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Author Topic: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way  (Read 1218 times)

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rackoon

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Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« on: September 10, 2021, 02:31:34 pm »
Got a build with students going on and we got limited space for 2-1/4 trackball, spinner, and some buttons along side of them. (we allready have the two 8 ways with the 6 button each set up completed. Any reason I need more than 2 buttons  between my 4 way and spinner  :dunno

I make my own control panels out of plywood but this build I am paying a metal shop to form one and drill all the holes because I moved from a construction school campus to a juvenile detention center and I can only give them glue and a screw gun. I make parts at home and bring them in to put together. 

I play fighting games with my students and a lot of robotron, millipede, Ms Pacman, tempest, and joust, so I havent explored a lot of 4 way stick games in years. Although, I grew up in arcades in the 80"s and did play them all.

My students think they they are going to try them all, but lets face it we all kind of pick our top 100 after the newnest wears off of having access to 10,000 games.

I put my latest cab in from school in storage half done last year becasue I changed schools, and working on another at home for myself, so Im between working cabs. :blah:

Can any one think of a reason to have more than two buttons between my 4 way and spinner. Am I going to miss on any awesome game I havent tap into yet. Once the shop is done it would be hard to change
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Vocalitus

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2021, 04:48:06 pm »
I tend to have 4 buttons on my Galaga in case I need to play a game where all traditional buttons are required on a gamepad, but in reality no you do not need more than fire and shields on vertical shoot-em-ups.

I went ahead and got one of these Joysticks to use with my GRS spinner for Tron and tempest spinner games.  I only play the games I am allowed to use in my collection (licensed), so I am severely limited by the rom set and only play those games only.  I have home software audits every month.   ;D

If you are working with youths in a detention center then you will be in the same boat with regards to what you can play also.

So your mileage might vary.  You can make a list with MAME to see what games require two buttons.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 04:49:43 pm by Vocalitus »

rackoon

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2021, 02:24:56 am »
thanks for the input. I was going to stick a computer with the whole mame set in the cab until someone says something. Only a few people come into the school room that are not students so I doubt anyone will care about roms.

I cant think of any games that had more than fire or attack and jump. I gave it some thought and I think the player two buttons could be used and not be to awkward if a game needs more than two buttons. I just know that i have to have a dedicated 4 way and even that will be tight to fit. At this point I would have to fill and weld blanks in the holes to move everything and fit more than two buttons.

I wonder if there is a way to search how many games use a specific number of  buttons  :dunno
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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2021, 04:01:17 am »
I wonder if there is a way to search how many games use a specific number of  buttons  :dunno
You might want to look into MAWLER.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,136193.0.html


Scott

javeryh

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2021, 05:52:59 pm »
I would just put a list together of all the games you want to play and go from there.  I went with 3 buttons on mine so I could play Asteroids.

ericball

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2021, 07:14:21 am »
Game suggestions for vertical 4 way + 1 button (from my top 40)
Burger Time, Dig Dug, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Junior, Donkey Kong 3, Frogger, Galaga, Galaxian, Gorf, Jr. Pac-Man, Mappy, Moon Cresta, Ms. Pac-Man, Pengo, Phoenix, Pooyan, Pac-Man, Space Invaders

2 buttons adds (top 40):
Dig Dug 2, Jumping Jack, Lady Bug, Mr. Do's Castle, Qix, Space Panic

3 buttons adds:
Tutankham

4 buttons adds:
Chinese Hero, KO Punch, Street Heat

So as you can see, after 2 buttons the number of games drops off dramatically (and there's lots more that only needs 1 & 2 buttons).
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Thenasty

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2021, 11:25:25 am »
only one reason why you want 4 buttons, MOUSE TRAP :)
Thenasty's Arcademania Horizontal/Vertical setup.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=26696.0

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javeryh

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2021, 04:59:54 pm »
2 buttons adds (top 40):
Jumping Jack, Lady Bug, Mr. Do's Castle

Wait... what does the second button do in any of these games?  I refuse to believe this.  I've been playing Jumping Jack for over 15 years on my DK+ and did not know this.  I absolutely suck at the game - is this why??

Same thing with Lady Bug... except I'm 99.9999999% certain there are NO buttons required.

Mr. Do!'s Castle is also a 1 button game as far as I know.  Where are you getting this info?

PL1

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2021, 08:12:42 pm »
2 buttons adds (top 40):
Jumping Jack, Lady Bug, Mr. Do's Castle

Wait... what does the second button do in any of these games?  I refuse to believe this.  I've been playing Jumping Jack for over 15 years on my DK+ and did not know this.  I absolutely suck at the game - is this why??

Same thing with Lady Bug... except I'm 99.9999999% certain there are NO buttons required.

Mr. Do!'s Castle is also a 1 button game as far as I know.  Where are you getting this info?
Lady Bug is indeed a joystick-only game.

Most pictures and flyers showing Jumping Jack and Mr. Do's Castle cabs and control panels show a single button setup.

 

Mr. Do's Castle edge connector pinout here only shows a single input so both of the buttons on this panel go to that single input -- many games had an abidextrous control setup like this.



For some reason MAME has two button inputs for both Jumping Jack and Mr. Do's Castle and both inputs appear to do the same thing.   :dunno

Looks like that is confirmed when looking at lines 50 - 51 (Mr. Do's Castle input ports?) of the docastle.cpp driver on MAME GitHub.  Both games are part of this driver.
Code: [Select]
43 c005      IN1
44           bit 7 = START 2
45           bit 6 = unused
46           bit 5 = jump player 2
47           bit 4 = fire player 2
48           bit 3 = START 1
49           bit 2 = unused
50           bit 1 = jump player 1(same effect as fire)
51           bit 0 = fire player 1

If I'm reading lines 426 - 427 right, Jumping Jack uses the same input ports as Mr. Do's Castle -- except for the dipswitches on 429 -440.
Code: [Select]
426 static INPUT_PORTS_START( jjack )
427    PORT_INCLUDE( docastle )
428
429    PORT_MODIFY("DSW1")
430    PORT_DIPNAME( 0x03, 0x03, "Difficulty?" )
431    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x03, DEF_STR( Easy ) )
432    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x02, DEF_STR( Medium ) )
433    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x01, DEF_STR( Hard ) )
434    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x00, DEF_STR( Hardest ) )
435    PORT_DIPNAME( 0x08, 0x08, DEF_STR( Flip_Screen ) )
436    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x08, DEF_STR( Off ) )
437    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x00, DEF_STR( On ) )
438    PORT_DIPNAME( 0x10, 0x10, "Extra?" )
439    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x10, DEF_STR( Easy ) )
440    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x00, DEF_STR( Hard ) )
441 INPUT_PORTS_END


Scott

RandyT

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2021, 09:05:40 am »
only one reason why you want 4 buttons, MOUSE TRAP :)

I grew up playing a lot of Mouse Trap on my trusty Colecovision.  It's a fun game, and I'd be sad if I couldn't play  it on my cabinet because I didn't have enough buttons.

javeryh

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2021, 09:54:59 am »
2 buttons adds (top 40):
Jumping Jack, Lady Bug, Mr. Do's Castle

Wait... what does the second button do in any of these games?  I refuse to believe this.  I've been playing Jumping Jack for over 15 years on my DK+ and did not know this.  I absolutely suck at the game - is this why??

Same thing with Lady Bug... except I'm 99.9999999% certain there are NO buttons required.

Mr. Do!'s Castle is also a 1 button game as far as I know.  Where are you getting this info?
Lady Bug is indeed a joystick-only game.

Most pictures and flyers showing Jumping Jack and Mr. Do's Castle cabs and control panels show a single button setup.

 

Mr. Do's Castle edge connector pinout here only shows a single input so both of the buttons on this panel go to that single input -- many games had an abidextrous control setup like this.



For some reason MAME has two button inputs for both Jumping Jack and Mr. Do's Castle and both inputs appear to do the same thing.   :dunno

Looks like that is confirmed when looking at lines 50 - 51 (Mr. Do's Castle input ports?) of the docastle.cpp driver on MAME GitHub.  Both games are part of this driver.
Code: [Select]
43 c005      IN1
44           bit 7 = START 2
45           bit 6 = unused
46           bit 5 = jump player 2
47           bit 4 = fire player 2
48           bit 3 = START 1
49           bit 2 = unused
50           bit 1 = jump player 1(same effect as fire)
51           bit 0 = fire player 1

If I'm reading lines 426 - 427 right, Jumping Jack uses the same input ports as Mr. Do's Castle -- except for the dipswitches on 429 -440.
Code: [Select]
426 static INPUT_PORTS_START( jjack )
427    PORT_INCLUDE( docastle )
428
429    PORT_MODIFY("DSW1")
430    PORT_DIPNAME( 0x03, 0x03, "Difficulty?" )
431    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x03, DEF_STR( Easy ) )
432    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x02, DEF_STR( Medium ) )
433    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x01, DEF_STR( Hard ) )
434    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x00, DEF_STR( Hardest ) )
435    PORT_DIPNAME( 0x08, 0x08, DEF_STR( Flip_Screen ) )
436    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x08, DEF_STR( Off ) )
437    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x00, DEF_STR( On ) )
438    PORT_DIPNAME( 0x10, 0x10, "Extra?" )
439    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x10, DEF_STR( Easy ) )
440    PORT_DIPSETTING(    0x00, DEF_STR( Hard ) )
441 INPUT_PORTS_END


Scott

Great info.  I just checked KLOV when I was trying to find 4-way one button games for my DK+ and all three games are on there (and are wicked fun).  Jumping Jack is especially hard so I thought for a split second that maybe I was missing something.  I've only ever made it to the third screen and I think there are six total.

LTC

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2021, 04:55:00 pm »
Game suggestions for vertical 4 way + 1 button (from my top 40)
Burger Time, Dig Dug, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Junior, Donkey Kong 3, Frogger, Galaga, Galaxian, Gorf, Jr. Pac-Man, Mappy, Moon Cresta, Ms. Pac-Man, Pengo, Phoenix, Pooyan, Pac-Man, Space Invaders

Also, Phoenix is 2 buttons, unless you don't like shields....

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2021, 02:36:01 am »
Certain game cabinet versions, have two buttons, so that you can play left or right handed.

 IE:  Hold the stick with your Left, and use Right button.

 OR   

       Hold stick with your Right, and press the Left button.

 The button could be wired together... however, I believe that they often chose separate inputs,
just in case one of the button switches broke.

 Also, if it was a cocktail cabinet, it would have been cleaner wiring to use a separate input,
rather than running the wire all the way across to the opposite side Control panel.

 Obviously, a lot of these cabinets were designed to be able to easily swap between different
game boards.. so keeping the buttons as separate inputs, would further help in that manor.



 These "control databases", SHOULD be labeled to denote that these are not different functions.
(Duplicates)


 ***  I believe its 5 Buttons, if you want to play Defender / Stargate on it.
(which should work "OK" on a 4way Stick.  You wont be as quick, due to the longer stick travel)


 I highly recommend using real Leaf Switches, instead of Microswitches.  (At least, on One of
the buttons)    A game like Haileys Comet, cant be played well without the effortless rapidfire that is
possible with a real leafswitch + "Feathering" (keeping the button mostly pressed, and lightly
bouncing the switch on/off, using a light and quick vibration).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 02:38:53 am by Xiaou2 »

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2021, 02:49:33 pm »
Also, Phoenix is 2 buttons, unless you don't like shields....

Pheonix without shields is like skydiving without a parachute  :laugh2:

Vocalitus

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2021, 05:49:21 am »
Also, Phoenix is 2 buttons, unless you don't like shields....

Pheonix without shields is like skydiving without a parachute  :laugh2:

Shields are for old ladies.

RandyT

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2021, 10:36:16 am »

Shields are for old ladies.

A wise man enters battle with every advantage afforded him.  ;D

Vocalitus

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Re: Any reason for more than 2 buttons with 4-way
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 04:48:45 am »

Shields are for old ladies.

A wise man enters battle with every advantage afforded him.  ;D

A twelve year old doesn't.  Crap. Forty-one years ago tomorrow and still totally shield-less.  :dizzy:

 We should add demon attack for the 2600.  That game will man you up in no time.