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Author Topic: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!  (Read 3538 times)

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vertexguy

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The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« on: December 31, 2019, 02:10:59 pm »
Hey everyone!

My first project post is finally here and I'm really excited to get started!  Please feel free to leave questions and comments as I go.  I will need the full support of the community to succeed!

================================
Thread Table Of Contents:
================================
*** Current Status

1. Intro / Project Details and Status
2. Current Questions (I need your help!!) *** 1 PENDING
3. 2D / 3D Design Plans
4. Parts Inventory With Cost Breakdown
5. Tools Used ***
6. Construction Material Considerations
7. Woodworking / General Construction
8. Paints and Vinyl Solutions
9. LED Lighting and Power Management
10. PC Setup / Front End Solution
11. End Results

================================
Primary Goal:
================================
My primary goal with this entire effort is to get this built quickly in 2020 so my kids and I can enjoy it together while they're still around the house.  I'm hoping to find ways we can build it together as well so the entire project focuses around family and making memories.


================================
Backstory:
================================
I'm a child of the late 70's, so naturally I spent a lot of time at the arcades growing up.  At one point I can remember trying to build one out of a giant refrigerator box in my back yard.  I have been dreaming of building my own real arcade since the early 90's, but many obstacles stood in my way.  I asked my dad to get me an old arcade shell and one day he did!  He found an old Defender cabinet through my uncle who once had invested in arcades and he modified it to hold my TV and game consoles.  That was as close as I got to the arcade dream.  I pursued working in the video games industry going into college and was able to be a big part of reviving pinball into the digital console era.  Fast forward to me being married with 4 kids, and the arcade dream is still hanging on.  After finally getting a house with a basement to have room for it, saving small amounts of cash over the years, and getting a general OK from my wife, the time has finally come!  I tried designing my own arcade cabinet almost 20 years ago and decided to throw that out once I found inspiration from sites like this one.  I haven't seen a ton of other cabinets but the few I have followed on here were incredibly inspirational and really opened my eyes to what is possible and how to do it properly.  The sheer amount of intimate detail and talent on sites like this and slagcoin are indispensable resources.

I decided to finally pull the trigger a year ago and started working on a detailed design and slowly started buying parts.  I decided to go big or go home and am aiming to make this thing do a lot and hopefully look professional enough to fool people into thinking it belongs in a legit arcade.   

Part of the journey will be developing a lot of new skills.  I am NOT skilled in ANY of the major crafts required to do this (ie wood working, electrical, circuitry, lifting heavy objects, etc), so I am definitely looking to the community for advice as I go!

One skill I can leverage is working in 3D, so I decided that would be the best way for me to start playing around with concepts.  So far it's helped me a lot, but despite the detail and looking like it might be finished in the renders, I still have a lot of underlying questions and problems to tackle.  The devil is always in the details!

I'd like to put together a very comprehensive step by step thread here covering every detail and keep it well organized.  At least that's my hope to offer something of value back to the community during this journey.

Here we go!


================================
Theme:
================================
Video games have had such a big influence on my life that there was no way I could settle for a single game theme.  I decided to try to make my own theme that represents a good majority of my all-time favorites that I played growing up.  Given that this machine will also play classic console games, I decided to represent a few from there as well.  The real trick is finding balance in the design as I don't want it to feel like a car bumper littered with stickers of all colors from around the world.  It needs to be a cohesive design that compliments my home but would fit perfectly in a real arcade.

The artwork for this is a combination of a lot of stuff I've found online, a lot of custom sprite grabbing from various games, and some original art.

I needed to settle on some base colors for the theme to be able to move forward on purchasing so I've settled on white / red / blue / purple / and black as my key palette.  The artwork in the renders is still a work in progress.


================================
Design Goals:
================================

- Must be a 4 player cabinet minimum, with the ability to support even more simultaneous players with additional USB controllers for games like X-Men.
- Needs to be as light weight as possible since I'm likely the only one who will be attempting to move this thing around up and down stairs with a dolly.
- Needs to weigh enough and be sturdy enough to not accidently move around when playing with 4 people.
- Must be low profile to not take up a lot of space and must fit through 28" door frames.
- Everything starts up from a single power button.
- It's not apparent that the machine is running Windows (convincing boot sequence)
- Support a control panel capable of authentically playing as many games as possible while not feeling cluttered or overwhelming
- Utilizes LedBlinky or similar application to clearly light up the relevant controls for the current game, simplifying the massive control panel.
- Primary player controls are easily distinguishable from secondary functions and emulator specific controls.
- Must look really cool in the dark with some custom attract mode sequences
- All core controls are easily accessible on the main cabinet for quick game selection, load / save state, pause.  Additional control for master volume control, and custom game settings will also be available through a function key combo.  Keyboard will be available but ideally never needed.
- Has a drawer to house keyboard / mouse, and additional USB controllers.
- Front coin door area is a hidden cabinet to easily access future controllers (steering wheel, analog flight stick / throttle).
- Working coin door that supports custom tokens
- Control Panel is removable with only a few disconnects to make arcade fit through small door ways.
- Arcade cabinet is height adjustable and able to make level on any surface
- Cabinet is not at risk of damage from any minor spills or ground water
- Thinking about how I can attach an additional control panel to the front to secure a wheel or flight stick for games that use them.
- Look into existing apps that can track recently played games and high scores.  See if it's possible to integrate those into an attract mode state.


================================
Core Controls / Inputs:
================================

Joysticks:
4 Sanwa JLF 8 Way
1 Sanwa JLF 4 Way

Flight stick:
Ultimarc MiniGrip Stick
Ultimarc Ultrastik 360FS

Trackball:
Ultimarc U-Trak trackball

Spinner:
Ultimarc SpinTrak

Light Guns:
2 Ultimarc Aimtrak guns

Light Gun Sensor:
ArcadeGuns.com Extreme IR Sensor Bar V2

Buttons:
Mix of LED button colors / styles from Arcade Renovations.

USB Input Controller:
Ultimarc iPAC 4

USB LED Controller:
Ultimarc pacLED64



================================
Key Inspiration and Special Shouts:
================================

This list will likely grow and apologies if anyone accidently gets missed!

- ALL companies that provide and support arcade products  Without you none of this would be possible!
- Andy with Ultimarc for creating so many great solutions and answering questions along the way!
- Rich with Arcade Renovations for creating great product and providing additional support.
- Scott with GameOnGrafix for answering questions on Vinyl prints (my likely source when it comes time)
- Folks at ParadiseArcade for providing LED solutions!
- EVERYONE who has ever contributed to the BYOAC forum.  It's clearly a community where everyone has inspired each other in some way.  The free knowledge share and expertise is unbeatable!
- Chance / Flynn's Arcade thread which was really the first major thread google happened to link me to years back when searching for 4 player cabinet designs.


That's it for now!  I hope you enjoy my journey in this project and find something useful in the process!

Chris Kline
https://www.vertexguy.com

« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 05:38:42 pm by vertexguy »

Mike A

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2019, 02:29:58 pm »
The first thing you should do is forget about playing console games on an arcade cab.

Console games were designed to use game pads. For most console games the experience will be bad to terrible on an arcade cab. Also, console gaming sessions tend to last longer.

After you build your cab, put together a console emulation box and play console games from a comfy couch in front of your TV.

That will make your arcade cab game list much smaller and more manageable.

People quickly lose interest in wading through a game menu with a few thousand entries in it.

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2019, 02:31:16 pm »
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: Current Questions  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will attempt to migrate questions up to this level so it's easy for folks to find and contribute if you don't want to follow the entire thread.

I need all you drawer and cabinet maker experts advise.

The front coin door section is intended to have a drawer above it, and the lower half is a larger cabinet door for storage / easier access to accessories like steering wheels / pedals / pc access when I get there.

I've not yet figured out how to make these accessible without an exposed door handle, and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time.  I'm trying to keep it feeling as much like a legit front of an arcade as possible.  The drawer above is to house the keyboard / mouse, which won't be used often, BUT it will also house USb controllers that will get used a lot... so it validates the need more in my eyes.

The idea I had for the main front door was to leave about a 1/2 inch lip at the bottom which would meet up with the base of the cabinet, so it can be colored the same to help hide it and given its on the ground it's less noticeable.  I thought MAYBE I could pull on that easily enough to open and close it with some sort of stiff pull hinges.  Needs to be somewhat kid friendly too.  I'd also like to figure out a locking mechanism so it doesn't flop open in transport

Similar deal with the top sliding drawer.  I have the slides already but am not sure how I can hide a handle.  I figure this drawer will get a lot more action then the bottom cabinet drawer so it should be built to last and kid friendly.  Also not sure how I can have some sort of lock to keep it in place during transport.

Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 11:56:18 am by vertexguy »

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2019, 02:41:37 pm »
-------------------------------------
2D / 3D Design Plans
-------------------------------------

*** WORK IN PROGRESS ***

Here are some renders of where I'm at in the design process so far.  All is subject to change as I gather input from the community to help me improve it.









Let me know your thoughts!

« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 12:25:40 pm by vertexguy »

Mike A

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2019, 02:42:14 pm »
A lot of people use MDF. I hate it.

It is heavy and it doesn't hold screws well.

The sawdust is toxic.

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2019, 02:55:58 pm »
The first thing you should do is forget about playing console games on an arcade cab.

Console games were designed to use game pads. For most console games the experience will be bad to terrible on an arcade cab. Also, console gaming sessions tend to last longer.

Yep, this is why I'm supporting external USB game pads through the cab.  I'm likely not going to attempt to support anything beyond the SNES era on this.  The current computer I'm using wouldn't support it anyway.  The main focus is games intended for arcade.  I'll likely end up getting some bar stools for longer play sessions.  A separate console box is a consideration for a future project though.  :)

Mike A

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2019, 03:02:30 pm »
Yeah. sitting in front of an arcade cab with a game pad in your hands will feel really unnatural.

You are already pushing it with all of the controls on that cab.

I have a small arcade room with a little over a dozen dedicated games. I have parties with adults and kids present.

I have one MAME cab. It has a 4 way joystick, a trackball, and three buttons. There are about 20 games on it. People still have trouble figuring it out.



vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2019, 03:24:41 pm »
=============================================
Parts Inventory With Cost Breakdown
=============================================
I'll update this Excel file as I go.  I already have purchased most of what I should need.

CURRENT TOTAL: $2168

https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/arcade-cost-breakdown.xlsx


Keeping all this stuff organized has been a challenge as it comes in, but I think I have it broken down into some key category boxes now to help me find things faster.

Exploring Button Options



Big Box Of Buttons


Coin Door saved from the old defender cabinet I had growing up.


Drawer Slides!


iPac 4 Input Controller


pacLED64 - LED Controller Test


Big Box of Joysticks and Control Pads


LED box


LED Marquee Strips


Mounting Hardware box


Computer (Dell Optiplex GX620) running Windows 7


Power Button



Power Strip


Speakers


T-Molding


Misc Tools


TV (LED Flatscreen chosen for maximum viewing angle and light weight)


USB Extention Box


USB Hub


Wires and Electrical Connectors


LED Experiment Supplies


« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 08:24:52 pm by vertexguy »

opt2not

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2019, 03:43:17 pm »
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2019, 03:58:27 pm »
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???

Uh oh... tell me more.  What are the concerns?

yotsuya

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2019, 03:59:21 pm »
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???

You just get numb to it after a while. I like to see new build threads, but once I see ďfour playerĒ and ďFlynnís ArcadeĒ, I cant help but mentally check out and unfollow.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2019, 04:01:25 pm »
Oh, and I think Iíd like the art and theme if you lost all the characters. Otherwise, the high tech bits look good. The characters just seemÖ forced. At least they blend in a bit, Iíll give you that.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

opt2not

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2019, 04:34:49 pm »
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???

Uh oh... tell me more.  What are the concerns?
Myself and many others have explained this on multiple occasions to multiple new builders.

So here goes again: that CP design, while having a fun shape is ergonomically bad for multiplayer. Basically it comes down to the P3 elbow interfering with P1ís joystick, and P4ís elbow getting in the way of P2ís button space.
You could always widen the CP, but then youíre compromising the layout and screen position of P3&4ís controls for what, a slightly different looking shape?

Iíve said it before, arcade control ďcraftĒ should be about ergonomics and playability first, aesthetics second.
Just look at all the original 4P cabs and take note of their shapes and control positions. Thereís a reason why they didnít make CPs with wild shapes for 4P cabinets.

Oh, and I think Iíd like the art and theme if you lost all the characters. Otherwise, the high tech bits look good. The characters just seemÖ forced. At least they blend in a bit, Iíll give you that.
Iím in agreement with brother Yots here. But art seems to be more of a personal taste subject, so Iíll try to be mellow on this criticism. I do believe that a dedicated theme is stronger than a mishmash of characters thrown together with no context.

Iím also not too keen on titling an arcade cabinet as Arcade. Itís like putting a label on your car that said Car. Or a sign on your dog that says Dog.
We know itís an arcade cabinet. You donít need to hit us over the head with the arcade label. I suggest coming up with a creative name of your cab. Something that goes along with the art as a themed title.
 

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2019, 05:42:38 pm »
that CP design, while having a fun shape is ergonomically bad for multiplayer. Basically it comes down to the P3 elbow interfering with P1ís joystick, and P4ís elbow getting in the way of P2ís button space.

Related post:
I got this advice from multiple members on this board, and it was very hard for me to visualize what people were talking about.  In working on MULTIPLE configurations for a 4 player panel, I finally understand what everyone has been talking about.  I had planned after working on the build log to create a separate topic on the 4 player panel design to give visuals to what finally clicked for me.  Below kind of summarize it, if you build the controls at certain angles you force the players to either be close together or further apart:



VS.



You can see that by changing both the angle of the buttons and sticks as well as the shape of the panel affects the angle at which players play and of course whether or not they bump into each other.


Scott

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2019, 06:00:40 pm »
There should be a giant flashing banner on that Chance cab thread. Your CP shouldn't be shaped like a Batarang.

This is a very ambitious first build. I hope it comes out great.
Take all of the comments, negative and positive. Take what is useful and discard the rest.


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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2019, 07:24:42 pm »
Probably already ordered, but I'd recommend a Sanwa JLW or Ms. Pacman anniversary stick for 4-way.  Although the JLF insert can be rotated for 4-way, it isn't great as one.

I'm not sure of the quality of your buttons, but be wary of the cheapest knockoffs of the Japanese style convex buttons.  I received similar looking buttons with an analog joystick that I wanted to test out.  The action of them isn't smooth.  You press down, then meet some resistance, then push past the resistance to activate the switch.  Real Sanwa or Semitsu buttons feel like one smooth motion from initial press to bottomed out.  Buy one good name brand button as a reference point.   They may be fine.  The good ones and bad ones look pretty much the same.

I used Semitsu buttons in a curved layout on my cab because I wanted a modern look.  On games that use more than 3 buttons I find myself looking down at my hands to reset my fingers more often than I did on my old x-arcade cp.  If I were doing it over, I'd go back to concave buttons in a straight 6 layout.  The concave shape gives your fingers a reference to center themselves and not wander off the edges.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2019, 07:34:54 pm »
Oh, and there are no good flight stick games. Just Space Harrier, but that used an analog flight stick. (It's actually very playable with a standard joystick if you tweak the analog "digital" settings in MAME)

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2019, 08:40:13 pm »
Oh, and there are no good flight stick games.

For me it's primarily for Tron.  Might get me by for afterburner until I have a good analog stick attachment solution.  ;)

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2020, 03:09:00 pm »
So what are peoples opinions on wood?  Seems like the cab will be well over 300lbs with mdf and closer to 200 with ply so I'm leaning towards ply.  Why is ply harder to work with?  Will my 3/4 t-molding look odd if the ply thickness is less than 3/4?  I cant seem to find any that's the right thickness.

Some in other threads recommend Baltic birch but I cant find a place to get 8x4 sheets?

Regardless the ply type what can be done to prevent warping with humidity swings?


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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2020, 03:31:59 pm »
I have a love/hate relationship with MDF.  I used it on my cab because it's available and machines well.  If you go with MDF, paint the inside and edges, especially the bottom.  Unless it's outdoors or in a basement that floods, humidity won't be a problem.

Better quality plywood like baltic birch can be found at suppliers for kitchen cabinet builders if you can figure out where your local cabinet builders shop.  The stuff they sell has more layers and fewer voids than the big box store stuff.
Plywood probably is superior.  I assume the reason people might say it is harder to work with is chipping.  Use a blade with a high tooth count to minimize chipping.  Depending on how smooth it is, you may also have to skim the sides with glazing putty and sand before applying side art.

They make a tool that trims the t-molding flush with the edges of the wood, but I am ok with a very, very slight overhang.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 03:36:04 pm by BadMouth »

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2020, 03:41:17 pm »
MDF is also easier to paint than Ply. Ply will require a lot of filling and sanding of the flat surfaces to get smooth, while mdf comes in smooth from the get-go.

Personally I think ply is the right way to go, regardless of the extra finishing work.
Lighter, less toxic dust.

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2020, 03:50:17 pm »
Opt, I dont mind spending a little extra time to get things right.

What kind of filler should I use on ply and how much do you think is needed for 3 8x4 sheets?

I was debating doing that kind of work and priming and painting before making any cuts.  Seemed like it would be easier to just do touch ups that way.

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2020, 04:05:50 pm »
What kind of wood are authentic classic cabinets like pacman. Centipede, etc. made from?

yotsuya

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2020, 04:07:16 pm »
What kind of wood are authentic classic cabinets like pacman. Centipede, etc. made from?

Some, like Pac-Man are ply, while all the Atari cabs Iíve seen are heavy-ass MDF/particleboard. It depends.
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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2020, 05:58:06 pm »
What kind of filler should I use on ply and how much do you think is needed for 3 8x4 sheets?
Bondo would be the most reliable. Itís an automobile filler that everyone uses for our hobby and is a bit tricky to use the first time you do it. But it drys fast and hard, and itís easy to sand and shape.

What kind of wood are authentic classic cabinets like pacman. Centipede, etc. made from?
Just as Yots said, it varies. I just finished a 90ís Konami cab restoration that is made up of particle board. Terrible stuff. Chips easy and is heavy af. My Robotron is made of ply, as well as my DK Jr.. I think Dynamoís are made of MDF, and I believe the Neo Geo cabs are as well. But donít quote me on that one.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2020, 06:48:42 pm »
Nothing wrong with MDF, if you wear a mask.  If you do use it, go with an MDF core melamine.

I've had no issues with MDF holding screw, just use a a coarse thread screw, there's also specialty screws you can buy as well.

All of my cabs are MDF core melamine, mainly cause i refuse to paint another cabinet.  I spent more time sanding, filling and pulling splinters out of my hand etc.  The melamine layer is super smooth and is ready for graphics right out of the box.

Regardless a 4plyr cab is gonna be heavy no matter what  you use, every part adds weight.  My MDF core builds can be easily moved by one person no issue, without a dolley.  Minimizing inside space and shelving cuts down on the weight as well.

Also another idea if you want a lighter cab is go with 5/8 mdf or plywood and laminate both sides with 1/16 vertical cabinet grade laminate, that will get you 3/4 for your tmoulding.  Once you install your graphics and tmoulding, a sharp razor blade across the edge will make quick work of any overhang that you have.

But yes, you are going ambitious for a first build, and to Mike A's point shoving a crapload of games in that thing will get old really quick.  I've also found that a dedicated 4way stick is waste.  There are servo sticks and the kind where you can pull up and twist to go from 4 way to 8 way.  Dedicated 4ways don't tend to work up to expectations especially in wood panels.

The artwork is ok, no one is s real fan of the inifinite character mosaic :)

Also, take the pinball buttons off, playing pinball games one screen in a arcade cab sucks.

Before you invest in those guns, do your research the emulation for the compatible games isnt that great, people complain about the calibration and its either off or doesnt work at all.

Id take that 4 way out and put a real tron trigger in its place if your a tron junkie.

And bless your heart if your front end is hyperspin building the cab will be the easy part getting that software to work with all of those consoles, pc, games, mame etc seamlessly will push you into a state of F-this i'm buying a pandoras fight stick and call it a day.


   

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vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2020, 10:45:10 pm »
Here's a more detailed view of what I was planning for the internal structure of this thing.  Note the thickness differences to save a bit on weight.  I was thinking the box frame of 1.5" pine would help with additional stability when opening / closing the front cabinet door and make assembly a bit easier.  I had planned on gluing everything and only having screws used as temporary clamps for gluing or on removable panels where they are screwing into something like a t-nut to prevent wear.  The base is an idea for the under lighting though it may be overkill.  I figured I would need the lighting moved away from the outer edge a bit and able to mount so it points outward, hence the second smaller box frame on the bottom.  I also thought the squares on the inner corners is where I would connect the adjustable feet.   Cabinet dimensions without the CP are 24" deep x 31.5" wide x 71.5" tall.  Thoughts?



« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 11:02:17 pm by vertexguy »

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2020, 11:21:05 pm »
So what are peoples opinions on wood?  Seems like the cab will be well over 300lbs with mdf and closer to 200 with ply so I'm leaning towards ply.  Why is ply harder to work with?  Will my 3/4 t-molding look odd if the ply thickness is less than 3/4?  I cant seem to find any that's the right thickness.

Some in other threads recommend Baltic birch but I cant find a place to get 8x4 sheets?

Regardless the ply type what can be done to prevent warping with humidity swings?
The pieces once screwed together tend not to warp after the fact...Normally I personally buy 2x the wood a year in advance and let it cure before I cut it (extreme I know, and normally not necessary) as long as the moisture content is relatively low your good to go...Secretly Jennifer has been experimenting with Coosa board (a carbon fiber ply like substance) Normally used in boat construction that shows incredible promise in moisture control,  absorption rates, and since it is a ply quite workable with wood tooling (although blades dull quickly) and has excellent screw retention.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 11:34:13 pm by jennifer »

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2020, 11:24:15 pm »
You can see that by changing both the angle of the buttons and sticks as well as the shape of the panel affects the angle at which players play and of course whether or not they bump into each other.

Thank you for posting the visual!  That definitely explains things better than words.  I agree that the play-ability and ergonomics outweighs aesthetic.  That's why you'll note that my layout isn't simply symmetrical.  I've been shuffling a lot of buttons and controls around.

I had done a digital test with bipeds early on with this panel design as a starting point and I admit I'm not sold on it yet.  The problem I have with the 90 degree turn on the outer players is the severe compromise on viewing angle for a little elbow room.  That bothers me more than squishing against someone.  There's gotta be a better happy medium somewhere...

I'm hoping to do several tests both digitally and physically to prove out the ergonomics and viewing angles to find a suitable solution.  I'll likely start up a whole category in this thread just focused on the control panel when I get to that point.  For the moment, hopefully you notice that the layout is modified from what others like Chance had used.  I'm trying to carefully think about button access from each players perspective and in different combinations for different game types.  When I get the core cabinet up. I plan on doing a fast CP top to physically test it out, especially from P3 / P4.  Another unknown is how much I'll end up whacking other controls trying to use the trackball for games like Marble Madness and Golden Tee.   I tried to do some guess work based on some simple measurements of how far my hand moved but nothing beats testing a physical working prototype.

...drop the pinball buttons...

Regarding the pinball buttons, I'm not sure I'll get into pinball on this either, but figured I'd give it a shot.  I did develop some nice console pinball games in the past so I know there's hope for it being enjoyable...at least for me.  ;)
 Worst case I planned on doubling those controls up as volume controls when holding the function button down (front plunger button).  I already bought 2 sets of buttons for them.  One set are black classic Happ style for more authentic feel. and the others are the blue eclipse style in the renders.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 11:47:27 pm by vertexguy »

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2020, 12:26:41 am »
The side viewing angles arenít as severe as you think theyíre going to be. People are standing back away from the screen, after all!
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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2020, 12:35:53 am »
Word of advice, donít use Chance as your arcade messiah. He just regurgitated information siphoned off other memberís projects here, then practically disowned the forum to promote his YouTube channel posing like heís an authority on the subject matter. This is one of the major issues with why people keep propagating his bad CP design. The guy doesnít even post here anymore other than to respond to bumps to his own threads.

There are multiple other projects here that have way better examples on building a scratch cab. Check out the hall of fame sticky. Many of the projects there have some great ideas and themes, and are far better examples for reference.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 03:09:21 am by opt2not »

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2020, 02:08:24 am »
Never really thought about it, But it does seem to explain the desire, that and the lure of one machine that does everything but make toast...personally, I think his design isn't far off the mark, but that insistent use of plexi kills the machines soul, something about real glass and steel that just lights up the night.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2020, 01:01:29 pm »
Word of advice, donít use Chance as your arcade messiah. He just regurgitated information siphoned off other memberís projects here, then practically disowned the forum to promote his YouTube channel posing like heís an authority on the subject matter. This is one of the major issues with why people keep propagating his bad CP design. The guy doesnít even post here anymore other than to respond to bumps to his own threads.

There are multiple other projects here that have way better examples on building a scratch cab. Check out the hall of fame sticky. Many of the projects there have some great ideas and themes, and are far better examples for reference.

Clearly there is some friction with that project around here. :(  I had no idea and am not at all saying any one project is the superior solution to reference.  Fact of the matter is, that's just where google routed me back when I was searching 4 player cabinet designs years ago.  I tried looking at others but several in the hall of fame and elsewhere lack photos.  They all point to photobucket urls that don't seem to work anymore. :/ .  I'm also not sure there's nearly as many 4 player builds to reference as 2, so that limited my searching.

Bottom line, I don't think anyone on a forum like this should assume their contributions didn't some how influence everyone around here.  I'm looking to the community for help and wisdom.  I assumed he brought a few things of his own to the table, but even if not, there's no way I would know that, and it doesn't make it any less relevant to helping others.  I simply referenced what caught my attention back then and nothing more.  I'll try to make that more clear in my intro post.  If someone covered something well in an existing post, please link me to it.  One of my goals is to consolidate that information into one place to make it easier for everyone to find in one comprehensive build thread.


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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2020, 01:08:01 pm »
Never really thought about it, But it does seem to explain the desire, that and the lure of one machine that does everything but make toast...personally, I think his design isn't far off the mark, but that insistent use of plexi kills the machines soul, something about real glass and steel that just lights up the night.

You lost me?  Was this intended for a different thread?  I don't follow the context?

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2020, 04:01:25 pm »

Clearly there is some friction with that project around here.

And I'm not entirely sure why.  There are some observations about the placement of the four players and I'm sure there's a lot to be learned from the wisdom of others on that matter.  But there's also a lot of great information and attention to detail in that project.  I remember when I first came across it and nearly didn't read the thread because the cabinet design wasn't really to my taste, but the thread is a great read and the cabinet is a quality product.  It also lead me on to check his other projects, which gave me a huge amount of information that I'm using in my own build (and he's still providing input on that thread).  Take what you can from a variety of cabinets on here, but don't ignore Chance's projects because there's a lot to be learned from them.

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The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2020, 04:36:23 pm »

Clearly there is some friction with that project around here.

And I'm not entirely sure why.  There are some observations about the placement of the four players and I'm sure there's a lot to be learned from the wisdom of others on that matter.  But there's also a lot of great information and attention to detail in that project.  I remember when I first came across it and nearly didn't read the thread because the cabinet design wasn't really to my taste, but the thread is a great read and the cabinet is a quality product.  It also lead me on to check his other projects, which gave me a huge amount of information that I'm using in my own build (and he's still providing input on that thread).  Take what you can from a variety of cabinets on here, but don't ignore Chance's projects because there's a lot to be learned from them.

It goes a lot deeper than just simply the cab and itís not worth rehashing. The problem is that people see that cab and project and lock on to it without seeing what else is out there or the cons of that design. They fall in love with the bling and the thought of a 4 player cab and never get deeper than that until the ďproject announcementĒ phase, and by then itís too late to give feedback without feelings getting bruised.

I chat with Chance from time to time off this site. I hope he comes to ZapCon one day. But Iím not a fan of the cab (well, really just the control panel shape). You can learn a lot from his thread. But itís not the end all/be all that some new builders think it is.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 04:52:50 pm by yotsuya »
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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2020, 11:06:52 pm »
Never really thought about it, But it does seem to explain the desire, that and the lure of one machine that does everything but make toast...personally, I think his design isn't far off the mark, but that insistent use of plexi kills the machines soul, something about real glass and steel that just lights up the night.

You lost me?  Was this intended for a different thread?  I don't follow the context?
I was talking to Opt2...Might as well be in a different thread since it was so lost on you.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2020, 11:36:32 pm »
First off, that is some slick cad work.  If you bring that level of detail to your other skill development your cab will be excellent.

I think Iím in the same boat as you.  Started off here with a Google search wanted the 4 player and stumbled on the cab.  I posted that example of the 4 player angles from my research that Scott posted so Iíve spent a lot of time thinking over this thing.

Itís clear youíve got an eye for detail and Iíd push you to come up with something on your own.  Not because I donít like Chanceís stuff, like you heís documentation got me going on mine.  Rather itís clear you have the skills to design something on your own, and I know that would suck and be a lot of work but I think youíd look back and be glad you can call it your own.

I only say this cause as someone knee deep in a build, itís a lot of work, and you wonít change what you are doing once you commit to something, so just be sure you like what you go with. 

We need more creativity around here these days and I think youíve got the chops to do it.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2020, 01:07:52 am »
We need more creativity around here these days and I think youíve got the chops to do it.

Subscribed!

Thanks Arroyo!  I needed that about now.  :)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 01:09:53 am by vertexguy »

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2020, 09:38:47 am »
On the subject of console games on arcade cabinets; I went all-in on my cabinet's game selection as well with stuff from the 8/16-bit era, Playstation, Dreamcast, etc. along side wired USB controllers. It's certainly a mixed bag, but I'd say on the whole in my own set up it wasn't detrimental to the function of the system. I think there are enough arcade-like console games to be worth including. Similarly, my kids were often happy to play longer console games on a stool, elbows on the control panel, holding a wired controller.

The only real frustration with multiple systems that we ever ran into was my choice of front-end. I like the over-the-top flashiness of Hyperspin and the animated game selections screens it supported. At the time it didn't support mixing systems on a single selection menu, so having the kids struggled a little with remembering which submenu the games they liked were in. When I built a console-dedicated emulation computer for the family room TV, I found Emulation Station supported a favorites menu that mixes multiple systems' items.