Author Topic: my asteroids (Read 33069 times)

SirPoonga · « **Reply #120 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:22:45 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on July 25, 2005, 04:19:21 pm

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 25, 2005, 04:17:07 pm
Are you sure you aren;t talking about the HV rectifier? The deflector board only getsneeds to keep 34V from backtracking, while the HV circuit protects 90V

Could be, obviously double check everything I suggest.

I just did. Looked at the schematic on page 19 and 20 for the manual. Only rectifier I see is that one. Are people alling it the HV rectifier because power from ther eeventually goes to the HV circuit to get changed into 90V. Actually, the 38V from the rectifier goes directly to the HV circuit. Hmmm. Maybe that IS the HV rectifier.

Which would make sense on why the fuses blow if what you said is correct "8A 200V unit, and I've seen mention that the actual part was 3A 120V". It would fail because more than 3A would come back and blow the diode, cause a feedback through the rectifier matrix, then blow the fuse after going back through the failed bridge.

ChadTower · « **Reply #121 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:51:14 pm »

Actually, the rectifier doesn't control how much current goes through it, it just rectifies it from AC to DC.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #122 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:00:52 pm »

I read through the B&W vector monitor faq more thoroughly. (Before I only read about the discharging part, not troubleshooting).

"R100 and R101 serve to limit inrush current to the filters and offer some protection to
DB100 in case of a fault condition"
Sounds like a GOOD idea

Page 34:
DB100 | 8A 200V SI Bridge Rectifier | Diode bridge (NTE5313)

Woohoo!

And I tested everything according to how that FAQ says to test. So it's the rectifier causing the problem. Now only if Bob Robert's site wasn't timing out...

Quote

Actually, the rectifier doesn't control how much current goes through it, it just rectifies it from AC to DC.

Right, but the values of a diode indicate at which point it will fail to limit the direction of flow.

Quote

I could be wrong, but I don't think upgrading the rectifier would cause the fuse to blow.

Right, I didn't say that

I say if the current exceeded 3A the diodes in the rectifier could go bad, hence causing the problem.

I am 100% convinced it is the rectifier.
Though the guides say test for a short on C100 and C101. Does that mean put a continuity tester to them and see if there is continuity? Because something had to cause the rectifier to fail...

ChadTower · « **Reply #123 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:05:47 pm »

I would replace the rectifier and see what happens. It could be as simple as age.

Where is the FAQ you're reading?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #124 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:12:45 pm »

www.ionpool.net/arcade/tech/bw_vector_monitor_faq.pdf
from the asteroids repair encyclopedia

Well, since I bought the cap kit I will replace al least what is on the deflector board.
I also have the transistors. Now, I realized I used CPU heat sink compound for the transistors. Not any CPU heat sink compound, but the good stuff with silver in it. That might be conductive, I will test. If so that wouldn't be a good thing for this application. Might have to go buy the cheap stuff.

Check out appendix B. Man, most of my questions are answered if I READ the whole thing. i feel like a newbie now

ChadTower · « **Reply #125 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:22:38 pm »

Hey, often, if you work out a problem to solution yourself, you learn a hell of a lot more than you would have if someone handed it to you. That's what we are doing right now.

It would be a nice little lesson if you shorted something out with conductive heat sink compound.

I've learned a few of those type of lessons myself.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #126 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:26:30 pm »

well, I have to determine if I used a conductive heat sink compound. Silver is conductive, right? So it probably is. I should probably stop at Milwaukee PC and pickup the cheap stuff. Crap, EAA is going on and Milwaukee PC is next to the airport. Might have to find an interesting route to get to it as I know many of the major intersections in that area are blocked...

SirPoonga · « **Reply #127 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:54:25 pm »

Damn it, have to order the rectifier from someplace. Radioshack has a 6A 200V rectifier

ChadTower · « **Reply #128 on:** July 25, 2005, 05:58:10 pm »

Dude, don't even bother with RadioShack. They suck and their parts are crap now too.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #129 on:** July 25, 2005, 06:02:39 pm »

I beg to differ.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/Ruby/

That is made out of 100% radioshack parts and sounds awesome. Of course, I don't know how long it will last.

anyway, if they had the right rectifier I would hav eused it just to see if the rectifier would solve the problem.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #130 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:12:32 pm »

I ordered replacement resistors for R100 and R101. Bob Roberts said he's heard of people taking them off (IE not replacing them) but probably better if they were there.
Also getting the rectifier of course and more fuses as I only have 3 left. If for some reason this doesn't work I won't have enough fuses

SirPoonga · « **Reply #131 on:** August 01, 2005, 09:05:50 pm »

Well, good news and bad news.

Good news: I have picture
Bad news: it grows, expands, jitters.

Disclaimer, my camera wanted to use flash, so there's a small time lapse on the pics as I disabled the flash.

I hooked up my monitor and turned te system on, this is what I got at first.
No rocks, just ship and bullets during attract mode.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/1st_on.jpg

So I turned off and flipped the test switch.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/1st_on_test.jpg

I let is warm up for about 5 minutes, came back, turned it off and turned off test
See how the picture expanded, not e how the scores are going off screen. The time between these two pics was aobut 3 minutes. The shapes are jittering very slightly hence why they seem out of focus.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand2.jpg

So I flipped to test mode again.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand1_test.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand2_test.jpg

Yep, expanding.
Try again in regular mode.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitor/expand4.jpg

ChadTower · « **Reply #132 on:** August 02, 2005, 08:03:48 am »

Just read this on the Vectorlist... sounds like they have you covered for next steps.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #133 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:01:12 am »

Yeah, but now I HAVE to discharge

ChadTower · « **Reply #134 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:02:52 am »

You're going to play directly in the HV cage, what do you expect?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #135 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:16:27 am »

I am going to ask here before I ask the vectorlist

6. Inspect the lead dress of the transformer H.V. wire. Wire must be dressed.

What does that mean?

ChadTower · « **Reply #136 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:23:15 am »

Erm, not sure. That goo bit was a new one for me too.

I wonder if they're messing with you. That would be lame.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #137 on:** August 02, 2005, 10:37:04 am »

Well, what I am going to do is probably buy myself a good long screwdriver, do the bob roberts thing of gring a flatspot on it and a hole through it to secure a wire to it. Goto radioshack and pick up two packs of 100ohm resistors and some perfboard and my my discharger.

For now I can't afford the diode until a paycheck or two have gone by

But I will check out the diode and see if it has "goo" or not. But then what substance is the dressing that step 6 is talking about...

SirPoonga · « **Reply #138 on:** August 03, 2005, 09:14:26 am »

Bob Roberts emailed me. Dressing means make sure it is covered, like with shrink wrap. He didn't say anything about grease or goo and he did say he's done a couple of these before, so I think if there is goo from a leaking a diode to just clean it up.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #139 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:36:31 pm »

Still haven't got the diode. Might wait 1 or 2 more paychecks. Gotta go to a friend's wedding in another state though...

On a good note my emulation cabinet will be up and going again. A friend gave me a 1.4Ghz tbird with ecs mobo. Unfortunately the computer doesn't run stable at 1.4Ghz, dang cheap mobos. So it's underclocked to 1Ghz.

ChadTower · « **Reply #140 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:59:52 pm »

Dude, how much IS this diode?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #141 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:29:40 pm »

$10-$15 before shipping.

ChadTower · « **Reply #142 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:33:11 pm »

Bah, just buy it and bring your own lunch to work for a week.

Dude, diode.

Diode, dude.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #143 on:** August 16, 2005, 04:07:18 pm »

Heh, but I already do that!

It's the fact that I have to go to a wedding this weekend in MN, so there's those expenses. My car decided to crack the radiator, that ain't cheap. And the bachelor party for the wedding was a couple of weeks ago.

However, this last weekend I did spend $5 to play texas holdem with some friends and ended up winning $20. So I will see how much I have after this weekend

ChadTower · « **Reply #144 on:** August 17, 2005, 09:49:41 am »

Heh, that's some expenses. Cracked radiator, several hundred, and a good bachelor party will run you a couple hundred at least.

That is, unless you're that guy that tries to get out of paying the upfront cost and then never tips any of the girls. I hate that guy. I'm the guy who tries to convince everyone to throw that guy out.

RayB · « **Reply #145 on:** August 17, 2005, 11:23:02 am »

You should be able to replace a radiator for around $200-$300.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #146 on:** August 31, 2005, 11:04:39 pm »

I hope Bob is doing alright.

However, I am ready to get the diode, and since Bob isn't contactable right now do you guys know anywhere else to get a H1809. Well, somepalce other than www.arcadechips.com. They have them but have a minimum order of $15. There's nothing else from them I'd need.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #147 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:11:53 pm »

"Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic."
Yes I want to reply to this

Ok, so it's been awhile since I looked at this. Things came up and I forgot all about it for awhile. I finally got around to discharging the monitor. I replaced the diode. My cousin helped me, he fixes equipment for a hospital so he has more experience in electronics than I do. He's discharged several monitors there.

Anyway, the socket for the diode was horrible. Corroded, full of sticky crap, burn marks, bad condition. My cousin suggested we just solder the diode to the wires directly. We did, went to plug it in, electrical arc between the diode and cage. Didn't think that the socket was also an insulator. So now I have to find something that makes a good insulator.

Goo thing is the arc went to the cage (ground) instead of to componants on the circuit. So I think everything should be alright.

grantspain · « **Reply #148 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:25:17 pm »

hope you have not fried your new diode

SirPoonga · « **Reply #149 on:** April 04, 2006, 06:03:44 pm »

There's no reason it would be fried. It's a diode. Instead of the electricity going to the tube it went directly to ground. Plus i think the closest point to the cage is on the transformer side of the diode, therefore electricity would not have gone through the diode.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #150 on:** June 11, 2006, 03:00:28 pm »

New problem which I can't find an explaination for.
In test mode. In the middle of the screen is a couple of lines, ranging in order form light grey to bright white.

More details. The red led stays on mostly. When it comes on the speaker does a high chirp. Sometimes a a yellow tube light comes on and a low frequence sound is emitted. Also the grid will flash on and off once and awhile.

One more thing, switched it back to asteroids and just the enemy ship and it's firing shows up on the attract screen.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #151 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:26:04 am »

I read through trying to catch up on what ou have already done.
So forgive me if you've "already been there".

The red LED is also refered to as the "spot killer", indicates a missing or low voltage signal. It is designed to shut the monitor down when this condition occurs.
Check ALL your voltages coming from the AR board to the deflection board and their connections.

Did your cap kit include ALL the caps for the EHT unit? ( HV unit )
Might be part of your "blooming" problem.

If you are no longer blowing fuses, then that's a good sign.
(I've had a nightmare unit before)

Have you cleaned and re-seated ALL the socketed chips on the main PCB?
Careful not to break legs off, which they are known for. (brittle)

These older game PCB's can be tested and repaired using just your multimeter.
But it is a long and pretty tedious job. More later if needed.

When the monitor does actually display a picture:
If you are TOTALLY missing ships, sounds, fired shots, or any other graphic it is usually on the main PCB.
If it is just kinda screwy looking, then it's probably still in the monitor.
(possibly signal to the monitor also)

But you need to check and verify all your voltages first for sure.....everything going to the game PCB, monitor deflection board and the EHT unit.

What manuals do you have so far on your particular monitor and such?
(just so I can catch up a bit)

SirPoonga · « **Reply #152 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:36:33 am »

Quick summary of things that have happened. Got my asteroids, no video. Did the cap kit and new transistors. Got video but bloomed. Just changed the diode. Got all my kits and parts form Bob Roberts.

The symptoms are different each time I turn the monitor on. Now it shows up fine but the picture flickers in and out, and not the normal flicker, I mean it can go out for 1 second or more at a time. But everything shows up.

I have almost every manual on asteroids, 19v2000, and the B&W monitor FAQ. I've been readin the Asteroids Repair Encyclopedia website (which seems to be down now but you can view cached pages on google).

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #153 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:47:43 am »

Have you tweeked on the XY pots on the main PCB to see if they are stable?
One at a time of course.....
Just to see if they adjust on screen accordingly and aren't too flaky themselves.
Age and corrosion can be a pain on these things.

And of course I have to reiterate checking the voltages.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #154 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:49:28 am »

Oh...... and watch the "spot killer" LED as the monitor is flickering and see if there is a relationship between the two.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #155 on:** June 12, 2006, 01:43:41 am »

I need to know what voltages I am checking. I am not failiar with the acronyms,. EHT? AR?

I haven't tweaked anything. Just cap kit and diode. I wouldn't know what to look for if I started turning pots.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #156 on:** June 12, 2006, 09:07:29 am »

EHT = the High Voltage unit ...... with the flyback and such, same unit you put the new diode in.
AR = Audio Regulator board, the smaller PCB with the large heatsink

I say "tweeking" really just to notice ANY change at all, to see if the pot is functioning, and also to see if that cucuit is funtioning (X, Y, etc)from the main PCB.
Just do it in slight moderation, enough to see if it is a "stable" function. (not all super jittery and sensitive, etc)

I'll have to get the manual out to pinpoint some voltages.
But basically any voltages leading to the deflection board and the EHT unit.

But you did re-insulate that HV diode and still get the "static" effect when the monitor turns on right?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #157 on:** June 12, 2006, 10:22:40 am »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 12, 2006, 09:07:29 am

AR = Audio Regulator board, the smaller PCB with the large heatsink

Whould would be this board 9since it says audio on it? some of those wires are going directly to the monitor? What does video have to do with audio?
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/?action=view&current=videoboard.jpg

Quote

But you did re-insulate that HV diode and still get the "static" effect when the monitor turns on right?

i'll have to watch the red led again. however, when the low noise is produces the yellow light comes on. It the light to the left of the large CAP at the top right of this pic. It's the top light of the two next to it.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/?action=view&current=chassis.jpg

I forgot to mention, when I did the cap kit I also changed the tin can transistors and the bridge rectifier (which was the real problem). I also added in the two large ceramic resistors (R100 and R101) that are missing in that picture but are in the schematic.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #158 on:** June 12, 2006, 11:20:32 am »

Yes....that is the A(slash)R board that I'mtalking about.
It acts not only as an regulated audioamplifier but also as a regulated power source.
Two jobs..... one PCB.

The yellow light (small neon lamp) indidcates a voltage spike. It is there to "clamp" or shut-down the spike back to the voltage it should be. But if there is a problem like in your case the voltage will just continue to go up and down.

If you look at your pic showing the "missing" resistors R100 and R101 you can tell on the far right post where there is a nub left from the old resistor. The resistor leads were soldered down through those posts. (if you didn't already guess)
There was a field mod put out about removing these and replacing them with jumper wires. You need to look on the bottom of your deflection PCB and see if this was done. IF so, then your new resistors aren't actually doing anything.

This is a very good read about these Vector monitors. It explains alot of technical jargun...... but also explains some of the simpler questions which really helps.
(if you haven't already come across it)
Couldn't get the .pdf link to work, so I gave it to ya this way.

http://tinyurl.com/fyo7f

At least skim down through the basics and it may clear up a few things.
Like the "spot killer" and such.
Then we can move ontodetails and hopefully get ya up and running.

Another quick spot to look at.
It has some Midway Space Invader stuff in there too, but just look at what pertains to Atari.
http://www.elektronforge.com/tech_help.htm

SirPoonga · « **Reply #159 on:** June 12, 2006, 02:47:21 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 12, 2006, 11:20:32 am

If you look at your pic showing the "missing" resistors R100 and R101 you can tell on the far right post where there is a nub left from the old resistor. The resistor leads were soldered down through those posts. (if you didn't already guess)
There was a field mod put out about removing these and replacing them with jumper wires. You need to look on the bottom of your deflection PCB and see if this was done. IF so, then your new resistors aren't actually doing anything.

yeah, I took the jumpers off


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