Looking for some advice

[Sedistik]

I have been lurking for a little while, as I research building my own arcade system. I had already spent time collecting screen shots and links to other peoples builds (not copying any specific one - but looking for inspiration on what I want to build). Short story - I deleted the damn folder and am unable to recover my research. I have built most of it back up, but I am missing the most important picture (and while I keep looking, I am not having much luck).


I really want this for a 4-player gauntlet games. Most of the time it will be 1-2 players, but 4 players would happen occasionally. I know I will be building my control panel quite large (2 feet of space per player), because we are not tiny people, and I have space. But I know players 3 and 4 would only be on occasion, so I want those players to be removable. I know I saw a picture of someone who built a design like that. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I am enlisting the assistance of my father-in-law (as his wood working skills are much better than mine), and a picture would help (as he knows nothing of video games).

[yamatetsu]

There's a sticky in the main forum called Control Panel Database: Post a picture of your Control Panel!. Maybe you can find something there.

Another sticky to try would be I completed my project! I posted a pic and a link to my project thread. Not many 4 player setups there, but who knows. You might get lucky.

[PL1]

I know players 3 and 4 would only be on occasion, so I want those players to be removable. I know I saw a picture of someone who built a design like that. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Not sure where to find the photos you're referring to, but Marsupial brought up the idea of using another pedestal (or two?) for P3/P4 in this thread.  Neutrik feedthrus are your friend.

You make the 2nd pedestal like a separate joystick, with its own controller boars, and connect it to a USB port on the first pedestal.

You might want to consider using Neutrik NAUSB-W-B (black) or NAUSB-W (nickel) USB feedthrus if you want to use removable, commonly-available USB A-B cables.
- Pull two screws (2nd photo) and you can reverse the center barrel so the "B" side is on the outside of the 2nd pedestal's enclosure. (3rd photo)
- The second pedestal's USB encoder board plugs into the "A" side of the feedthru on the inside of the 2nd pedestal's enclosure.

   

If you find a 2P pedestal design that you like, your father-in-law can build either a second identical copy for P3 and P4 or two narrower versions that have the same side profile as the main P1/P2 pedestal.

Either way, the P3/P4 pedestal(s) would have the controls and an encoder that plugs into the main pedestal via USB.


Scott

[minorhero]

Rather then make a really weird looking arcade machine with a giant control panel for occasional 4 person (you are talking about a control panel 8 feet long). I would consider making a more traditional 2 person and just using gamepads for player 3 and 4. That's the easy solution. Or if you want everyone to have their own controls, you can just make mini control boards they could put in their lap. This would be a lot easier to store away as well.

If that is not an option, then I could make each control panel its own separate pedestal. That way you can move everyone as far away or as close they want to be. Then your screen would be centralized and everyone can kind of arrange themselves around it.

What I would not try to do is make a control panel 8 feet long or one that was 4 feet wide with add on panels to extend it up to 8 feet. That dynamics of such a critter would just be too much.

[MartyKong]

I second minorhero's idea of using gamepads for player 3 and 4. That's what I've done and it works great without all the clutter.

[Sedistik]

yamatetsu, I checked those links before. Not seeing the example I was hoping.


PL1, I am very sure that will be incorporated into the design. Thank you.


minorhero, MartyKong, I will have ports for controllers - but mainly for some old console games. But I still want control panels for Gauntlet (and a few other games).


I do think the panels for players 3 and 4 can be smaller, since they will be in storage more than being connected.
Just starting with the main 2 player center (as soon as I figure out what controllers and buttons to get).

[minorhero]

When building my own cabinet, I found it helpful to focus on the type of game I most cared about and then trying to recreate the look and feel of that game's control board.

You could just use any 8-way stick you like for your cabinet. But if you wanted to build it around gauntlet, then the original atari joysticks for that game are sorta still around in that you can find people selling the old ones. They usually need to be rebuilt as they have parts inside that wear out and you will pay quite the premium for having 'originals'.

Alternatively, people use Wico 8 way joysticks, sanwa joysticks or ultrimark 360 ball top joysticks depending on their preference with the wico being 'closest' to the original design used according to random people talking about it on the internet.

The buttons near as I can tell are generally just leaf switch buttons of which there are a bunch of options for colors and whether you want them to light up with leds etc. Hopefully that's helpful.

Biggest piece of advice I have is to make a to scale drawing of your cabinet before buying wood or starting to cut anything. I did this in Sketchup (free 3d modeling software) but there is nothing wrong with graph paper if you prefer. That way you can figure out a lot of the joinery issues you will have in advance as well as make sure you don't accidentally make it impossible to put a monitor in or have some other roadblock. Good luck.

[PL1]

I do think the panels for players 3 and 4 can be smaller, since they will be in storage more than being connected.

There are pros and cons to splitting up the P3/P4 pedestal.

Pros:
- It's easier to move smaller, lighter pedestals.

Cons:
- It's easier to accidently move smaller, lighter pedestals while playing two player dual joystick games like Smash TV.  If both sticks for the second player are on one panel, their relative position and orientation is fixed instead of variable.
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Games_with_Dual_Joysticks
- More electronics (2 encoders, 2 feedthrus, etc.), wood (4 side panels), and work to make two smaller pedestals vs. one larger one.

Either way, a design feature that you might want to include is two fixed casters mounted on the back of each pedestal so you can tilt and roll it instead of lifting or sliding it.  Depending on the type of caster you use, you can mount them on an angled board or on the back/bottom like these.
https://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,114774.msg1217060.html#msg1217060
   

You may also want to include an arcade cabinet handle for easier grip while tilting and rolling.

 


Scott

[Sedistik]

I appreciate the input, and I will take almost all coments into consideration (unless it's about inverted controls - I am too old to change my mind on that).


One of the big reasons I want to make it modular, is I know one day (possibly soon) I will kick the bucket and my kids will want to take the arcade(s). So, they need to be able to get it out of here and across the country without too many issues. I built a 5ft x 9ft gaming table (RPG/board games) for them years ago, and that bastard will probably not be leaving the basement in my lifetime (honestly, I would build a new one if I moved rather than try to get that out of here). It was multiple pieces, but I had to remove the doors and the molding to get the damn main body from the garage into the basement. It's beat to hell now (I use it for everything, and could use some repair - but I want to build a bunch of gaming tables instead - squirrel).


So, arcade-1 needs to be something that is not too difficult to move. I am going to mock up the controls before cutting anything (probably use cardboard, cause that’s easy to grab - but scrap wood is easy also). I do want to refine the layout of the indiviual control panel sections, and verify the spacing. It's not like I will have a lot of buttons on the panel - I just don't want the jerk next to me in my space. I need to man-spread, and it's my house. It will be a pedestal design (not a retro cabinet). I can appreciate the look of many restro cabinets - but I think the pedestal is what will suit my needs (I currently have an xbox series x and Switch on a cart with a TV that I can roll around, and I love that design). I will probably have a TV on a stand that can be attached to the main control panel (once again - I need it something the kids can break down easily). TV size will be difficult - It has to be big enough for 4 guys to play games on, but small enough that I can rotate it for some games (1942 without smacking the ceiling - my basement is a little shorter than I would prefer). I did see a lot of very interesting ideas for that, and i think that should be simple enough (pedestal gives me a bit more freedom for that idea).


I like retro, but not like CRT retro. It's like cars. While I can appreciate the old look and feel, and I may hate some new features (like my car beeping at me because I crossed a line). I sure do like some features of new vehicles (like all-wheel-drive, power-steering and heated seats). Modern retro is what I really want (like pausing a game cause the dog ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on the floor and I don't want to smell it - but I want to start over).


I did say arcade-1, because I do want to build a small pinball table, and probably a big sit-down one for driving and flight-based games (that one will probably be more for modern games). That's if I live long enough and this first project goes smooth.


Trying to focus now... I have narrowed most of my ideas down, and it's really just fine-tuning some stuff. I am going to try to stick to Ultimarc for as many of the control panel parts as possible (because I keep reading good things about them). My main issue is finally picking the joystick and the button I really want. No spinners, no light guns, no paddles or coins machines.


For the joystick, it is down to the UltraStik 360 or the ServoStik. I like the idea of the UltraStik, but this is more for MAME and less console (most old console games will end up with controllers via USB ports), so I think the ServoStik might be better. But I did see something about the ServoStik plate working on an UltraStik recently. So now I need to do more research. I like the idea of a toggle switch for the ServoStik (like old NASA rockets), or maybe having the game configure it as it starts.


As for the buttons - still determining the exact number. Leaning towards the 6 button layouts (plus some admin buttons behind a protective shield or off the to the side). I don't think i care if the buttons are concave or convex to be honest. I think the convex might be more comfortable (and less dirt collection in the middle). Maybe i will pick up a few cheap ones just for a test (cheaper than my Warhammer or 3D printing hobbies).
I just want a specific look. I want LED lights with the buttons, but i do not want to light up the entire basement, or to go blind from all the glowy blinky ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I want black buttons, where the ring has a glow when the button is enabled for a game. Think like a back-lit keyboard. Playing pac-man, then no glow. Playing Killer Instinct, or Guantlet - then some buttons glow.
Also debating if i should go all black for consistancy. Or different color buttons for documentation (yeah, I will probably make notes of which button does what with what game).


I am trying to make a list of games, but the Wiki links don't seem to work. Need to find time to research that some more. I won't be loading hundreds or thousands of games into the system. I will load them one at a time, and confirm I have them configured before I add any more.
But, I have been lurking for many months (created my account 2 months ago, but was lurking before that). And I finally have enough money set aside for controlls, so i need to get going on those, before my truck breaks down, or the wife decides the kids get more for the hollidays (I am working a 2nd job just for my damn hobbies, and I have not been buying any of that stuff for a bit).

[PL1]

So, arcade-1 needs to be something that is not too difficult to move.

That's why I mentioned several caster options.

It will be a pedestal design (not a retro cabinet).

I only used the render of an upright to show how the casters were attached on an angled board.

Since you want to make the pedestal a bit wider to allow you to "manspread", you might want to put the casters on the side instead of the back so the pedestal is easier to roll through doorways.

I will probably have a TV on a stand that can be attached to the main control panel

You don't need to attach the stand to the control panel -- just run an HDMI cable from the TV to the main pedestal.

By not attaching the stand to the panel, it will be easier to re-position the pedestals so everyone has a good view during multi-player games.

I want black buttons, where the ring has a glow when the button is enabled for a game.

The easy way is to use LED buttons with translucent button bodies and black plungers like these. (available in a variety of colors)



If you want to do it the hard way, maybe do something like Ninjasquirrel did for his Black Ops bartop build? (2013 UCA winner)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,101426.msg1073169.html#msg1073169



Since you mentioned 3d printing, you might be able to print plungers like Ninjasquirrel's using a dual extruder system or inserting a pause for filament change into the gcode.

I am trying to make a list of games, but the Wiki links don't seem to work. Need to find time to research that some more. I won't be loading hundreds or thousands of games into the system.

Yeah . . . when Saint restored the wiki, he put it on a different domain name which broke every hard-coded URL to the old "newwiki" domain.     I'd update the links, but since the new server isn't configured to accept image uploads, it isn't worth the effort to make a ton of changes that could be lost if Saint ever decides that the only way to fix the wiki is to reload it from the backup.

If a link contains "newwiki", change it to "wiki" and it will work.

These links should get you to the game lists you were looking for:
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Multi-Player_Games
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Games_with_Dual_Joysticks
https://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129295.msg1327639.html#msg1327639
https://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,149708.0.html
If you want to add a pedestal with "Ikari Warriors"-style rotary joysticks - https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Mechanical_Rotary_Joystick_Games_.28LS-30.2C_Happ_Mechanical_Rotary_Sticks.29
If you want to add a pedestal with an analog joystick - https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Joysticks#Analog_Joysticks


Scott

[minorhero]

For the joystick, it is down to the UltraStik 360 or the ServoStik. I like the idea of the UltraStik, but this is more for MAME and less console (most old console games will end up with controllers via USB ports), so I think the ServoStik might be better. But I did see something about the ServoStik plate working on an UltraStik recently. So now I need to do more research. I like the idea of a toggle switch for the ServoStik (like old NASA rockets), or maybe having the game configure it as it starts.


I am trying to make a list of games, but the Wiki links don't seem to work. Need to find time to research that some more. I won't be loading hundreds or thousands of games into the system. I will load them one at a time, and confirm I have them configured before I add any more.
But, I have been lurking for many months (created my account 2 months ago, but was lurking before that). And I finally have enough money set aside for controlls, so i need to get going on those, before my truck breaks down, or the wife decides the kids get more for the hollidays (I am working a 2nd job just for my damn hobbies, and I have not been buying any of that stuff for a bit).

Regarding joysticks. When choosing mine I read a lot of reports/reviews about the servo stick. Generally what I found is that its a 'jack of all trades master of none' kind of situation. It will do 8 way or 4 way better then nothing, but a dedicated setup is better then either. For that reason I just went with an 8 way because my focus was not on 4 way games.

Regarding the games themselves. If you have an old computer you are planning on using for this, then my advice is to set it up now. There is no reason not to start the software side of things today. You can download Launchbox for free which is known as "Front End" software. Its going to be your navigational system to get to the games you want. Its extremely popular because its quite good. There is a paid version called "BigBox" made by the same people. Launchbox is for people using a mouse and keyboard to navigate. BigBox is for people who have dedicated arcade machines and will be using them to navigate. I mention this for 2 reasons. 1) Its a good idea to get your software working in advance with as many finalized components as possible as soon as possible so you can see if you need to make hardware changes, and 2) we are coming up on Black Friday. BigBox tends to do a sale around Black Friday and if you want a paid version for your dedicated system (I certainly did) its nice to save some money on it on Black Friday. Plus if you decide your TV as a monitor won't work, well.. there is Black Friday for that as well.

Also, Mame games come down on a torrent all as one BIG chunk. I only have visible on my system a few dozen games, but I 'have' the entire giant pile of games that comes with the mame download. That's why you see so many systems advertising things like 20,000 games, etc.

[Sedistik]

Thanks for those direct wiki links, Scott. I will start to browse those.

I am still working on my design, and have not tried to put a 3d plan yet, but here are some pics that have been kind of my basic thought process. I probably will have feet and casters. I like the angled idea, but it depends on how I end up with the attached monitor.

Attached monitor concepts:
This was from a you tube video. I like that the monitor is attached to the base (wall mount would be an issue for me). Don’t like the glossy color (or how cramped the controls look).


Similar to the previous one, but simple wood. I do like the wood idea (but I would go darker).


More complicated, but I like that the monitor is a little further away. I think this might be a counter-weight for that angled control panel. I like the angular look of the control panel myself.


I like the look of the ‘Black Ops’ lighting. I just want to skip the ‘hard way’ for the buttons. This pic is the one I keep referring to for the lighting look I want (but with less stuff). Black Ops added to my reference pics.
I believe the correct working would be 'black button with RGB bezel'


I would prefer that specific button, but i am not going the hard route to make part of the button light up. IF someone makes something like that, I would like to check one out. Ultrimarc does not seem to have that design (without modifications). Is Paradise Arcade reputable? I don’t need top of the line, but I don’t want cheap (good long-lasting is my preference).
I did drop some money to get a bunch of buttons to compare. Should have them in a few days, so I can start testing what layout I like, and what button I like.

I got lucky today, and found the pictures I was looking for. They were from ETSY, being sold by Megacades. Now I just need to find that sweet spot between the Mortal Kombat design here, and those other ones up top.
Modular 4 player Pedestal


Not what I want, but 4 stand-alone pedestal example (in case someone else is looking for something like this)


As for the PC unit itself. That’s what started my descent into this. I got some kind of handheld aftermarket Gameboy like unit. And decided I would rather hook it up to a TV. That led me into wiping out a spare PC, and turning into a retrobat unit. Started to play some NES games, and wanted to play some Road Rash and Killer Instinct, which led me to these forums and the idea of building an arcade system.
I had read a bit about lunchbox, but have not tried it out yet. Could do that while I wait for stuff to start coming in. And I could always just pop in a different drive and keep my retrobat build (rather than wipe it out). The arcade would also act as a backup music playing station for MP3 files.

[PL1]

More complicated, but I like that the monitor is a little further away. I think this might be a counter-weight for that angled control panel. I like the angular look of the control panel myself.

I agree that you don't want the monitor too close, but if you keep the monitor attached to the pedestal at the distance that this one is, it makes the whole assembly much heavier due to the extra bracing and very difficult/clumsy to move which kind of defeats the purpose of making your setup modular.

Consider making a steady, stable stand for the TV that allows you to rotate it between landscape and portrait.
- Use an anti-trip cable protector to cover the power cord and HDMI cable between the main pedestal and the TV stand.
 

You may also want an IEC fused power inlet with a lighted switch on the back of your main pedestal.
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Wiring#IEC_Fused_Power_Inlet_with_a_Lighted_Switch

I believe the correct working would be 'black button with RGB bezel'

Different products use different nomenclatures.

Disclaimer: I haven't done extensive research on this topic.  There may be other products better suited to your wants/needs.

IL makes great buttons.
  Concave - https://paradisearcadeshop.com/products/il-psl-l-concave-button-clear-white-black-plunger
  Convex - https://paradisearcadeshop.com/products/il-psl-lcv-convex-button-clear-white-black-plunger

To light them, you can use Paradise Arcade Shop's IL-lumination RGB 5VDC LED.
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/products/il-lumination-rgb-5vdc-led

This video shows how to install the IL-lumination LED.
- Use the white connector to attach it to an LED controller. (P1/P2 pedestal?)
- Use the black connector and this harness as shown in the video for no LED controller. (P3 and P4 pedestals?)
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/products/ez-rgb-harness

Is Paradise Arcade reputable?

Absolutely yes.  Bryan and Susan are great.   

I've been using their LED buttons, wiring, and other products for over 13 years.

I got lucky today, and found the pictures I was looking for. They were from ETSY

That's what I was picturing for a 3 pedestal setup.
- The P1/P2 pedestal sticks would be great for dual joystick games like Smash TV.
- Trying to use the P3 and P4 pedestal sticks for dual joystick games might be a bit unstable unless you add some weight to the base.

You might want to consider putting P3 and P4 on a single pedestal.
- This approach would allow you to run P3 and P4 off a single encoder and LED controller.
- For games like TMNT, it would also allow you to keep the player position aligned with screen position without having to remap the controls in MAME and maybe the LEDs in LEDBlinky.

Screen position:
  P1    P2    P3    P4

Two pedestal setup:
 [P1    P2] [P3    P4]  (shift the main pedestal left so the center of the screen is between P2 and P3)

Three pedestal setup:
 [P3]  [P1   P2] [P4]  (keeps the main pedestal centered on the screen but changes player order) or
 [P1    P2] [P3] [P4]  (shift the main pedestal left so the center of the screen is between P2 and P3)

Are you designing these pedestals for standing use only or do you want the option to use stools?

Scott

[Sedistik]

A follow up question...
I am kind of leaning towards making the control panel look like a giant old Atari 2600. I was thinking of seeing if someone makes a modern version of the 'reset switch' from the Atari 2600.
They look like a toggle switch, but act like a button - thinking of using something like that in place of 'coin' and 'player' buttons. Sorry, but I am not versed on the technical term for this.

[BadMouth]

Probably already been mentioned, but the joysticks are oriented wrong on all those.
See pic in my signature and almost all original 4 player arcade panels.
It's counterintuitive, but people will naturally move the joystick in the same physical direction they want the character on screen to go.
Everything on old arcade cabinets was to make money.  If people had a better experience and dropped more quarters in machines with angled joysticks you can be assured they would have been made that way.
People can adjust to it being angled if they use it regularly, but THEY HAVE TO ADJUST.  They don't have to adjust if the joystick is parallel with the screen.

Notice on Gauntlet that "UP" is labeled.

[RandyT]

A follow up question...
I am kind of leaning towards making the control panel look like a giant old Atari 2600. I was thinking of seeing if someone makes a modern version of the 'reset switch' from the Atari 2600.
They look like a toggle switch, but act like a button - thinking of using something like that in place of 'coin' and 'player' buttons. Sorry, but I am not versed on the technical term for this.

You'll want to look for a "momentary slide switch" or "momentary spring-return slide switch".  Good luck on finding a stock one with the same appearance, however. 

[PL1]

A follow up question...
I am kind of leaning towards making the control panel look like a giant old Atari 2600. I was thinking of seeing if someone makes a modern version of the 'reset switch' from the Atari 2600.
They look like a toggle switch, but act like a button - thinking of using something like that in place of 'coin' and 'player' buttons. Sorry, but I am not versed on the technical term for this.

The original switches and anything you'll find off-the-shelf will look really tiny on a 4P control panel.

A scaled-up replica would probably work.

Just spitballing here, but you might be able to combine some (3/8" or 1/2"?) aluminum round stock, a 3d printed sled to hold the round stock, a 3d printed frame for the sled to slide in, a bunch of small bearings (8-10 of them?) like these so the sled glides smoothly in the frame, an extension spring to pull the sled back when the lever is released, and a roller lever arm microswitch that the sled activates when it is full-forward.

Another option would be to use some 4" drawer slides like these for the sled/frame/bearings.


Scott
EDIT: Found some 2.75" slides here.