I-Pac vs. Keywiz

[Timstuff]

Which one is the prefered choice of most people? Which one works better/has less problems?

[JoyMonkey]

I don't think anyone will tell you that one is better than the other. As far as I know, they're pretty much on par with each other. I've always used KeyWiz's for the simple fact that they're cheaper and ship from the USA (though I hear Ultimarc's shipping is insanely fast)

[jer2665]

what is the difference between the gpwiz and keywiz, i understand one acts like a gamepad, the other as a keyboard, but what are the differences in using one over the other?   like the ipac vs. the gpwiz or something.

[Hoagie_one]

for mame, prolly no difference, but other emulators and games may not use a keyboard, or not use a joypad, thus making the opposite not able to play those emulators and games

[Tiger-Heli]

Which one is the prefered choice of most people? Which one works better/has less problems?

Been covered a lot in the forums, or see http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/

[Tiger-Heli]

what is the difference between the gpwiz and keywiz, i understand one acts like a gamepad, the other as a keyboard, but what are the differences in using one over the other?   like the ipac vs. the gpwiz or something.

See this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,34805.0.html (Oddly enough also started by TimStuff.

[Timstuff]

Which one is the prefered choice of most people? Which one works better/has less problems?

Been covered a lot in the forums, or see http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/

Hmm... Very enlightening. The Keywiz Max 1.5 is looking pretty good to me at this point. I was originally hoping to go with something cheaper (as in the $20 range), but I guess it'd be worth springing for the extra $15 to make sure I get the one that I know has the features I want (like keyboard passthrough). But also, I read that you need to flip a switch to switch between the interface and the keyboard, and I don't really like the sound of that. And I also read that your programming settings will be lost if you switch it between computers. This doesn't sound very good to me. The I-pac is $40, which is $5 more than the Key-Wiz and twice as much as I originally wanted to spend. But it might be worth going that extra mile to ensure that I have the maximum performance.

[Tiger-Heli]

Well, you're catching on to why there's not a "which is better answer", as it depends on what you want. 

Hmm... Very enlightening. The Keywiz Max 1.5 is looking pretty good to me at this point. I was originally hoping to go with something cheaper (as in the $20 range),

There's the KeyWiz Eco with a pin header for $23, if you don't mind cutting up a HD cable.

but I guess it'd be worth springing for the extra $15 to make sure I get the one that I know has the features I want (like keyboard passthrough). But also, I read that you need to flip a switch to switch between the interface and the keyboard, and I don't really like the sound of that.

On an arcade cab, you really don't need a pass-thru.  Are you building a cab or a desktop controller?  On a cab, it's easy enough to unplug the encoder and plug in a keyboard on the rare instances that you need to.  On a desktop controller, you can either use a wireless, USB, or PS/2 to USB adapter with a PS/2 Keyboard, or just flip the switch.

And I also read that your programming settings will be lost if you switch it between computers.

That's not as big a drawback as you make it seem.

If you use the same computer, your settings are not lost, you just have to add a shortcut to the KeyWiz software to reload them at startup.

If you take a desktop controller to a friends house, the default codeset is MAME-compatible and they probably won't match your custom codeset anyways.

Where it is a problem is if you don't use the default set (again, I use it and it works fine for MAME), and you plan to hot-swap the controller.  (The software can't load the custom codeset if the KeyWiz is not plugged in).

[spriggy]

I don't think anyone will tell you that one is better than the other. As far as I know, they're pretty much on par with each other. I've always used KeyWiz's for the simple fact that they're cheaper and ship from the USA (though I hear Ultimarc's shipping is insanely fast)

Insanely fast is right.

I ordered some parts on Friday evening 01/04/2005 from Andy.  They arrived at my doorstep (by a lady who nearly knocked the door down!) the morning of the 05/04/2005.

Damn.  I live on the other side of the world, down in the bottom corner.  ie Perth, Western AUSTRALIA.

Nuff Said!
(Another wiz in Ultimarcs pocket!)

[Tiger-Heli]

I ordered some parts on Friday evening 01/04/2005 from Andy.  They arrived at my doorstep (by a lady who nearly knocked the door down!) the morning of the 05/04/2005.

Pretty sure he means 1Apr05 ordered and arrived 5Apr05.  I can just see the other Yanks saying "January to May to get an order???"

[jer2665]

I ordered some parts on Friday evening 01/04/2005 from Andy.

[spriggy]

 
I should have known.

[Tiger-Heli]

yes, because all us yanks are stupid enough to think that he can see into the future, and went to may 4th to pick up the package 

Err, well, I was stupid enough not to catch that - good point.

[Lilwolf]

I ALWAYS pick IPacs..  And there really isn't any question here.

The I-Pacs are down right BETTER LOOKING BOARDS!  Look at the color and how they flow.  They are labels with what looks like a 12th centery font that gives it a classic look and feel that can really liven up the inside of your cabinet.

PLUS, on the back side, all the solder LEDs are in the shape of orians belt constillation.  And seeing that they first came out when the moon was rising over capricorn I see this as both fitting and a suprise for those who dive in a little deeper.

Last..  There looks as there there will be a reference to IPacs beauty in the next sequal to DaVinci's Code (the book).  I'm not sure what the long term resaleablity... but I can only say that all the pictures in the first book are now considered priceless... So draw your own conclusions.

In final.... I have a 4 player control panel so IPac/4 was it.  But neither has ever had any negative press from like anyone.  Both are GREAT.  I think Andy can have a more level head on posts... But Randys posts are always amusing and fun to read. 

As whos a better guy?  I'm they both seem to go out of their way to make cool new items just for us.  And I don't believe either are able to quit their day job... So even if they are making some cash... its not all that much... More for the love of the games... That and to be able to writeoff all arcade equipment on their taxes

[Tiger-Heli]

I ALWAYS pick IPacs..  And there really isn't any question here.

I thought you were an MK64 kinda guy!

I think Andy can have a more level head on posts... But Randys posts are always amusing and fun to read.

Depends on how well you can read between the lines on posts.  BTW, I hope people can do the same with your's. 

That and to be able to writeoff all arcade equipment on their taxes

It's probably worth selling a cool product now and then just for that.

[markrvp]

Based on what you have stated you want and your concerns, I think the Ipac2 would suit you best.  This is the heart of your system (arcade controls won't work without it), so don't skimp here.

[psik0tik]

The only thing that sucks about keywiz is no LED support

[Tiger-Heli]

Based on what you have stated you want and your concerns, I think the Ipac2 would suit you best.  This is the heart of your system (arcade controls won't work without it), so don't skimp here.

Both the KeyWiz and the I-PAC's offer some features that the other doesn't, but I wouldn't consider either one skimping.

[markrvp]

Both the KeyWiz and the I-PAC's offer some features that the other doesn't, but I wouldn't consider either one skimping.

Agreed.

[JoyMonkey]

Both the KeyWiz and the I-PAC's offer some features that the other doesn't, but I wouldn't consider either one skimping.

Agreed.  I am encouraging him to "not skimp" buy getting the Ipac.  Earlier in this thread he said his budget was $20 which would be skimping in my opinion.

I think you just agreed to disagree with yourself 

[Tiger-Heli]

Both the KeyWiz and the I-PAC's offer some features that the other doesn't, but I wouldn't consider either one skimping.

Agreed.  I am encouraging him to "not skimp" buy getting the Ipac.  Earlier in this thread he said his budget was $20 which would be skimping in my opinion.

Okay, I mis-read what you were saying.  I don't think Ultimarc has any $20 products, but the Eco line of KeyWiz's (which are in the $20 range) aren't skimping either, they're basically full featured, you just have to have your panel planned out enough that the lack of screw terminals won't bother you.

[Timstuff]

My budget is "flexible". I'm no donald trump, but I would be willing to put extra cash into a part if it means I'll have a better machine. The I-Pac 2 does sound fairly promising. The Keywiz looks pretty good as well, but I guess it all boils down to how frequently I'm going to need to acsess the keyboard inside of my cab. The control panel will probably not be detachable from the cabinet, so transporting it from one computer to the next might not be a big issue. On the other hand though, it would be annoying to have to open her up and flip a switch every time I need to change something on the computer. It's a difference of $5, so it might all come down to which would cost less to ship to my house.

[Lilwolf]

Really... you WILL be happy with either...

(and of the MK64... Had to sell it and get an IPac4... The MK64 wouldn't allow you to configure in the background... And I spent a few weeks adding support to my frontend... just to find out it only worked if the dos window had to be front facing... IE all the parts worked... but when I put them all together... I/O errors

[DreamWeb]

Timstuff : the Ps/2 keyboard pass through is just a luxury, in my opinion..

You could still just add a USB keyboard to the cabinet.. and not have to worry about ever flicking a switch.

d.

[cholin]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,31916.0.html

[Timstuff]

So, would I be just as well off with the Keywiz Eco? If I'm not gonna use the keyboard passthough anyway, and if it has enoguh inputs for the control interface I intend to build, I may as well save some more cash with it. I probably won't even use any of those "deluxe" features anyway. If I'm not gonna be missing out on much, it may well be the best way for me to go.

[Lilwolf]

I went from an IDE type cable to a screw down one.

I personally think the extra 10 bucks (or whatever) is REALLY worth it..  The cabling is SO MUCH EASIER and nicer...

but I have to say.  I rewire a LOT...  But thats because I seem to like to build my arcade more then play it most days...   (hey, this would be cool...  Lets just rip it all apart and find out... Its ok that it will take 3 week to get it back working again)

[markrvp]

Lilwolf - I'm with you.  I find I spend more time working on my cabinet and controls than I do playing the games.  I have to remind myself to stop and play every now and then.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Lets just rip it all apart and find out... Its ok that it will take 3 week to get it back working again)

That's why I went modular.
Everything wired stays inside, but I can still play with whatever I want to.
I have had a problem with stealing/modifying modules for this/that, and then having to build a new one for the original control.
That doesn't put the cabinet out of commission though.

[AceTKK]

From the picture on Randy's site it doesn't look like the Key-Wiz Eco has IDE-compatible pins on the board, just solder pads.

[RandyT]

From the picture on Randy's site it doesn't look like the Key-Wiz Eco has IDE-compatible pins on the board, just solder pads.  Maybe you're thinking of the Mini-Pac?

If you go to the store, you'll see the "no-solder" option.  It has the pins.

RandyT

[Timstuff]

I'll probably spend the extra 3 bucks to get the no-solderig version. It'll save me more time and effort, and it'll also leave the door open for future rewires without alot of hassle.

[mlcampbe]

I've not seen anyone mention the ipacVE which is $35 including shipping. Feature include:

The I-PAC VE has ALL the features of the classic I-PAC2  board with the following exceptions:

    * When a custom codeset is used, it is stored in RAM instead of EEPROM, meaning that storage needs refreshing after power-down (this does not apply if you always use the built-in default MAME code set of course, the settings revert to MAME on power-down)
    * USB connection only. Suitable for all Windows versions and Linux, Mac. (Not DOS). Your existing keyboard remains unaffected.
    * 4 EXTRA INPUTS! Total 32 inputs.
    * When supplied with the free air mail option, no cable is sent. You will need any standard A-B USB cable, as used on all USB devices and available from any PC store (many people have these lying around anyway!).

Check it out at http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacve

Is this even worth considering??

[Lilwolf]

I personally think needing to program it every boot isn't worth saving a few bucks personally.  I think this was designed by people who wanted to mass produce some controllers instead of people building a single cabinet.

I don't believe the encoder is a place to skimp on.  The screw in terminals are worth the money (crimping IDE cords doesn't hold all that well). 

We are really talking 10 - 20 bucks here.  And for something that will save you a TON of time and make it all look better in the end.  Also allow you to change the cabling without recrimping... 

Buy the good version of either (both are great).  Get some GOOD wire (no cat5).  Make sure its NOT solid core (doesn't crimp well).  Get a crimper.  Get 50+ quick disconnects... And some good wire ties that you can screw down. 

All will make your cabinet something you don't dread to look inside.

[Tiger-Heli]

Check it out at http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacve
Is this even worth considering??

IMHO, the I-PAC VE is a direct competitor, (and a direct response) to the KeyWiz MAX.  The main difference being the VE is USB ONLY, and the KeyWiz is PS/2 ONLY.

There have been numerous discussions on the feasibility of keyboard encoders in PS/2 and USB modes, and I won't re-hash that here.

The secondary difference being that if the KeyWiz works for you, the no-solder KeyWiz ECO will do about the same thing for $23, so you can get one with shipping for about the same price as Ultimarc's least expensive option (minipac) BEFORE shipping.

[Tiger-Heli]

Lilwolf - it's all a matter of knowing what features are important to you and deciding based on that.

I personally think needing to program it every boot isn't worth saving a few bucks personally.  I think this was designed by people who wanted to mass produce some controllers instead of people building a single cabinet.

Not as I understand it.  Both the KeyWiz and the VE use SDRAM.  It was partly a cost-saving measure, but also a way to get 4-more inputs out of the microprocessor.

As far as the trade-off's - consider:

Would you use 32 inputs instead of 28?  If they will sit unwired, then the extra inputs don't gain you anything.

With a permanently installed encoder, SDRAM or EEPROM makes little difference.  You simply have to add a shortcut to your start file to program the encoder IF you don't want to use the default codeset.

For a hot-swappable panel, EEPROM is slightly nicer, but again ONLY if you don't want to use the default codeset, and don't want to re-program the device when you plug it in.

I use a KeyWiz in a hot-swappable panel, but I use the default codeset which is MAME^TM compatible, so I only have to program it when I play PC games, which I do through a batch file.

For that matter, in some ways it could be MORE convenient, because I know I will always have the MAME^TM set loaded at plug-in.  In other words - with an I-PAC, I would have to load the PC game codeset, then re-load the MAME^TM codeset on exit.  With the KeyWiz, I could skip the re-loading step, but I still do it incase I want to play MAME^TM before I unplug the controller.

I don't believe the encoder is a place to skimp on.  The screw in terminals are worth the money (crimping IDE cords doesn't hold all that well). 

We are really talking 10 - 20 bucks here.  And for something that will save you a TON of time and make it all look better in the end.  Also allow you to change the cabling without recrimping... 

Actually, I agree on the screw terminals - worth every penny, but it still comes down to what you want/need.  If you are pretty sure of the layout you want, and how you want the buttons wired, and that you won't be changing them, it saves some money and really doesn't hurt anything to go the IDE header route.

[Timstuff]

I will probably go with the Keywiz Eco, no soldering version. It looks like it's got a pretty good ammount of bang for a relatively small buck, which is just how I like it.