New Product: 49-Way USB Interface - The GP-Wiz49 with DRS Technology (TM)

[RandyT]

So, this thing only works with the KeyWiz or can we use it in conjunction with our I-Pacs?

It is a stand alone interface.  You can use it in place of or in addition to any other.

Also, do the 49-way sticks have the same bolt pattern as say the Happs Supers or is it different?

It may depend on which holes you are talking about on the Happ sticks.  The round ones at the corners should be compatible.

RandyT

[RandyT]

Will Wico handles fit on these sticks like they will on a P360?

I doubt it, but I don't have one in front of me.

While we are on the subject, here's a little tidbit that many probably weren't aware of:

The shafts on the original Midway 49-ways and the ones on the Happ licensed manufactured ones are not the same diameter.  This means that a single replacement shaft can't be made to fit all varieties of these units.

Nice, huh?

RandyT

[Hoagie_one]

The big question for me is this.

How are the controls for fighter games.  Am I gonna be able to pull off fireball motions without too much difficulty?

[dema]

1Up I'm thrilled to hear that you got it working and it's completely awesome. I received the Wiz49s in the mail this weekend, and I can't wait to put them to work. The fact that I can have everything working off of one joystick, and reduce the control panel clutter is going to be fantastic. I'm still a ways away from getting my control panel built and wired, but I'm already dreading the 49-way hookup. If you had problems with the connection, and you're clearly more seasoned in this than myself, then I'm doomed.

I'm wondering, is it possible to crimp those tube-like connectors to the end of the wire and plug that into the 49 way's board? Randy, any 49 way wiring diagram/tutorial would be a blessing. I can figure out the buttons, but the joystick is my only concern.

[RandyT]

Am I gonna be able to pull off fireball motions without too much difficulty?

I can.  Dunno about you 

Seriously though, the round restriction and rubber grommet centering makes sweeping circular movements a dream.....


RandyT

[Hoagie_one]

I'm sold.

Time to redesign the CP.

[1UP]

1Up I'm thrilled to hear that you got it working and it's completely awesome. I received the Wiz49s in the mail this weekend, and I can't wait to put them to work. The fact that I can have everything working off of one joystick, and reduce the control panel clutter is going to be fantastic. I'm still a ways away from getting my control panel built and wired, but I'm already dreading the 49-way hookup. If you had problems with the connection, and you're clearly more seasoned in this than myself, then I'm doomed.

I'm wondering, is it possible to crimp those tube-like connectors to the end of the wire and plug that into the 49 way's board? Randy, any 49 way wiring diagram/tutorial would be a blessing. I can figure out the buttons, but the joystick is my only concern.

Well, I could probably post a diagram of what I did if Randy doesn't beat me to it.  I didn't have anything to help me, so I had to do it by trial and error.  If you know exactly where things are supposed to go, it shouldn't be too hard.

I think one thing that would help would be to align the floppy connector so that the red wire is near the top of the stick when viewed from above (FYI the connector edge is supposed to face left).  This requires you to break out a couple of the white tabs over the pin header so that the alignment "key" on the cable will fit.  Pin 1 on the 49way board is at the top left edge from above, so the red wire now aligns with pin 1.  Skip every other wire after the red one, and 3 wires for the missing pin, then follow Randy's wiring guide and you should be golden.

Just remember to cut off the end of the cable with the middle section twisted.  This is the useless end. 

[RandyT]

I'll try to get something together this evening. 

When I do, I'll make sure I post it here immediately after.

RandyT

[Tommy Boy]

So 1up, since you seem to be the only vocal user and now have the product working correctly, do you have any more details about playability in the various modes?

Based on what you posted earlier we know that diagonal mode seems fine, and 4-way seems better now (?), and there is a specific "feel" issue with the stick in Sinistar.  Anything else?

How about 8-way fighters?  Specific feel in old-school 4-way games?  How about using it as a replacement for analog sticks in the 49-way modes? (e.g. Aztarac; I, Robot; Escape from the Planet of Robot Monsters; Food Fight, etc.)  And, of course, 49-way games... 

[RandyT]

-
Ok, I just finished...

This is the way I did mine.  No need to modify anything to get it to fit.  Just make sure the "key" is up as shown above and it will slide right on.

Let me know if this isn't clear.

RandyT

[dema]

Thanks for posting the diagram. The one question I had was what the red wire was.

After looking at the diagram I'm guessing you could also crimp a female pin connector to each wire and plug it onto the pins coming off the 49 way joystick's board. That seems even easier than the cable because you wouldn't need to deal with the floppy cable. Am I correct on this?

[RandyT]

Thanks for posting the diagram. The one question I had was what the red wire was.

The red wire would normally indicate "Pin 1" on the cable.  In this case, it just helps to orient the cable properly.

After looking at the diagram I'm guessing you could also crimp a female pin connector to each wire and plug it onto the pins coming off the 49 way joystick's board. That seems even easier than the cable because you wouldn't need to deal with the floppy cable. Am I correct on this?

Absolutely.  The only trick might be finding a small enough female connector to do this with. 

If you find some that work, be sure to let everyone else know too

RandyT

[2600]

It is just screaming for a balltop though...

Like the one in my CP?  Oooops, I've said too much....

Tease.   

[Flinkly]

sorry, i just wanted to make everyones life more difficult, but what about williams sticks?  i'm gonna be using two of those, if i can get my hands on a second one, and they have a completly different hookup.  does this mean i'm just gonna have to be creative?  on the one i have, i actually have the old connector and some wires sticking out of that...so i seem to be in luck.  also, has anyone tested a williams yet?  i mean, other than randy?  on second thought, i have swappable panels, so a continuous connector wouldn't work with what i'm planning.

[1UP]

So 1up, since you seem to be the only vocal user and now have the product working correctly, do you have any more details about playability in the various modes?

Based on what you posted earlier we know that diagonal mode seems fine, and 4-way seems better now (?), and there is a specific "feel" issue with the stick in Sinistar.

[1UP]

Speaking of user-remapping, the raw-49 mode should be tweakable, if someone wanted to write a driver for that.

[brandon]

yeah.. I thought of the same thing... if this was some how integrated into Mame that would be pretty cool.  The it could automatically configure itself depending of the game.  like if you ran galaga it would ignore the y axis.. then you wouldnt have to do anything with the encoder but leave it in raw mode.. sounds like a good idea to me

[Hoagie_one]

call teh mame devs

[1UP]

What would be really cool is if the same modes (2/4/4diag/8/49) were selectable in Mame, then it would interpolate the raw data itself.

[1UP]

Ewww...not good.  Even with the deadzone set to zero, I frequently missed turns in Ms. Pac-Man.  Definitely needs to be able to switch modes!

[brandon]

yeah.. see mame could interpret the raw mode anyway you configure it, including deadzones.. that would be very cool..  In fact this setup could also work with analog joysticks and Mame could just ignore everything "in between" the 49 ways.. if that makes any sense..

[1UP]

If I understand correctly, the GP49 just looks like an analog stick to the PC.  But it divides up the normal 256x256 grid into a 7x7 grid.  So all you would need is the option to remap a normal analog signal into digital-like movements, which is what the board already does in the different modes.

So it's not necessarily something that would even need to take the 49-way into consideration.  This would be a nice thing to have for anyone using analog gamepads too.  These absolutely suck at playing 4-way games.

[brandon]

If I understand correctly, the GP49 just looks like an analog stick to the PC.

[Tommy Boy]

Doesn't a 49-way + SJC + MAME Analog+ = exactly what you guys are talking about?  You don't need Randy's interface to do what you're suggesting...different solution.

[SirPoonga]

Doesn't a 49-way + SJC + MAME Analog+ = exactly what you guys are talking about?  You don't need Randy's interface to do what you're suggesting...different solution.

Read the entire thread.

[RandyT]

Doesn't a 49-way + SJC + MAME Analog+ = exactly what you guys are talking about?  You don't need Randy's interface to do what you're suggesting...different solution.

I'm not sure why you would want to limit yourself like that, but yes, you could.  You can also do the same with the GP-Wiz49 in Raw49 mode, which it defaults to. 

(*edit*)

The above is incorrect.  It appears that Analog+ does not provide the same fuctionality with the above hardware, rather requires a number of inputs on a keyboard encoder, and appears only to work with the HAPP variety of 49-way.

(/*edit*)


The advantage to the GP-Wiz49, obviously, is that it is a solution that works with all applications, with no extra setup.  But that's already been covered here.


On another note, while technically, you could do something along the same lines for a true analog stick, you are talking about a lot of data to deal with.  The 49-way was painful enough.  Imagine a grid that instead of 49 positions had 65,536 positions.  With that many positions, you pretty much need to rely on a few mathamatical equations to make decisions, and a simple equation might not exist that can properly take the mechanical operation of the hardware into account.  And, on top of that, you might need different maps for every stick out there because they use varying principles of operation.


RandyT
.

[Tommy Boy]

Doesn't a 49-way + SJC + MAME Analog+ = exactly what you guys are talking about?  You don't need Randy's interface to do what you're suggesting...different solution.

Read the entire thread.

I was addressing myself specifically to brandon and 1up's idea at the very end of the thread.  It seemed to me that what they were suggesting as a different approach was in fact the very solution already available before Randy even started.  I was simply trying to point that out.  I guess I wasn't very clear in my post.

[Tommy Boy]

On another note, while technically, you could do something along the same lines for a true analog stick, you are talking about a lot of data to deal with.  The 49-way was painful enough.  Imagine a grid that instead of 49 positions had 65,536 positions.  With that many positions, you pretty much need to rely on a few mathamatical equations to make decisions, and a simple equation might not exist that can properly take the mechanical operation of the hardware into account.  And, on top of that, you might need different maps for every stick out there because they use varying principles of operation.


RandyT
.

Interesting point.  I had thought about this application myself and thought that perhaps you could create the true "universal" joystick if you pulled it off.  But given what people are saying about the capabilities of your 49-way solution, there doesn't seem to be much reason to pursue a true analog interface.  It sounds like you're within spitting distance already on all but a few games -- and who wants to play Star Wars with a stick anyway 

This is a great product Randy!  Kudos!

[u_rebelscum]

Doesn't a 49-way + SJC + MAME Analog+ = exactly what you guys are talking about?  You don't need Randy's interface to do what you're suggesting...different solution.

Somehow people are thinking MameAnalog+ is needed with SJC (or GP-Whiz49).

This is FALSE.

SJC and GP-Whiz49 take the 49-way joystick 12 pin output and put it into a PC USB packet as an analog joystick (if in that mode).  Once in analog form, any application, including official mame, can use it.  This is the reason for both interfaces.

MameAnalog+ does something simular except in software, and only for the 49-way games in mame.  (And as Randy says, I've not correctly doing the williams sticks as I thought I was.)

It's an either or: you use one or the other, not both at the same time.  It's like hooking the SJC to the GP-Whiz49: it don't work.

[RandyT]

Did a couple more tests.  It works fine in Street Fighter series, but my stick had a tendency to get stuck in the down position after multiple fireball attacks.  I guess the grommet doesn't really re-center as quickly as on the spring sticks (you can actually see this if you invert the stick, it pushes almost back to center, then it takes a half a second to relax the rest of the way).

Hmmm...I hadn't noticed this.   Maybe the rubber grommet just needs to get broken in a bit. 

I really don't think that any user-redefining of the grid would help, but a center deadzone adjustment would be nice.  Randy? 

The deadzones are part of the design for each of the modes.  If you change the deadzones, you lose the "magic" that this combo provides.

I wish more of the folks who have purchased these units would share their results.  I'm guessing they haven't hooked them up yet or are too busy playing


I really, really, really like mine.  My scores have increased  on just about every game and an old adage about "prying from cold, dead fingers" comes to mind when thinking about anything else....Does that count as a testimonial?

  


RandyT

[mahuti]

I'm working on wiring up a rotary switch for the mode activation...  I'm DYING to get it all together, but I just haven't had time. Stupid paying clients keeping me busy.

[Hoagie_one]

I'm working on wiring up a rotary switch for the mode activation...

[Flinkly]

i know that sounds like a good idea mahuti, but doesn't the gpwiz49 thingamajig default back to mode 1 whenever it is shut down and turned back on?  so you'd have to make sure to set the rotary switch back to one before you started it up, right?  or maybe i'm not following your leap in electrical engineering...which is very possible.

[Hoagie_one]

depends on teh switch i think.  If you leave it on rotary dial 3 lets say and you start it up it will think its on 1.  When you click it over to 2, it will register 2.  Worse case scenario is you have to click it a couple times before you start a game.

getting ideas now

[brandon]

randy said that the first 7 buttons set the mode right?

[RandyT]

I realize this may seem like an odd question, but why all the fuss?

It's really quite simple, and fast,  to put the stick into the proper mode for the game you want to play, right before you play it.

Think about what folks are doing now, pulling up on sticks and twisting, reaching under control panels and "popping" plastic components that weren't designed to be "popped", elaborate mechanical switching mechanisms.......and then after all that work, stiff joysticks with short throws? 

Doesn't holding down the JoyMode button (which is also the Shift button, btw), and pressing one of your player buttons to select from not 2 but 8 different modes, and then playing on a stick that feels almost exactly like a WICO leaf switch stick, with no clicky or leaf-switches to wear out or need adjusting, sound like a dream by comparison?


RandyT

(BTW, I do realize that some prefer the shorter throw sticks like the OMNI's, and if I had to use a microswitch based stick, I would too....but I don't.... now   )

[mahuti]

I hope you're not referring to ME fussing. I don't think it's fuss to simplify the user interface. My button layout does not involve a long sequential series of buttons, or even multiple short series of buttons & I will not have 8 buttons available for use on my panel. I don't want or need that many... don't wanna see em, don't wanna use em. Plus, I don't want to remember, or note which button goes with which stick setting.

SO, I'm wiring up a rotary switch, which in my case will provide the simplest & cleanest appearance, and will remind me visually which setting the joystick is currently using. I don't have a panel that I can easily drop a joystick out of & rewire to this new pad just for testing, so I'd rather build a new panel and do it the right way to suit my needs.

As for the wiring part; none of the rotary positions will be tied to another button, and none of the positions of the rotary will be active until I select the "mode" button which will activate the rotary & initiate the sequence. Basically the pressing the "mode" button will activate the mode key & ground out the rotary which will send the selected signal. Now THAT's easy. One press, one mode change. If you want another mode, turn the switch, hit the mode button. Technically, once initiated, this will require an average of LESS button presses & fiddling than Randy's default setup. This interface will suppliment my current ipac, so I don't need anything on the board other than the 49way connectors, wires for the 8 modes & the mode button, making the loss of those 8 buttons for a dedicated wire on the rotary irrelevant.

[RandyT]

As for the wiring part; none of the rotary positions will be tied to another button, and none of the positions of the rotary will be active until I select the "mode" button which will activate the rotary & initiate the sequence. Basically the pressing the "mode" button will activate the mode key & ground out the rotary which will send the selected signal. Now THAT's easy. One press, one mode change. If you want another mode, turn the switch, hit the mode button.

Excellent idea.  Nice way to get Visual feedback, and if the GP-Wiz49 is  being used supplemental to another encoder and you don't want to replace the player buttons , probably the best solution.

Let me know how it works out when you get a chance to wire it.....In the mean time, I'll be looking for some suitable rotary switches to carry at the store 

RandyT

[NoOne=NBA=]

SirP- you wanted to get the mode selection without 8 buttons on the panel.  I figure it can be done with fewer, here's how:

My thought was to use an 8-position rotary switch, and a DPST momentary to trigger everything.
That is assuming that you don't have to depress and hold the mode button prior to selecting the mode.

The DPST would ground BOTH the mode switch and the rotary simultaneously, but cut off ground to both when released, so that the rotary wouldn't send any data to the encoder when the programming button was not depressed.

Idea stealer. 

[RandyT]

SirP- you wanted to get the mode selection without 8 buttons on the panel.  I figure it can be done with fewer, here's how:

My thought was to use an 8-position rotary switch, and a DPST momentary to trigger everything.
That is assuming that you don't have to depress and hold the mode button prior to selecting the mode.

The DPST would ground BOTH the mode switch and the rotary simultaneously, but cut off ground to both when released, so that the rotary wouldn't send any data to the encoder when the programming button was not depressed.

Idea stealer. 

Wow, too much noise in this thread.....I completely missed this earlier, sorry.  Kudos to No-one on this one as well.....(that made no sense.... )

Regardless, it's still a great idea and I can't wait to see it implemented.

RandyT