The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 02:10:59 pm

Title: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 02:10:59 pm
Hey everyone!

My first project post is finally here and I'm really excited to get started!  Please feel free to leave questions and comments as I go.  I will need the full support of the community to succeed!

================================
Thread Table Of Contents:
================================
*** Current Status

1. Intro / Project Details and Status
2. Current Questions (I need your help!!) *** 1 PENDING
3. 2D / 3D Design Plans
4. Parts Inventory With Cost Breakdown
5. Tools Used ***
6. Construction Material Considerations
7. Woodworking / General Construction
8. Paints and Vinyl Solutions
9. LED Lighting and Power Management
10. PC Setup / Front End Solution
11. End Results

================================
Primary Goal:
================================
My primary goal with this entire effort is to get this built quickly in 2020 so my kids and I can enjoy it together while they're still around the house.  I'm hoping to find ways we can build it together as well so the entire project focuses around family and making memories.


================================
Backstory:
================================
I'm a child of the late 70's, so naturally I spent a lot of time at the arcades growing up.  At one point I can remember trying to build one out of a giant refrigerator box in my back yard.  I have been dreaming of building my own real arcade since the early 90's, but many obstacles stood in my way.  I asked my dad to get me an old arcade shell and one day he did!  He found an old Defender cabinet through my uncle who once had invested in arcades and he modified it to hold my TV and game consoles.  That was as close as I got to the arcade dream.  I pursued working in the video games industry going into college and was able to be a big part of reviving pinball into the digital console era.  Fast forward to me being married with 4 kids, and the arcade dream is still hanging on.  After finally getting a house with a basement to have room for it, saving small amounts of cash over the years, and getting a general OK from my wife, the time has finally come!  I tried designing my own arcade cabinet almost 20 years ago and decided to throw that out once I found inspiration from sites like this one.  I haven't seen a ton of other cabinets but the few I have followed on here were incredibly inspirational and really opened my eyes to what is possible and how to do it properly.  The sheer amount of intimate detail and talent on sites like this and slagcoin are indispensable resources.

I decided to finally pull the trigger a year ago and started working on a detailed design and slowly started buying parts.  I decided to go big or go home and am aiming to make this thing do a lot and hopefully look professional enough to fool people into thinking it belongs in a legit arcade.   

Part of the journey will be developing a lot of new skills.  I am NOT skilled in ANY of the major crafts required to do this (ie wood working, electrical, circuitry, lifting heavy objects, etc), so I am definitely looking to the community for advice as I go!

One skill I can leverage is working in 3D, so I decided that would be the best way for me to start playing around with concepts.  So far it's helped me a lot, but despite the detail and looking like it might be finished in the renders, I still have a lot of underlying questions and problems to tackle.  The devil is always in the details!

I'd like to put together a very comprehensive step by step thread here covering every detail and keep it well organized.  At least that's my hope to offer something of value back to the community during this journey.

Here we go!


================================
Theme:
================================
Video games have had such a big influence on my life that there was no way I could settle for a single game theme.  I decided to try to make my own theme that represents a good majority of my all-time favorites that I played growing up.  Given that this machine will also play classic console games, I decided to represent a few from there as well.  The real trick is finding balance in the design as I don't want it to feel like a car bumper littered with stickers of all colors from around the world.  It needs to be a cohesive design that compliments my home but would fit perfectly in a real arcade.

The artwork for this is a combination of a lot of stuff I've found online, a lot of custom sprite grabbing from various games, and some original art.

I needed to settle on some base colors for the theme to be able to move forward on purchasing so I've settled on white / red / blue / purple / and black as my key palette.  The artwork in the renders is still a work in progress.


================================
Design Goals:
================================

- Must be a 4 player cabinet minimum, with the ability to support even more simultaneous players with additional USB controllers for games like X-Men.
- Needs to be as light weight as possible since I'm likely the only one who will be attempting to move this thing around up and down stairs with a dolly.
- Needs to weigh enough and be sturdy enough to not accidently move around when playing with 4 people.
- Must be low profile to not take up a lot of space and must fit through 28" door frames.
- Everything starts up from a single power button.
- It's not apparent that the machine is running Windows (convincing boot sequence)
- Support a control panel capable of authentically playing as many games as possible while not feeling cluttered or overwhelming
- Utilizes LedBlinky or similar application to clearly light up the relevant controls for the current game, simplifying the massive control panel.
- Primary player controls are easily distinguishable from secondary functions and emulator specific controls.
- Must look really cool in the dark with some custom attract mode sequences
- All core controls are easily accessible on the main cabinet for quick game selection, load / save state, pause.  Additional control for master volume control, and custom game settings will also be available through a function key combo.  Keyboard will be available but ideally never needed.
- Has a drawer to house keyboard / mouse, and additional USB controllers.
- Front coin door area is a hidden cabinet to easily access future controllers (steering wheel, analog flight stick / throttle).
- Working coin door that supports custom tokens
- Control Panel is removable with only a few disconnects to make arcade fit through small door ways.
- Arcade cabinet is height adjustable and able to make level on any surface
- Cabinet is not at risk of damage from any minor spills or ground water
- Thinking about how I can attach an additional control panel to the front to secure a wheel or flight stick for games that use them.
- Look into existing apps that can track recently played games and high scores.  See if it's possible to integrate those into an attract mode state.


================================
Core Controls / Inputs:
================================

Joysticks:
4 Sanwa JLF 8 Way
1 Sanwa JLF 4 Way

Flight stick:
Ultimarc MiniGrip Stick
Ultimarc Ultrastik 360FS

Trackball:
Ultimarc U-Trak trackball

Spinner:
Ultimarc SpinTrak

Light Guns:
2 Ultimarc Aimtrak guns

Light Gun Sensor:
ArcadeGuns.com Extreme IR Sensor Bar V2

Buttons:
Mix of LED button colors / styles from Arcade Renovations.

USB Input Controller:
Ultimarc iPAC 4

USB LED Controller:
Ultimarc pacLED64



================================
Key Inspiration and Special Shouts:
================================

This list will likely grow and apologies if anyone accidently gets missed!

- ALL companies that provide and support arcade products  Without you none of this would be possible!
- Andy with Ultimarc for creating so many great solutions and answering questions along the way!
- Rich with Arcade Renovations for creating great product and providing additional support.
- Scott with GameOnGrafix for answering questions on Vinyl prints (my likely source when it comes time)
- Folks at ParadiseArcade for providing LED solutions!
- EVERYONE who has ever contributed to the BYOAC forum.  It's clearly a community where everyone has inspired each other in some way.  The free knowledge share and expertise is unbeatable!
- Chance / Flynn's Arcade thread which was really the first major thread google happened to link me to years back when searching for 4 player cabinet designs.


That's it for now!  I hope you enjoy my journey in this project and find something useful in the process!

Chris Kline
https://www.vertexguy.com

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on December 31, 2019, 02:29:58 pm
The first thing you should do is forget about playing console games on an arcade cab.

Console games were designed to use game pads. For most console games the experience will be bad to terrible on an arcade cab. Also, console gaming sessions tend to last longer.

After you build your cab, put together a console emulation box and play console games from a comfy couch in front of your TV.

That will make your arcade cab game list much smaller and more manageable.

People quickly lose interest in wading through a game menu with a few thousand entries in it.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 02:31:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: Current Questions  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will attempt to migrate questions up to this level so it's easy for folks to find and contribute if you don't want to follow the entire thread.

I need all you drawer and cabinet maker experts advise.

The front coin door section is intended to have a drawer above it, and the lower half is a larger cabinet door for storage / easier access to accessories like steering wheels / pedals / pc access when I get there.

I've not yet figured out how to make these accessible without an exposed door handle, and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time.  I'm trying to keep it feeling as much like a legit front of an arcade as possible.  The drawer above is to house the keyboard / mouse, which won't be used often, BUT it will also house USb controllers that will get used a lot... so it validates the need more in my eyes.

The idea I had for the main front door was to leave about a 1/2 inch lip at the bottom which would meet up with the base of the cabinet, so it can be colored the same to help hide it and given its on the ground it's less noticeable.  I thought MAYBE I could pull on that easily enough to open and close it with some sort of stiff pull hinges.  Needs to be somewhat kid friendly too.  I'd also like to figure out a locking mechanism so it doesn't flop open in transport

Similar deal with the top sliding drawer.  I have the slides already but am not sure how I can hide a handle.  I figure this drawer will get a lot more action then the bottom cabinet drawer so it should be built to last and kid friendly.  Also not sure how I can have some sort of lock to keep it in place during transport.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 02:41:37 pm
-------------------------------------
2D / 3D Design Plans
-------------------------------------

*** WORK IN PROGRESS ***

Here are some renders of where I'm at in the design process so far.  All is subject to change as I gather input from the community to help me improve it.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/wireframe01.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/wireframe02.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/wireframe03.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/arcade01.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/arcade02.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/arcade03.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/arcade04.jpg)

Let me know your thoughts!

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on December 31, 2019, 02:42:14 pm
A lot of people use MDF. I hate it.

It is heavy and it doesn't hold screws well.

The sawdust is toxic.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 02:55:58 pm
The first thing you should do is forget about playing console games on an arcade cab.

Console games were designed to use game pads. For most console games the experience will be bad to terrible on an arcade cab. Also, console gaming sessions tend to last longer.

Yep, this is why I'm supporting external USB game pads through the cab.  I'm likely not going to attempt to support anything beyond the SNES era on this.  The current computer I'm using wouldn't support it anyway.  The main focus is games intended for arcade.  I'll likely end up getting some bar stools for longer play sessions.  A separate console box is a consideration for a future project though.  :)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on December 31, 2019, 03:02:30 pm
Yeah. sitting in front of an arcade cab with a game pad in your hands will feel really unnatural.

You are already pushing it with all of the controls on that cab.

I have a small arcade room with a little over a dozen dedicated games. I have parties with adults and kids present.

I have one MAME cab. It has a 4 way joystick, a trackball, and three buttons. There are about 20 games on it. People still have trouble figuring it out.


Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 03:24:41 pm
=============================================
Parts Inventory With Cost Breakdown
=============================================
I'll update this Excel file as I go.  I already have purchased most of what I should need.

CURRENT TOTAL: $2168

https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/arcade-cost-breakdown.xlsx (https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/arcade-cost-breakdown.xlsx)


Keeping all this stuff organized has been a challenge as it comes in, but I think I have it broken down into some key category boxes now to help me find things faster.

Exploring Button Options
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/button-test01.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/button-test02.jpg)

Big Box Of Buttons
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/buttons-box01.jpg)

Coin Door saved from the old defender cabinet I had growing up.
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/coin-door01.jpg)

Drawer Slides!
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/drawer-slides01.jpg)

iPac 4 Input Controller
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/ipac4-01.jpg)

pacLED64 - LED Controller Test
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/pacled64-test01.jpg)

Big Box of Joysticks and Control Pads
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/joystick-box01.jpg)

LED box
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/led-box01.jpg)

LED Marquee Strips
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/led-strips01.jpg)

Mounting Hardware box
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/mounting-box01.jpg)

Computer (Dell Optiplex GX620) running Windows 7
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/led-box01.jpg)

Power Button
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/power-button01.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/power-button02.jpg)

Power Strip
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/powerstrip01.jpg)

Speakers
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/speakers01.jpg)

T-Molding
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/tmolding01.jpg)

Misc Tools
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/tool-box01.jpg)

TV (LED Flatscreen chosen for maximum viewing angle and light weight)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/tv01.jpg)

USB Extention Box
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/usb-box01.jpg)

USB Hub
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/usb-hub01.jpg)

Wires and Electrical Connectors
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/wire-box01.jpg)

LED Experiment Supplies
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/folder-test01.jpg)

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on December 31, 2019, 03:43:17 pm
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 03:58:27 pm
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???

Uh oh... tell me more.  What are the concerns?
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on December 31, 2019, 03:59:21 pm
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???

You just get numb to it after a while. I like to see new build threads, but once I see ďfour playerĒ and ďFlynnís ArcadeĒ, I cant help but mentally check out and unfollow.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on December 31, 2019, 04:01:25 pm
Oh, and I think Iíd like the art and theme if you lost all the characters. Otherwise, the high tech bits look good. The characters just seemÖ forced. At least they blend in a bit, Iíll give you that.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on December 31, 2019, 04:34:49 pm
Surprised Mike didnít mention that bad CP shape design.
 ???

Uh oh... tell me more.  What are the concerns?
Myself and many others have explained this on multiple occasions to multiple new builders.

So here goes again: that CP design, while having a fun shape is ergonomically bad for multiplayer. Basically it comes down to the P3 elbow interfering with P1ís joystick, and P4ís elbow getting in the way of P2ís button space.
You could always widen the CP, but then youíre compromising the layout and screen position of P3&4ís controls for what, a slightly different looking shape?

Iíve said it before, arcade control ďcraftĒ should be about ergonomics and playability first, aesthetics second.
Just look at all the original 4P cabs and take note of their shapes and control positions. Thereís a reason why they didnít make CPs with wild shapes for 4P cabinets.

Oh, and I think Iíd like the art and theme if you lost all the characters. Otherwise, the high tech bits look good. The characters just seemÖ forced. At least they blend in a bit, Iíll give you that.
Iím in agreement with brother Yots here. But art seems to be more of a personal taste subject, so Iíll try to be mellow on this criticism. I do believe that a dedicated theme is stronger than a mishmash of characters thrown together with no context.

Iím also not too keen on titling an arcade cabinet as Arcade. Itís like putting a label on your car that said Car. Or a sign on your dog that says Dog.
We know itís an arcade cabinet. You donít need to hit us over the head with the arcade label. I suggest coming up with a creative name of your cab. Something that goes along with the art as a themed title.
 
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: PL1 on December 31, 2019, 05:42:38 pm
that CP design, while having a fun shape is ergonomically bad for multiplayer. Basically it comes down to the P3 elbow interfering with P1ís joystick, and P4ís elbow getting in the way of P2ís button space.

Related post:
I got this advice from multiple members on this board, and it was very hard for me to visualize what people were talking about.  In working on MULTIPLE configurations for a 4 player panel, I finally understand what everyone has been talking about.  I had planned after working on the build log to create a separate topic on the 4 player panel design to give visuals to what finally clicked for me.  Below kind of summarize it, if you build the controls at certain angles you force the players to either be close together or further apart:

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=372166;image)

VS.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=149895.0;attach=372170;image)

You can see that by changing both the angle of the buttons and sticks as well as the shape of the panel affects the angle at which players play and of course whether or not they bump into each other.


Scott
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on December 31, 2019, 06:00:40 pm
There should be a giant flashing banner on that Chance cab thread. Your CP shouldn't be shaped like a Batarang.

This is a very ambitious first build. I hope it comes out great.
Take all of the comments, negative and positive. Take what is useful and discard the rest.

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: BadMouth on December 31, 2019, 07:24:42 pm
Probably already ordered, but I'd recommend a Sanwa JLW or Ms. Pacman anniversary stick for 4-way.  Although the JLF insert can be rotated for 4-way, it isn't great as one.

I'm not sure of the quality of your buttons, but be wary of the cheapest knockoffs of the Japanese style convex buttons.  I received similar looking buttons with an analog joystick that I wanted to test out.  The action of them isn't smooth.  You press down, then meet some resistance, then push past the resistance to activate the switch.  Real Sanwa or Semitsu buttons feel like one smooth motion from initial press to bottomed out.  Buy one good name brand button as a reference point.   They may be fine.  The good ones and bad ones look pretty much the same.

I used Semitsu buttons in a curved layout on my cab because I wanted a modern look.  On games that use more than 3 buttons I find myself looking down at my hands to reset my fingers more often than I did on my old x-arcade cp.  If I were doing it over, I'd go back to concave buttons in a straight 6 layout.  The concave shape gives your fingers a reference to center themselves and not wander off the edges.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: BadMouth on December 31, 2019, 07:34:54 pm
Oh, and there are no good flight stick games. Just Space Harrier, but that used an analog flight stick. (It's actually very playable with a standard joystick if you tweak the analog "digital" settings in MAME)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on December 31, 2019, 08:40:13 pm
Oh, and there are no good flight stick games.

For me it's primarily for Tron.  Might get me by for afterburner until I have a good analog stick attachment solution.  ;)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 01, 2020, 03:09:00 pm
So what are peoples opinions on wood?  Seems like the cab will be well over 300lbs with mdf and closer to 200 with ply so I'm leaning towards ply.  Why is ply harder to work with?  Will my 3/4 t-molding look odd if the ply thickness is less than 3/4?  I cant seem to find any that's the right thickness.

Some in other threads recommend Baltic birch but I cant find a place to get 8x4 sheets?

Regardless the ply type what can be done to prevent warping with humidity swings?

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: BadMouth on January 01, 2020, 03:31:59 pm
I have a love/hate relationship with MDF.  I used it on my cab because it's available and machines well.  If you go with MDF, paint the inside and edges, especially the bottom.  Unless it's outdoors or in a basement that floods, humidity won't be a problem.

Better quality plywood like baltic birch can be found at suppliers for kitchen cabinet builders if you can figure out where your local cabinet builders shop.  The stuff they sell has more layers and fewer voids than the big box store stuff.
Plywood probably is superior.  I assume the reason people might say it is harder to work with is chipping.  Use a blade with a high tooth count to minimize chipping.  Depending on how smooth it is, you may also have to skim the sides with glazing putty and sand before applying side art.

They make a tool that trims the t-molding flush with the edges of the wood, but I am ok with a very, very slight overhang.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on January 01, 2020, 03:41:17 pm
MDF is also easier to paint than Ply. Ply will require a lot of filling and sanding of the flat surfaces to get smooth, while mdf comes in smooth from the get-go.

Personally I think ply is the right way to go, regardless of the extra finishing work.
Lighter, less toxic dust.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 01, 2020, 03:50:17 pm
Opt, I dont mind spending a little extra time to get things right.

What kind of filler should I use on ply and how much do you think is needed for 3 8x4 sheets?

I was debating doing that kind of work and priming and painting before making any cuts.  Seemed like it would be easier to just do touch ups that way.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 01, 2020, 04:05:50 pm
What kind of wood are authentic classic cabinets like pacman. Centipede, etc. made from?
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 01, 2020, 04:07:16 pm
What kind of wood are authentic classic cabinets like pacman. Centipede, etc. made from?

Some, like Pac-Man are ply, while all the Atari cabs Iíve seen are heavy-ass MDF/particleboard. It depends.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on January 01, 2020, 05:58:06 pm
What kind of filler should I use on ply and how much do you think is needed for 3 8x4 sheets?
Bondo would be the most reliable. Itís an automobile filler that everyone uses for our hobby and is a bit tricky to use the first time you do it. But it drys fast and hard, and itís easy to sand and shape.

What kind of wood are authentic classic cabinets like pacman. Centipede, etc. made from?
Just as Yots said, it varies. I just finished a 90ís Konami cab restoration that is made up of particle board. Terrible stuff. Chips easy and is heavy af. My Robotron is made of ply, as well as my DK Jr.. I think Dynamoís are made of MDF, and I believe the Neo Geo cabs are as well. But donít quote me on that one.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: rablack97 on January 01, 2020, 06:48:42 pm
Nothing wrong with MDF, if you wear a mask.  If you do use it, go with an MDF core melamine.

I've had no issues with MDF holding screw, just use a a coarse thread screw, there's also specialty screws you can buy as well.

All of my cabs are MDF core melamine, mainly cause i refuse to paint another cabinet.  I spent more time sanding, filling and pulling splinters out of my hand etc.  The melamine layer is super smooth and is ready for graphics right out of the box.

Regardless a 4plyr cab is gonna be heavy no matter what  you use, every part adds weight.  My MDF core builds can be easily moved by one person no issue, without a dolley.  Minimizing inside space and shelving cuts down on the weight as well.

Also another idea if you want a lighter cab is go with 5/8 mdf or plywood and laminate both sides with 1/16 vertical cabinet grade laminate, that will get you 3/4 for your tmoulding.  Once you install your graphics and tmoulding, a sharp razor blade across the edge will make quick work of any overhang that you have.

But yes, you are going ambitious for a first build, and to Mike A's point shoving a crapload of games in that thing will get old really quick.  I've also found that a dedicated 4way stick is waste.  There are servo sticks and the kind where you can pull up and twist to go from 4 way to 8 way.  Dedicated 4ways don't tend to work up to expectations especially in wood panels.

The artwork is ok, no one is s real fan of the inifinite character mosaic :)

Also, take the pinball buttons off, playing pinball games one screen in a arcade cab sucks.

Before you invest in those guns, do your research the emulation for the compatible games isnt that great, people complain about the calibration and its either off or doesnt work at all.

Id take that 4 way out and put a real tron trigger in its place if your a tron junkie.

And bless your heart if your front end is hyperspin building the cab will be the easy part getting that software to work with all of those consoles, pc, games, mame etc seamlessly will push you into a state of F-this i'm buying a pandoras fight stick and call it a day.


Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 01, 2020, 10:45:10 pm
Here's a more detailed view of what I was planning for the internal structure of this thing.  Note the thickness differences to save a bit on weight.  I was thinking the box frame of 1.5" pine would help with additional stability when opening / closing the front cabinet door and make assembly a bit easier.  I had planned on gluing everything and only having screws used as temporary clamps for gluing or on removable panels where they are screwing into something like a t-nut to prevent wear.  The base is an idea for the under lighting though it may be overkill.  I figured I would need the lighting moved away from the outer edge a bit and able to mount so it points outward, hence the second smaller box frame on the bottom.  I also thought the squares on the inner corners is where I would connect the adjustable feet.   Cabinet dimensions without the CP are 24" deep x 31.5" wide x 71.5" tall.  Thoughts?

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/structure01.jpg)

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: jennifer on January 01, 2020, 11:21:05 pm
So what are peoples opinions on wood?  Seems like the cab will be well over 300lbs with mdf and closer to 200 with ply so I'm leaning towards ply.  Why is ply harder to work with?  Will my 3/4 t-molding look odd if the ply thickness is less than 3/4?  I cant seem to find any that's the right thickness.

Some in other threads recommend Baltic birch but I cant find a place to get 8x4 sheets?

Regardless the ply type what can be done to prevent warping with humidity swings?
The pieces once screwed together tend not to warp after the fact...Normally I personally buy 2x the wood a year in advance and let it cure before I cut it (extreme I know, and normally not necessary) as long as the moisture content is relatively low your good to go...Secretly Jennifer has been experimenting with Coosa board (a carbon fiber ply like substance) Normally used in boat construction that shows incredible promise in moisture control,  absorption rates, and since it is a ply quite workable with wood tooling (although blades dull quickly) and has excellent screw retention.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 01, 2020, 11:24:15 pm
You can see that by changing both the angle of the buttons and sticks as well as the shape of the panel affects the angle at which players play and of course whether or not they bump into each other.

Thank you for posting the visual!  That definitely explains things better than words.  I agree that the play-ability and ergonomics outweighs aesthetic.  That's why you'll note that my layout isn't simply symmetrical.  I've been shuffling a lot of buttons and controls around.

I had done a digital test with bipeds early on with this panel design as a starting point and I admit I'm not sold on it yet.  The problem I have with the 90 degree turn on the outer players is the severe compromise on viewing angle for a little elbow room.  That bothers me more than squishing against someone.  There's gotta be a better happy medium somewhere...

I'm hoping to do several tests both digitally and physically to prove out the ergonomics and viewing angles to find a suitable solution.  I'll likely start up a whole category in this thread just focused on the control panel when I get to that point.  For the moment, hopefully you notice that the layout is modified from what others like Chance had used.  I'm trying to carefully think about button access from each players perspective and in different combinations for different game types.  When I get the core cabinet up. I plan on doing a fast CP top to physically test it out, especially from P3 / P4.  Another unknown is how much I'll end up whacking other controls trying to use the trackball for games like Marble Madness and Golden Tee.   I tried to do some guess work based on some simple measurements of how far my hand moved but nothing beats testing a physical working prototype.

...drop the pinball buttons...

Regarding the pinball buttons, I'm not sure I'll get into pinball on this either, but figured I'd give it a shot.  I did develop some nice console pinball games in the past so I know there's hope for it being enjoyable...at least for me.  ;)
 Worst case I planned on doubling those controls up as volume controls when holding the function button down (front plunger button).  I already bought 2 sets of buttons for them.  One set are black classic Happ style for more authentic feel. and the others are the blue eclipse style in the renders.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 02, 2020, 12:26:41 am
The side viewing angles arenít as severe as you think theyíre going to be. People are standing back away from the screen, after all!
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on January 02, 2020, 12:35:53 am
Word of advice, donít use Chance as your arcade messiah. He just regurgitated information siphoned off other memberís projects here, then practically disowned the forum to promote his YouTube channel posing like heís an authority on the subject matter. This is one of the major issues with why people keep propagating his bad CP design. The guy doesnít even post here anymore other than to respond to bumps to his own threads.

There are multiple other projects here that have way better examples on building a scratch cab. Check out the hall of fame sticky. Many of the projects there have some great ideas and themes, and are far better examples for reference.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: jennifer on January 02, 2020, 02:08:24 am
Never really thought about it, But it does seem to explain the desire, that and the lure of one machine that does everything but make toast...personally, I think his design isn't far off the mark, but that insistent use of plexi kills the machines soul, something about real glass and steel that just lights up the night.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 02, 2020, 01:01:29 pm
Word of advice, donít use Chance as your arcade messiah. He just regurgitated information siphoned off other memberís projects here, then practically disowned the forum to promote his YouTube channel posing like heís an authority on the subject matter. This is one of the major issues with why people keep propagating his bad CP design. The guy doesnít even post here anymore other than to respond to bumps to his own threads.

There are multiple other projects here that have way better examples on building a scratch cab. Check out the hall of fame sticky. Many of the projects there have some great ideas and themes, and are far better examples for reference.

Clearly there is some friction with that project around here. :(  I had no idea and am not at all saying any one project is the superior solution to reference.  Fact of the matter is, that's just where google routed me back when I was searching 4 player cabinet designs years ago.  I tried looking at others but several in the hall of fame and elsewhere lack photos.  They all point to photobucket urls that don't seem to work anymore. :/ .  I'm also not sure there's nearly as many 4 player builds to reference as 2, so that limited my searching.

Bottom line, I don't think anyone on a forum like this should assume their contributions didn't some how influence everyone around here.  I'm looking to the community for help and wisdom.  I assumed he brought a few things of his own to the table, but even if not, there's no way I would know that, and it doesn't make it any less relevant to helping others.  I simply referenced what caught my attention back then and nothing more.  I'll try to make that more clear in my intro post.  If someone covered something well in an existing post, please link me to it.  One of my goals is to consolidate that information into one place to make it easier for everyone to find in one comprehensive build thread.

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 02, 2020, 01:08:01 pm
Never really thought about it, But it does seem to explain the desire, that and the lure of one machine that does everything but make toast...personally, I think his design isn't far off the mark, but that insistent use of plexi kills the machines soul, something about real glass and steel that just lights up the night.

You lost me?  Was this intended for a different thread?  I don't follow the context?
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: UnclearHermit on January 02, 2020, 04:01:25 pm

Clearly there is some friction with that project around here.

And I'm not entirely sure why.  There are some observations about the placement of the four players and I'm sure there's a lot to be learned from the wisdom of others on that matter.  But there's also a lot of great information and attention to detail in that project.  I remember when I first came across it and nearly didn't read the thread because the cabinet design wasn't really to my taste, but the thread is a great read and the cabinet is a quality product.  It also lead me on to check his other projects, which gave me a huge amount of information that I'm using in my own build (and he's still providing input on that thread).  Take what you can from a variety of cabinets on here, but don't ignore Chance's projects because there's a lot to be learned from them.
Title: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 02, 2020, 04:36:23 pm

Clearly there is some friction with that project around here.

And I'm not entirely sure why.  There are some observations about the placement of the four players and I'm sure there's a lot to be learned from the wisdom of others on that matter.  But there's also a lot of great information and attention to detail in that project.  I remember when I first came across it and nearly didn't read the thread because the cabinet design wasn't really to my taste, but the thread is a great read and the cabinet is a quality product.  It also lead me on to check his other projects, which gave me a huge amount of information that I'm using in my own build (and he's still providing input on that thread).  Take what you can from a variety of cabinets on here, but don't ignore Chance's projects because there's a lot to be learned from them.

It goes a lot deeper than just simply the cab and itís not worth rehashing. The problem is that people see that cab and project and lock on to it without seeing what else is out there or the cons of that design. They fall in love with the bling and the thought of a 4 player cab and never get deeper than that until the ďproject announcementĒ phase, and by then itís too late to give feedback without feelings getting bruised.

I chat with Chance from time to time off this site. I hope he comes to ZapCon one day. But Iím not a fan of the cab (well, really just the control panel shape). You can learn a lot from his thread. But itís not the end all/be all that some new builders think it is.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: jennifer on January 02, 2020, 11:06:52 pm
Never really thought about it, But it does seem to explain the desire, that and the lure of one machine that does everything but make toast...personally, I think his design isn't far off the mark, but that insistent use of plexi kills the machines soul, something about real glass and steel that just lights up the night.

You lost me?  Was this intended for a different thread?  I don't follow the context?
I was talking to Opt2...Might as well be in a different thread since it was so lost on you.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Arroyo on January 02, 2020, 11:36:32 pm
First off, that is some slick cad work.  If you bring that level of detail to your other skill development your cab will be excellent.

I think Iím in the same boat as you.  Started off here with a Google search wanted the 4 player and stumbled on the cab.  I posted that example of the 4 player angles from my research that Scott posted so Iíve spent a lot of time thinking over this thing.

Itís clear youíve got an eye for detail and Iíd push you to come up with something on your own.  Not because I donít like Chanceís stuff, like you heís documentation got me going on mine.  Rather itís clear you have the skills to design something on your own, and I know that would suck and be a lot of work but I think youíd look back and be glad you can call it your own.

I only say this cause as someone knee deep in a build, itís a lot of work, and you wonít change what you are doing once you commit to something, so just be sure you like what you go with. 

We need more creativity around here these days and I think youíve got the chops to do it.

Subscribed!
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 03, 2020, 01:07:52 am
We need more creativity around here these days and I think youíve got the chops to do it.

Subscribed!

Thanks Arroyo!  I needed that about now.  :)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on January 03, 2020, 09:38:47 am
On the subject of console games on arcade cabinets; I went all-in on my cabinet's game selection as well with stuff from the 8/16-bit era, Playstation, Dreamcast, etc. along side wired USB controllers. It's certainly a mixed bag, but I'd say on the whole in my own set up it wasn't detrimental to the function of the system. I think there are enough arcade-like console games to be worth including. Similarly, my kids were often happy to play longer console games on a stool, elbows on the control panel, holding a wired controller.

The only real frustration with multiple systems that we ever ran into was my choice of front-end. I like the over-the-top flashiness of Hyperspin and the animated game selections screens it supported. At the time it didn't support mixing systems on a single selection menu, so having the kids struggled a little with remembering which submenu the games they liked were in. When I built a console-dedicated emulation computer for the family room TV, I found Emulation Station supported a favorites menu that mixes multiple systems' items.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 03, 2020, 12:51:39 pm
that CP design, while having a fun shape is ergonomically bad for multiplayer. Basically it comes down to the P3 elbow interfering with P1ís joystick, and P4ís elbow getting in the way of P2ís button space.

I put my bipeds back in the scene to test and to no surprise found some things I needed to adjust.  When it comes to general spacing concerns, this isn't terrible, but I'm not done yet either.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-02-2020/mame-arcade-4p-controls-with-players01.jpg)

The bigger problem I see with the "aircraft carrier" look is the placement on some of the controls in the original concept.  Even with my revisions I see issues to fix now.  Notice Player 3 (far left) needed the buttons moved down to be more accessible for instance given their right arm won't have the same reach.  Likewise P4 (far right) needs the joystick to be lower to accommodate the angle they stand at.  I can further understand from this why a cabinet like X-Men has all the button orientation turning as you work your way around the cabinet.   Now obviously the size of the person is a big factor here too.  I'm solving for my family scenario and trying to keep this cab as small as possible.

Surprisingly CP height may still be a consideration for me to adjust from this test.  I'm going to do further tests with a mix of kid sized bipeds and adults to try to dial it in.  I remember searching forums far and wide for average CP heights on classic machines.  If I remember correctly it was something like 34"-36" at the lowest point?  These bipeds are just under 6ft tall and would struggle putting their palm flat on the CP.


Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: pbj on January 03, 2020, 01:01:31 pm
If you swing player 3 and 4 buttons out more, you can fit more obese skeletons around your panel easily.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 03, 2020, 01:30:50 pm
Poor player 3 looks uncomfortable, tucked in that alcove. Do they really have to keep their arms close to their body like that?

Itís good youíre doing your homework, though.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: arfink on January 03, 2020, 08:24:07 pm
Your mockups certainly look prettier than many of the other gargantuan 4p panels that have been done in years past. Also +1 for real coin door.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: BadMouth on January 03, 2020, 11:05:22 pm
Nothing beats real life mockups, preferably functional ones.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 05, 2020, 06:30:26 pm
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-02-2020/mame-arcade-4p-controls-with-players03.jpg)

Ok, here's my latest revision to the CP.  Please check my work and see if I'm missing anything.

This is a modification past my previous one to the "aircraft carrier" design.  I abandoned that but tried to keep some of the appealing aspects.  Several things have changed that I think solve the problems a lot better.  Good luck naming this shape if it proves to work well.  ;)

- Overall the dimensions are the same as before (technically a hair less wide).  This should keep it fitting a standard 8x4 sheet...hopefully.
- Player 3 and 4 are angled and pushed as far down towards player 1/2 as possible, while keeping an inviting angle to stand against vs a pointy box corner.
- Button positioning / orientation and joysticks have moved a bit.
- All players should have enough room for a palm rest
- Viewing angle is maximized for Players 3 and 4.
- Plenty of room in between players for even more drastically bent elbows and people of various sizes.
- I keep just enough room for pinball buttons and pushed them down more so I can vertically stack them with an offset as I originally wanted.  They will be hidden from the top and theres a slight chamfered edge to rest your hand against.
- There's about a 6inch radius from the center of the trackball before you risk running into anything.  With a 3 inch ball that means 9 inches of motion.
- I still maintain a lip around the top of the CP, but it's reduced to 1/2 inch.
- Green lines between the joysticks and buttons measure at least 3 11/16ths to keep with the slagcoin japanese layout distances.

Thoughts?

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 05, 2020, 06:34:08 pm
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-02-2020/mame-arcade-4p-controls-with-players03.jpg)

Ok, here's my latest revision to the CP.  Please check my work and see if I'm missing anything.

This is a modification past my previous one to the "aircraft carrier" design.  Several things have changed that I think solve the problems a lot better.

- Overall the dimensions are the same as before (technically a hair less wide).  This should keep it fitting a standard 8x4 sheet...hopefully.
- Player 3 and 4 are angled and pushed as far down towards player 1/2 as possible.
- Button positioning / orientation and joysticks have moved a bit.
- All players should have enough room for a palm rest
- Viewing angle is maximized for Players 3 and 4.
- Plenty of room in between players for even more drastically bent elbows and people of various sizes.
- I keep just enough room for pinball buttons and pushed them down more so I can vertically stack them with an offset as I originally wanted.
- There's about a 6inch radius from the center of the trackball before you risk running into anything.  With a 3 inch ball that means 9 inches of motion.
- I still maintain a lip around the top of the CP, but it's reduced to 1/2 inch.
- Green lines between the joysticks and buttons measure at least 3 11/16ths to keep with the slagcoin japanese layout distances.

Thoughts?

Much better. P3 doesnít look like heís being punished anymore.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: dougan78 on January 05, 2020, 06:46:02 pm
Player 3 on the left it may not be a bad idea to move the buttons up.    When you sit and play at that position which I often do, itís nice to have the ability to rest your wrist or arm on the cp between you and player 1.  My first cp had the buttons for 3 and 4 closer to the edges but was thanked on my second build by people for having more room to rest arms and wrists.

Looks great though nice work!
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 05, 2020, 07:24:28 pm
Player 3 on the left it may not be a bad idea to move the buttons up.    When you sit and play at that position which I often do, itís nice to have the ability to rest your wrist or arm on the cp between you and player 1.  My first cp had the buttons for 3 and 4 closer to the edges but was thanked on my second build by people for having more room to rest arms and wrists.

Looks great though nice work!

Good point - thatís why the standard Midway/Konami 4p panel is superior to any cut-corner job.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 08, 2020, 11:52:16 am
Player 3 on the left it may not be a bad idea to move the buttons up.    When you sit and play at that position which I often do, itís nice to have the ability to rest your wrist or arm on the cp between you and player 1.  My first cp had the buttons for 3 and 4 closer to the edges but was thanked on my second build by people for having more room to rest arms and wrists.

Looks great though nice work!

Thanks for the feedback dougan.  I double checked and sure enough my measurement was off.  Based on my test from the bottom first button center to the edge of the panel I'm going for at least 4.5" for a decent wrist rest.  The compromise of moving it further up the panel is changing the approach angle of the player and distance from the screen.  It's not a mile off or anything so I need to do a little bit of shuffling pushing it up some on ALL the players.  Next update today will fix all that and show the panel from multiple angles.

Side note, I'm also playing with some revision ideas on the artwork.  Really like some elements of The Grid project concept where the bottom artwork wraps around the sides.  Also testing out some concepts to make the characters even more cohesive in style and tie it all closer with a pixel theme.  The title of the cab may change too.  I had another idea in mind but we'll see.  I'm trying not to get TOO caught up in art right now as my plan is still to build the cab and do more physical play tests with the CP before I finalize artwork.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 08, 2020, 04:31:50 pm
On another note, have any other projects come up with a good way to add a ring light to the base of a spinner and a flight stick?  I have some concepts but love to see what others have done.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on January 08, 2020, 05:18:53 pm
Good point - thatís why the standard Midway/Konami 4p panel is superior to any cut-corner job.

 :stupid
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 20, 2020, 02:49:20 pm
I've been playing around more with the control panel trying to test out positions as best I could digitally and decided it's time for some physical prototype testing.

First I went to home depot and picked up some of the extra heavy duty large boxes as these were conveniently 24" wide.  Two of those sides together will get me to the 48" width of the CP.  I don't think the single layer boxes they sell in similar size would have been strong enough to hold everything in place well.  My initial thought was to double up on the heavy layer for even better support.  I tried laying down hot glue but the surface area was too big.  By the time I had it reasonably covered, the glue was drying too fast.  I decided to roll with just the original thickness of the extra heavy cardboard and try it out.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cardboard01.jpg)

After getting the boxes all cut into workable pieces I went back to my digital model to write down measurements from the outer edges to each button and joystick center point.  This was painfully slow and hard to make sure I was accurate.  Once I had a joystick and related button plotted for a player I decided to try to use the printed controller layout template to "speed things up".  This proved to be tricky as well.  Since you can't see through it, I found it hard to get it lined up properly with the starting points.  I also found that because the center holes were being marked with a not so great pencil, it left for roughly a 16th to an 8th of variability in the marks, which is problematic further down the road.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cardboard02.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cardboard03.jpg)

Initially I ended up using slightly too large of a forstner bit, which gave too much wiggle room to the buttons, making it harder to align them properly.  I also discovered that going slow with cardboard and power tools doesn't seem to work well.  It ended up tearing more of the edges and moving slightly out of alignment as I went.

After I found a smaller bit that was a much closer fit to the buttons I was using, I tried again on the second half of the panel.  This time I tried the drill at max speed before plunging in, and that seemed to work a lot better.

I also realized after starting to put in the controls that some of my measurements were off. :(  Simple things from my ruler sliding slightly over a large area can make for big problems.  The way I notated my measurements split between the panels also made it a little more confusing.  In a couple instances I measured from the wrong side of the CP edge which threw things off.  That's exactly why I wanted to start with some simple test runs though.  Hopefully as I keep going I can refine my process and avoid these mistakes by the time I get to the real construction.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cp-height01.jpg)

Getting a way of propping this thing up at the proper height proved to be very challenging.  Fortunately between some kid toy storage furniture, additional plastic bins, and some wooden rail road tracks I was able to get it very close to the proper height (~38 1/4").

Then I did a bunch of position tests between myself and some of my kids.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest01.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest02.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest03.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest04.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest05.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest06.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest07.jpg)


After some quick measuring I realized that the side flaps on the box, when cut in half, were perfect for a bulky arm and the correct length to go from finger tip to elbow.  This let me make some simple test arms to attach, aligning based on my real arm positions.  Then I could physically test from the side positions for P3 and P4 more effectively.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest08.jpg)

I refined several things about the CP layout from these simple tests.  I may end up making one more CP from cardboard with the refined layout for practice and to be completely sure I like the adjustments.  I payed particular close attention to how easy it was for my youngest to reach the dedicated 4 way classic controls in the back center, as well as trying to come up with adjustments to allow more room for aggressive side to side movements with the trackball without whacking the P2 joystick.  My conclusion was that if I make the CP 2 inches deeper, I can move the trackball down and a little to the left and should have just enough clearance (if your arm is aligned with it) to where your finger tips just miss the P2 joystick with an aggressive move to the right.  I also moved player 1 and 2 up by a half inch I believe.

I looked at other games like Missile Command to see how much room was between their trackball and the right edge, and it wasn't a lot.  This adjustment gives more room.  A game like centipede. and most of the trackball centric games, seem to have the ball centered in the CP with a ton of room on either side.  Replicating that with this layout is tough, but I'm hoping these adjustments will do the trick.  I plan on making a working CP to test this theory soon.  It's games like Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, and Golden Tee that will require maximum agility.  I've looked at so many different custom panels. both 2 and 4 player and scratch my head every time when I see the trackball centered on the panel with less than 6 inches of space to the nearest joystick.  Not sure what games they plan on supporting with that limited space?


Next I wanted to focus more on the pinball controls.  If I'm going to bother to have them, I want it to feel right.  I used to have a ton of measurements from when I visited the Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas to make the digital versions of the tables, but sadly don't think I have them anymore.  From what I could gather on google, the average width of the playfield should be around 22.5" wide.   As is the buttons would be 30" apart, which is doable for an adult but feels really wide and unnatural to a real table.  It's also not great for kids.  Given my adjustments and desire to be able to bring the trackball down more, it gave me an excuse to adjust these to be the proper distance.

Here you can see I've moved them inward so they are exactly 22.5" apart.  This feels pretty good.  Given the height I'm not sure I would comfortably wrap my hand around the side of the lower part of the panel to play, but if I simple free hang or use my thumbs as anchors on the top of the CP, it seemed like it would work well.  I may adjust these a bit more yet and go with an even vertical alignment on the buttons.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/01-18-2020/cptest09.jpg)

Digitally, this is what the CP would look like with all these new adjustments.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-18-2020/cp-new01.jpg)
(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-18-2020/cp-new02.jpg)

I may still play with the design a bit more too once I put it back on the arcade.  I'm trying to find an interesting shape that doesn't impact any of the layout requirements, and at the same time is hopefully something I can actually pull off.


Next steps for me is trying to figure out a way to get my TV at the correct height and angle so I can do some functional play tests and make sure I'm happy with the viewing angles for P3 and P4.

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 20, 2020, 02:57:39 pm
I will say this - no one can accuse you of not doing your research! :cheers
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on January 20, 2020, 03:17:05 pm
Fantastic prototyping.  This is exactly how it should be done!  Anything that has to do with human interfacing and ergonomics should be prototyped IRL before any wood is cut.
Good on you for doing this initial phase and getting the "focus group" involved.  :)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 20, 2020, 05:15:35 pm
Thanks guys.   ;D

One concern I've had even before extending the depth of the CP is the tip ratio.  I don't know how I can calculate this, but how do I know it wouldn't be easy for a person (or 4) to start to tip the cabinet during play if they're leaning into it or pushing down for some reason?

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-18-2020/cp-tip01.jpg)

This ties into my idea for extending the CP with some sort of modular attachment base that I can strap down a steering wheel or analog flight stick to when needed.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-18-2020/cp-extension01.jpg)




Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on January 20, 2020, 05:35:00 pm
Thanks guys.   ;D

One concern I've had even before extending the depth of the CP is the tip ratio.  I don't know how I can calculate this, but how do I know it wouldn't be easy for a person (or 4) to start to tip the cabinet during play if they're leaning into it or pushing down for some reason?

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-18-2020/cp-tip01.jpg)

This ties into my idea for extending the CP with some sort of modular attachment base that I can strap down a steering wheel or analog flight stick to when needed.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/01-18-2020/cp-extension01.jpg)

I wouldnít do that, especially with a thin cabinet. If youíre going to do that, strap it to the wall.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: opt2not on January 20, 2020, 05:58:42 pm
^ agreed.

If youíre set on wanting swappable controls, Iíd figure out a solution for swapping the existing CP.
Molex connectors for quick disconnecting, maybe a latch solution for quickly pulling off the CP top.

Japanese sit-down cabinets ( New Astro City, Blast City, etc..) could be your inspiration here. They have detachable panels that are screwed to the housing and have AMP connectors for connecting the controls. I can swap a full panel in <5mins. 
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: nexusmtz on January 21, 2020, 03:08:51 am
...Given the height I'm not sure I would comfortably wrap my hand around the side of the lower part of the panel to play, but if I simple free hang or use my thumbs as anchors on the top of the CP, it seemed like it would work well.  I may adjust these a bit more yet and go with an even vertical alignment on the buttons.
Any chance a thumb hook of some sort above the pinball buttons would help? It would move the buttons in and down some, but might solve the free hang problem.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: javeryh on January 21, 2020, 09:12:54 am
Love the cardboard mock-ups!  Prototyping the CP is essential, IMO.  Get it exactly how you think you want it then sleep on it for a few days and refine if necessary.  Do the same thing with the artwork once you get there.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Arroyo on January 23, 2020, 12:03:18 am
I'd agree that's it's great that you are prototyping with the cardboard.  Nothing like feeling it out in IRL.  You are now butting up against what I believe is every Frankenpanel owners biggest challenge, balancing the many controls with the ergonomics/aesthetics/functionality of a design. 

I grappled with a lot of what you are going through, moving things all over the place. 

With regards to your question of tipping.  This took me a long while to figure out, but after awhile got clear.  Think of it as a teeter totter.  Your fulcrum point (teeter totter base), is your closest leg leveler/castor.  The further out you get from it the more leverage a person/child can apply weight and try to tip it over.  It's fine if the weight on the other side of that fulcrum is heavy (meaning you have more weight on the other side of the leg leveler/castor), however if your cab is light and the control panel sticks out far past your closest point on the ground then it becomes easier to tip.....

This leads to the next thought.  Although it may make sense to move that track ball further away from the joysticks to create clearance, it creates a lot more depth, and subsequently a greater probability of tipping.  In playing trackball games I can think of only one game that some people need the clearance to smack the trackball hard and need that, and that's Golden Tee.  Every other trackball game is more subtle movements, and I don't know if it's worth creating a whole control panel scheme based on that one game  :dunno.  The other option is to create a deeper cab (which originals were anyway), and then your fulcrum point gets pushed out and you can create more depth in your control panel and be covered.

Anyway good work on the research.  Keep it up.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: newmanfamilyvlogs on January 24, 2020, 10:04:53 am
If the machine ends up that front-heavy, you might also be able to counter-balance it with some removable weights on the inside. Something like a pair of 10lbs weight plates hanging on hooks on the back wall.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on January 24, 2020, 10:14:52 am
This is why, in addition to using CRTs, original arcade games were not thin profile. It doesn't do you much good to save space under the CP by overhanging it. Just extend the bottom half of the cab out further to support the CP better. As long as you don't extend past the CP it takes up the same amount of floor space. Look at an original TMNT cab. It is a 4 player cab that is 27 or 28 inches wide with the CP removed. You could sit on the CP and it will not tip even with the CRT removed.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on January 24, 2020, 12:46:59 pm
Thanks everyone for the thoughts on the tipping concern.  The counter balance to simply making everything bigger and heavier are some of my key restrictions in the original design requirements.

- I have to be able to fit it through 28" wide doors. (that's with doors removed)
- I have to be able to move it up and down my basement stairs by myself (with a dolly?).
- I'm trying to avoid having to completely take the thing apart to move it around. (otherwise screws and a lot of assembly time would solve most of this)

So step one was to make sure the CP can be removed fairly easily.
Given the width to fit the TV, and a desire for a little wiggle room on components so they can be swapped out easily down the road when they fail, that left me forced with 32"s wide from the front.  So to counter that and help keep it from looking so monstrously huge and get it through doors, I made the depth 24" in the current design.  That also makes both side panels nicely fit a 97x49 sheet of MDF.  Now I'm still considering a baltic birch option if I can find it and the price is right but that may also shrink my raw material size even more.  Originally I was hoping to get this all in 2 sheets but its looking more like 3 already.  Less concerned about total sheets as long as the wood cost isn't crazy.

So all that said, I'd be comfortable extending some of the base area depth out a couple inches for additional CP support if needed.  I'm just not sure that will make or break the tip factor.  I also assume others who have built slim 4 player cabinets haven't have a tipping problem because I haven't seen it called out.  If the design is flawed I'd sure like to catch it up front.

I did consider adding some sort of removable weight as an option.  It might still be a good idea to keep it portable but solve any balance concern?

It would be awesome if anyone reading with a slim 4 player cab could chime in on any tipping / wobble concerns!


As for the additional controller extension...I agree that really makes it look easily tipped.  I'm trying to avoid swapping out the CP entirely as kids definitely won't be doing that.  Might end up being an additional folding table of some kind they can quickly setup and plug the controller into the front USB ports.   :dunno



Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: BadMouth on January 24, 2020, 08:52:01 pm
Concerning moving it up or down steps, the "Bigfoot" hand truck from harbor freight rolls over stairs fairly well.
https://www.harborfreight.com/700-lb-Capacity-Bigfoot-Hand-Truck-62900.html


Concerning it tipping, just plan on anchoring it to the wall and call it good.  That's my $.02
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: javeryh on January 27, 2020, 09:09:00 am
Concerning moving it up or down steps, the "Bigfoot" hand truck from harbor freight rolls over stairs fairly well.
https://www.harborfreight.com/700-lb-Capacity-Bigfoot-Hand-Truck-62900.html


Concerning it tipping, just plan on anchoring it to the wall and call it good.  That's my $.02

I've got a dolly like that for moving cabinets around.  Works great and makes stairs a LOT easier.

Agreed on anchoring it to the wall to prevent tipping.  Someone would have to sit or pull on the CP to get it to come out of the wall if you anchor it properly.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on February 18, 2020, 10:01:03 pm
Been a while since an update, so here goes:

Surprisingly busy last couple of months for me, so to no surprise things didn't get done as fast as I'd hoped.   I did make some progress on research and refinement items with the CP and display.

A working prototype (sort of):

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/prototype-A01.jpg)

I'm not able to easily hook up the main controls on this with all the stuff I'm using underneath to hold it up at the moment, so I focused tests around the trackball, and viewing angles for the outer players.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/joystick-wires01.jpg)
After comparing the wiring harnesses that came with my joysticks I was a bit surprised to find the one I ordered off ebay came with a nice long 19.5" harness while the others I got from arcade renovations were only 11.5" long.   Neither of these will reach where the controller was going to be.  :/  I was hoping not to have to buy a heat gun and shrink tubing to extend wires.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/prototype-A02.jpg)
The viewing angle from P4 isn't too bad.  This is me matching the angle of the CP top.


TRACKBALL TESTING!:
==============

I hooked this up and tested every major trackball game I could find.  So far I'm pleased with the results.  I think I only very lightly bumped the P2 joystick once as I was adjusting my play.  Games like Marble Madness and Crystal Castles worked well.  Even Golden Tee tested out great with no joystick collisions.  I come mighty close though so I think I would think twice before having less than about 5 inches of room from the edge of the ball in any given direction.  I also found that a less experienced player (like my youngest daughter) tended to bump the P2 stick a little more frequent with games like Marble Madness, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

The best feedback was all of my kids asking me when they could play more arcade games. :)

So with those tests in mind I'm going to make a few more tweaks to the model and probably not extend it out an additional 2 inches.  Not doing the extension poses some challenge with the pinball button placement though....so I've got some design work to do.

I was out of town this past weekend and managed to stop by a big indorr / outdoor arcade in Manitou Springs, CO that I've been to a few times now.  I wanted to look at a few more details in person and try to compare the feel on some of the joysticks (although they're all pretty warn out).

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/arcade-reference01.jpg)
I looked at things like joystick height relative to the control panel top, and reminded myself what a true 4 way felt like.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/arcade-reference06.jpg)
Looked at distances on Centipede and trackball height.  Sadly it was the only trackball game I could find in the place.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/arcade-reference07.jpg)
Flightstick and Spinner reference.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/arcade-reference08.jpg)
An interesting coin slot mechanism on the CP.  Never seen this before...

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/arcade-reference09.jpg)
I couldn't pass up a shot with Tron.  :)  Now I really take notice of how low the CP is.


(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/02-18-2020/ultrastik360-fs01.jpg)
Lastly, I just got in my order for the new Ultrastick 360 Flight Stick model.  I'm anxious to try this out as a better solution for analog games like Afterburner while hopefully working well for games like Tron as well.  Should fit perfectly where I had the mini grip stick.


Kind of hard figuring out next steps to stay productive but I'm going to continue with CP refinement and probably attempt to build that first before everything else.  Hopefully I can find time to make that happen soon.  I have a decent 3/4 inch ply sheet with some sort of white laminent from getting our kitchen overhauled that I might use as a test run.  That way if I mess up too much, it's really no loss and hopefully I can learn from it.  Maybe it'll even work as the final if it turns out and vinyl print sticks to it.


Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Arroyo on February 18, 2020, 11:57:42 pm
Kind of hard figuring out next steps to stay productive but I'm going to continue with CP refinement and probably attempt to build that first before everything else.

Donít do it!!!  Many a great projects were killed cause the builder finished the control panel and started playing games.

Save the control panel for last!
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on February 29, 2020, 06:30:16 pm
A few weeks ago when my brother in law stopped by, I showed him my prototype CP and let him play a few games with the trackball.  I noticed that he tended to use his finger tips at the center of the trackball and occasionally rested his wrist just below the ball.  This worked with the initial prototype layout but wouldn't be possible if I moved the trackball down further like I was contemplating.  At least you would be losing a wrist rest there...

This leads me to the question:

To those who play trackball games, what is your typical play style?
Vote TB 1. Fingertips on the center area of the ball with your wrist sometimes or always resting just below the ball
Vote TB 2. Palm rested on the center of the ball utilizing more arm movement
Vote TB 3 Some mix of the two depending on the game
Vote TB 4 Some other technique (Please Describe)

I found myself using more of my palms for games like Marble Madness and Golden Tee.

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: yotsuya on February 29, 2020, 07:57:11 pm
TB 1
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Arroyo on February 29, 2020, 09:21:55 pm
Agreed TB1, at least thatís how I play all track ball games except Golden Tee.  For that one I place the fingers on the top part of the support plate and use my thumbs to generate the power.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: nexusmtz on March 01, 2020, 04:35:18 pm
TB1, except the fling games. (but I wouldn't quite call those TB2)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on March 16, 2020, 02:33:37 pm
I placed another order for some more electrical accessories and a heat gun.  Time for some woodworking questions I haven't fully solved in my designs yet. 

I need all you drawer and cabinet maker experts advise.

The front coin door section is intended to have a drawer above it, and the lower half is a larger cabinet door for storage / easier access to accessories like steering wheels / pedals / pc access when I get there.

I've not yet figured out how to make these accessible without an exposed door handle, and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time.  I'm trying to keep it feeling as much like a legit front of an arcade as possible.  The drawer above is to house the keyboard / mouse, which won't be used often, BUT it will also house USb controllers that will get used a lot... so it validates the need more in my eyes.

The idea I had for the main front door was to leave about a 1/2 inch lip at the bottom which would meet up with the base of the cabinet, so it can be colored the same to help hide it and given its on the ground it's less noticeable.  I thought MAYBE I could pull on that easily enough to open and close it with some sort of stiff pull hinges.  Needs to be somewhat kid friendly too.  I'd also like to figure out a locking mechanism so it doesn't flop open in transport

Similar deal with the top sliding drawer.  I have the slides already but am not sure how I can hide a handle.  I figure this drawer will get a lot more action then the bottom cabinet drawer so it should be built to last and kid friendly.  Also not sure how I can have some sort of lock to keep it in place during transport.

Any suggestions?

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on March 16, 2020, 02:40:00 pm
Quote
and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time

Do you plan on passing this cabinet along for like 1000 generations?
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on March 16, 2020, 02:44:38 pm
Quote
and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time

Do you plan on passing this cabinet along for like 1000 generations?

Maybe? :)  I've only ever experienced cheap magnet doors on entertainment centers and haven't been impressed with their grab.  The other consideration is the weight of the door with the coin door on it.  If magnets are viable with a better quality part I'm all ears.... although lasting less than 1000 years could be a deal breaker. ;)



Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on March 16, 2020, 02:48:09 pm
I use rare earth magnets to hold oak plaques to a steel wall. They have great holding power.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Wzrd0803 on March 16, 2020, 04:18:11 pm
Mostly TB1 but sometimes TB2 for games like Missile Command.

Opinion:  You're trying to cram too many things on 1 control panel.

Why the extra joystick and buttons in the middle next to the spinner?

I would make P2 and P3 have 6 buttons each, move P3 joystick more to the right and put 2 buttons to the right of the trackball for trackball games.

Remove the joystick in the middle which is next to the spinner and the buttons and only put 2 buttons next to the spinner for games like Tempest, Archanoid, etc.


Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on March 23, 2020, 12:09:31 pm
Why the extra joystick and buttons in the middle next to the spinner?
Dedicated 4 way controller for more authentic feel on classic games.

I would make P2 and P3 have 6 buttons each, move P3 joystick more to the right and put 2 buttons to the right of the trackball for trackball games.
Why would Player 3 need 6 buttons?  What arcade game would utilize it?

Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on March 23, 2020, 12:21:08 pm
Bumping my current questions about hidden drawers and cabinets: 
Maybe there's another build link someone can point me to where someone did something similar?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161694.msg1709769.html#msg1709769 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161694.msg1709769.html#msg1709769)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on March 23, 2020, 12:33:55 pm
Hinge the front panel on one side. Latch it shut with a control panel latch on the other side, inside the cab.

You can reach in through the coin door to unlatch it.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: KenToad on March 24, 2020, 01:06:55 pm
I made a 4 player pedestal with a similar layout to your CP. I use the pinball buttons all the time. Desktop VPX is amazing!

My main issue is that my kids are polygon snobs. Generally, they don't go for 2D games with digital controls. And they like new games. They are 9 and 13 years old, so maybe that will change, or maybe they won't embrace retro until they're my age and it will be Switch games or PS2 for my son, since that is one of his favorite consoles.

If you want to get a sense of how much room there is for each player, on the 3rd page of the build thread, there is a picture with 4 kids playing the Simpsons arcade.

I've been very satisfied with the layout of my aircraft carrier, although its large and multipurpose design isn't for everyone. I'm typing on it right now to make this post. Yep, it's also a desk. With the width of the peninsula matching the width of a pinball machine, I can easily type on a full-sized keyboard and have room to rest my wrists.

When he's not on the couch across the room, my son often puts his feet up on the deck while he's playing games on PS3 or on Steam with wireless controllers. Even  though the arcade controls are the least used part of the whole project, I'm just glad it gets used, one way or another, because it seems like only people of a narrow age range want to play arcade games at all, minus playing maybe a few minutes of Frogger or some other classic.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,154133.0.html

Good luck with finishing your project! It looks really good so far.
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: vertexguy on March 29, 2020, 05:09:23 pm
Here's a very minor update.  I ordered a heat gun and tubing since it became clear that I would inevitably need to extend wiring harnesses for the controls to properly reach the ipac on a 4 player cab.  I'm not very good with a soldering iron, but hoping I can watch a few videos and improve enough to twist, solder, and cover the wires properly for a good extension.  This gun seemed reasonably priced with decent reviews...hopefully it ends up working well.  From my research online it seemed like it made the most sense to buy 3/32" heat shrink tubing as this would cover the bases for 18 and 22 gauge wire used in the project.  Got a 100 foot roll so assume I should have plenty to spare.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/photos/03-29-2020/web/heatgun01.jpg)


I thought I might have more opportunity to work on this given all the forced staying at home for the corona pandemic, but it's actually been the opposite.  I've been working longer hours and we have really big initiatives still trying to kick off.  :dunno

I've been bouncing between different aspects of the project trying to solve outlier things in the design and also experimenting with new themes and names for the cabinet.  Might make a few more mods to the side shape of the design too.

Just for fun, here was a really early design I did over a year ago with a slightly different color schema and shapes instead of detailed graphics.  I liked aspects of it.

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/arcade-alt01.jpg)


@Mike A:  I'm considering your suggestion for hiding the main cabinet door handle with a hidden latch accessed through the coin door.  That of course means I have to leave the key out for the door and leave it in.  Only concern there is the younger kids misplacing or bending the key.  Assuming you can easily get those keys copied I might go that route and keep a spare elsewhere in the cab.


Meanwhile here's a bunch more questions in topics for people to chime in on.

==================
HIDDEN SLIDE DRAWER
==================

Still not sure how I make a handleless slide drawer work.

==============
TV MOUNT
==============

With the TV mount, I was hoping to avoid having to buy an actual TV mount.  All of them seem to be designed to drop and hook into place, letting gravity help keep the TV in place on the wall.  That seemed to present a problem where it could potentially slide off during transportation if the cabs on it's side and say bumping up and and down stairs.  I was looking to simply fabricate my own mount from wood that would have the ease of hanging to get it mounted correctly or removed easily, but also be bolted down so it can bump around in any direction without ever moving.  I think my design for this is sound but the only unknown for me is where I get the proper length / size screws to go into the back of the TV, and how I fit those onto the wood mount.  What have others done?

(https://www.vertexguy.com/projects/arcade/the-klines-arcade-4p/renders/12-30-2019/wireframe03.jpg)


===========================
BEZEL WITH MINIMALLY VISIBLE SCREWS
===========================

My idea for this was to have plexi resting on wood braces on the sides, and have a small rabbit hole at the base that it sits in.  At the top I would have a small thumb screw on the large side panels that sticks out just enough to hold the plexi in place up top.  Underneath the thumb screw I would tuck a thin strip of material that's attached to the back of the plexi to work as a hidden pull tab once the thumb screw is removed.  The idea here is that I can very quickly remove the plexi (say weekly) to clean it as necessary without much hassle.  If someone has a better solution and a way to be screw free, that would be even better.

===========================
Light Gun Sensor
===========================

I haven't yet figured out how I'm going to mount this.  It doesn't have a case so it just "sits" on something.  Obviously I want it anchored somehow and am not sure if this will work through a tinted / painted plexi bezel or what my best option is to hide it.  I was thinking some sort of hanging metal or wood mount coming down from the speaker area just above the TV to anchor it to, all behind the bezel.

===========================
Marquee With Hidden Screws
===========================
 
Another thing to solve was not having any visible screws on the bottom metal angle bracket holding the marquee.  Every arcade in the real world seems to have at least 2 screws holding this in place.  While I guess it's not critical, it would be cool if I can keep the no visible screw theme in tact and figure out a way to anchor this in place.  The bottom would never need to move again.  The top will have screws to service it as those are high enough up and out of the way to not matter.  Plus there will be other service screws up top anyway.  Also what is the right kind of screw to hold this in place, and do I need some sort of threaded insert for every screw I plan on making a service point?


Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Mike A on March 29, 2020, 05:15:59 pm
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS805US805&sxsrf=ALeKk035tciGBfeIJ5cFtw9rmbziR6GLKA%3A1585516520165&ei=6A-BXuzTCfSKytMPmZao2AM&q=Admiral+Locks+Thumb+Keyless+Cam+Lock&oq=Admiral+Locks+Thumb+Keyless+Cam+Lock&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDIECCMQJzIECCMQJ1AAWABghDVoAHAAeACAAW6IAdYBkgEDMC4ymAEAqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjs5-CnzcDoAhV0hXIEHRkLCjsQ4dUDCAs (https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS805US805&sxsrf=ALeKk035tciGBfeIJ5cFtw9rmbziR6GLKA%3A1585516520165&ei=6A-BXuzTCfSKytMPmZao2AM&q=Admiral+Locks+Thumb+Keyless+Cam+Lock&oq=Admiral+Locks+Thumb+Keyless+Cam+Lock&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDIECCMQJzIECCMQJ1AAWABghDVoAHAAeACAAW6IAdYBkgEDMC4ymAEAqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjs5-CnzcDoAhV0hXIEHRkLCjsQ4dUDCAs)
Title: Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
Post by: Drnick on March 30, 2020, 06:17:15 am
You should fine that Pyle TV's will take M8 Bolts 40mm  (Maybe 50mm) High Tensile should do the job nicely. Just drill corresponding vesa mounting holes in the mounting board and mount through the wood, If you are using 3/4 inch for the mount it will hold with no issues.