Author Topic: my asteroids (Read 33071 times)

SuperGunGuru · « **Reply #80 on:** July 17, 2005, 10:03:42 pm »

Quote from: RayB on July 17, 2005, 08:54:26 pm

Lagniappe!

Yeppers. The past 2 years I've gotten a cup filled with beads and candy around Mardi Gras time. I even got a small clock from him once. It sat on top of my Donkey Kong machine but it fell when I moved the machine and forgot about the clock.

ChadTower · « **Reply #81 on:** July 18, 2005, 08:58:25 am »

You should head over to the Vector List, they will be able to answer any question you could throw at them about this machine in more detail than anyone here.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #82 on:** July 18, 2005, 01:40:03 pm »

Quote from: Peale on July 17, 2005, 02:11:25 pm

Now that I've been working with these things for a while, I can say with some confidence now: don't bother with the repair shop! You can do the job yourself.

I know discharging an XY is different from a raster, but the details are posted on the 'net.

Then just replace your caps. You *do* have a soldering iron, yes?

I wouldn't mind doing it myself if there was someone else here just incase something does go wrong. But since I just moved here I don't really know anyone here

ChadTower · « **Reply #83 on:** July 18, 2005, 01:43:53 pm »

Hold the phone up while you do it... tell the other person that if you don't answer after 20 seconds to call 911.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #84 on:** July 18, 2005, 03:06:51 pm »

Well, I just thought of something. I am going to talk to this dude. He use to work for my company as a tech. He also use to work as an arcade tech for a local vendor. He currently runs a bar. I talked to him a little bit before, he owns some pretty cool originals like Donkey Kong and every Golden Tee Golf. When I talked to him he said he hasn't worked much with vectors. But I bet he know how to discharge a monitor... I'll talk to him sometime soon and see

ChadTower · « **Reply #85 on:** July 18, 2005, 03:18:27 pm »

Not sure how many people have to tell you it's not that hard... just do it. Be a man. At least be a boy and get an HV probe to do it.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #86 on:** July 19, 2005, 09:50:59 am »

It's not that I am afraid to do it. I just don't want to do it with no one else around

Anyway, is this guy on the vectorlist blowing smoke?

"you dont need to discharge monitors unless your clumsy or stupid, i have not
dischaged a tube in over 20 years - just watch your fingers!"

"first, you dont need to discharge the tube.
people only discharge the tube to make themselves feel safer handling it."

I mean, EVERYONE else I have chatted to says I need to.

ChadTower · « **Reply #87 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:01:28 am »

On Randy Fromm's monitor repair videos he mentions that he rarely discharges tubes too.

What I've taken from guys like this, is that with 20 years of hands on experience, you will know exactly what to touch and what not to touch. You can do the work without discharging the monitor because you don't even need to remove the chassis.

If you're going to remove the chassis, you need to remove the anode cap, and thus you need to discharge. You simply should not touch that anode cap without discharging and you (nor I) are not going to be working on a monitor with the chassis still attached.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #88 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:11:24 am »

I think I need verification on monitor parts.

With most items chassis usually means frame. obviously not in this case. Until now I assumed that meant the circuit board. Am I right?
Because you can take that circuit board out without touching anything but plastic. All the plugs are plastic. I've done it already because I wanted a better look at the transistor sockets. Which leads me to ask do I need to have that circuit plugged in to discharge the monitor?

fredster · « **Reply #89 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:18:44 am »

If you remove the chassis, you should discharge a freaking monitor.

There is also the filter cap on the raster monitors to discharge. (The big one).

It takes like a second to discharge it and all the fear.

But technically, no, you don't need to if you aren't messing with the HV system.

ChadTower · « **Reply #90 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:20:12 am »

I was confused on that initially too.

What would normally be called a chassis, in this case, is the monitor frame.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #91 on:** July 19, 2005, 11:18:27 am »

yeah, I'm going ot be discharging. But I want to know if I need this circuit still plugged in. It currently is completely unplugged. There are 4 connectors on it. 1 for two of the transistors, 1 for the other two, (look at linked pics) that big red one that goes to the HV circuit, and that one hangin between the tube and circuit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/chassis.jpg
Look at this pic, it's on the right
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/monitorback.jpg

SirPoonga · « **Reply #92 on:** July 20, 2005, 01:21:42 am »

Well, I've been turned off of the vectorlist. They give me conflicting info and bicker amongst themselves. Does not sound reliable at all. Now I am all confused and don't know what to do next

ChadTower · « **Reply #93 on:** July 20, 2005, 08:52:14 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 20, 2005, 01:21:42 am

Well, I've been turned off of the vectorlist.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #94 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:06:12 am »

I am going to discharge, but they aren't answering my other questions. They are bickering over if I should dicharge or not. I already told them twice that I decided I am going to discharge.

With what has been said I need to know, do I need to change the caps on the HV circuit? They seem to have hinted to the fact I don't have to do anything with the HV circuit at all.
I still haven't received an answer to if I discharge do I need that other PCB connected?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #95 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:11:35 am »

Well, I think I am going to do the logical cover all bases thing. I will keep the circuit on there and discharge and replace everything that came in the kit.

Now to buy expensive radioshack resistors....

ChadTower · « **Reply #96 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:18:39 am »

Yep, if it came with the kit, use it. Trust Bob Roberts, he knows his stuff. Besides, it's a cap, they're probably half dead if they have any life left at all.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #97 on:** July 21, 2005, 03:02:52 pm »

I am trying to find button placement specs for asteroids, both upright and cocktail. The current buttons are just not right and do not feel comfortable.

SuperGunGuru · « **Reply #98 on:** July 22, 2005, 02:58:44 am »

I just scanned the newest posts so bear with me if you already know this. When you discharge a vector tube, the process is supposed to be different. There's an diode that goes the HV board and the anode that could be damaged if you discharge the tube straight to the metal frame of the monitor. I was replacing my HV diode so didn't worry about damaging it when I discharged my tube. From what I understand, you are supposed to put some resistors in the line with the tool you discharge with so the charge bleeds off slowly. Anyway, just wanted to through that in. Hope I didn't add to the confusion.

ChadTower · « **Reply #99 on:** July 22, 2005, 08:39:27 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 21, 2005, 03:02:52 pm

I am trying to find button placement specs for asteroids, both upright and cocktail.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #100 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:36:01 am »

The spacing on my cabinet doesn't seem like the right spacing. Especially hyperspace.

ChadTower · « **Reply #101 on:** July 22, 2005, 09:43:11 am »

Hyperspace is kind of off down by itself, away from the other buttons in a pain the ass place to reach, yes?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #102 on:** July 22, 2005, 12:26:45 pm »

Right, but when I compare my control panel to picture of an overlay it looks like my locations are off and spread out a little more. How wide is the overlay? I have the vector ai file for one, just need to know how wide it is then I can do an accurate layout.

ChadTower · « **Reply #103 on:** July 22, 2005, 12:31:33 pm »

I don't have exact figures for Asteroids, as I have Space Duel and AD, but not Asteroids.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #104 on:** July 25, 2005, 01:23:52 am »

I don't remember who sent me Atari's "The BOOK"
http://pdf.textfiles.com/technical/atari_thebook.pdf

Go to page 83 (Chapter 3, 3-13) and look at Figure 8.
I have the very first problem, F100 and F101 on my WG 19V2000 blow. Now, do all X-Y monitors for Atari use the same designation for F100, F101, DB100, C100, and C101?
Well, the rectifier is easier, there is only one in the 25V area of the boards. Which is what I think the problem is.
Back up a page, how do I test the transistors, even though I already replaced them? Since the fuses are blown there would be no power because the fuse is the first thing the AC goes through. So I really cant test those.
Are the capacitors the book is talking about the big suckers which are labelled C100 and C101 on the 19V2000?

Correction, asteroids and WG 19V2000 use 30V (not 15V like the book), (34V I think once converted to DC. So do the same things still apply? It should...

First and foremost I need to know if I need R100 and R101. I posted a message on vectorlist, no response yet

Yo will see in my photobucket gallery R100 and R101 are jumped, same with the pic on bob roberts monitor ID page.

The 19V2000 manual says "R100 and R101 are used to limit the rush current to the filters."
That seems like a GOOD thing to me. Maybe I need to get those resistors? This is why I haven't done the cap kit yet. Might as well find out ALL the parts I need first.

And if that's what is wrong with it (the c100/101 cap, db100 rectifier, transistors) that means I don't have to open the HV circuit cage and I don't have to discharge the monitor

SirPoonga · « **Reply #105 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:43:42 pm »

I think I am going to buy some resistors for R100 and R101. It can't hurt anything to have them there.
I believe my deflector board rectifier is bad and now I have to figure out what to replace it with.

ChadTower · « **Reply #106 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:44:44 pm »

What type of rectifier is it? Is it the old 4 diode job?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #107 on:** July 25, 2005, 02:54:14 pm »

Also, how do I test the voltage for the transistors. One pin on transistor case, other on frame? I see I need the insulators for the transistors. searching old posts in vectorlist those can crack. Where can I get replacement insulators if needed? I wonder if Radioshack would have any as I know they have tin can transostors.

Chad, DB100
http://westnet.com/~chris/arcade/19V2000/page19.html

ChadTower · « **Reply #108 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:09:45 pm »

Yep, 4 diode rectifier. Go to the Fromm site I directed you to, that will explain them in great detail. It will also contain all the info you need on testing transistors.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #109 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:33:45 pm »

I know what a rectifier is. My question is WHAT rectifier do i need. I looked up the part number from the wg manual and I cna;t find it anywhere on the net.

BTW, that fromm site is timing out on me.

Again, I can't test voltage from the case (which i believe is the collector, right?) to ground if hte fuse is blown.

ChadTower · « **Reply #110 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:39:14 pm »

That's because the rectifier probably isn't one replaceable part, it's a section of the PCB made up of several components, most notably those 4 diodes in a diamond pattern.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #111 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:41:21 pm »

nope, one part, see my editted last post too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/chassis.jpg

Either way, I still can't find the specs of the diodes i'd need.

ChadTower · « **Reply #112 on:** July 25, 2005, 03:55:16 pm »

Yep, sure looks like that top center part is db100. Didn't know they came as one integrated part on this monitor. If you look at the schematic you linked to you can see the 4 diode diamond pattern I have been describing.

I'll see what I can dig up.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #113 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:00:01 pm »

Quote

Yep, sure looks like that top center part is db100. Didn't know they came as one integrated part on this monitor. If you look at the schematic you linked to you can see the 4 diode diamond pattern I have been describing.

Yep, I know a rectifier is 4 diodes. It turns AC into DC by making the AC current flow one way.
Yeah, I've been digging, can't find what it is suppose to be. When I get home tonight I am going to take the heat sink off and see if there are markings. Otherwise I will pick up something that can handle upto 50V to make sure the diodes work???

Bob Robert's website is down too so I can't search his inventory of diodes and rectifiers.

Actually, if you look at the back of the board it has the diamond pattern.

I tested the rectifier while on board, though someone told me I needed to test it offboard.
I tried both continuity and diode tester on my multimeter. Right, if a diode is working the continuity tester will only work one way, IE if you switch the probes around one way will detect a circuit and the other way won't since diode is one direction control?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/deflector_board_back.jpg

Doing the two tests all the diodes except the top one read .3 on the diode tester and continuity tester only worked one way. The top diode continuity worked both ways AND diode tester was 0 for each way. I would say I have a bad rectifier.

ChadTower · « **Reply #114 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:08:14 pm »

http://www.vectorlist.org/Vectorlist/2001/04/0066.html

This would seem to say that one of those four diodes is shorted, and everything else I have read says that they can be tested individually, so there has to be a way.

ChadTower · « **Reply #115 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:10:18 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 25, 2005, 04:00:01 pm

Doing the two tests all the diodes except the top one read .3 on the diode tester and continuity tester only worked one way.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #116 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:15:09 pm »

"G05-802, this sounds like a bad/shorted diode on one of the four bridge
rectifier diodes, or a piece of metal shorting the monitor mother board to
the chassis, OR a transistor that is NOT insulated from the metal chassis.
They all need an insulator and should show a relatively high resistance to
the metal chassis. "

Right, I have read that.
Hence my question on insulators.My insulators "looked" ok, but the holes the base and emitter went through were rather large. Also, what keeps the screws from contacting the side of the case?There wasn't a rubber washer on the screw so it is touching the transistor case, what is keeping it from touching the monitor chassis when it goes through the hole in the monitor? I'll take pics when I get home.

That thread doesn't explain them, he's wondering if he needs to do something with them.
The manual explains what they are for.
http://westnet.com/~chris/arcade/19V2000/page06.html
to me that sounds like it would be a good thing to have. They are only a $1 from Bob Roberts if I remember.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #117 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:17:07 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on July 25, 2005, 04:08:14 pm

I see multiple references in RGVAC and Vectorlist that people use as a replacement for the rectifier a 8A 200V unit, and I've seen mention that the actual part was 3A 120V but the high failure rate makes replacing it with a higher capacity rectifier a worthy mod.

Are you sure you aren;t talking about the HV rectifier? The deflector board only getsneeds to keep 34V from backtracking, while the HV circuit protects 90V

Quote

The junction drop (resistance) on a diode is 0.7, not 0.3, so I'd say you are correct. All four diodes are suspect, one certainly dead and three just about to die. Replace all four.

Well, yeah, since it is all one unit all 4 get replaced

ChadTower · « **Reply #118 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:18:21 pm »

Oh, yeah, I'd leave them in as well.

ChadTower · « **Reply #119 on:** July 25, 2005, 04:19:21 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on July 25, 2005, 04:17:07 pm

Are you sure you aren;t talking about the HV rectifier?


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