It's coming...! 1UP Arcade sneak peek :)

[DarkKobold]

I love how people always come out and say "I could do it for cheaper wah wah wah". Go ahead. Try. I DARE you.

The buisness world is a scary place, and having a new buisness is a VERY risky venture.

That being said, this cabinet is not geared towards 99.9% of this board. This is byOac. emphasis on OWN. This is a DIY board. Would any DIY community be extremely interested in buying a finished product?  I doubt 1up will sell many kits, but I hope that he sells quite a few finished cabinets.

1up, my only worry for you is advertising. Those who would be making the decision of slikstik vs. 1uparcade cab have no idea about either. What plans do you have so that people learn of your cabinet, and arcade cabs in general?

[Rich4757]

I'm just wondering if you are going to be selling any of the controls seperately from the cabinets?  I thought I had read that the cabs would come with better Tron sticks than the ones you used in your original cab, I'm also interested in a star wars yoke if you are having those produced for it as well.

[1UP]

1up, my only worry for you is advertising. Those who would be making the decision of slikstik vs. 1uparcade cab have no idea about either. What plans do you have so that people learn of your cabinet, and arcade cabs in general?

That will all be taken care of.  I plan to take the machine to several trade shows for starters.  For now, I have enough interested parties to get started.

I may drop the kits altogether after the initial run, as they just aren't going to sell well at the prices I have to charge to make it worthwhile.  The kits are really only for the hobbyists, the very people that are trying to save money by doing it themselves.

So anyone who has any interest in the kits at all, get on my list while you can...

[1UP]

I'm just wondering if you are going to be selling any of the controls seperately from the cabinets?  I thought I had read that the cabs would come with better Tron sticks than the ones you used in your original cab, I'm also interested in a star wars yoke if you are having those produced for it as well.

That is certainly a possibility.  The sticks will depend on demand.  If it's only 2 or 3 people who want them, it may not be worth keeping track of.

But the yokes would definitely be a separate upgrade to the cabinets.  Most likely, they won't be ready for the first run of cabinets, so it will be an add-on option that will also be available a-la-carte.

[Gamecab]

1UP, "Good luck with the cabinet venture", you have a great solid design as I have mentioned many many times in the past.  I'm sure the cabinet will do well, just remember to market the heck out of it.
You may want to hold off on the flight yoke for a little bit.  

[SOAPboy]

Wow, this is a damn shame.  It's really sad how people are ripping on 1UP here.  Saying "no offense" or "dont take it personally" doesn't change what you are doing.

1UP is starting up this company from scratch.  Some people in this thread obviously have NO CLUE about business.  Why don't you try to get a patent, set up a production facility or chain, pay for storage, electicity, materials, overhead, shipping, etc etc, and then <auto-censored> about his prices.

Seriously... if you don't like his prices, go make your own cab for less money.... 1UP is one of us, he builds his own cabs too.  If you wanna go build your own for a third of his price, go for it.  Go build a corvette for $15K if you want too... some people just don't have the ability to do so.  Those are the people that will buy a car or be interested in a cab like this.

I mean, think of it this way.... if 1UP could sell these cabs for 50-200% profit at say $1800 or $2000 or some such, don't you think he would?  He would completely destroy the competition.  He's only doing what every other buisiness on this planet does.  An xbox modding service is NOT a business... I build computers for family/friends/acquaintances and usually charge say $50-100 above cost to put it together.... that doesn't make me a business and doesn't mean that Alienware should charge $50 above cost.

1UP - Good luck with your venture, I know its a huge risk starting up a business, especially in such a niche market.  I personally (and unfortunately for me) can't afford one myself, but I don't think there is anything wrong with your price.  You're offering a unique product and I can only assume it will be a high quality product after seeing the original Pac-Mamea.  

yeah all that was me, and tbh, i dont care what you or anyone else thinks about what i was thinking or what i said.. truth be told, im not a huge fan of overinflation, now if im way underestimating the cost of his cost + profit, so be it, and he can gladly hit me up on aim or email me and me and him can talk it over so maybe ill understand why things are so expensive..

regardless, everyone says HES PAYED SO MUCH SETTING UP A BUIS BLA BLA, do you not think i understand that? my family runs casinos for a living, i understand the "cost" of starting a buisness.. you dont pass that cost to customers

I was just reading the argument between Soapbox and   1-Up...

Soapbox comes out with...

maybe i just have moral issues with charging people insane ammounts of money for something..

but then I read this from him..

its like my computer buisness and xbox modding i do

What do you think all these people who are modding their x-boxes are doing?  99% are making illegal copies of games and playing them on their modded x-box...No morality issues with that, Soapbox?

Don't get me wrong..I don't care either way, but I just thought this was funny

I dont care what people do with the product after it leaves my hands.. thats not my business nor does it effect my life in any way shape of form..


and its soapboy.. not box/

[Xiaou2]

 Well,  the design is nice,  but for 3000... its a little out of control.

 I think the main problem lies in the fact that you are making these in ca.  where everything is expensive.  

 You should look into having them done somewhere else... maybe like pa.   where theres plenty of wood, and costs arnt so high.

 Hanhos prices are pretty high... and has been complained about many times.  And really, if you look at other cabinet 'entertainment centers'  you can see that most are well more affordable that that.  Obviously,  theres a bit more parts.. but I cant imagine 2000$ more.

  There are the wealth extreme that will buy.  
 
 All Others... grab your tools and BYO  : )

 

[1UP]

[regardless, everyone says HES PAYED SO MUCH SETTING UP A BUIS BLA BLA, do you not think i understand that? my family runs casinos for a living, i understand the "cost" of starting a buisness..

Ah, the most overinflated business of them all, casinos.  So your family probably really gives their customers what's "fair", right?  It must be the only casino where you're guaranteed to walk out with something to show for the thousands spent, and the machines aren't rigged to rob you blind.  Gotcha bro.  

My machines might be expensive, but playing with them won't leave you laying in the gutter, or being chased down by loan sharks...

[SOAPboy]

[regardless, everyone says HES PAYED SO MUCH SETTING UP A BUIS BLA BLA, do you not think i understand that? my family runs casinos for a living, i understand the "cost" of starting a buisness..

Ah, the most overinflated business of them all, casinos.  So your family probably really gives their customers what's "fair", right?  It must be the only casino where you're guaranteed to walk out with something to show for the thousands spent, and the machines aren't rigged to rob you blind.  Gotcha bro.  

acually, all the MACHINES in the casinos he run, are set to a 70% payout.. and i can attest to it accually paying out.. out of the 20 bucks i blew there on the 3 machines i played, litterally every 3rd or 4th play id win SOMETHING, be it a free spin, or a few bucks...

HUGE payout is totally random.. a machine could hit 3 times in an hour..

id consider 70% it fair odds for a possible 5+ winning payoff for a quarter..

[paigeoliver]

Ah, gambling, the most dishonest business there is in the entire world. Theft is more honest than running a casino, because at least most theives won't rob the same person twice.

I assume you are at least taking advantage of your casino connection to pick up some free cabinets and monitors right? SOME casino cabinets make excellent mame cabinets.

[1UP]

So getting back 3-4 bucks for spending $20 is fair?

I'm telling you, it's the same in any business.  You're just proving my point.

[SOAPboy]

Ah, gambling, the most dishonest business there is in the entire world. Theft is more honest than running a casino, because at least most theives won't rob the same person twice.

I assume you are at least taking advantage of your casino connection to pick up some free cabinets and monitors right? SOME casino cabinets make excellent mame cabinets.

nah.. i should tho, but shipping would be a biatch..

CA to KS, lmfao

and yeah 1up, people know the odds, there posted everywhere..

i looove how people complain about casinos.. YOU KNOW the odds, unless your totally retarded and are dumb enough to beleive that every time you put money in youll win millions..

[hulkster]

well its a good time to get your site going with sales...right before christmas!  maybe you can rack up 3 or 4 cabs before christmas and jumpstart your business.  im sure the craftsmanship will be great, and you will definitely make fat bank on those cabs if you can sell a few.  you better get to marketing that though!  

i got a girl at my work who wants me to build her a cocktail cab, and if that turns out decent....ill offer it to others at work, and maybe they'll want one for the "grandkids"

[paigeoliver]

Wait, your machines are set to 70 percent? Have you not been audited by your state gaming commission? Are you not required to post the aggregate payout? I know at Harrah's here in St. Louis it is something like 95 percent.

It can be 95 percent, it still eats all your money. The casino could set their machines at 99 percent and still make money (I'd get rid of the free sodas then though, since it would take people much longer to lose their bankroll).

From what I have seen most gamblers who play machines walk in with a certain amount to lose and they play until they either lose that amount, or win some large amount.

[SOAPboy]

Wait, your machines are set to 70 percent? Have you not been audited by your state gaming commission? Are you not required to post the aggregate payout? I know at Harrah's here in St. Louis it is something like 95 percent.

It can be 95 percent, it still eats all your money. The casino could set their machines at 99 percent and still make money (I'd get rid of the free sodas then though, since it would take people much longer to lose their bankroll).

From what I have seen most gamblers who play machines walk in with a certain amount to lose and they play until they either lose that amount, or win some large amount.

winning payout is 70% as in MAKING money not just getting a free credit..  

St louis huh..

* SOAPboy ponders trip to steal some cabinets

[paigeoliver]

Yeah, definitely not worth shipping an empty casino cabinet.

I like getting ex casino monitors. They are always burned in, but otherwise seem to be well maintained and late model.

[SOAPboy]

Yeah, definitely not worth shipping an empty casino cabinet.

I like getting ex casino monitors. They are always burned in, but otherwise seem to be well maintained and late model.

guess i could talk to the old man and see if he has any monitors he can ship  

[zaphod]

Speaking of marketing yourself, when will Kevin Steele be seeing a pre-release cab to review?  Your rotating panels scream for a retroblast video review.

Good luck with everything, 1up.  It's obvious you've invested a ton of time, energy and dollars and I'm sure they are going to look fantastic given your history.

[RayB]

Bah, casinos have a bad rap. If you're sensible about your spending, you won't get robbed. I spent $100 in one a few months ago, and walked out with $2400.

On the other hand, when I was a kid I got $10 as birthday money and was supposed to save it. I took it to the local shop that had a few video games, with the intention of only spending 4 quarters. Well when those 4 quarters were gone, I got change for another 4. And so on, and so on... Until I walked out of there with nothing.

[nostrebor]

With respect to soapboy... 1up will be luck to survive at this price point. I work in the manufacturing industry, in a much larger scale. I sold over 14 mil last year, in a midwest environment (=lower cost compared to California), and luckily netted a bit over 100 grand in the end. This is for a business that is 47 years established, and is a niche market as well. Bottom line = it's hard to stay liquid in a world full of tightwads

Before you judge 1up further consider this. I watched a used jamma cabinet, 2 player with a computer trackball still on the cord, Mamewah on a nice pc with no special layout, loaded with games, sell for $2400 at the St Louis auction. If folks will pay that much for that, a new state of the art cab, with all the whistles, should easily sell for 1up's price point.

My $0.02... FWIW

[1UP]

BTW, *every* business passes their costs on to the consumer.  Why did Playstations/XBoxes/Etc cost twice as much when they came out?  Because they cost more to produce when the product was new.

Every time you manufacture something for the first time, there are setup costs.  The smaller the production run, the more each unit costs because they all carry part of the setup, R&D, marketing, etc.  You don't think you pay for advertising?

As time goes on, larger and larger runs of the product are produced.  The manufacturing equipment starts to pay for itself.  Advances in technology bring better prices on the components.  Prices drop, and the company starts to make more money by sheer volume.

No matter how generous your casino's payout is, I guarantee most of those machines pay for themselves in a few months, if not weeks.

Someone who got ripped off there would probably storm out, swearing that the owner was making money hand over fist, for very little work (the machines run themselves, after all.   )  But there is also overhead, licenses, staff, taxes, upkeep on the machines, etc.  So many things that the average gambler wouldn't think of.

That being said, I still think gambling is the biggest scam on the planet.  Who ever thought of making people pay just to try and predict the outcome of a roll of the dice, or the number of times a mechanical reel turns over?  What is really being sold is false hope, and gambling does very real damage to people's lives.  I guess there's no moral problem there either....

[SOAPboy]

BTW, *every* business passes their costs on to the consumer.  Why did Playstations/XBoxes/Etc cost twice as much when they came out?  Because they cost more to produce when the product was new.

Every time you manufacture something for the first time, there are setup costs.  The smaller the production run, the more each unit costs because they all carry part of the setup, R&D, marketing, etc.  You don't think you pay for advertising?

As time goes on, larger and larger runs of the product are produced.  The manufacturing equipment starts to pay for itself.  Advances in technology bring better prices on the components.  Prices drop, and the company starts to make more money by sheer volume.

No matter how generous your casino's payout is, I guarantee most of those machines pay for themselves in a few months, if not weeks.

Someone who got ripped off there would probably storm out, swearing that the owner was making money hand over fist, for very little work (the machines run themselves, after all.   )  But there is also overhead, licenses, staff, taxes, upkeep on the machines, etc.  So many things that the average gambler wouldn't think of.

That being said, I still think gambling is the biggest scam on the planet.  Who ever thought of making people pay just to try and predict the outcome of a roll of the dice, or the number of times a mechanical reel turns over?  What is really being sold is false hope, and gambling does very real damage to people's lives.  I guess there's no moral problem there either....

and spending random money on other things dont cause damage to peoples lives? games dont? ect..

yes the ps2, xbox, ect all costs 300 when they came out.. they were also first gen, new hardware that wasent cheap to find or produce.. its older now and parts are cheaper to make, thus price dropping.. in fact, now, an xbox or ps2 costs MORE to make than they get sold for..

[SOAPboy]

oh and paigeoliver get on  yim

 

[shmokes]

Hey 1up,

Can you describe the mechanism you used for axle?  I've been building a PacMamea inspired cab for more than a year (every time school starts work stops completely for the next five months).  I'm getting really pretty close to completion, but I've been dying to find out how you manage the rotation of the CPs in your retail product.

[1UP]

and spending random money on other things dont cause damage to peoples lives? games dont? ect..

No one believes that buying Grand Turismo 4 is going to make them millionaires.  I've only been to Vegas a few times, but that gambling bug is a lot stronger than any impulse game-buying spree I've ever been on.

Anyway, I'm not trying to attack your family or anything, I'm just trying to prove a point.  Everything costs much more than the materials and labor are worth.  No business is exempt, or there would be no such thing as profit.  Everything is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.  Nuff said.

yes the ps2, xbox, ect all costs 300 when they came out.. they were also first gen, new hardware that wasent cheap to find or produce.. its older now and parts are cheaper to make, thus price dropping.. in fact, now, an xbox or ps2 costs MORE to make than they get sold for..

Ok, I picked a bad example.  It is a well known fact that console manufacturers intentionally lose money on their hardware.  The hardware is there to sell the software, where the real money is.  So it all balances out.

[1UP]

Hey 1up,

Can you describe the mechanism you used for axle?  I've been building a PacMamea inspired cab for more than a year (every time school starts work stops completely for the next five months).  I'm getting really pretty close to completion, but I've been dying to find out how you manage the rotation of the CPs in your retail product.

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you...  

[SOAPboy]

and spending random money on other things dont cause damage to peoples lives? games dont? ect..

No one believes that buying Grand Turismo 4 is going to make them millionaires.  I've only been to Vegas a few times, but that gambling bug is a lot stronger than any impulse game-buying spree I've ever been on.

Anyway, I'm not trying to attack your family or anything, I'm just trying to prove a point.  Everything costs much more than the materials and labor are worth.  No business is exempt, or there would be no such thing as profit.  Everything is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.  Nuff said.

yes the ps2, xbox, ect all costs 300 when they came out.. they were also first gen, new hardware that wasent cheap to find or produce.. its older now and parts are cheaper to make, thus price dropping.. in fact, now, an xbox or ps2 costs MORE to make than they get sold for..

Ok, I picked a bad example.  It is a well known fact that console manufacturers intentionally lose money on their hardware.  The hardware is there to sell the software, where the real money is.  So it all balances out.

i personally know more people who spend MORE money on ebay, games, ect than i do people who have gambling problems..

and games are 50 bucks, takes millions to make, takes TONS of copys to even break even for the devs..

video games are kind of a bad example all around..

[XtraSmiley]

This F'ing thread is getting out of hand!!!!!!!!

I'm here to get info on these cabs that look sweet, not read a bunch of whiners complain about prices.  If you can't afford it or think it's too expensive, maybe don't post or post once and state your opinion and then press on, damn!

1up, I do have some questions:

1.  The kits will or will not have have the artwork and ipacs and what not?
2.  The price does or does not include the shipping?
3.  When will we know more?

Everything sounds sweet so far man, keep up the good work!

[Thenasty]

I have a used SPIT Cup. Anyone want to take this of my hands for $5.00 shipped ?

I guess my pojnt is, no matter what you sell and how much you sell it for, if you have a buyer that is willing to pay for that product, so be it.
Now for my spit cup, maybe alot or of all of you here might not want to buy it, but who knows, maybe someone out there will.

Just have hopes and best of luck Iup.

[1UP]

This F'ing thread is getting out of hand!!!!!!!!

I'm here to get info on these cabs that look sweet, not read a bunch of whiners complain about prices.  If you can't afford it or think it's too expensive, maybe don't post or post once and state your opinion and then press on, damn!

1up, I do have some questions:

1.  The kits will or will not have have the artwork and ipacs and what not?
2.  The price does or does not include the shipping?
3.  When will we know more?

Everything sounds sweet so far man, keep up the good work!

1. The kits will have artwork, but no controls or electronics of any kind.  The control panel section will be pre-built, but all else requires assembly by the customer, using included screws and cams.

2.  Shipping is extra.

3. I will release more details in the next 2-3 weeks.  By this time I also plan to set a firm price and start taking orders.  Full specs of both units, and actual photos of the prototypes will be available on the website before ordering begins.  Sorry to keep you all in the dark, but I am still dealing with patents, trademarks etc, so I am limited in what I can reveal at this time.

[shmokes]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you...  

Deal.  Start talking.

[SirPoonga]

1up, what type of materials are we talking about?  What type of finish?  Basically, what quality level are we looking at?



I can relate to the prices.  I recently picked up a bass guitar.  been teaching myself.  I could build a high quality guitar for less than store bought.  You can do that for most anyhting.  I have been looking at effects pedals.  Goto a guitar store, look at the price of the effect pedals, they cna very form $40 to over $200.  And most are made with just $10-$30 worth of parts.  Production adds alot.  You don;t have to pay yourself if you are going to make something yourself.  But if you buy it from someone else you have to pay for the time people put into it.

[Generic Eric]

This F'ing thread is getting out of hand!!!!!!!!

I'm here to get info on these cabs that look sweet, not read a bunch of whiners complain about prices.  If you can't afford it or think it's too expensive, maybe don't post or post once and state your opinion and then press on, damn!

1up, I do have some questions:

1.  The kits will or will not have have the artwork and ipacs and what not?
2.  The price does or does not include the shipping?
3.  When will we know more?

Everything sounds sweet so far man, keep up the good work!

I am with you!  I read through two pages of this thread.  I know less about this new cab now then what I know about Pac Mamea.

Details, thats what I want to hear

[pointdablame]

i understand the "cost" of starting a buisness.. you dont pass that cost to customers

I told myself to bow out of this thread, but I have to reply to that..... that comment is so utterly absurd, I actually laughed out loud.

How exactly do you think a business would stay IN business if they didn't pass off that cost of initial start up to the customer in one way or another.

"Gee, I just spent $60k to start up a business making magnets, but the magnets only cost .05 to make, so I'll only charge .10 so as not to anger some of my customers who might think anything more is too expensive.  Guess I'll just have to wait to sell enough magnets to cover that $60k"

How could you even make a comment like that?  Of COURSE businesses DO put their start up costs into products, if they didn't, they wouldn't survive.

I promise I'll stop now, I'm sorry I aided in bringing this thread downhill 1UP, you have my apologies.  Smack me upside the head in a PM if you'd like

[1UP]

1up, what type of materials are we talking about?  What type of finish?  Basically, what quality level are we looking at?

Aaaah...I see I'm going to have to update the site again...looks like I created more questions than I answered!  

The quality level on these will be very high.  Everything is being precision machined from black 3/4" melamine with tons of odd-angle bevel cuts on the control section.


Features of both the kit and cabs will be:

-Full vinyl sideart on both sides, professionally printed by a company who does nothing but arcade artwork, not a Kinko's bubblejet job.

-Full printed overlays on the control panels, including backsplash area, subsurface printed for durability.

-Marquee artwork, printed directly on the Lexan.

-Customer may choose color of t-molding.

-Improved axle/locking mechanism, totally redesigned and machined from heavy gauge steel.

-An exclusive front storage area, allowing for discrete storage of folding dance pads, driving pedals, gamepads, light guns, cables and more.  Also allows cables for guns and pedals to be routed thru the FRONT of the cabinet!  You know all that dead space in the bottom of your cab?  We finally figured out a use for it!

-Thoughtfully placed ventillation ducts to prevent gaming meltdowns.



Additional features of the fully built cabinets:

-Fully printed monitor bezel.

-Three instant-switch panels filled with authentic arcade controls, and a real coin door with coin box.

-A top of the line PC with 80 gigs of hard drive space and fast graphics.

-A bright 27" VGA compatible (WG D9200) TRUE arcade monitor (not the dim 21" PC monitor that comes with Hanaho's system).

-A premium sound system with powered subwoofer for deep, rich sound you can feel.

-Illuminated multimedia keyboard stows away when not in use.  Allows easy access to volume controls.

-4-port USB hub inside the panels, with a super bright LED to provide light for hooking up controls.

-A fully modular, infinitely expandable third panel, equipped with a high-quality Logitech force-feedback steering wheel with shifter and pedals.  Future add-ons will include flight yokes, gun holsters, authentic pinball controls, and more.

-Easy rear access to CPU, allows for installing components without removing PC or crawling inside the cabinet.

-And a few more surprises I'm holding back...  



Any more questions?

[SOAPboy]

i understand the "cost" of starting a buisness.. you dont pass that cost to customers

I told myself to bow out of this thread, but I have to reply to that..... that comment is so utterly absurd, I actually laughed out loud.

How exactly do you think a business would stay IN business if they didn't pass off that cost of initial start up to the customer in one way or another.

"Gee, I just spent $60k to start up a business making magnets, but the magnets only cost .05 to make, so I'll only charge .10 so as not to anger some of my customers who might think anything more is too expensive.  Guess I'll just have to wait to sell enough magnets to cover that $60k"

How could you even make a comment like that?  Of COURSE businesses DO put their start up costs into products, if they didn't, they wouldn't survive.

I promise I'll stop now, I'm sorry I aided in bringing this thread downhill 1UP, you have my apologies.  Smack me upside the head in a PM if you'd like

are you dense?

I know theres a cost you have to pass, charging mroe than it costs is understandable, raping them of their wallet is not..

[pointdablame]

i understand the "cost" of starting a buisness.. you dont pass that cost to customers

I told myself to bow out of this thread, but I have to reply to that..... that comment is so utterly absurd, I actually laughed out loud.

How exactly do you think a business would stay IN business if they didn't pass off that cost of initial start up to the customer in one way or another.

"Gee, I just spent $60k to start up a business making magnets, but the magnets only cost .05 to make, so I'll only charge .10 so as not to anger some of my customers who might think anything more is too expensive.  Guess I'll just have to wait to sell enough magnets to cover that $60k"

How could you even make a comment like that?  Of COURSE businesses DO put their start up costs into products, if they didn't, they wouldn't survive.

I promise I'll stop now, I'm sorry I aided in bringing this thread downhill 1UP, you have my apologies.  Smack me upside the head in a PM if you'd like

are you dense?

I know theres a cost you have to pass, charging mroe than it costs is understandable, raping them of their wallet is not..

No i'm not dense... why are you so special that you get to say what is "rape" and what is reasonable profit margins.

Damn, I really need to stop with this thread....

[SirPoonga]

The quality level on these will be very high.  Everything is being precision machined from black 3/4" melamine with tons of odd-angle bevel cuts on the control section.

-Full vinyl sideart on both sides, professionally printed by a company who does nothing but arcade artwork, not a Kinko's bubblejet job.

-Full printed overlays on the control panels, including backsplash area, subsurface printed for durability.

-Marquee artwork, printed directly on the Lexan.

There, I hope this explains why it is so expensive, this is not cheap stuff.

[Sasquatch!]

Looks cool, 1UP!  I'm very curious to see what the final product actually looks like.

While I'm not in your target audience, I will say that everything that I've seen you do has reeked of quality and attention to detail, so I have no doubt that the commercial cabinet that you're selling will follow suit.

[clanggedin]

Someone is going to come along and build a cab with their own version of retating controls and sell the kit or blueprints for a fraction of the cost. Just be careful that you dont' price yourself too high or it will happen exactly as I'm saying it.