Is MAME cheating???

[cbmeeks]

First time poster.  :-)

Ok, I was thinking about this the other day....recently, I just beat TMNT for the first time (alone).

Now, I'm not really a great player so I constantly got killed and had to press 5 to add another "quarter".  I did this like 80 times.   LOL

ANYWAY, I was wondering if that is cheating?  I didn't use any cheat modes and I didn't save state anywhere.

Now, I'm not a rich man but I could probably swing $20 (80 quarters) without too much fuss.

So, have I earned the "braggin' rights" of saying I beat TMNT or would I have to find an arcade that actually had this game and pump 80 real quarters in it?

thanks!

-cb

[Thenasty]

alot of games they build are to make money. So they come up witht he idea that the player can continue until he/she finishes the game. So yea, some might take $10.00/$20.00 bucks to finish it and some maybe more. I know someone plunk down $50.00 just to finish the game NARC in the Arcades. But if you had to start over at level 1, would you keep feeding the machine $$$ knowing that you might not get to the end ?

[cbmeeks]

Yeah, that's what I think.  Even though some games will let you continue with a new quarter but not the hi score.

So, next time some of my fiends are over I will brag how I beat TMNT.  hehehe

cb

[Thenasty]

I think this is one of the  reason(s) why Arcade are going out of business is that KIDS (Parents) don't like the idea of feeding the arcades with $$$ while they can just spend the money to buy a PORT VERSION (ps2/N64/DC/Xbox/etc...) of the game and keep playing it endlessly without further paying and at the end when they are tired of the game, they can turn around and sell it for less just to get some $$$ back.

[cbmeeks]

Oh I know.  That's why here in Chattanooga (mid-sized town) there are NO arcades left!!  Well, other than Chucky Cheese which is a waste of money.

I mean, who wants to put $20 into a game at an arcade when you can buy it for $30??  Plus, even Chattanooga has like 4 cyber cafes where you can play PC games.

I do miss the arcades though.

cb

[SirPeale]

We need games to go back to a simpler time.  When there wasn't a huge learning curve to playing a game.  When you didn't spend $1.00 to play a game for one lousy minute.  When games didn't cost $1.00 to play.

If some, or all, of these things were met, I think it would go a long way to helping the arcade industry.  You may cry "INFLATION!" but that's not really it.  Not really.  Operators are just trying to pad their bottom line (and who can blame them) by raising prices.  I say lower the prices and make up in volume what you miss in initial gameplay.

Of course, I'm just one guy, spouting in a forum, and no one will ever see this, or if they do, won't take it seriously.

[fredster]

No.  It's not cheating. No.

You beat the game.  Just because you didn't pay all the $$ for it doesn't mean anything.

Go ahead, cheat.  It's your machine.

[Hoagie_one]

or you can just get so good as to you can beat it on one quarter.

I played Double dragon so much in teh arcade that i could finish it on 1 quarter....cant do it now though.

[brained]

That's a pity. I was looking at GAME DEVELOPERS MAGAZINE, and they had a poll on what systems they are developing and only 1% said that are developing for arcade games.

[cbmeeks]

I think Cyber Cafes (with PCs, Consoles, etc) are the "new" arcades.

Neat thing about them is you get to play by the hour instead of per game.

However, 99% of the games are the damn same.  lol

cb

[Bumblebounces]

We need games to go back to a simpler time.  When there wasn't a huge learning curve to playing a game.  When you didn't spend $1.00 to play a game for one lousy minute.  When games didn't cost $1.00 to play.

If some, or all, of these things were met, I think it would go a long way to helping the arcade industry.  You may cry "INFLATION!" but that's not really it.  Not really.  Operators are just trying to pad their bottom line (and who can blame them) by raising prices.  I say lower the prices and make up in volume what you miss in initial gameplay.

Of course, I'm just one guy, spouting in a forum, and no one will ever see this, or if they do, won't take it seriously.

There's a place in the city I used to live in called Nickel City.  They charge you a modest "cover charge" and then put nickel coin mechs in all the games.  Some of the older units are even on free play.  They do a pretty good business.  I guess it's kinda like Chucky Cheese in that they have birthday parties there all the time, they have a redemption counter for the skee-ball, but they don't have all the kiddie rides and crawling tubes.  I moved out of that town about 4 years ago and haven't been to Nickey City in at least 5 years so it could have changed since then, but it was fun when we went there.

Check their web site.  They have one in San Jose, CA and one in Northbrook, IL.

http://www.capcom.com/nickelcity/

[paigeoliver]

I personally stopped continuing in games altogether after I tried a little test on Star Wars trilogy arcade.

I had been playing it off and on for years, and it ALWAYS took me three credits to finish the game.

I decided to stop continuing, and instead start over at the beginning each time I died.

It worked, each game I progressed further and further. Eventually I beat it on one credit. Soon after I started being able to go into the final stage with 100 percent life.

[Lilwolf]

Also, some games just arent' as much fun with infinite lives.

Get your coin door working... and put a few coins out... and don't let yourself go farther.

On the other had.... some ARE great.  SmashTV is fun.. and you NEED extra cash.  I got pretty good at one point... but I don't believe I've EVER seen someone go all the way through on a quarter!  NEVER

[jerryjanis]

Also, some games just arent' as much fun with infinite lives.

Yeah, no kidding.  The TMNT-style games are the worst of the breed, too.  I find myself mashing buttons mashing buttons mashing buttons, and someone will tell me, "dude, you died 2 minutes ago", and I'll snap out of it and drop some more "quarters" into it.

[GameDork]

Oh I know.  That's why here in Chattanooga (mid-sized town) there are NO arcades left!!  

cb

You live in Chattanooga?!? I live here in Clevelnad, just a few minutes away!! Yeah he is right, we don't have any here either.

[Donger]

I wouldn't say it's cheating, but TMNT can be beaten in 2 credits (maybe even 1, but the game gets progressively harder if you don't die, so I've never done it).  

Any little kid can pump quarters into the game, so I wouldn't say you had 'bragging rights'.  Why not work on it?  Its a much more fulfilling experience.

[jcoleman]

Oh I know.  That's why here in Chattanooga (mid-sized town) there are NO arcades left!!  

cb

You live in Chattanooga?!? I live here in Clevelnad, just a few minutes away!! Yeah he is right, we don't have any here either.

Gamedork,

Do you have/need any parts to trade?  I am going to be in Cleveland from June 12-15...my wife is from there.  Might as well share some wealth with a fellow BYOACer while I'm there!

Coleman

[GameDork]

cb

You live in Chattanooga?!? I live here in Clevelnad, just a few minutes away!! Yeah he is right, we don't have any here either.

Gamedork,

Do you have/need any parts to trade?  I am going to be in Cleveland from June 12-15...my wife is from there.  Might as well share some wealth with a fellow BYOACer while I'm there!

Coleman

Coleman,
I don't really have any parts, I don't have a mame cab. yet. I just have 4 arcades and gotta go get another in Knoxville this week.

Where are you coming from? How old are you guys? If your wife is from here, we might know her, Cleveland isn't that big!!

[jcoleman]

Where are you coming from? How old are you guys? If your wife is from here, we might know her, Cleveland isn't that big!!

I am 29, she is...well, gentlemen don't ask such things.  How about I ask how old are *you*?    
 She is actually not too keen on being from Cleveland.  Can't say I blame her, honestly (no offense).  Her mom teaches at CHS.

Coleman

[GameDork]

LOL.... Yeah, that was kinda stupid of me!! I am 26 and went to BHS..The wife and I both graduated in '96.

Yeah, Cleveland does kinda suck.....But that is another matter.

As for the parts...I have a couople coin doors,a champion Baseball and Double Dribble pcbs, plain black monitor bezel.....basically junk

What have you got? Any game room decorations or small gameroom novelties?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Also, some games just arent' as much fun with infinite lives.

Get your coin door working... and put a few coins out... and don't let yourself go farther.

I wholeheartedly agree. I've been struggling with this issue a lot as my cab plans march on. The one thing that makes a game worth playing is the struggle to survive. Once you eliminate the "threat" of death by allowing for infinite quarters/lives the game loses it's value completely.

I know it's unethical to charge for mame, so instead, I fully intend on providing only a minimum of "tokens" to visitors, or something of that nature. No coin-up, no free play. I also intend on limiting my own play somehow as well. (ie: only using pocket-change I've saved, or deciding on a certain number of plays per game, etc.) I haven't figured it out 100% yet, but I have to do something or I run the risk of losing that feeling of "reward".

I know this may all sound a little lame, or a little too much like some twisted form of arcade S&M, but I think "god mode" playing is probably the quickest death that can be dealt to a Mame cabinet.

[mattv]

Once you eliminate the "threat" of death by allowing for infinite quarters/lives the game loses it's value completely.


I agree with this 100%, once you have no fear of dying there is no point playing - you can get a good example of this by watching little kids play on a freeplay machine. Most beat-em-ups have a "panic move" that damages / kills everytthing on screen but hurts you too. With infinite credits I have seen people play these games through using only this one move.

The same is true with shooters to a certain extent,  my mate was playing varth on my cab the otehr day using nothing but the super bomb, shoot twice, run into an enemy to die and get two more, shoot twice etc etc.

Where is the fun in that? I mean it removes any kind of skill, any feeling of accomplishment, you might as well just wedge the buttons down and find some way of jamming the joystick to the left, wheeee, what fun!

[Richy]

I tried switching metal slug to disallow continues and I really improved at it.
Then I saw it in a shop in a little country town, played it and impressed all the local kids.
Only Time I've ever done that.

[xoopx]

its not cheating. cheating is cheating.
its no different to watching a good player over their shoulder. well, its better.
same with watching an .inp of a top player. learn the tricks. then practice.
how else are you going to ever beat ghouls and ghosts.. even with all the coins in the world?


about the death of arcades .. if the operators hadnt been so greedy, maybe things wouldve been different. as it is, 1% isnt small when its good output. sega springs to mind with outrun 2, (which of course it will make a lot of bank with the xbox version as well as the arcade.)

[allroy1975]

Also, some games just arent' as much fun with infinite lives.

Yeah, no kidding.  The TMNT-style games are the worst of the breed, too.  I find myself mashing buttons mashing buttons mashing buttons, and someone will tell me, "dude, you died 2 minutes ago", and I'll snap out of it and drop some more "quarters" into it.

I'm the exact same way with TMNT/Simpsons.  <Homer Voice> BORING </Homer Voice>.  This is where my kids learned that they need a bunch of credits on all the games...now if he leaves Time Pilot or Super Mario Bros on or something and I walk up to the machine there's consistantly 98 credits in it.  Dude!  WTF?  lol

Oh yeah, and it's only cheating if you cheat.  Like I was watching this girl (probably 14 or so....I kept worrying her parents were going to come yell at me like I was checking out their kid, but I just thought she was awesome at) playing Ms. Pac Man on one of those new machines at a local pizza joint.  She was doing alright but obviously had no idea that eating the ghosts in the early levels would REALLY boost her points.  She seemed mostly interested in clearing boards.  I'm alright with that.  I was the same way once.  But then I noticed she wasn't that good.  She was continuing....WTF is that!??!   THAT is cheating.  Continue in Ms. Pac-Man.  That's just sick and wrong.  What is this?  Sega?

Allroy

[jerryjanis]

You even get to continue your score...  So basically the high score goes to the highest bidder.

I'm not sure if there's a limit to how many times you can continue or anything like that.

[DaveMMR]

I suppose you referring to the Ms. Pac Man/Galaga reunion cab.   Yeah it was kinda cheap how they let you continue.  What was even worse was that the bar I went to charged 75 cents to play for one life in Ms. Pac Man or two lives in Galaga.  That's just plain 'ol greed.  (BTW it was 50 cents to continue so to play a full game of Ms. Pac Man -three lives - it cost $1.75)

[RetroBorg]

While it's technically not cheating because the game allows you to play on, I personally will never continue a game, I'm a bit like paigeoliver, the only way to beat a game is get to the end on the original amount of lives the game provides you. Having taken that moral high ground, I have just downloaded the cheat file for the first time last night just so I can play Defender with an 8-way joystick (left/right thrust option), the reason I justify doing this is when I build my dream cab I can't cater for all the buttons required to play it how you're meant to (really it's because I suck at Defender though).  

[xoopx]

if you want to see people beating TOOOOUGH games on one credit, check out marp.retrogames.com for replay inp's for mame.
watch with jaw dropped as someone beats ghouls and ghosts (the two times it takes to finish it once), on one credit.

[Witchboard]

Having taken that moral high ground, I have just downloaded the cheat file for the first time last night just so I can play Defender with an 8-way joystick (left/right thrust option)...

That's how it was on my Atari 400 anyway.    That was the first time I played Defender, when I saw the actual CP I was like, "What are all these buttons for?"  Ah, the good 'ol days.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

if you want to see people beating TOOOOUGH games on one credit, check out marp.retrogames.com for replay inp's for mame.

These are awesome. Great link! Thanks!

[subzero23]

It's not cheating because it's basically like saying you're at the equivalent point in your life where you could afford X amount of tokens where X= Y + 999999999999999 where Y = the most tokens you'd ever need for one game. Lol.
Well to me it's like going to a nickel arcade.... the value of one play isn't an issue so it's like you're not fighting to keep the coin alive and thus loses some fun value, which I'd assume is the feeling you might get in Mame.

You know if you pay $.50 for a game you'll play a hell of a lot harder than .05

[GGKoul]

How did you find this post from June?

[subzero23]

Searching for other stuff for the past 20 hours lol
hey if it's relavant to someone it's still relavant

[RayB]

Some games had limited continues and were balanced for that limit. Example: Rolling Thunder. Factory default has it give you I think 120 seconds of time in a level, and 5 contitues. Even with 5 continues it took me and my friends a long time and ALOT OF $$$ to eventually get to the boss and then eventually get to him AND beat him.

[DYNAGOD]

Next time you pump in quarter after quarter,dont feel guilty ...Feel angry!!!
cause if you were in an arcade you would be quite literally getting ripped off..
The odds have been stacked against you substantially..
In many of the games i enjoy (japanese vertical shooter especially) you will see the following entries or someting similar  in the dip switch settings..
note the second one in particular..


IF THE CUSTOMER IS PLAYING TOO LONG!!! :O

Oh! you actaully thought you had a fair chance of beating that game on one credit? the instant that venue owner decided you were on his machine loitering too long it raised the difficulty and saw to it you were dead so you could insert another quarter..
ive seen this setting state as boldy as "kill a player after X amount of seconds" i believe some neo geo-games sugar coatedly call this a "play timer"
I always suspected such an insidous thing, but i never knew it was true till i started collecting...
I feel a class action lawsuit coming on against all those game developers whom participated in this practice and for not putting some kind of a disclaimer stating the fact.. we were all essentially ripped off as kids..

[Samstag]

When I was going to school in downtown Pittsburgh, I had to wait a little over an hour for the bus home.  Fortunately the stop was right across from an arcade, but I never had more than a couple of bucks to my name.  I got very good at figuring out which games would give me the most bang for my buck.

On a good day, I'd be playing Black Tiger for close to an hour on my first quarter, and Golden Axe was always good for an easy 10-15 minutes per credit if I didn't do any continues.

[DYNAGOD]

neother of those titles had play timers..
i checked both their manuals, thats why you were able to play those games fo good lenghts of time..
you were on an even playing field and the difficulty was constant throughout your experience.