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Author Topic: X-Men 4-player [done]  (Read 8167 times)

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edekoning

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X-Men 4-player [done]
« on: May 20, 2020, 04:13:55 pm »


Finished pics: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,162864.msg1737551.html#msg1737551
Web album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SqWezfvQcRZZTTg99




Time for a new build 8)

Taking into account some of the lessons I have learned from my previous builds. The main ones being, that I only seem to play two types of games (shmups and beat'em ups), and having endless game lists to scroll through is just stupid. To that end I plan to build 2-3 cabs (moving to a bigger house does have its perks ;)), each targeting a specific type of games, limited to 10-20 games that I really enjoy playing. Based on nostalgia and personal preference I decided to build/reproduce cabs that to to me embody best a certain genre. So first up is a 4 player X-Men cab, using plans from https://www.classicarcadecabinets.com/x-men-4-player.html :cheers:


Using SketchUp I tried to rebuild the cabinet from the plans. This was not that easy, as some parts just made no sense to me, especially the control box. So after lots of googling for images of actual cabs and some tweaking I had a 3D model I could work with.

I am planning to use plywood and pocket-screws on this build (first time for both), and made some changes to the design to accommodate this. The back of the original cabinet is flush with the side panels, but I felt that was not a great idea when using pocket screws due to the t-molding slot. So I pushed the back panels 1/2" inwards. On my Magneto build, I had 4 wheels underneath, but that meant the cabinet never stayed firmly in place. So here I wanted to use two wheels at the back, and two leg levelers at the front. The wheels allow me to tilt the cabinet and easily move it around. However, due to the now recessed back panels, I will need to put some wood spacers in between. I also plan to add some handles at the top of the back.

For the screen I will use a rotated 43" 4K screen, that should give me a usable 25" 4:3 area. A 43" monitor is probably easier to use but also twice as expensive. Apparently there is even an Eizo 26.5" 1:1 PC monitor, but that is 4 times as expensive and I can't find any information on input lag and such. Anyway I bought this fairly cheap LG TV, and it works just fine for beat'em ups. Fitting such a massive screen is indeed possible, but again required some small tweaking to the design, and coming up with a nice way to mount the bezel.

Final thing of note is the marquee area. According to the plans the top panel has a groove that holds the marquee in place. The front edge of the top panel actually has t-molding. The speaker panel uses a more standard marquee holder. From the plans it is unclear to me if the groove in the top panel is at an angle or not, to offset the angle of the top panel itself. Looking online I see all xmen cabs also use a standard marquee holder at the top. So I'm not quite sure how I will go about this area just yet.

Anyway time for some pictures.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 06:20:13 am by edekoning »

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2020, 04:26:56 pm »
I like your design! 

That looks great.  Please build this.   :)

Mike A

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2020, 04:44:23 pm »
That cab is designed for a 25 inch CRT. No modifications needed.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2020, 04:47:40 pm »
I got rid of my previous router as its depth-stop mechanism was broken, so it would jump back up at random times, if you let your attention slip. After the third time I screwed up a work piece because of that  :angry: I decided to just buy a new and hopefully better one. But buying tools is like going to a candy shop, where you convince yourself you really also need this other great power tool ::) So I ended buying a Makita rt0700cx3j router, and a Makita sp6000j1x track saw  :applaud: The router is a small palm router, that comes with a fixed/plunge and tilt base. I also bought an accessory so I can use it with the track that came with the saw.

Next I ordered 3 sheets of 3/4" plywood, and 2 sheets of 1/2" mdf online. As this cab is so fat, I can only cut one side from one sheet, so its actually quite an expensive cab to build in wood terms.
With the mdf and some strips of pine wood, I build a simple worktable that I can easily move inside/outside. Using the track saw I cut up one sheet in smaller pieces at the width of the cabinet's panels. Using the router I made sure all the panels are the exact same width. I must say that using this track saw is just great, so easy, and it can even cut at angles.

The second sheet of mdf is used to cut a template of the side panels. All went perfectly until the final corner (below the speaker panel). I was probably sleeping or something as I started to cut into the panel on the wrong side of the curve :banghead:. Tried to patch it up with putting saw dust and woodglue into the cut. After letting it dry for a day, tried to re-cut that corner, but it was not strong enough, so it did not end up pretty. In the end I used the template and router copied the shape over to the ply wood, except for that corner. Next I took a scrap piece of wood, drilled a hole in it with the same diameter as the corer, and router copied that instead.


edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2020, 04:50:01 pm »
I like your design! 

That looks great.  Please build this.   :)

I'm on it!

That cab is designed for a 25 inch CRT. No modifications needed.

Yeah but the screen I am using is not a crt and will extend into the control panel box, so ...

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2020, 05:04:27 pm »
Typically I take over a year to complete a build. This time I hope to be done sooner, and have actually already some quite some work. Just saved up the progress so I have something to show you guys  :cheers:

Worked on some of the back panels. As I mentioned before I added handles to the top back panel. The wheels in the lower panel required this odd looking cutout, for which I used a jig saw. I also cut a hole for the power switch, which ended up being slightly too big in one corner, so I still need to add some wood filler there. The big hole is for ventilation. First did a rough cut with the jig-saw, then nailed some small wood strips on the back, so I could use the router with a flush trim bit to get a nice looking hole. Finally added a chamfered edge, as that makes everything look classy  8)

I must say that I hate using the jigsaw as the blade always seems to warp, causing non straight cuts. What I mean with this is that one side of the wood the blade follows the cut line pretty much nicely, but the other side of the panel, its all over the place. So one side looks great, and the other one a mess. Might be I just have a crappy jigsaw, I mean my router from the same brand was also pretty crappy  :dunno

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2020, 05:16:35 pm »
Previously I always used pine battons on the inside, but the pine is never ever straight, which drives me nuts. So I decided instead to put my track saw to good use and cut some ply wood strips. These are all nice and straight. Pre-drilled some holes in them.

Had some metal mesh left over from my Magneto cab that was already spray-painted mat black. This will be used for the ventilation whole on the lower back panel.

Also worked on the top panel, which has an angled cut at the back. Router copied a hole for the power button, and again added a chamfered edge.

Finally cut the mdf template in half. The lower half will be used to cut the monitor bezel from.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2020, 05:28:47 pm »
Jeez I keep getting these errors on random pictures I want to upload:

Quote
Your attachment has failed security checks and cannot be uploaded. Please consult the forum administrator.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2020, 07:09:43 pm »
Jeez I keep getting these errors on random pictures I want to upload:

Quote
Your attachment has failed security checks and cannot be uploaded. Please consult the forum administrator.
The updated forum software has been throwing false positives on some images.   :banghead:

Several people have sidestepped the problem by cropping or resizing the image by 3-5%.


Scott

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 08:59:43 am »
I feel your jigsaw pain.  I always cut well inside where I need to be and then tidy up with the router.  It's the blade getting hot and bending.

Jeez I keep getting these errors on random pictures I want to upload:

Quote
Your attachment has failed security checks and cannot be uploaded. Please consult the forum administrator.

I used to get that all the time.  Often just opening up in an image editor, cropping, saving STILL gives the error.  But a resize tool seems to fix it.  If you're a Windows user they've recently added one to PowerToys, so you can just right-click images and choose Resize.  https://github.com/microsoft/PowerToys/releases/tag/0.18.0

Mike A

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2020, 09:59:01 am »
I just batch resize my images. It take a few extra seconds but it solves the problem.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2020, 10:18:55 am »
Thanks for the tips, the resizing trick worked.

More work on the top panel, this time the ventilation slots. Notice my awesome router track adapter, that made this so much easier to do. I clamped two strips of pine to restrict the router movement to just the area of the ventilation slot. I think I took 3-4 passes on each slot, to not put too much stress on the router. Added a very small chamfered edge, just make it look nicer. Really happy with results on this panel.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2020, 10:28:54 am »
Time to cut the t-molding slot. Wanted to use the fixed router base for this, as its so much easier to adjust it to the proper depth, and then not have to worry about it anymore. Unfortunately that base is really small, especially compared to the large router bit. It tilts way too easily. So I had ordered some alternative bigger base plate online. But after waiting 2 months on shipping I gave up on this. Instead I decided on using the plunge base, with the track adapter installed. This gives a much larger surface area that sits on top of the work piece, greatly increasing overall stability. Anyway, I did the sides panels and the top panel. I had some left over piece of black t-molding that I cut in 4 smaller pieces. I installed those pieces at the bottom corners of the side panels. This way I can easily move these panels around, without fear of damaging them.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 10:33:01 am by edekoning »

Mike A

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2020, 10:29:15 am »
Quote
Added a very small chamfered edge, just make it look nicer.

That's a nice touch.

Quote
I think I took 3-4 passes on each slot, to not put too much stress on the router.

I see too many people try to muscle through on one pass. Nice work. :applaud:


bperkins01

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2020, 10:38:23 am »
Nice woodworking all around  :applaud:
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 03:11:41 pm »
It won't be long before I can start putting parts of this cab together. As I am using plywood and pocket screws, I should be able to assemble everything and then disassemble it again. Something I would not do with MDF due to stripping the screw holes. So I was wondering, should I:
  • assemble (dry fit), disassemble, prime, paint, reassemble
  • assemble, prime, paint
  • prime, paint, assemble
  • prime, assemble, paint
Previously I have always gone with option 2, but sanding and painting the inside of an assembled cabinet is such a pain. Any opinions/suggestions?
 

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 11:44:29 pm »
Iíd say a dry fit is the way to go, unless youíre feeling impatient, itís a good way to catch any issues and do the sanding.  Disassemble and prime before glueing and screwing then final paint.  I think youíll find it very satisfying assembling it when all the panels and screws fit perfectly. Just my opinion, nice work so far.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2020, 01:44:15 am »
I use these for MDF with a very tight hole, clamps and epoxy no issue so far.

With MDF I've tried so many hardware store paints primers/fillers etc and still had to do sanding/painting/spray painting etc pain in the arse.

Found this paint and so far I have not needed to prime/sand, just 3 coats minimum of spray paint and smooth as a babies bottom. But since its ply you might need to prime never used ply.

See example here

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2020, 02:29:10 am »
Added a very small chamfered edge, just make it look nicer. Really happy with results on this panel.

I really like that look.  This is the same style vents I was looking to make.  But you made it even nicer.  Can you share more detail to a novice on your technique?

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 09:03:21 am »
I personally like to dry fit and assemble as few times as possible.

Its easier to prime and repair dings when its a pile of smaller pieces - unless you get paint where the glue goes - which you don't want.

- dry fit, prime, assemble, paint   

But that even depends on your colors..  If you have to tape off stuff after its assembled - then doing it when its in pieces is simpler.

And a final option is finish paint, assemble,  then add a touchup coat to the finish since it will inevitably get dinged up..






My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2020, 10:44:18 am »
Yeah, first doing a dry fit makes sense, as I might also want/need to add/glue some additional pieces of wood, which is more work/annoying when everything is already painted.

Added a very small chamfered edge, just make it look nicer. Really happy with results on this panel.

I really like that look.  This is the same style vents I was looking to make.  But you made it even nicer.  Can you share more detail to a novice on your technique?

Use a pencil to clearly draw out the vents you want to cut.
Make sure the slots have the same height as the diameter of the router bit that you will use; I used a 1/2" diameter straight router bit.
I used the track (from my track saw) to restrict the movement of my router, so it could only move left and right across the vent.
I also clamped two strips of wood to further limit the horizontal movement to just the area of the vent I need to cut.
Alternatively, you can nail or clamp some pieces of wood onto the work piece to restrict the router's movement.
In that case, make sure the router bit has a top bearing, so it can follow/copy those clamped/nailed pieces of wood.
Take your time, don't rush and take multiple passes.
Once done, use a 45 degrees chamfer router bit with a bottom bearing. The bearing will ride the inside of the slot.
Make sure this bearing is the same diameter or smaller as the width of the the slot, otherwise it won't fit :)

If you scroll up a few posts, there are pictures that clearly show the chamfer router bit I used, and also how I used some nailed woodstrips to guide the straight router bit.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2020, 11:00:31 am »
I added the battons to the side panels.

In order to get close to identical results on both side panels, I made some simple helpers for positioning the battons at the correct distance from the edge.
All panels are offset either 1/2", 1", or 1.5" from the sides. The panels themselves are 3/4". Add those up and you have the position of the battons. So I cut some wood strips with with the same widths as the offsets I needed. Next, I glued on some small pieces of wood to the edge. Then I just place this thing on the side panel against the edge, and clamp it down. Next place/clamp the batton snug against it, drill the holes for the screws, and glue/screw it in place.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2020, 11:10:47 am »
Now that the battons are in place, I could finally measure and cut the bottom panel.

Even though I have a universal router circle cutting jig, I could not use it for the bottom panel, as it cannot cut such a small circle. Instead I used a jigsaw. By no means a perfect circle, but good enough for the bottom.

I also cut these additional spacers for the bottom and lower back panels. These are needed for mounting the wheels. Unfortunately, I forgot that the spacers for the back panel need to be 10mm and not 18mm ... so I plan to just glue them on the back panel, and then route away 8mm. As its raining today, that will have to wait till next weekend. Once that is done I think I can start screwing most of the panels in place. Its only the speaker panel, monitor mount, monitor bezel, and control box that still need wood working.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2020, 02:12:32 pm »
If you scroll up a few posts, there are pictures that clearly show the chamfer router bit I used, and also how I used some nailed woodstrips to guide the straight router bit.

Thanks.  I have zero experience with a router.  Mine doesn't have a plunge cut feature on it.  Will that be a problem?  I assume when you say make multiple passes, you mean start at a shallower depth and with multiple passes you're going deeper with each?  I got a small set of bits online for it, not really knowing what I need.  Hopefully one of them is a chamfer bit.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2020, 03:11:26 pm »
Thanks.  I have zero experience with a router.  Mine doesn't have a plunge cut feature on it.  Will that be a problem?  I assume when you say make multiple passes, you mean start at a shallower depth and with multiple passes you're going deeper with each?  I got a small set of bits online for it, not really knowing what I need.  Hopefully one of them is a chamfer bit.

Ah that complicates matters. I would probably drill a hole first with the exact diameter as your router bit. Then place the router with the bit inside the hole. Be careful when switching it on though, as the router might jump when it starts and catches the wood. Less of a risk if your router has a slow start feature. Anyway I suggest to try this out first on a spare piece of wood.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2020, 06:12:36 pm »
I remember your Magneto build, I think I read it all the way through when searching build logs to learn from.   The woodworking is coming along nicely, that's such a classic design and it looks like you are faithfully recreating it. 

You almost had me looking at a router for the track that I have but too expensive for mine.  I also have that Makita, and I saw you mention that you already have a circle jig but that it is limited on size of cuts.  I bought this one that is designed for the Makita, and it can do any size you want (to a limit of course).  I enjoy not having fixed positions so that I can create any size circle.  A little more setup, but worth it in my opinion.  It can also really help to balance the router from tipping on a lot of cuts, here's a pic for reference:



Here's a link in case you are interested : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32923043776.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dIXunNl

Subscribed to the build, looking forward to seeing it come together.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2020, 09:08:06 am »
Here's a link in case you are interested : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32923043776.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dIXunNl

I bought the same one. Only took 2 months to deliver ... Anyways I really like it, as the larger base really helps stabilize the router when doing edge profiles or cutting a t-molding slot.


It was such a pain to make the bracket that holds the screen. The screen has 3 different bezel widths, and the back (when rotated) due to the speakers is not flat. So I has to route out a 10cm wide 12mm deep channel. As that only leaves 6mm of wood, and the screen being 8KG, I decided to add another piece of wood for additional strength.



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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2020, 09:38:58 am »
Time to start putting the cab together. This went pretty smooth, and only the TV bracket gave me some small issues.
Hmm maybe I went a bit overboard with pocket screws on the bottom panel  :lol but seeing as this cab is super heavy, I did not want to take any chances.

At this time I was not sure if I wanted to add coin doors, hence the front panel is still solid. Once I decided that I did want them, they were sold out in all EU shops that I know off, or are priced insanely high, and many US shops have stopped shipping internationally. In the end I bought two via the EU office of Suzo-Happ. This was a very painful process as it took 2 weeks just to get an account, before I was able to order anything :banghead: Delivery times are 6-8 weeks from US to EU Suzo-Happ office :o so it will still take a week or 6 before they will arrive at my doorstep  :angry:

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2020, 09:42:30 am »
Test fitted the screen.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2020, 09:51:56 am »
The bezel as always is a tricky part to get right. In this case the screen is much larger than the bezel, so I spent ages measuring everything. Even after cutting I had to use the router to shave a off 0.5 mm here and there. Finally added a chamfered edge. I am really happy with the end result.

For keeping the bezel in place I decided to use a small piece of wood, with a 45 degree angle on the back, onto which the bezel and plexiglass will rest. The front of this wood piece, has an insert nut for fastening the control panel box to the cabinet. Works pretty well.

Note that the plexiglass is some scratched leftover piece I had laying around. Its just for test fitting. Its also way too dark as this TV is not that bright. So I will probably go with either clear or 20% tinted plexiglass.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2020, 10:06:58 am »
Next up was the speaker panel. Took me several hours to draw all outlines and route out all those channels. I also took about 6-7 router passes, to minimize the amount of force needed to apply to the router, thus yielding smoother results and less chance of screw-ups.

The channels form a 5" hole, so I wanted to by slightly larger speakers. Instead of PC speakers that I would normally use, I opted for car speakers. Here in the Netherlands they are almost all either 5"or 6.5", and its never clear if that is the size of the speaker cone, or if that also includes the mounting gasket. So in the end I just bought a fairly cheap 6.5" pair.

I wanted to mount the speaker panel 1mm above the plexiglass, so I am still able to remove the plexiglass and bezel without issue. To achieve this, I just taped some 1mm thick rings to the lower edge of the speaker panel. Now the cab is really started to take shape  8)

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2020, 03:51:09 pm »
Looks great.  Your craftsmanship is high level and you must be using some seriously sharp blades.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2020, 12:17:44 am »
This is more evidence that vertical mount is the way to go for flat panels. It's the only way you can get a good visible area without making the cabinet absurdly wide.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2020, 07:14:43 am »
This build checks most of my boxes.

Nice work. :cheers:

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2020, 01:36:53 pm »
Thanks guys!

Regarding the router bits. I use ones in the 25-35 euro range. I also clean them regularly, usually after every separate task. Cutting all these fabricated woods, tends to clog up the bits with glue and crap.
The most important thing I learned is that you need to ensure to not remove too much material in one go. Just take your time and do many passes.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2020, 02:14:16 pm »
As I made too many mistakes cutting wood, I no longer had a piece large enough for the back door. Instead of buying a new piece of wood, I decided on making due with the many scrap pieces of wood I had left. So seven (!) pieces of wood and many hours later, this is the result. Looks pretty good.

I still need to route away 0.5mm from one side, as the fit is pretty snug now, so after painting I expect it will no longer fit.

The top hole is for a cam lock. I still need to add a wood strip to the top panel at the back for the lock to attach to. And another strip to the bottom of the door to hold onto the lower panel at the back. Otherwise the door will just fall out ;)

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2020, 12:22:00 pm »
I am thinking about the control panel now, and am not sure what to do.
Games such as X-Men, TMNT, Simpsons did not have Start buttons.
Instead any regular button would function as Start.
Most other games, such as Alien vs Predator do require a separate Start button.
So, I can either:
  • Add black Start buttons to the top the control panel; not a fan of this option, as placement wise one of them will end up obstructing the artwork.
  • Add black Start buttons to the front of the control panel box; this will work fine, but might get awkward when hands go searching for these when playing with 4 people ;)
  • Write a simple AutoHotKey script to auto press start shortly a coin was inserted.
I am tempted to go with the last option, as I can always add buttons later (option 2) if that ends up causing issues or annoyances.

Any thoughts on this?

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2020, 01:50:40 pm »
I am thinking about the control panel now, and am not sure what to do.
Games such as X-Men, TMNT, Simpsons did not have Start buttons.

Interesting considerations.  I was contemplating how easy it would be to create a script at one point as well.  I also wondered if it would be possible to simply wire both the coin insert and start button together, perhaps with an analog delay circuit of some kind.

I can't remember for sure but some games like Golden Axe might not work as well with an auto start feature because I think you would bypass the character selection option and always go with the default.
Your easiest solution is probably to just add the buttons, but a consideration on that might be the size you choose.  Maybe the smaller diameter japanese style buttons will help?  Or if you wanna go nostalgic and drop a lot more per button, the atari volcano buttons I think are a smaller profile as well.  I was considering these for my system control buttons. Then maybe it fits better with your CP design?  If you wanna go with a side option, as long as you have a 1/2 inch lip or more around the control panel and are able to put the buttons up higher towards that lip, it might help prevent players from accidentally leaning against them and getting unexpected results.  I'm less of a fan of the side button look, but it certainly could work and you could even put them all on the sides of P3 / P4 so you wouldn't really see them from the front.  Assuming you want to support a wide array of games, I would favor the solution that best supports all instead of a select few like x-men / simpsons, but that's just me.  I'm also just offering thought points, not vetted advice ;) 

On a side note what kind / grade of plywood is that?  it looks really good!  I'm starting to shop to try to see what's available in my area.   :cheers:
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 03:09:05 pm by vertexguy »

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2020, 03:42:19 pm »
The script looks something like this, where the sleep interval needs to be tweaked for some games:

5::
Suspend, On
Send, 5
Suspend, Off
Sleep, 1000
Send, 1
return

Trying it out on some games, it worked really well. Only Final Fight needed a very long delay to work reliably for some reason.
Though if it does not work, its kinda annoying that you need to insert a new coin to try again ...

As I am trying to replicate the original x-men arcade cabinet including the art, I don't want to have any buttons on the control panel that either look out of place (as a volcano button would) or would obscure the artwork. However, I just realized that the control panel box overhangs quite a bit, so maybe I can put the start buttons on the underside instead. That way you can't accidentally hit them, and they will be pretty much out of sight. Hopefully I have some time this weekend to work on the control panel box, so I can try out this idea.

Wood wise I ordered 3 sheets of "18mm grenen multiplex, kwaliteit B/BB onbehandeld". According to Google, 'grenen' translates to 'pine' wood. Not sure if that is correct as 'vuren', which is cheap soft wood typically used for battons, also gets translated to 'pine'. Anyway I am not to enthusiastic about it. A single sheet is about 100,- euro, the edges splinter all the time, and the wood feels very 'hairy'. I am really fearing the painting phase. I bought some ply wood before in a local shop, and that was much better quality. Can't recall exactly, but I thought that was Birch.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2020, 01:54:34 pm »
If you are good with it being hidden, and if you presumably have 4 coin inserts, you could turn the coin returns into the start buttons.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2020, 02:11:21 pm »
If you are good with it being hidden, and if you presumably have 4 coin inserts, you could turn the coin returns into the start buttons.

I second this.  I do this for all of my cabinets now - still like reaching down to put in a quarter to play but this is the next best thing.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2020, 02:22:42 pm »
I third this.  I also designed some 3d printed microswitch holders for the coin reject buttons to make them easier to hook up and use.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4543135

If you are good with it being hidden, and if you presumably have 4 coin inserts, you could turn the coin returns into the start buttons.

I second this.  I do this for all of my cabinets now - still like reaching down to put in a quarter to play but this is the next best thing.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2020, 04:36:11 pm »
Woodworking is very well done edekoning, you can tell you put time into it.  Curious to know what amp you are going to use to drive the speakers as I have 4 ohm car speakers in mine as well.  Can't quite decide which direction to go.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2020, 02:42:18 pm »
Thanks for the coin door suggestions, I'll definitely check those out once I have actually received them (6 weeks and waiting  :'().

Curious to know what amp you are going to use to drive the speakers as I have 4 ohm car speakers in mine as well.

Seemed a lot of people go with a cheap Lepy amp, f.e. the LP-2020A. But those are not that easy to get over here. So I went with a slightly more expensive option: Fosi Audio TB10A: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Amplifier-Receiver-Integrated-Speakers/dp/B076P2VS9H. It does not go very loud, but I think it will be enough.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2020, 02:47:20 pm »
Worked on the control panel box, and securing it to the cabinet.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 02:49:56 pm by edekoning »

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2020, 02:55:38 pm »
The pocket screws that I used on the control panel box intersect with the The T-molding slot on the sides. I'll need to cut some notches in the T-molding to make it fit. This is also the reason why I pushed the back-panel on the cabinet 1/2" inwards.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2020, 03:25:39 pm »
Also did some other random things today.

The top back panel has carrying handles, but whenever I use them to tilt the cabinet, the wood bends a bit. This is due to the cab being so heavy, and the fact that the wood is only fastened on the sides. So I decided to add some additional pocket screws to attach it to the top panel. As the surfaces are angled here, I used screws meant for 0.5" thick wood, to ensure they won't come out the other side ;D

I added a wooden strip to bottom of that same panel, to support the back door. I then routed out some wood for the cam lock in the door to catch on to. To the bottom of the door I also added a wooden strip that catches behind the lower back panel. To remove the panel, just unlock, tilt backwards, and lift. Quite an easy way to make a removable panel for the occasional access to the cabinet insides. On my Magneto cab I used bolts and insert nuts to keep the removable back panels in place, but that was too annoying whenever you needed access.

The top panel also had to come off, as I completely forgot to create a 0.2" channel for the marque to sit in. Besides that I also added a small piece of wood for the power button on top.

And finally I cut some aluminium mesh to size for both the top and bottom ventilation holes. The mesh is spray painted black on one side.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2020, 03:42:09 pm »
Things Left to do are (somewhat in order):
  • Cut the Control panel top to size. Only needs a single angled cut at the back
  • Attach Control panel top to the control panel box using a piano hinge. and add magnets to hold it in place
  • Order side artwork, CPO and marquee
  • Start painting the everything satin black
  • Cut out holes for the two coin doors, but I will only do that once I have received the actual coin doors
  • Buy and attach an aluminium strip to the speaker panel, to hold the marquee in place and spray paint it black
  • Buy a clear sheet of plexi to cover the bezel
  • Determine how to mount the joysticks
  • Cut all needed holes in the control panel
  • Apply all artwork
  • Install all parts
  • Setup software
  • Enjoy a job well done and play some games 8)

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2020, 06:29:49 am »
Things Left to do are (somewhat in order):
  • Cut the Control panel top to size. Only needs a single angled cut at the back
  • Attach Control panel top to the control panel box using a piano hinge. and add magnets to hold it in place
  • Order side artwork, CPO and marquee
  • Start painting the everything satin black
  • Cut out holes for the two coin doors, but I will only do that once I have received the actual coin doors
  • Buy and attach an aluminium strip to the speaker panel, to hold the marquee in place and spray paint it black
  • Buy a clear sheet of plexi to cover the bezel
  • Determine how to mount the joysticks
  • Cut all needed holes in the control panel
  • Apply all artwork
  • Install all parts
  • Setup software
  • Enjoy a job well done and play some games 8)

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2020, 06:42:32 am »
Finally cut the control panel to size with an 48 degree angled cut. As you can see it still needs some sanding, to improve the fit. That will have to wait until I add some t-molding the cabinet, as the control panel will rest on that.

I also started painting, first layer of primer is done. I dropped the paint bucket on my shoes, which caused an absolute mess, and means I need to buy additional primer for the control panel :angry: The primer I got (Sigma S2U) is pretty good: easy to work with and great coverage. So I am hopeful to not have to prime it again after sanding.

I also ordered side art, cpo and marquee from https://www.szabosarcades.com/ --> production time 5-7 weeks, shipping time 3+ weeks  :'( My coin doors have also still to turn up after 7 weeks...

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2020, 06:47:33 am »
I am officially in painting hell :'(

The first layer of paint after priming went on nice and smooth, and looks terrific.
I applied a second layer of paint for all the visible parts: side panels, front panel, speaker panel, and a few other areas.
The results were horrible though, as it seemed my roller disintegrated, leaving small fabric parts all over the place.
I did not notice this during the painting, as when painting black on black its really hard to see what you are actually doing.

So more sanding and using a non-fabric roller for another layer of paint, and again the results were not great.
Dust specks everywhere! How the F@#$ did that happen, as I waited a week between sanding and painting, and used a damp cloth to wipe the cab and surrounding area multiple times, during that time.
Then I realized, I left the stick to stir the paint on the ground next to the cab when sanding, and never cleaned it afterwards. So that is most likely the source of contamination of my paint.

The front panel and speaker panel are luckily not that bad actually. It's only noticeable when you either feel the wood, or a bright light reflects off the surface. The side panels are worse and I fear for when I need to apply side art.
So I was wondering, can I just lightly wet sand the side panels with say 1000+ grit, and then apply the side art. Or does the side art stick better when I just repaint it after sanding?

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2020, 07:06:17 am »
I like your build.
Painting is a real PITA for me.
Dust, insects, roller patterns, you name it, i have seen it.
My last project I tried spray painting (using the ole rattle cans), it looked better than the rolled on paint, but I went through a bunch of cans of paint.
I am not now nor will ever be a good painter. LOL
I bought a cheap airless paint sprayer from harbor freight. That was 30 bucks wasted. It spit drops everywhere.
I dont think I have enough patience to do the job right.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2020, 08:10:37 am »
I am thinking of doing a small project after this just to try out laminating. As that would remove 95% of the painting process. Then again, that might have its own issues. Only one way to find out I guess.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2020, 08:34:52 am »
I used laminate on my jukeboxes, and I was very pleased with it.
Although it can be expensive, it looks real good, and no painting at all (on my projects anyway).

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2020, 09:27:15 am »
I am officially in painting hell :'(

Did you seal the plywood with something like Kilz?  It looks from the picture that the grain is soaking up the paint which means you didn't seal it.  Two coats of Kilz with sanding in between should leave you with a very nice surface and the grain barely visible (or not visible at all).  You can apply art directly to the primed surface or finish it with whatever top coat you want and it will come out looking nice.  It does take patience though.  I use a 3/8" nap roller with a high quality paint and sand in between each coat with 220 grit.  Wipe down the surface, make sure you are not painting in a dusty area or outside where insects and pollen can land on the surface, etc.  It takes practice but if you stick with it you will get great results.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2020, 11:08:45 am »
It looks like a Williams cab. You can see the woodgrain underneath the paint.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2020, 09:07:23 am »
No I did not seal the wood, just used one layer of primer followed by 2-4 layers of semi gloss oil based paint. Did not realize sealing wood was a thing, as I've also never done that on previous projects. Anyway the results are now acceptable.

So after 4 months of waiting  :'( I finally got the coindoors delivered. As I already painted everything, I used tape to out line what needed to be cut. The tape also protects the paint from scratching with the jigsaw.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2020, 09:21:22 am »
Still waiting on artwork, though it is supposedly in transit. Probably gonna take a few month before it arrives ... Not sure what is happening with international shipments from the US, but its painfully slow. Also lots of webshops just refuse to ship internally anymore.

Anyway, to pass the time I started mounting and wiring up as much as I could. I cut up an aluminium L-profile, and superglued that to the PSU, AMP. For the PC, I took some leftover plexi, and mounted the motherboard to it using standoffs. Then I just screwed that plexi plate to the side of the cab. All power cables are routed to the let side of the cab, all the PC/audio cables to the right. Wired up the coin door lights to the PSU, but the coin switches will have to wait until I start wiring up the control panel. I reused these two Philips led lamps that can be tilted for the marquee area. Added aluminium grills to all the ventilation holes, mounted the speakers, and added a fancy power button at top. Note that the AMP is mounted in such a way that I can easily access its controls via the right coin door.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2020, 09:30:17 am »
I also mounted the tv screen bezel, added the hidden start buttons beneath the control panel, and added black t-molding to the control panel box and to the front of the top panel. Not much left to do at this point, besides waiting for the artwork to arrive, at which point I still need to:
  • Drill and route the control panel top, to be able to mount the buttons and joysticks.
  • Apply control panel overlay and yellow t-molding.
  • Apply side art and yellow t-molding.
  • Install marque and aluminium retainer.
  • Wire up the controls

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2021, 08:37:02 am »
Worked on the software setup.

I chose around 20 beat'em-ups. There will be two game lists. One with all the english versions (parent roms), and one with all the 'best' versions (clones), which typically ends up being the japanese version.

AttractMode will be used as frontend: http://attractmode.org/
With a slightly modified version of the Arcadeflow theme to get a cleaner less cluttered look: http://forum.attractmode.org/index.php?topic=2068.0
The theme itself is just a smooth scrolling grid of screenshots with wheel images overlayed. Once selected the screenshot morphs into a video snap.

Still need to go through most games to check dipswitches, service menu's, and input mappings. To make sure stereo sound is enabled (which is not the default on all games!), coin doors are setup properly, max player counts are enabled, etc.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2021, 10:05:50 am »
ooo, I like that AttractMode theme. Still a tad cluttered for my taste, so curious to see how your final version comes out. Looking good!

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2021, 11:21:38 am »
amazing cabinet. dual coin door and everything just like the og xmen cab :cheers:

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2021, 12:21:17 am »
Looking Good.
The build seems to go flawlessly. There's some experience in building cabinets here :)
Looking forward to the finished product  :applaud:

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2021, 12:20:57 pm »
The theme itself is just a smooth scrolling grid of screenshots with wheel images overlayed. Once selected the screenshot morphs into a video snap.

Sick.  This is a really original look. 

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2021, 02:47:38 pm »
Thanks guys!

Its been a while since my last update, but I am pretty much done. Anyway the next thing I did was apply the artwork.

I ordered a full set from szabosarcades.com, as they appeared to be the only shop that sells correct side-art, and not some copy/paste variant based on the 6 player machine.

Marquee was perfect. Put the cab on its back, placed the marque in place, and marked where the marque retainer needed to go. This retainer is just a piece of aluminium that I had bent and then spray painted black. I did not have any nice looking black screws, so used the best looking non-black screws I had lying around. Will look for some nice black screws further down the line when shops are open again like normal (smurfin covid lockdown).

Applying side art to a cab really brings it to live. No more boring uni-color cab 8) I did decide to sand the side panels one last time with 2000 grit, to make it super smooth, before applying the side-art. Once done, there is still a slight hint of woodgrain visible when light the side-art at an angle, but I actually think that looks really nice. I then applied the yellow t-molding. Man that sure looks nice alongside the the black wood and blue background of the side-art!

Btw the packaging was the best I have experienced so far. Overall just very good quality, but I guess that is what you pay for. That and import taxes, even on shipping costs ...

Gilrock

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2021, 03:06:47 pm »
Hey you're still around.  Looks great!  Thanks for the NES Bartop as well not sure if you saw I used your design to make one with a wider monitor.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2021, 03:14:54 pm »
The control panel at this time still had no holes for the buttons and joysticks. As I could not find exact measurements online on where these needed to go. Only found the 2P Simpsons control panel details.
So the idea was to order the control panel overlay with precut holes. However, due to a misunderstanding from both sides, I received a CPO that had no holes and was 1mm too narrow.
I felt that 1mm was not worth it to just discard an otherwise perfectly fine CPO. That left the problem of where to drill the button holes.
Fortunately, Joe Szabo agreed to sent me the exact CPO outline, so I could drill the final holes :cheers:

I am using Ultimarc GoldLeaf pushbuttons, and Seimitsu LS-58-01 joysticks with slightly stiffer LS-56 springs. These joysticks need to be mounted 7.5mm below the top of the control panel to get the proper stick height. I ordered them with S-plates, to get an additional 5mm of mounting depth. I thought that would be enough to use insert nuts. Alas, the s-plate is bend such, that there is just no clearance, as the screw hole is too close to the bend. Annoyed with this, I set it aside and just started on routing out space for the joysticks. Its really precise work, so I created a template for the outer whole size, then cut some wood strips to fill up this outer whole, to get to the inner hole size. The I spent 4 hours router copying all those shapes in multiple passes. as it was winter at the time I had to do this inside ... what a mess, thank god I am not using MDF ... Once done, all the corners were rounded due to the router bits being cylindrical, duh, so I used a chisel to square up the inner corners. Then I tried fitting the s-plates, but none fit. So a couple off hours of sanding later, they all fit really tightly. As in you need to press them in really hard, and then you need a screw driver to get them out again. Because of that and due to not using MDF, I will just screw them in place.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2021, 03:27:50 pm »
Then I applied the control panel overlay, applied yellow t-molding, and mounted it on the control panel box via a piano hinge.

Next it was time to start adding and wiring up the controls. I decided to put the keyboard encoder on the base of the control panel box. Started wiring up the coindoors and hidden start buttons first. For the coindoors I decided using two 4-pin molex connectors, so I can easily disconnect them and remove the entire control panel box from the cabinet.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2021, 03:33:51 pm »
Time to wire up the controls  :applaud:

I am using the following color coding for all the wires:
white = coin
green = start
ground = black
blue button = blue
red button = red
yellow button = yellow

The joysticks come with their own rainbow colored wiring harness ... I also applied this tape, used to create water tight connections, to the joystick shafts to make sure the bal-tops remain in place, and don't accidentally unscrew during intense gameplay. Added two 6KG magnets to hold down the control firmly in place.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2021, 03:50:48 pm »
Spend many hours setting up the 25 games beat-em-ups in mame and AttractMode correctly. Things like, for 2 player games the middle two joysticks are used, setting up all the player counts, and coindoors correctly in all the service menus. This is also one on the reasons why a Cab with a full games list will never work. Sure you have a ton off games, but most of them are not configured correctly. I know, I have been there with my first Magneto cab. Live and learn I guess.

I actually have 2 games lists with the same games: one for guests with all English/World/Europe roms, and one for me and my gaming buddies with all the Japanese roms which are typically considered the better games, balance wise. For some reason many people can't handle Japanese, even if its just a BS intro you can skip  :dunno

Started playing it, and WTH is this lag, un-playable ... started updating bios/drivers, tried using regular usb keyboards/controllers ... nothing helped ... then it hit me. Months ago I setup the TV to enable low latency mode, game mode, etc, for a specific HDMI port. But I removed the screen when applying the side art. Afterwards I reinstalled all the hardware but connected the wrong HDMI port :banghead: Oh well it all works now :)

Sorry for all these crappy phone pics btw. Maybe I can create some proper pictures in the near future.

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2021, 03:52:10 pm »
Hey you're still around.  Looks great!  Thanks for the NES Bartop as well not sure if you saw I used your design to make one with a wider monitor.

Thanks!

No I missed your build, do you have a link?

vertexguy

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2021, 04:05:38 pm »
Dang dude!  This came out really nice!  Looks like an authentic reproduction to me.  Super clean wiring on the CP too!   That should be a great 4 player cab.
 :cheers:

Gilrock

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2021, 05:12:49 pm »
Hey you're still around.  Looks great!  Thanks for the NES Bartop as well not sure if you saw I used your design to make one with a wider monitor.

Thanks!

No I missed your build, do you have a link?

Here ya go....I actually built 2 identical copies at the same time....one went to my personal trainer who had talked about wanting some type of game machine and heard me talking about my stuff:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164745.0.html

P.S.  I started out with a Raspberry Pi in there and now I've swapped in a Mister FPGA and having a blast with that.

javeryh

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2021, 08:59:29 pm »
Good god this thing is perfect.  Damn.  Great job.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2021, 03:14:30 am »
This is a REALLY nice looking machine.

Colors look great together.
Why'd you kick me?
Where's your brain?

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2021, 09:50:44 am »
I used a master/slave powerstrip, so when the computer shutsdown everything else loses power. Likewise when the computer starts up, power is restored again to the marquee lights, screen, and audio amplifier. However, each time the speakers will emit a very load 'bang'. Besides being annoying I have no idea if that could damage the speakers or amp. Does anyone know what might cause this? For now I just switch off/on the amp manually as its reachable via one the of the coin doors.

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Re: X-Men 4-player
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2021, 02:20:24 pm »
My computer audio speakers do the same thing and I hadn't bothered to figure out why since I rarely turn them off.  As far as I can tell it's an energy surge that makes them pop.  Here's how one person explained it and gives hints to resolve.

When you switch off the power to your amplifier, its power supply will collapse asymmetrically which will cause the amplifierís output to be at an indeterminate state when it should remain at zero DC.

This results in the switch On or Off thump.

Most amplifiers will contain an output relay to negate this problem - the relay is energized or de-energized only when the amplifierís output is stable.

Here's a car audio post that looks like it covers both off and on pop issues with ways to mitigate.  Given a lot of this hobby seems to either use PC speakers or car audio amps and speakers i would hope this solves it.  Very interested to hear if this works for you

https://caraudioadvice.com/how-to-fix-amp-speaker-turn-on-turn-off-pop/
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 04:20:03 pm by vertexguy »

edekoning

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Re: X-Men 4-player [done]
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2021, 06:25:29 am »
Wow, thanks a lot for the link. Seems I have some testing to do, in order to find out the actual issue.

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Re: X-Men 4-player [done]
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2021, 10:52:21 pm »
Holy cow, absolutely beautiful  :cheers: