Help with Keyboard Hack

[onesimo]

i am building an arcade controller with two players 8 buttons each (like the x-arcade) but there are no encoders available here. so i hacked my new keyboard and mapped the matrix. its an 18x8 matrix. but the problem is i dont know which keys to be used.

[Tiger-Heli]

First off, where is "here" that there are no encoders available.

Second, there is no way that I know of to reliably get two players 8 buttons each from a keyboard hack.

The best I would reasonably hope for was two players six buttons each from a 16x8 matrix, (or maybe 7 buttons each from a 18x8 matrix.

Third, you don't have an 18x8 matrix, rows 9, 10 and 19 are empty, so you have a 15x8 matrix.
That leaves you with only enough for Player 1 and 6 buttons and Player 2 and 5 buttons and admin buttons.

Fourth, I don't know if the above statement is correct, as I only count 59 instead of the 104-keys.  The arrow keys are missing, as are the function keys, and a lot of others.  If any of these are on the empty rows, that greatly increases what you can do.

Fifth, even though you have mapped out the matrix, you still may have firmware that prevents more than 8 keys from being depressed at the same time.  I can recommend keys and you can test it.

Let me know if you want me to recommend keys based on what you have (2-Player, 6 and 5 buttons) or if you want to test and post a new matrix, or if you want to figure it out for yourself at http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html

[brained]

You need to complete the matrix, you got tired mapping the buttons?

Where are you located?, I think ultimarc ships worldwide.

Or if you are a cheapstake like me get you self the LPT Switch, you just need to hack a printer cable, a couple of diodes and connection bars  . You can get 60 inputs with this thingy

[Tiger-Heli]

Or if you are a cheapstake like me get you self the LPT Switch, you just need to hack a printer cable, a couple of diodes and connection bars  . You can get 60 inputs with this thingy

Linky

[Gootfu]

Keyboard hack will work with 2 player, 4 buttons each...
any more and you will have problems.

Encoder is the best in my opinion.

I like using Jpac from ultimarc in my Jamma machines.

[Tiger-Heli]

Keyboard hack will work with 2 player, 4 buttons each...
any more and you will have problems.

No - see my page, you can get 2-players, 6 buttons each out of one.

Encoder is the best in my opinion.

Agreed.

[Gootfu]

Keyboard hack will work with 2 player, 4 buttons each...
any more and you will have problems.

No - see my page, you can get 2-players, 6 buttons each out of one.

Encoder is the best in my opinion.

Agreed.

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot to include coins and start buttons.

[Tiger-Heli]

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot to include coins and start buttons.

No, your coins and start buttons may cause problems (ghosting - lost inputs) but you can get a SF layout for the action buttons with no problem.

[Thenasty]

That looks like an ACER keyboard encoder. I have hack those in the past. Easy to hack compare to the others ones I did, however that descricption you mentioned about 2 player having 8 buttons each, he! forget it, your wasting your time. Get yourself a real encoder and you will save plenty of time and money. Save that HACK job for your next JUKEBOX project, thats whats its good for.

[Gootfu]

Sorry, my mistake. I forgot to include coins and start buttons.

No, your coins and start buttons may cause problems (ghosting - lost inputs) but you can get a SF layout for the action buttons with no problem.

Not in my case...
hacked several keyboards and as soon as I added 5 I get CASPER.

A good hack however for SFII is a digital Logitech Wingman.  Uses common ground for all inputs.

[onesimo]

thanks for the advices. yeah, i got tires mapping the matrix..   il try fininshing it later. "here" is the philippines, i think ultimarc ships only in US, Australia, and Japan.. and i have a limited budget. im thinking about hacking a USB gamepad (topway because its cheap).

i have tested my keyboard for ghosting, i get only 2 buttons pressed when i press for example (x1,y1) (x2,y1) and (x2,y2) only the first two keys show in the keyscan. that's blocking right??? so if i assign the (x2,y2) to be the coin key will it still be a problem??

---i already made my plans for the controller using autoCAD 2004. should i use a MDF instead of Wood?? what is the best for my controller.

[NoOne=NBA=]

If you can get two PS1-style USB gamepads cheap, that will give you the 2-sticks/8-buttons per player you want.

That would let you use the keyboard hack for coinup/player start/admin functions.

[paigeoliver]

I am pretty sure Ultimarc ships worldwide. I believe Groovygamegear does as well.

Buy an encoder, if you need to save money on your project then save it somewhere else.

Keyboard and joystick hacks tend to FALL APART over time. I have done a few dozen of them and only 2 of them ever held up. The two that held up both used PCBs out of "fighter" type joysticks that didn't really have to be hacked so much as simply wired up to different controls.

[Tiger-Heli]

Not in my case...
hacked several keyboards and as soon as I added 5 I get CASPER.

Okay, this is getting way off topic, but if you assume a 16x8 matrix, then the best you can do is 4 button per player, UNLESS you purposely allow the opposite joystick directionals to ghost (They can never be pressed simultaneously anyway).  This gives you the extra 4 inputs for a SF style panel.  This is all explained at the EmuAdvice link above.

[Tiger-Heli]

First off, heed the previous replies.  An encoder will work much better.  Otherwise two gamepad hacks and a keyboard hack for admin keys will get what you originally wanted.

i have tested my keyboard for ghosting, i get only 2 buttons pressed when i press for example (x1,y1) (x2,y1) and (x2,y2) only the first two keys show in the keyscan. that's blocking right??? so if i assign the (x2,y2) to be the coin key will it still be a problem??

Sounds like blocking to me.  There are compromises with a keyboard hack.  The SF panel action keys should work with no problems.  What it means is your start or coin inputs may not register if someone else is pressing the right combination of two buttons at the same time you depress the coin input.  Not very likely to be a problem, but possible.

---i already made my plans for the controller using autoCAD 2004. should i use a MDF instead of Wood?? what is the best for my controller.

Lots of people use MDF.  I think I would.  It has a smooth finish and takes paint, vinyl, laminate well, etc.

[onesimo]

here is my complete matrix:



can i use the following key assignments:

[Tiger-Heli]

here is my complete matrix:
can i use the following key assignments:

Not hardly - I'll map you out a 7 button per player layout that will work.  It will use the Windows keys for buttons 7, though.

[Tiger-Heli]

I couldn't find the spacebar in your matrix.  Here's what I'd recommend, other combinations are possible - Note that it is critical that the opposite joystick directionals stay in one row and all other action keys are one per row only.  Coin and start keys may cause ghosting, same with pause and escape, but that's okay.  (I tried to use "Popular Arcade Emulator" defaults where possible).

P1 UP -  7
P1 Down - Down Arrow
P1 Left - 8
P1 Right - Right Arrow
P1B1 - L Ctrl
P1B2 - L Alt
P1B3 - Home
P1B4 - L Shift
P1B5 - Z
P1B6 - X
P1B7 - L Windows
P2UP - R
P2Down - F
P2Left - D
P2Right - E
P2B1 - J
P2B2 - L
P2B3 - 9
P2B4 - 0
P2B5 - I
P2B6 - BackSpace
P2B7 - R Windows

Happy Gaming!!!!

[onesimo]

THANKS a LOT!!!

i have no problems with ghosting in my keyboard, only blocking.

here is my MATRIX again with the space bar and Enter keys.



Thanks Again!!!

[Tiger-Heli]

THANKS a LOT!!!
i have no problems with ghosting in my keyboard, only blocking.
here is my MATRIX again with the space bar and Enter keys.
Thanks Again!!!

Right Arrow seems to have disappeared this time.  I ASSuME it's still at (17, 3).  You may have BLOCKING problems with coin and admin functions then 

Revised (alternate) setup to use the Spacebar:

P1 UP -  Up Arrow
P1 Down - Home
P1 Left - 8
P1 Right - Right Arrow
P1B1 - L Ctrl
P1B2 - L Alt
P1B3 - Spacebar
P1B4 - L Shift
P1B5 - Z
P1B6 - X
P1B7 - L Windows
P2UP - R
P2Down - F
P2Left - D
P2Right - E
P2B1 - J
P2B2 - L
P2B3 - 9
P2B4 - 0
P2B5 - I
P2B6 - BackSpace
P2B7 - R Windows

Happy Gaming!!!!

[onesimo]

is there an alternate for the windows key??? because if i press it the start menu pops out

[Tiger-Heli]

is there an alternate for the windows key??? because if i press it the start menu pops out

Unfortunately, no - Those are the only keys on those rows.  You can use it in MAME though (but MAME doesn't have any seven button games), or you could leave it out and repeat one of your other buttons for the thumb buttons.

From my hacks page:

#  The windows GUI keys deserve special consideration.  These were not useable in older versions of MAME and are on the "Avoid" list above.  I did not use them in my example, because when I wrote this up, MAME could not use them.  I did not add them in when I revised the page because the 16x8 matrix without them was representative of most keyboards.  However, MAME from version 0.60 up will recognize them and I would gain two additional inputs by using them with the DR-104 keyboard.  OTOH, you can't just use the Windows Key in MAME because if you just set the FIRE button to L WIN (for example), MAME will fire a shot and freeze as the Start menu pops up, fire a shot and continue as the Start menu disappears, fire a shot and freeze . . . etc.  You can avoid this by installing either WinKey Killer 1.7 (homepage/download) or LogoLess.  Here is a comparison of the two programs (either one of which I can recommend):

WinKey Killer 1.7 - Very simple (double-click to run, double-click again to exit).  Transparent.  Can be loaded at startup by placing in a shortcut and adding to the Windows Start folder.  Kills Windows key instantly in all apps.  Has several advanced set-up options like Disable Ctrl+Esc, Disable WinKey+E to launch Internet Explorer, Disable Ctrl-Alt-Del, Hide from Ctrl-Alt-Del, Display message on shutdown, etc.

LogoLess - Runs with an Icon in the Systray.  This is the better program if you ever use the Windows key because it only eliminates it in windows beginning with "MAME" (user-specified), or in full-screen applications.

Links on my site are outdated, but LogoLess is available here: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~czarsoft/LogoLess.html

And WinKeyKiller - http://www.geocities.com/clansmm/downloads.html or http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_downloads.shtml

[onesimo]

thank you so much!! i didnt know about a program that kills the winkey...

[Tiger-Heli]

And best of all, the Winkey still works in MAME!!!

You might however want to consider just repeating one of the other six buttons for the thumb button, especially if you use emulators besides MAME that will need it.

[onesimo]

on the key assignments above, will i be experiencing blocking.. i cant plug my keyboard for testing because the wires were removed from the pcb

[Tiger-Heli]

Complicated answer - You shouldn't experience blocking on the keys I showed for action keys.  Some keyboards only allow 8 keys to be pressed at once, so that may be a problem.  You will still have blocking on other keys - For example, if you pressed D and 3 and 4, the 4 key would not show up.

[onesimo]

ok.. is there any game that requires has 8 simultaneous keypress?? will it work well on marvel vs capcom and othe fighting games??

[Tiger-Heli]

ok.. is there any game that requires has 8 simultaneous keypress?? will it work well on marvel vs capcom and othe fighting games??

8 keypresses - console emulation only (or mole attack but you can use the P1 buttons for it  )

fighting games only need six.