What program do you guys use to make CP art?

[javeryh]

I don’t have access to Photoshop or Illustrator so I was looking at the free options like Inkscape or GIMP.  I have never used a program like this other than MS Paint so I’ll be starting from nothing.  Obviously, I will need to place things like buttons in precise locations and have consistent spacing so if I can’t do that then I won’t even bother.

Is this something worth spending a few days on or is the learning curve too steep?  I’m not planning on anything complex - just some lines and text.

Thanks.

[bperkins01]

I started to learn Inkscape..  but lost interest.. As I remember its vector - which is what you want to use..
I suspect there is a pretty good learning curve..  It took me a while to learn Sketchup - but I've drawn enough plans for things that the curve was worth it.
if you are doing just a single CP - the learning curve may not be worth it.. 

[CitznFish]

if you're quick enough with your art you can use the trial version of photoshop. 7 days free. that's how my cheap-o self did it.

[Howard_Casto]

I believe adobe also has some sort of subscription service now.  Not sure about the details though. 

[CitznFish]

You can get the photographer package..Photoshop and lightbox for $9.99/mo

But really you should do artwork for arcade cabinets  in illustrator.

[Howard_Casto]

Eh vector or raster doesn't really matter.  Printers typically use a png image anyway so it'll work.  Illustrator is maybe preferable but photoshop gets the job done. 

[javeryh]

So it seems like Inkscape or GIMP can get the job done?  Just vector vs rastor?  I guess it doesn’t matter as long as I can go to 300dpi and put things exactly where I want (measured) on the canvas.

Now the question is which is easiest to learn over a few days starting from nothing?

[nipsmg]

Honestly, I'd spend the $9.99 for one month of the cheap Adobe CC Photographer's package and get PhotoShop.  There are 400 bajillion videos, tutorials, etc out there for anything you could possibly want to do with Photoshop.  $10 for your sanity is a pretty good price.

[MartyKong]

I used Gimp and lots of YouTube tutorials. Used inkscape for the small amount of vector work I had. I know Photoshop is far superior but it works for me.

[jdbailey1206]

Inkscape and GIMP are perfect.  They are free and you will have them in the future as opposed to paying $9.99 a month to just have access to that program for the month long period.  That is if you can get all your artwork done in a month.  Say it takes 6.  Then you are out $59.94 for something you may not be using consistently.

The other route you may want to take if you don't want the headache of learning the program is to have Opt2Not, Le Chuck, or SNAAKE do the artwork for you.  Opt and SNAAKE have been active this month but I have not heard from Le Chuck since April. 

[Gilrock]

I'm on the subscription plan for Photoshop but for vector art I like using InkScape.  Illustrator is much better than Photoshop for vector work but I can't justify paying for it.  I can do vector work in Photoshop but its just more a pain for me.

[nipsmg]

I've been using _Photoshop on and off for everything I've ever done so I just go with that.  I had a problem learning GIMP, but probably because I was so used to Photoshop. (Kinda like how I had trouble picking up snowboarding beacuse I was skiing for so long).

I never got the feel for vector work...  That was a problem in the past when I'd have huge raster files and had trouble getting them printed because a print shop's PC wouldn't have enough memory to load it, but nowadays it doesn't matter if I have a 300MB raster psd file -- and I rarely have the need to scale my artwork up -- and when I do, I use ON1 resize which does a spectacular ---goshdarn--- job of scaling raster stuff (as long as there's enough detail) and was only $29. 
 

[darthpaul]

I've been using Gimp for years, somewhat steep learning curve but there are plenty of resources out there. This hobby can get expensive, so way pay for one more thing that you don't have to.

[mahuti]

I've been a graphics pro for 20+ years. I use Photoshop and Illustrator daily because they're grinded in. I have tried Inkscape, Sketch, Gimp, Pixelmator in the past and as far as I'm concerned they're pretty analogous by and large to Adobe products, at least where doing something "simple" like arcade art. They're free so... worst case, start free and pay for Adobe stuff if you get stuck. Frankly after about version 6 or 7 of Photoshop they haven't added anything I've been impressed with, so you could probably also get away with a very cheap old version of those apps if they'll run on your machine.

With regard to vector vs raster... if you plan to work in raster, just make your file 300 dpi at size and it will turn out fine. Personally I often start in vector and then switch to raster when I *must* because I need complex blends/fades/shading or images. If I had to make a choice, I'd choose a raster app like PS or Gimp. They can be a bit slower and require more computing power, but they are more versatile.

[Gilrock]

This attachment was all created in Inkscape except I didn't draw the Daphne in the bubble cause I found that file.  Its really easy to do the gradients to create the shading which I think makes all the difference.

[bperkins01]

This attachment was all created in Inkscape except I didn't draw the Daphne in the bubble cause I found that file.  Its really easy to do the gradients to create the shading which I think makes all the difference.

Nice work - Someday I hope I have the stamina to learn to do that..  I don't have an artistic bone in my body...   

[jdbailey1206]

javery do you have an idea what your side art and panel will look like?  Something that exists right now?  ie  I want it to look like DK artwork.

[javeryh]

javery do you have an idea what your side art and panel will look like?  Something that exists right now?  ie  I want it to look like DK artwork.

I think so - no side art.  Just the CP.  I really like the simplicity of the Blip panel so I'm trying to do something similar.  No actual art I guess - just some lines around the controls and some text.

My only hesitation is the lack of color but I have woodgain panels for sides with a dynamic marquee so I don't want to commit to a color scheme and black and white are pretty neutral so I think it will work.  I may add some white lines or something to break up the black or maybe just make the outlines thicker.  I've been messing around with Inkscape all morning...

Gilrock - that art look amazing!  I don't think I'd be able to do something like that but it is definitely inspiring.

[meyer980]

My opinion is that for something like a control panel, making and editing shapes is much easier with a vector program (Illustrator, Inkscape). I personally use Photoshop and Illustrator all the time, often in combination, but for arcade stuff pretty much Illustrator only.

[mahuti]

My opinion is that for something like a control panel, making and editing shapes is much easier with a vector program (Illustrator, Inkscape)

I usually start making vector drawings by combining/joining/merging basic shapes like circles, squares until it looks like something. Unlike Illustrator merging of shapes is not possible in Photoshop (without turning the thing into a raster layer), but it IS possible to 1. draw basic shapes like rectangles with rounded edges easily 2. use the pen tool to make whatever complex shape you'd like. So, my method has to change a bit in Photoshop, but doing the basic squares and things are really easy. Tracing of objects is easy too, but the fastest way of making very sharp & accurate art (combining objects) isn't possible with PS.

[javeryh]

Well so far I created the canvas the right size (18" x 6.5"), placed some guide lines 0.75" in from the sides and the bottom (can't drill there) and placed the joystick, buttons and spinner (not sold on the spinner yet).  I also started labeling everything using a font I imported.  Not bad for my first day.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to draw lines and shapes - it's not intuitive - from what I can tell, I'm not drawing lines but rather drawing an equation which allows the objects to scale infinitely.  OK, fine.  I wish there was an "offset" tool or something.  Like if I have some buttons and I want to make rings around one of them that is easy - I can duplicate the circle and then enlarge it.  But if I want to put one outline around several buttons I can't.  I'm sure I'll get it.

[mahuti]

But if I want to put one outline around several buttons I can't.  I'm sure I'll get it.

Sounds like what I mentioned about merging shapes. You draw several circles, merge them... depending on the tool, you may end up with all the overlapping lines deleted, or they might be turned into grouped shapes or... ? If you're using Inkscape....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxhR9aT6crU&feature=youtu.be

[javeryh]

But if I want to put one outline around several buttons I can't.  I'm sure I'll get it.

Sounds like what I mentioned about merging shapes. You draw several circles, merge them... depending on the tool, you may end up with all the overlapping lines deleted, or they might be turned into grouped shapes or... ? If you're using Inkscape....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxhR9aT6crU&feature=youtu.be

Thanks - that video was helpful.  I managed to make the outline.  It's hard to make small adjustments though.  Once the outline is complete and I clicked "Union" I need to be OK with the thickness because as far as I can tell there is no easy way to play with the shape (making it bigger or smaller doesn't work due to the multiple center points from multiple buttons). 

[mahuti]

making it bigger or smaller doesn't work due to the multiple center points from multiple buttons). 

Yeah, that's going to be a pretty common problem regardless of the app. That said, you could probably copy the object into another layer and hide the layer... so that you have a backup. just make changes, merge, and then start over from the backup if need be.

[javeryh]

making it bigger or smaller doesn't work due to the multiple center points from multiple buttons). 

Yeah, that's going to be a pretty common problem regardless of the app. That said, you could probably copy the object into another layer and hide the layer... so that you have a backup. just make changes, merge, and then start over from the backup if need be.

I've already been doing stuff off the canvas and then adding it in!  I need to do the rings over though.  Too big.

[Howard_Casto]

making it bigger or smaller doesn't work due to the multiple center points from multiple buttons). 

Yeah, that's going to be a pretty common problem regardless of the app. That said, you could probably copy the object into another layer and hide the layer... so that you have a backup. just make changes, merge, and then start over from the backup if need be.

Yup.  That's why you save as a photoshop document and save to png right before going to the printers. 

[mahuti]

Looks good so far.

Photoshop/Illustrator has a feature called "outline stroke" which I've always used for stuff like this. I'd make an object, then set a "stroke-outside" as large as I wanted, then use the "outline stroke" function to turn the stroke into an object (strokes don't scale, which can be both good or bad depending on the context) and then do an merge.

Don't know how to do that in Inkscape or Gimp... 

Yup.  That's why you save as a photoshop document and save to png right before going to the printers. 

FWIW, I tend to save as TIFF, rather than PNG:

1. because TIFF files can store a variety of Photoshop layers
2. because they can contain CMYK and LAB color data, unlike PNG, which doesn't (or at least hasn't for most of my career... things change, I dunno) If I'm going to print I usually convert my images to work in CMYK colorspace while I'm creating them so that I can get a better on-screen representation of the final color output. RGB has a wider color spectrum than CMYK, so images stored in RGB look brighter than can actually be produced with ink. 
3. also I tend to work in 16 bit color... which for most people is probably irrelevant, but useful when doing multiple edits to an image with smooth gradients to keep them from looking banded from all the abuse.


For most folks I don't think it makes a hell of a lot of difference. Still sometimes useful to know. PNG is smaller (usually) so I like it for that.

[destial]

If you can I recommend soft proofing your files prior to sending them off to the printer. I've caught a few color mistakes that would have caused me to need reprints of other decal work. The print shop you send the artwork to should be able to tell you in general terms their capabilities like color space srgb vs Adobe rgb. And calibrate your monitor... There are a ton of tutorials for both.

+1 for using tiff for print jobs as well. They're larger but lossless.

[thatpurplestuff]

Looks good so far.

Photoshop/Illustrator has a feature called "outline stroke" which I've always used for stuff like this. I'd make an object, then set a "stroke-outside" as large as I wanted, then use the "outline stroke" function to turn the stroke into an object (strokes don't scale, which can be both good or bad depending on the context) and then do an merge.

Don't know how to do that in Inkscape or Gimp... 

Yup.  That's why you save as a photoshop document and save to png right before going to the printers. 

FWIW, I tend to save as TIFF, rather than PNG:

1. because TIFF files can store a variety of Photoshop layers
2. because they can contain CMYK and LAB color data, unlike PNG, which doesn't (or at least hasn't for most of my career... things change, I dunno) If I'm going to print I usually convert my images to work in CMYK colorspace while I'm creating them so that I can get a better on-screen representation of the final color output. RGB has a wider color spectrum than CMYK, so images stored in RGB look brighter than can actually be produced with ink. 
3. also I tend to work in 16 bit color... which for most people is probably irrelevant, but useful when doing multiple edits to an image with smooth gradients to keep them from looking banded from all the abuse.


For most folks I don't think it makes a hell of a lot of difference. Still sometimes useful to know. PNG is smaller (usually) so I like it for that.

Yup, prefer TIFF here as well.  It's crazy how many people don't realize that TIFFs can contain layer data!

[UnclearHermit]

A Photoshop subscription, short term, does at least make the tools more accessible than they'd be at full price.  But don't underestimate learning curve.  A month would be fine to create something if you already know the tools, but learning from videos etc. all takes time so I'd say a couple of months (unless you have a lot of free time!) is more realistic.

javeryh - I notice there's white in your design.  I'm not really familiar with the printing process but does that mean the CPO will have to have a white backing with your printed "white" areas actually transparent?

[javeryh]

A Photoshop subscription, short term, does at least make the tools more accessible than they'd be at full price.  But don't underestimate learning curve.  A month would be fine to create something if you already know the tools, but learning from videos etc. all takes time so I'd say a couple of months (unless you have a lot of free time!) is more realistic.

javeryh - I notice there's white in your design.  I'm not really familiar with the printing process but does that mean the CPO will have to have a white backing with your printed "white" areas actually transparent?

White is going to be solid white - not transparent.  If I can figure out how to make something transparent, I might try messing around with LEDs but I haven't thought about it too much. 

Can a printer actually print "transparent"? Meaning, does the blank material they print on start out as transparent or white?

EDIT: might as well upload attempt #2 here to get more eyeballs on it in case anyone has suggestions on how to improve it:



I do not like the arrows around the spinner - tried to make them match the arrows around the joystick but I think I need to try again.

[mahuti]

There are methods of reverse printing onto "film". Normal printing is a 4-color process... Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black. When printing onto a transparent film, they back the entire thing with white, unless you specify certain areas to be transparent.

So... at a normal printer, they print on some kind of paper... unless you sought out some kind of transparent process, you won't accidentally get it. It's not cheap.

[javeryh]

There are methods of reverse printing onto "film". Normal printing is a 4-color process... Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black. When printing onto a transparent film, they back the entire thing with white, unless you specify certain areas to be transparent.

So... at a normal printer, they print on some kind of paper... unless you sought out some kind of transparent process, you won't accidentally get it. It's not cheap.

OK... so something like gameongrafix is likely just going to print on white.  That's who I usually use for this stuff. 

I made some tweaks:

[mahuti]

gameongrafix prints on a thick paper that is slightly off-white and then runs some kind of laminate over the ink (I think). Definitely not a transparent base.

[Howard_Casto]

Looks good so far.

Photoshop/Illustrator has a feature called "outline stroke" which I've always used for stuff like this. I'd make an object, then set a "stroke-outside" as large as I wanted, then use the "outline stroke" function to turn the stroke into an object (strokes don't scale, which can be both good or bad depending on the context) and then do an merge.

Don't know how to do that in Inkscape or Gimp... 

Yup.  That's why you save as a photoshop document and save to png right before going to the printers. 

FWIW, I tend to save as TIFF, rather than PNG:

1. because TIFF files can store a variety of Photoshop layers
2. because they can contain CMYK and LAB color data, unlike PNG, which doesn't (or at least hasn't for most of my career... things change, I dunno) If I'm going to print I usually convert my images to work in CMYK colorspace while I'm creating them so that I can get a better on-screen representation of the final color output. RGB has a wider color spectrum than CMYK, so images stored in RGB look brighter than can actually be produced with ink. 
3. also I tend to work in 16 bit color... which for most people is probably irrelevant, but useful when doing multiple edits to an image with smooth gradients to keep them from looking banded from all the abuse.


For most folks I don't think it makes a hell of a lot of difference. Still sometimes useful to know. PNG is smaller (usually) so I like it for that.

Yup, prefer TIFF here as well.  It's crazy how many people don't realize that TIFFs can contain layer data!

Well I'm aware you can save layers but it doesn't preserve stuff like photoshop layer styles and font layers (still as a font) right?

[mahuti]

it doesn't preserve stuff like photoshop layer styles and font layers (still as a font) right?

TIFF does preserve Photosohp layer styles and TIFF also stores font layers as editable text (not flattened). TIFF can even save multiple page information (similar to a PDF) but it's a feature that's not as widely supported as most of the rest so I don't recommend it. Saving as a PSD is really useful if you're going to use the document in some other Adobe product like InDesign, where you can show and hide PSD layers within InDesign itself. InDesign can't really handle object layers in anything other than PSD.

That said, if the choice is between PNG (not PSD) and TIFF when providing a file to a service bureau, I tend to prefer to provide a flattened TIFF saved in CMYK (which PNG can't manage.) You could always convert to CMYK and then to PNG-RGB and let them convert back to CMYK at the service bureau, but I prefer to provide as close to the final file as possible so it doesn't get screwed up. For instance, I provide a specific color for the black in my images... "rich black" which is (depending on who you ask) Cyan 60% Magenta 40% Yellow 40% Black 100%... rather than just Black at 100%. Rich black looks darker (richer) when printed, so I save my stuff with rich black and provide it to the printer like that rather than counting on them doing that. TIFF can handle it.

This is why I'm going on about the difference between RGB and CMYK . The vividness in the RGB version of one of my control panel files is great on screen, but it just can't be printed with that vividness using a typical 4-color process or on any kind of inkjet/laser (which basically use 4-colors most of the time). It's better to see the final output before sending out to get it printed, than being surprised when it comes back all dull looking and faded compared to the provided file. Here's a comparison image. Top is RGB, bottom is CMYK.

[javeryh]

gameongrafix prints on a thick paper that is slightly off-white and then runs some kind of laminate over the ink (I think). Definitely not a transparent base.

How would you send over the attached file to GameOnGrafix?  They have a spot on the ordering page to upload a file - if I do that with a saved .svg file (with the right layers showing) will that work or do I need to export it to .png or something?  I want as good of a print as they can produce...

[Howard_Casto]

With any printing service I've found it best to call/email and ask them which files they prefer.  If you send them something they aren't used to working with it increases the odds of a poor print. 

[mahuti]

From their FAQ on custom art:

You can create your own marquee or side art using one of the samples at http://vectorlib.free.fr/. Artwork you create must be the correct size and it should be at least 200dpi, but 266-300dpi is preferred OR a Vector file using Illustrator. Leave the document in RGB mode which has a broader color range. Do not create a file in a lower dpi and then convert it to 300dpi, this only makes the file bigger and does not enhance the resolution. It will still come out blocky and actually worse then if you left it at a lower dpi. Start creating your image at 200 or 300 dpi at full size, in other words, if you are creating a 300dpi marquee that will print at 26×8” create it at that size. Design your artwork with the Marquee retainer in mind and leave a 1/2”-3/4” on the top and bottom empty.The file should be a .psd photoshop or .ai adobe illustrator file, or a .tif if using another program such as paintshop pro or Coreldraw.   

By the way, whenever I have work done with them I fill in the max amount of space... if I have extra room I'll add extra art to get printed at the same time. Make sure to leave any extra space that you'll need (like to wrap around for cpo)

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah that's good advice all around.  Like if you get bezel graphics printed fill that hole in the center with more art.