probably a hundred, and there are many more, who say that Tiger Rebate is a scam that hardly ever sends out the rebates...

...anyway, after your first paid order, Bob will cross ship and expect you to send payment the same way. Speed is no longer an issue at that point.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #59 on:** June 28, 2005, 09:37:36 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on June 28, 2005, 09:02:18 am

I've seen probably a hundred, and there are many more, who say that Tiger Rebate is a scam that hardly ever sends out the rebates...

Heh. And I have received all my tigerdirect rebates. You just need to follow them exactly.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #60 on:** July 01, 2005, 12:43:08 pm »

Quote from: cw on June 23, 2005, 06:43:13 pm

We have a Defender cocktail at the shop....Ill get you a pic in the next day or two of the monitor mount..

Got that pic?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #61 on:** July 13, 2005, 11:03:54 am »

Bob said I should probably get my parts thursday. So you know what my weekend project will be

I was talking to a local tech, he use to work for the local vending company many years ago. He hasn't worked on one of these in many many years. I told him that fuse is blowing and he came up with a bunch of reasons why it might. I told him I got the rebuild kit. He said that might fix it, especially since those parts have been replaced before. But there are other things that could be wrong to make the fuse blow.

I guess we will see.

ChadTower · « **Reply #62 on:** July 13, 2005, 11:10:47 am »

I still suspect the problem could be bad molex pins.

Havok · « **Reply #63 on:** July 13, 2005, 02:16:09 pm »

I would check all that electrical tape and get rid of it. Pull them out one at a time and make sure there aren't any crossed wires, then use a butt connector, crimp it and use shrink tubing to repair. Even if that doesn't fix the problem, you really should do it anyways for future reliability.

Also, look for broken or shorted solder joints on the PCB...

SirPoonga · « **Reply #64 on:** July 13, 2005, 04:31:31 pm »

Actually yeah. Now that I have it at my apartment I should pull out my multimeter and test if the right power is going to the monitor.

I will rewire the whole thing. Like I said, I might put it in a cocktail cabinet. I'm going to wait until I decide on that. If I do put it in a cocktail cabinet it will require rewiring

SirPoonga · « **Reply #65 on:** July 14, 2005, 10:02:28 am »

Just reminding myself of a link, been using this thread as a bookmark of asteroids links.
http://www.arcadedocs.com/vidmanuals/A/asteroids_2b.pdf

SirPoonga · « **Reply #66 on:** July 15, 2005, 08:17:54 pm »

Got my rebuild kit.

Big blue is now going to become big black!

ChadTower · « **Reply #67 on:** July 15, 2005, 09:29:28 pm »

Awesome. Swap out that old filter cap, don't even test it. Just take the old one and chuck it in the trash. Once that is in place, test the power supply outputs under load. It shouldn't be hard to find on the net what the proper values should be. The testing will probably be best done on the AR board, not necessarily the power supply itself, though test the inputs to the AR board as well. If you get acceptable voltages out of the AR under load, you're good to look at the PCB and test from the test points there (+5v, +12v, X, Y, and Z outputs I think). If the AR doesn't check out, order an AR rebuild kit and do that. An AR rebuild kit literally is a 15 minute job.

I'm half in the bag, honestly, but IIRC X and Y should fluctuate between +12v to -12v and Z has a smaller range of like 0v to +5v. I'm pretty sure on the X and Y but not as certain on the upper limit of the Z... I need another beer.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #68 on:** July 15, 2005, 09:40:44 pm »

yeah, I will deal with that in abit.

I looked at the case transistors on the v2000. It appears they have that heat transfer stuff on them that you use for PC CPUs??? If so I gotta get some of that

ChadTower · « **Reply #69 on:** July 15, 2005, 10:08:25 pm »

What do you mean by v2000?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #70 on:** July 15, 2005, 10:30:44 pm »

ok people, riddle me this.
First grab the v2000 manual
http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/asteroidtech/asteroidsrepair.html or
These two pages:
http://westnet.com/~chris/arcade/19V2000/page19.html
http://westnet.com/~chris/arcade/19V2000/page21.html

The fuse that is blowing is F100. You see that is between pin 7 of the connector and the diode rectifier. Page 21 tells me that needs to be AC 30V RMS (along with pin 10 of course).

So I look at the atari wiring specs which you can see here
http://photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/?action=view&current=harnesswiring.jpg

Look at P22 Pins 7 and 10 goto 11 and 13 from the video power supply. That says 65V!!

Huh?
Page 1 of the v2000 manual does say "I/P POWER @60V AC"
I haven't measured AC in awhile. Do I put my multimeter to pin 7 and 10 or 7 and ground (pin 11)?

v2000 = Wells Gardner 19v2000. Every doc I find seems to refer to it like that.

Edit, my bad
INPUT VOLTAGE ........ 30-0-30 VAC RMS center

It's been awhile since I worked with AC. Still need to know which pins to test and what value to expect.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #71 on:** July 15, 2005, 11:13:32 pm »

So, figured out how to test with help form chat people

So, the 5amp fuse blows, which means it is drawing too much current. But the right voltage is going to that. Does this mean the parts are failing? Hence the rebuild kit?

I have to go through and test all of the pins on the connector. I tested continuity on of of them and that passed.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #72 on:** July 15, 2005, 11:35:09 pm »

Have you guys ever seen a blown slo-blo? I looked at it compared to a good one. The wire coil looks like it boils, it's bubbled up in a couple of spots. It's kinda cool

SirPoonga · « **Reply #73 on:** July 16, 2005, 02:36:09 pm »

Do I need to discharge anything? (Including Big Blue?)
Yep, I need to discharge the monitor, what about big blue, I want to make sure on that. It's a 28,000uf 25V capacitor. That's not going to feal good. And how if I need to?

Ok, I saw this:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,14906.0.html
Read this:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,38152.0.html

Do I need the have the all the chassis wires plugged in to where ever they go (tansistors, yoke, etc) or can I take that out and still be able to disharge the HV circuit?

I might just call a local TV repair company and have them dicharge and deal with the 4 capacitors that go on the HV circuit. The rest I should be able to deal with.

RayB · « **Reply #74 on:** July 16, 2005, 02:56:12 pm »

You're talking to yourself again Poonga

SirPoonga · « **Reply #75 on:** July 16, 2005, 03:28:45 pm »

For your enjoyment
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/parts.jpg

SirPoonga · « **Reply #76 on:** July 17, 2005, 01:47:33 pm »

Emailed Bob Roberts. Don't need to dicharge big blue. The circuit does that one minute after you turn it off according too Bob.

So, come monday I will call a local TV repair place and see if they will discharge the monitor. (And maybe put hte 4 caps on the HV circuit for me too)

SirPeale · « **Reply #77 on:** July 17, 2005, 02:11:25 pm »

Now that I've been working with these things for a while, I can say with some confidence now: don't bother with the repair shop! You can do the job yourself.

I know discharging an XY is different from a raster, but the details are posted on the 'net.

Then just replace your caps. You *do* have a soldering iron, yes?

SuperGunGuru · « **Reply #78 on:** July 17, 2005, 06:53:41 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 16, 2005, 03:28:45 pm

For your enjoyment
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/parts.jpg

Heh I see you got a pen from Bob Roberts also. He sent one with my last order. I think of it as my official pen for any tech work I do. It's like a lucky pen

RayB · « **Reply #79 on:** July 17, 2005, 08:54:26 pm »

Lagniappe!

SuperGunGuru · « **Reply #80 on:** July 17, 2005, 10:03:42 pm »

Quote from: RayB on July 17, 2005, 08:54:26 pm

Lagniappe!

Yeppers. The past 2 years I've gotten a cup filled with beads and candy around Mardi Gras time. I even got a small clock from him once. It sat on top of my Donkey Kong machine but it fell when I moved the machine and forgot about the clock.

ChadTower · « **Reply #81 on:** July 18, 2005, 08:58:25 am »

You should head over to the Vector List, they will be able to answer any question you could throw at them about this machine in more detail than anyone here.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #82 on:** July 18, 2005, 01:40:03 pm »

Quote from: Peale on July 17, 2005, 02:11:25 pm

Now that I've been working with these things for a while, I can say with some confidence now: don't bother with the repair shop! You can do the job yourself.

I know discharging an XY is different from a raster, but the details are posted on the 'net.

Then just replace your caps. You *do* have a soldering iron, yes?

I wouldn't mind doing it myself if there was someone else here just incase something does go wrong. But since I just moved here I don't really know anyone here

ChadTower · « **Reply #83 on:** July 18, 2005, 01:43:53 pm »

Hold the phone up while you do it... tell the other person that if you don't answer after 20 seconds to call 911.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #84 on:** July 18, 2005, 03:06:51 pm »

Well, I just thought of something. I am going to talk to this dude. He use to work for my company as a tech. He also use to work as an arcade tech for a local vendor. He currently runs a bar. I talked to him a little bit before, he owns some pretty cool originals like Donkey Kong and every Golden Tee Golf. When I talked to him he said he hasn't worked much with vectors. But I bet he know how to discharge a monitor... I'll talk to him sometime soon and see

ChadTower · « **Reply #85 on:** July 18, 2005, 03:18:27 pm »

Not sure how many people have to tell you it's not that hard... just do it. Be a man. At least be a boy and get an HV probe to do it.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #86 on:** July 19, 2005, 09:50:59 am »

It's not that I am afraid to do it. I just don't want to do it with no one else around

Anyway, is this guy on the vectorlist blowing smoke?

"you dont need to discharge monitors unless your clumsy or stupid, i have not
dischaged a tube in over 20 years - just watch your fingers!"

"first, you dont need to discharge the tube.
people only discharge the tube to make themselves feel safer handling it."

I mean, EVERYONE else I have chatted to says I need to.

ChadTower · « **Reply #87 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:01:28 am »

On Randy Fromm's monitor repair videos he mentions that he rarely discharges tubes too.

What I've taken from guys like this, is that with 20 years of hands on experience, you will know exactly what to touch and what not to touch. You can do the work without discharging the monitor because you don't even need to remove the chassis.

If you're going to remove the chassis, you need to remove the anode cap, and thus you need to discharge. You simply should not touch that anode cap without discharging and you (nor I) are not going to be working on a monitor with the chassis still attached.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #88 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:11:24 am »

I think I need verification on monitor parts.

With most items chassis usually means frame. obviously not in this case. Until now I assumed that meant the circuit board. Am I right?
Because you can take that circuit board out without touching anything but plastic. All the plugs are plastic. I've done it already because I wanted a better look at the transistor sockets. Which leads me to ask do I need to have that circuit plugged in to discharge the monitor?

fredster · « **Reply #89 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:18:44 am »

If you remove the chassis, you should discharge a freaking monitor.

There is also the filter cap on the raster monitors to discharge. (The big one).

It takes like a second to discharge it and all the fear.

But technically, no, you don't need to if you aren't messing with the HV system.

ChadTower · « **Reply #90 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:20:12 am »

I was confused on that initially too.

What would normally be called a chassis, in this case, is the monitor frame.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #91 on:** July 19, 2005, 11:18:27 am »

yeah, I'm going ot be discharging. But I want to know if I need this circuit still plugged in. It currently is completely unplugged. There are 4 connectors on it. 1 for two of the transistors, 1 for the other two, (look at linked pics) that big red one that goes to the HV circuit, and that one hangin between the tube and circuit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/chassis.jpg
Look at this pic, it's on the right
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitorback.jpg

SirPoonga · « **Reply #92 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:21:42 am »

Well, I've been turned off of the vectorlist. They give me conflicting info and bicker amongst themselves. Does not sound reliable at all. Now I am all confused and don't know what to do next

ChadTower · « **Reply #93 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:52:14 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 20, 2005, 01:21:42 am

Well, I've been turned off of the vectorlist.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #94 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:06:12 am »

I am going to discharge, but they aren't answering my other questions. They are bickering over if I should dicharge or not. I already told them twice that I decided I am going to discharge.

With what has been said I need to know, do I need to change the caps on the HV circuit? They seem to have hinted to the fact I don't have to do anything with the HV circuit at all.
I still haven't received an answer to if I discharge do I need that other PCB connected?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #95 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:11:35 am »

Well, I think I am going to do the logical cover all bases thing. I will keep the circuit on there and discharge and replace everything that came in the kit.

Now to buy expensive radioshack resistors....

ChadTower · « **Reply #96 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:18:39 am »

Yep, if it came with the kit, use it. Trust Bob Roberts, he knows his stuff. Besides, it's a cap, they're probably half dead if they have any life left at all.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #97 on:** July 21, 2005, 03:02:52 pm »

I am trying to find button placement specs for asteroids, both upright and cocktail. The current buttons are just not right and do not feel comfortable.

SuperGunGuru · « **Reply #98 on:** July 22, 2005, 02:58:44 am »

I just scanned the newest posts so bear with me if you already know this. When you discharge a vector tube, the process is supposed to be different. There's an diode that goes the HV board and the anode that could be damaged if you discharge the tube straight to the metal frame of the monitor. I was replacing my HV diode so didn't worry about damaging it when I discharged my tube. From what I understand, you are supposed to put some resistors in the line with the tool you discharge with so the charge bleeds off slowly. Anyway, just wanted to through that in. Hope I didn't add to the confusion.

ChadTower · « **Reply #99 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:39:27 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 21, 2005, 03:02:52 pm

I am trying to find button placement specs for asteroids, both upright and cocktail.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #100 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:36:01 am »

The spacing on my cabinet doesn't seem like the right spacing. Especially hyperspace.

ChadTower · « **Reply #101 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:43:11 am »

Hyperspace is kind of off down by itself, away from the other buttons in a pain the ass place to reach, yes?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #102 on:** July 22, 2005, 12:26:45 pm »

Right, but when I compare my control panel to picture of an overlay it looks like my locations are off and spread out a little more. How wide is the overlay? I have the vector ai file for one, just need to know how wide it is then I can do an accurate layout.

ChadTower · « **Reply #103 on:** July 22, 2005, 12:31:33 pm »

I don't have exact figures for Asteroids, as I have Space Duel and AD, but not Asteroids.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #104 on:** July 25, 2005, 01:23:52 am »

I don't remember who sent me Atari's "The BOOK"
http://pdf.textfiles.com/technical/atari_thebook.pdf

Go to page 83 (Chapter 3, 3-13) and look at Figure 8.
I have the very first problem, F100 and F101 on my WG 19V2000 blow. Now, do all X-Y monitors for Atari use the same designation for F100, F101, DB100, C100, and C101?
Well, the rectifier is easier, there is only one in the 25V area of the boards. Which is what I think the problem is.
Back up a page, how do I test the transistors, even though I already replaced them? Since the fuses are blown there would be no power because the fuse is the first thing the AC goes through. So I really cant test those.
Are the capacitors the book is talking about the big suckers which are labelled C100 and C101 on the 19V2000?

Correction, asteroids and WG 19V2000 use 30V (not 15V like the book), (34V I think once converted to DC. So do the same things still apply? It should...

First and foremost I need to know if I need R100 and R101. I posted a message on vectorlist, no response yet

Yo will see in my photobucket gallery R100 and R101 are jumped, same with the pic on bob roberts monitor ID page.

The 19V2000 manual says "R100 and R101 are used to limit the rush current to the filters."
That seems like a GOOD thing to me. Maybe I need to get those resistors? This is why I haven't done the cap kit yet. Might as well find out ALL the parts I need first.

And if that's what is wrong with it (the c100/101 cap, db100 rectifier, transistors) that means I don't have to open the HV circuit cage and I don't have to discharge the monitor

SirPoonga · « **Reply #105 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:43:42 pm »

I think I am going to buy some resistors for R100 and R101. It can't hurt anything to have them there.
I believe my deflector board rectifier is bad and now I have to figure out what to replace it with.

ChadTower · « **Reply #106 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:44:44 pm »

What type of rectifier is it? Is it the old 4 diode job?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #107 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:54:14 pm »

Also, how do I test the voltage for the transistors. One pin on transistor case, other on frame? I see I need the insulators for the transistors. searching old posts in vectorlist those can crack. Where can I get replacement insulators if needed? I wonder if Radioshack would have any as I know they have tin can transostors.

Chad, DB100
http://westnet.com/~chris/arcade/19V2000/page19.html

ChadTower · « **Reply #108 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:09:45 pm »

Yep, 4 diode rectifier. Go to the Fromm site I directed you to, that will explain them in great detail. It will also contain all the info you need on testing transistors.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #109 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:33:45 pm »

I know what a rectifier is. My question is WHAT rectifier do i need. I looked up the part number from the wg manual and I cna;t find it anywhere on the net.

BTW, that fromm site is timing out on me.

Again, I can't test voltage from the case (which i believe is the collector, right?) to ground if hte fuse is blown.

ChadTower · « **Reply #110 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:39:14 pm »

That's because the rectifier probably isn't one replaceable part, it's a section of the PCB made up of several components, most notably those 4 diodes in a diamond pattern.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #111 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:41:21 pm »

nope, one part, see my editted last post too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/chassis.jpg

Either way, I still can't find the specs of the diodes i'd need.

ChadTower · « **Reply #112 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:55:16 pm »

Yep, sure looks like that top center part is db100. Didn't know they came as one integrated part on this monitor. If you look at the schematic you linked to you can see the 4 diode diamond pattern I have been describing.

I'll see what I can dig up.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #113 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:00:01 pm »

Quote

Yep, sure looks like that top center part is db100. Didn't know they came as one integrated part on this monitor. If you look at the schematic you linked to you can see the 4 diode diamond pattern I have been describing.

Yep, I know a rectifier is 4 diodes. It turns AC into DC by making the AC current flow one way.
Yeah, I've been digging, can't find what it is suppose to be. When I get home tonight I am going to take the heat sink off and see if there are markings. Otherwise I will pick up something that can handle upto 50V to make sure the diodes work???

Bob Robert's website is down too so I can't search his inventory of diodes and rectifiers.

Actually, if you look at the back of the board it has the diamond pattern.

I tested the rectifier while on board, though someone told me I needed to test it offboard.
I tried both continuity and diode tester on my multimeter. Right, if a diode is working the continuity tester will only work one way, IE if you switch the probes around one way will detect a circuit and the other way won't since diode is one direction control?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/deflector_board_back.jpg

Doing the two tests all the diodes except the top one read .3 on the diode tester and continuity tester only worked one way. The top diode continuity worked both ways AND diode tester was 0 for each way. I would say I have a bad rectifier.

ChadTower · « **Reply #114 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:08:14 pm »

http://www.vectorlist.org/Vectorlist/2001/04/0066.html

This would seem to say that one of those four diodes is shorted, and everything else I have read says that they can be tested individually, so there has to be a way.

ChadTower · « **Reply #115 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:10:18 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 25, 2005, 04:00:01 pm

Doing the two tests all the diodes except the top one read .3 on the diode tester and continuity tester only worked one way.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #116 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:15:09 pm »

"G05-802, this sounds like a bad/shorted diode on one of the four bridge
rectifier diodes, or a piece of metal shorting the monitor mother board to
the chassis, OR a transistor that is NOT insulated from the metal chassis.
They all need an insulator and should show a relatively high resistance to
the metal chassis. "

Right, I have read that.
Hence my question on insulators.My insulators "looked" ok, but the holes the base and emitter went through were rather large. Also, what keeps the screws from contacting the side of the case?There wasn't a rubber washer on the screw so it is touching the transistor case, what is keeping it from touching the monitor chassis when it goes through the hole in the monitor? I'll take pics when I get home.

That thread doesn't explain them, he's wondering if he needs to do something with them.
The manual explains what they are for.
http://westnet.com/~chris/arcade/19V2000/page06.html
to me that sounds like it would be a good thing to have. They are only a $1 from Bob Roberts if I remember.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #117 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:17:07 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on July 25, 2005, 04:08:14 pm

I see multiple references in RGVAC and Vectorlist that people use as a replacement for the rectifier a 8A 200V unit, and I've seen mention that the actual part was 3A 120V but the high failure rate makes replacing it with a higher capacity rectifier a worthy mod.

Are you sure you aren;t talking about the HV rectifier? The deflector board only getsneeds to keep 34V from backtracking, while the HV circuit protects 90V

Quote

The junction drop (resistance) on a diode is 0.7, not 0.3, so I'd say you are correct. All four diodes are suspect, one certainly dead and three just about to die. Replace all four.

Well, yeah, since it is all one unit all 4 get replaced

ChadTower · « **Reply #118 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:18:21 pm »

Oh, yeah, I'd leave them in as well.

ChadTower · « **Reply #119 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:19:21 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 25, 2005, 04:17:07 pm

Are you sure you aren;t talking about the HV rectifier?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #120 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:22:45 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on July 25, 2005, 04:19:21 pm

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 25, 2005, 04:17:07 pm
Are you sure you aren;t talking about the HV rectifier? The deflector board only getsneeds to keep 34V from backtracking, while the HV circuit protects 90V

Could be, obviously double check everything I suggest.

I just did. Looked at the schematic on page 19 and 20 for the manual. Only rectifier I see is that one. Are people alling it the HV rectifier because power from ther eeventually goes to the HV circuit to get changed into 90V. Actually, the 38V from the rectifier goes directly to the HV circuit. Hmmm. Maybe that IS the HV rectifier.

Which would make sense on why the fuses blow if what you said is correct "8A 200V unit, and I've seen mention that the actual part was 3A 120V". It would fail because more than 3A would come back and blow the diode, cause a feedback through the rectifier matrix, then blow the fuse after going back through the failed bridge.

ChadTower · « **Reply #121 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:51:14 pm »

Actually, the rectifier doesn't control how much current goes through it, it just rectifies it from AC to DC.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #122 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:00:52 pm »

I read through the B&W vector monitor faq more thoroughly. (Before I only read about the discharging part, not troubleshooting).

"R100 and R101 serve to limit inrush current to the filters and offer some protection to
DB100 in case of a fault condition"
Sounds like a GOOD idea

Page 34:
DB100 | 8A 200V SI Bridge Rectifier | Diode bridge (NTE5313)

Woohoo!

And I tested everything according to how that FAQ says to test. So it's the rectifier causing the problem. Now only if Bob Robert's site wasn't timing out...

Quote

Actually, the rectifier doesn't control how much current goes through it, it just rectifies it from AC to DC.

Right, but the values of a diode indicate at which point it will fail to limit the direction of flow.

Quote

I could be wrong, but I don't think upgrading the rectifier would cause the fuse to blow.

Right, I didn't say that

I say if the current exceeded 3A the diodes in the rectifier could go bad, hence causing the problem.

I am 100% convinced it is the rectifier.
Though the guides say test for a short on C100 and C101. Does that mean put a continuity tester to them and see if there is continuity? Because something had to cause the rectifier to fail...

ChadTower · « **Reply #123 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:05:47 pm »

I would replace the rectifier and see what happens. It could be as simple as age.

Where is the FAQ you're reading?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #124 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:12:45 pm »

www.ionpool.net/arcade/tech/bw_vector_monitor_faq.pdf
from the asteroids repair encyclopedia

Well, since I bought the cap kit I will replace al least what is on the deflector board.
I also have the transistors. Now, I realized I used CPU heat sink compound for the transistors. Not any CPU heat sink compound, but the good stuff with silver in it. That might be conductive, I will test. If so that wouldn't be a good thing for this application. Might have to go buy the cheap stuff.

Check out appendix B. Man, most of my questions are answered if I READ the whole thing. i feel like a newbie now

ChadTower · « **Reply #125 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:22:38 pm »

Hey, often, if you work out a problem to solution yourself, you learn a hell of a lot more than you would have if someone handed it to you. That's what we are doing right now.

It would be a nice little lesson if you shorted something out with conductive heat sink compound.

I've learned a few of those type of lessons myself.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #126 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:26:30 pm »

well, I have to determine if I used a conductive heat sink compound. Silver is conductive, right? So it probably is. I should probably stop at Milwaukee PC and pickup the cheap stuff. Crap, EAA is going on and Milwaukee PC is next to the airport. Might have to find an interesting route to get to it as I know many of the major intersections in that area are blocked...

SirPoonga · « **Reply #127 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:54:25 pm »

Damn it, have to order the rectifier from someplace. Radioshack has a 6A 200V rectifier

ChadTower · « **Reply #128 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:58:10 pm »

Dude, don't even bother with RadioShack. They suck and their parts are crap now too.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #129 on:** July 25, 2005, 06:02:39 pm »

I beg to differ.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/Ruby/

That is made out of 100% radioshack parts and sounds awesome. Of course, I don't know how long it will last.

anyway, if they had the right rectifier I would hav eused it just to see if the rectifier would solve the problem.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #130 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:12:32 pm »

I ordered replacement resistors for R100 and R101. Bob Roberts said he's heard of people taking them off (IE not replacing them) but probably better if they were there.
Also getting the rectifier of course and more fuses as I only have 3 left. If for some reason this doesn't work I won't have enough fuses

SirPoonga · « **Reply #131 on:** August 01, 2005, 09:05:50 pm »

Well, good news and bad news.

Good news: I have picture
Bad news: it grows, expands, jitters.

Disclaimer, my camera wanted to use flash, so there's a small time lapse on the pics as I disabled the flash.

I hooked up my monitor and turned te system on, this is what I got at first.
No rocks, just ship and bullets during attract mode.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/1st_on.jpg

So I turned off and flipped the test switch.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/1st_on_test.jpg

I let is warm up for about 5 minutes, came back, turned it off and turned off test
See how the picture expanded, not e how the scores are going off screen. The time between these two pics was aobut 3 minutes. The shapes are jittering very slightly hence why they seem out of focus.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand2.jpg

So I flipped to test mode again.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand1_test.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand2_test.jpg

Yep, expanding.
Try again in regular mode.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand4.jpg

ChadTower · « **Reply #132 on:** August 02, 2005, 08:03:48 am »

Just read this on the Vectorlist... sounds like they have you covered for next steps.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #133 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:01:12 am »

Yeah, but now I HAVE to discharge

ChadTower · « **Reply #134 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:02:52 am »

You're going to play directly in the HV cage, what do you expect?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #135 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:16:27 am »

I am going to ask here before I ask the vectorlist

6. Inspect the lead dress of the transformer H.V. wire. Wire must be dressed.

What does that mean?

ChadTower · « **Reply #136 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:23:15 am »

Erm, not sure. That goo bit was a new one for me too.

I wonder if they're messing with you. That would be lame.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #137 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:37:04 am »

Well, what I am going to do is probably buy myself a good long screwdriver, do the bob roberts thing of gring a flatspot on it and a hole through it to secure a wire to it. Goto radioshack and pick up two packs of 100ohm resistors and some perfboard and my my discharger.

For now I can't afford the diode until a paycheck or two have gone by

But I will check out the diode and see if it has "goo" or not. But then what substance is the dressing that step 6 is talking about...

SirPoonga · « **Reply #138 on:** August 03, 2005, 09:14:26 am »

Bob Roberts emailed me. Dressing means make sure it is covered, like with shrink wrap. He didn't say anything about grease or goo and he did say he's done a couple of these before, so I think if there is goo from a leaking a diode to just clean it up.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #139 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:36:31 pm »

Still haven't got the diode. Might wait 1 or 2 more paychecks. Gotta go to a friend's wedding in another state though...

On a good note my emulation cabinet will be up and going again. A friend gave me a 1.4Ghz tbird with ecs mobo. Unfortunately the computer doesn't run stable at 1.4Ghz, dang cheap mobos. So it's underclocked to 1Ghz.

ChadTower · « **Reply #140 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:59:52 pm »

Dude, how much IS this diode?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #141 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:29:40 pm »

$10-$15 before shipping.

ChadTower · « **Reply #142 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:33:11 pm »

Bah, just buy it and bring your own lunch to work for a week.

Dude, diode.

Diode, dude.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #143 on:** August 16, 2005, 04:07:18 pm »

Heh, but I already do that!

It's the fact that I have to go to a wedding this weekend in MN, so there's those expenses. My car decided to crack the radiator, that ain't cheap. And the bachelor party for the wedding was a couple of weeks ago.

However, this last weekend I did spend $5 to play texas holdem with some friends and ended up winning $20. So I will see how much I have after this weekend

ChadTower · « **Reply #144 on:** August 17, 2005, 09:49:41 am »

Heh, that's some expenses. Cracked radiator, several hundred, and a good bachelor party will run you a couple hundred at least.

That is, unless you're that guy that tries to get out of paying the upfront cost and then never tips any of the girls. I hate that guy. I'm the guy who tries to convince everyone to throw that guy out.

RayB · « **Reply #145 on:** August 17, 2005, 11:23:02 am »

You should be able to replace a radiator for around $200-$300.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #146 on:** August 31, 2005, 11:04:39 pm »

I hope Bob is doing alright.

However, I am ready to get the diode, and since Bob isn't contactable right now do you guys know anywhere else to get a H1809. Well, somepalce other than www.arcadechips.com. They have them but have a minimum order of $15. There's nothing else from them I'd need.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #147 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:11:53 pm »

"Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic."
Yes I want to reply to this

Ok, so it's been awhile since I looked at this. Things came up and I forgot all about it for awhile. I finally got around to discharging the monitor. I replaced the diode. My cousin helped me, he fixes equipment for a hospital so he has more experience in electronics than I do. He's discharged several monitors there.

Anyway, the socket for the diode was horrible. Corroded, full of sticky crap, burn marks, bad condition. My cousin suggested we just solder the diode to the wires directly. We did, went to plug it in, electrical arc between the diode and cage. Didn't think that the socket was also an insulator. So now I have to find something that makes a good insulator.

Goo thing is the arc went to the cage (ground) instead of to componants on the circuit. So I think everything should be alright.

grantspain · « **Reply #148 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:25:17 pm »

hope you have not fried your new diode

SirPoonga · « **Reply #149 on:** April 04, 2006, 06:03:44 pm »

There's no reason it would be fried. It's a diode. Instead of the electricity going to the tube it went directly to ground. Plus i think the closest point to the cage is on the transformer side of the diode, therefore electricity would not have gone through the diode.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #150 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:00:28 pm »

New problem which I can't find an explaination for.
In test mode. In the middle of the screen is a couple of lines, ranging in order form light grey to bright white.

More details. The red led stays on mostly. When it comes on the speaker does a high chirp. Sometimes a a yellow tube light comes on and a low frequence sound is emitted. Also the grid will flash on and off once and awhile.

One more thing, switched it back to asteroids and just the enemy ship and it's firing shows up on the attract screen.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #151 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:26:04 am »

I read through trying to catch up on what ou have already done.
So forgive me if you've "already been there".

The red LED is also refered to as the "spot killer", indicates a missing or low voltage signal. It is designed to shut the monitor down when this condition occurs.
Check ALL your voltages coming from the AR board to the deflection board and their connections.

Did your cap kit include ALL the caps for the EHT unit? ( HV unit )
Might be part of your "blooming" problem.

If you are no longer blowing fuses, then that's a good sign.
(I've had a nightmare unit before)

Have you cleaned and re-seated ALL the socketed chips on the main PCB?
Careful not to break legs off, which they are known for. (brittle)

These older game PCB's can be tested and repaired using just your multimeter.
But it is a long and pretty tedious job. More later if needed.

When the monitor does actually display a picture:
If you are TOTALLY missing ships, sounds, fired shots, or any other graphic it is usually on the main PCB.
If it is just kinda screwy looking, then it's probably still in the monitor.
(possibly signal to the monitor also)

But you need to check and verify all your voltages first for sure.....everything going to the game PCB, monitor deflection board and the EHT unit.

What manuals do you have so far on your particular monitor and such?
(just so I can catch up a bit)

SirPoonga · « **Reply #152 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:36:33 am »

Quick summary of things that have happened. Got my asteroids, no video. Did the cap kit and new transistors. Got video but bloomed. Just changed the diode. Got all my kits and parts form Bob Roberts.

The symptoms are different each time I turn the monitor on. Now it shows up fine but the picture flickers in and out, and not the normal flicker, I mean it can go out for 1 second or more at a time. But everything shows up.

I have almost every manual on asteroids, 19v2000, and the B&W monitor FAQ. I've been readin the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia website (which seems to be down now but you can view cached pages on google).

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #153 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:47:43 am »

Have you tweeked on the XY pots on the main PCB to see if they are stable?
One at a time of course.....
Just to see if they adjust on screen accordingly and aren't too flaky themselves.
Age and corrosion can be a pain on these things.

And of course I have to reiterate checking the voltages.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #154 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:49:28 am »

Oh...... and watch the "spot killer" LED as the monitor is flickering and see if there is a relationship between the two.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #155 on:** June 12, 2006, 01:43:41 am »

I need to know what voltages I am checking. I am not failiar with the acronyms,. EHT? AR?

I haven't tweaked anything. Just cap kit and diode. I wouldn't know what to look for if I started turning pots.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #156 on:** June 12, 2006, 09:07:29 am »

EHT = the High Voltage unit ...... with the flyback and such, same unit you put the new diode in.
AR = Audio Regulator board, the smaller PCB with the large heatsink

I say "tweeking" really just to notice ANY change at all, to see if the pot is functioning, and also to see if that cucuit is funtioning (X, Y, etc)from the main PCB.
Just do it in slight moderation, enough to see if it is a "stable" function. (not all super jittery and sensitive, etc)

I'll have to get the manual out to pinpoint some voltages.
But basically any voltages leading to the deflection board and the EHT unit.

But you did re-insulate that HV diode and still get the "static" effect when the monitor turns on right?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #157 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:22:40 am »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 12, 2006, 09:07:29 am

AR = Audio Regulator board, the smaller PCB with the large heatsink

Whould would be this board 9since it says audio on it? some of those wires are going directly to the monitor? What does video have to do with audio?
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/?action=view&current=videoboard.jpg

Quote

But you did re-insulate that HV diode and still get the "static" effect when the monitor turns on right?

i'll have to watch the red led again. however, when the low noise is produces the yellow light comes on. It the light to the left of the large CAP at the top right of this pic. It's the top light of the two next to it.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/?action=view&current=chassis.jpg

I forgot to mention, when I did the cap kit I also changed the tin can transistors and the bridge rectifier (which was the real problem). I also added in the two large ceramic resistors (R100 and R101) that are missing in that picture but are in the schematic.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #158 on:** June 12, 2006, 11:20:32 am »

Yes....that is the A(slash)R board that I'mtalking about.
It acts not only as an regulated audioamplifier but also as a regulated power source.
Two jobs..... one PCB.

The yellow light (small neon lamp) indidcates a voltage spike. It is there to "clamp" or shut-down the spike back to the voltage it should be. But if there is a problem like in your case the voltage will just continue to go up and down.

If you look at your pic showing the "missing" resistors R100 and R101 you can tell on the far right post where there is a nub left from the old resistor. The resistor leads were soldered down through those posts. (if you didn't already guess)
There was a field mod put out about removing these and replacing them with jumper wires. You need to look on the bottom of your deflection PCB and see if this was done. IF so, then your new resistors aren't actually doing anything.

This is a very good read about these Vector monitors. It explains alot of technical jargun...... but also explains some of the simpler questions which really helps.
(if you haven't already come across it)
Couldn't get the .pdf link to work, so I gave it to ya this way.

http://tinyurl.com/fyo7f

At least skim down through the basics and it may clear up a few things.
Like the "spot killer" and such.
Then we can move ontodetails and hopefully get ya up and running.

Another quick spot to look at.
It has some Midway Space Invader stuff in there too, but just look at what pertains to Atari.
http://www.elektronforge.com/tech_help.htm

SirPoonga · « **Reply #159 on:** June 12, 2006, 02:47:21 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 12, 2006, 11:20:32 am

If you look at your pic showing the "missing" resistors R100 and R101 you can tell on the far right post where there is a nub left from the old resistor. The resistor leads were soldered down through those posts. (if you didn't already guess)
There was a field mod put out about removing these and replacing them with jumper wires. You need to look on the bottom of your deflection PCB and see if this was done. IF so, then your new resistors aren't actually doing anything.

yeah, I took the jumpers off

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #160 on:** June 12, 2006, 04:43:51 pm »

Cool.... just so you see why that was done that way at some point.
It's all in that Vector Monitor FAQ Guide as well.
(cutting the resistors out that is)

Keep us posted.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #161 on:** June 12, 2006, 05:28:28 pm »

Hmmm, wonder if I should take those resistors back out then...
I put them in because I saw them in the schematic and the spots ont he board. The jumpers were poorly soldered so it was an obvious conversion. I figured it wa sa quick hack to save money or something. I saw the resistors when right to the bridge which was bad. I figured the resistors protect the bridge and that is why the bridge failed.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #162 on:** June 12, 2006, 07:52:47 pm »

The bridge rectifier was a common failure all it's own. (good find though)

I have always left the large resistors in. The modification was just because the fact that they would burn up due to certain voltage failures, so in essence they were just ruined for no reason. The monitor will function properly with or without them as long as "everything else" is OK. (if removed put the jumper back in) You might think about removing them just until everything else is working properly, then put them back in. (just to keep from burning them up while working on it)
Just a suggestion.

Have ya had a chance to really read through the FAQ Guide?
Loads of info.... and being familiar with whats in there will make it easier to refer back to it.

You should make a "map" of all the pinouts going to the monitor and the EHT unit.
Mark what the voltages SHOULD be and then also mark what you get when you read it with the meter.
Gonna have to get good and stable voltages from the X and Y signals from the PCB along with everything else.
Pretty much everything leading to and from the monitor.

If for any reason you see a bright white dot in the center of the tube....TURN IT OFF

SirPoonga · « **Reply #163 on:** June 14, 2006, 05:29:21 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 12, 2006, 12:26:04 am

Check ALL your voltages coming from the AR board to the deflection board and their connections.

If I am reading my WG 19V2000 manual right the voltages coming through the plug are
pin 7 - AC 30V RMS
pin 8 - Center tap of 30-0-30
pin 10 - AC 30V RMS
pin 11 - main power supply ground
pin 12 Filament 6.6VAC RMS

How do I test AC? Put my multimeter in AC mode of course. But do I test the 30V pins against the center tap or ground?

I will have to read through the thread again because I think I remember asking this question before.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #164 on:** June 14, 2006, 08:53:10 pm »

AC -
Have one meter lead on the pin you are testing.......
And the other meter lead on one of the lines that power the monitor.
If you get a dead zero reading, check with the other line that powers the monitor.

Make sure your meter is not only set to AC (like you said) but make sure it is set high enough to accept a higher voltage than what you are testing for.
(unless you have one of them fancier meters that is all automatic like)

SirPoonga · « **Reply #165 on:** June 15, 2006, 01:48:10 am »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 14, 2006, 08:53:10 pm

Have one meter lead on the pin you are testing.......
And the other meter lead on one of the lines that power the monitor.
If you get a dead zero reading, check with the other line that powers the monitor.

But the pin I am testing is the line that powers the monitor?

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #166 on:** June 15, 2006, 09:07:06 am »

Duh . . . I was thinking about regular monitors for a second there with a 100-120v power cord going to them.....

Use the center tap pin for your "ground" meter lead. You should be able to use that pin for all your AC tests. (pin 8 )

The 90v test at the EHT is what I'm curious about. It's all in the manual I believe.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #167 on:** June 15, 2006, 10:35:19 am »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 15, 2006, 09:07:06 am

The 90v test at the EHT is what I'm curious about. It's all in the manual I believe.

Yeah, I'm guessing it is something with that since
1) the neon light comes on
2) everything displayed fine but was blooming before I changed the diode.


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