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Author Topic: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!  (Read 2516 times)

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processedmeat

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Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« on: January 04, 2017, 11:57:53 am »
Since getting a Star Wars is now out the question with prices in the crazy money territory, I decided to get my retro fix by picking up a non-working dedicated Atari Hydra that I was thinking to restore-mod this into a multi-yoke Mame machine.  Of course, I'll try not to permanently alter this cab and make it easily convertable back to a Hydra. 

I know that the Hydra yoke has no gearing and that mechanically the Y axis has only half the sensitivity (range) of the X but I'm hoping that it gives me 80% of the experience of a real Star Wars machine.   Also since there are very few of these left, I think even fewer than those on Star Wars (since other Atari games use the same yoke), parts will be even harder to find.  I looked on ArcadeFixIt, but I think they mistakenly equate the Hydra Yoke with Star Wars yoke parts.

There is a lot of rust on the metal parts and part of the fiberglass? cabinet is cracked with holes in it.  Hopefully, I can patch it with Bondo.  I'll also have to repolish out a bunch of scratches and graffiti on the curved plexi.  I'm a little apprehensive about sanding and polishing the plexi because it since its curved, getting a replacement made will almost be impossible.

However, besides the initial cost, the other main plus of the Hydra is that it has an analog pedal, two panel buttons,  and thumb buttons on the yoke that opens up the possibilities of other games e.g. Spy Hunter, Chase HQ

Something wrong with the yoke as it only swings to the left.  Strange duct tape stickers attached.


Some punk kid etched the name of the game into the plexi.  Why Hydra?  Why not your name or something else cooler?


Just getting this when I power on the game.  Gonna try to turn down the brightness and try my 60-1 board as a test screen generator.

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2017, 01:03:17 pm »
While you're working on the yoke, would you mind taking a picture of the connector and documenting the pinout and wire colors like these examples?

SW yoke harness pinout


Lock-On yoke harness pinout


Thanks for your consideration.


Scott

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2017, 02:27:38 pm »



Keep an eye on ebay.  A full Star Wars may be super expensive but just a parts yoke is still obtainable.  I sold four of them last year when I finally got my Star Wars and sold off all the unused parts I had saved.  Without the Star Wars CP they were going in the $150ish range in project condition.

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2017, 01:51:40 pm »
I took the yoke off, opened it up, and noticed that one of the ends of the torsion springs had fallen off the spring catch.  Once I got it back on, the yoke seemed to spring back a little bit more to the center albeit there is some play to the left.   I wondering if any other yoke owners see some play when the yoke snaps to the center.

As I did some research on the web, I noticed that my springs seems to have fewer loops than the ones online and in the manual and that a previous owner bent and cut off part of the spring catch.



Also the springs don't seem to be flush with the shaft.

Here are mine:


I found this pic on the internet of another persons:


Definitely a different torsion spring!  However, it seems playable as I get the full range of motion in every direction and there is enough tension to pull the yoke back to center.

Then to determine if it was the PCB or the monitor that was faulty, I connected my 60 in 1 to it and I got a picture despite a lot of monitor burn. 

« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:51:10 pm by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 02:04:45 pm »



Yeah, pretty much all of these yokes have some play at this point.  They weren't 100% perfectly returning to center when new, either.  As long as it is within 5-10% of center I'd be okay with that.  When I rebuilt my Star Wars yoke last year I tried a bunch of pairs of the OEM springs and they all gave roughly the same off center result.


Be careful with that center bolt that they hook onto.  That thing strips and breaks easily.  I broke two of them myself and had to improvise a new one from stuff from the hardware store.

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 11:52:48 pm »
While you're working on the yoke, would you mind taking a picture of the connector and documenting the pinout and wire colors like these examples?

Here you go Scott


Weird that it doesn't have a frame ground pin like the other two yoke pinouts you have there.

EDIT: Replaced the diagram with the correct connector
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 09:35:10 pm by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 12:06:19 am »
The marquee is really weathered and looked really cracked especially when backlit.


I decided to make something that would look a little better with Photoshop.  Not vectorized but just an upgrade that I can print out on photo paper until I can get it printed on Translite.  Using the game flyer, I tried creating something that was in the spirit of the marquee but in no way NOT an exact reproduction.  For instance, the spray on the bottom left hand corner was impossible to reproduce since the flyer has the arcade cabinet in that corner and I had no access to a graphic file with that corner unaltered.


Not great but definitely better than this!



« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 10:29:44 am by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2017, 12:26:10 am »
It was then time to put in some elbow grease and I gave the entire cabinet a thorough Magic Eraser cleaning.  I don't have a tumbler and didn't want to use a Dremel sander to clean off all of the rust on the bolts and nuts.  So I put all of the hardware in a citric acid solution, dried them really well, and then sprayed the bolts and speaker covers using everybody's favorite Rustoleum black satin.

I then used some JB Plastic Weld to fix the cracked areas of the fiberglass/plastic body and did some spot spray painting in those areas with a semi gloss white.  The JB Weld wasn't really easy to use as the packaging recommended to avoid skin contact and the putty stuck too well to my disposable gloves.   The paint didn't exactly match but it was close enough.



« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 12:27:55 am by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2017, 12:41:19 am »
After hooking up the controller to the A-Pac, I noticed that the triggers were a little mushy, especially compared to the thumb buttons.  When I opened up the yoke handle, I noticed this strange leaf / microswitch mechanism.



When I looked in the Hydra manual, it seems like there should be a pure leaf switch in there with a part number of 160050-001. 



The funny thing is that when I searched for that part number 160050-001, I get the leaf/microswitch mechanism.   Can somebody with a Hydra yoke chime in?  Or have an idea of getting something comparable to what the manual is calling for?


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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 10:38:07 am »
Thanks, Processedmeat.   ;D

Just to confirm, this is the connector on the yoke side, not on the cabinet side, right?

(The SW yoke has that connector on the cabinet side.)



Scott
EDIT: Post above updated with correct connector pic.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 01:15:24 am by PL1 »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 11:08:55 am »
When I opened up the yoke handle, I noticed this strange leaf / microswitch mechanism.


The leaf/microswitch mechanism is the updated trigger switch assembly (Part # 95-4300-00) for the Hydra-style grip.




Scott

processedmeat

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 01:48:38 pm »
(erased)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 09:29:59 pm by processedmeat »

processedmeat

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 02:24:08 pm »
So my original intention regarding the monitor was to use the already installed 19" raster CRT with a J-Pac but when asking the fine folks on this forum about using that to play both raster and vector games, everybody pretty much said to go with a flat PC CRT monitor since you'll be able to get straighter vector lines with the higher resolution and for the much easier PC setup. 

For the past few weeks, I've been looking on CL and Offerup for at least a 20" CRT monitor (since 19" ones aren't really 19") but I guess everybody has already recycled theirs or maybe somebody is hoarding them somewhere in the LA area.   So in order to continue the project, I decided to get a 20" 1600X1200 LCD monitor from Ebay and call it good for now.  I installed the LCD using the VESA holes onto a wood plank, and then used some joining blocks to "gently" affix the plank into the sides of the monitor section. 

The picture looks good but I keep feeling that I'm missing out on a CRT monitor especially with vector games.  I think I have cj138's Star Wars build to blame.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151281.msg1581055.html#msg1581055



« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 11:25:44 pm by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 03:29:27 pm »
I can dig out the connector from the stock harness if you would like.
Yes, please.   ;D

Other than Frame Ground and possibly the wire colors, it should be almost the same as the SW pinout if you put the two non-round pin holders at the top of the photo.


Scott
EDIT: Based on the current photos/pinouts, it appears that the differences between SW and Hydra harnesses are:
  1. No Frame Ground on Hydra (pin 12)
  2. The analog (potentiometer) ground and digital (button) ground are swapped (pins 10 and 11) -- an important difference for some analog encoders
EDIT2: Post above updated with correct connector pic.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 01:18:54 am by PL1 »

processedmeat

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2017, 04:27:32 am »
So after seeing that there might be a mistake on my part, I broke out my multimeter again to redetermine the wiring for my yoke.  I noticed that my original ground wire assessment was wrong. 

It seems that one ground pin is the ground for the Y axis pot and right trigger/thumb button.  And the other ground pin is the ground for the X axis pot and the left trigger/thumb button.


EDIT: Replaced it with the correct version

« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 09:34:38 pm by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2017, 11:54:02 am »
Thanks again, Processedmeat.   :cheers:

I just realised that this is the connector from the board
There's just one thing that isn't clear -- both pictures you've posted show female pins in a male molex housing.

When you unplug the yoke from the cabinet, does the connector in your picture stay attached to the yoke or the cabinet?

If both the yoke and cabinet harnesses have the same pinout and type of connector, then there must be a "gender-bender" adapter, right? (in this case, a short harness with male pins in a female molex housing on both ends)



Scott
EDIT: Post above updated with correct connector pic.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 01:14:39 am by PL1 »

processedmeat

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2017, 09:28:40 pm »
Scott, I'm an idiot.  I took a photo of the yoke connector and I posted the PCB connector again albeit the stock one.  I think this is what you are looking for.  I'll try to delete my previous posts so that nobody gets confused.




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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2017, 01:03:35 am »
I think this is what you are looking for.
As long as the yoke harness wire colors match the text, that's the one.  :cheers:   :applaud:


Scott
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 01:24:28 am by PL1 »

processedmeat

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 01:40:54 am »
I think this is what you are looking for.
As long as the yoke harness wire colors match the text, that's the one.  :cheers:   :applaud:

Scott

I'm not as confident about the harness colors as the previous owner seemed to do a hack job on the wiring.  But those are definitely the pinouts as confirmed by the multimeter.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 01:49:41 am by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 01:49:20 am »
As I my original intent to was to get my Star Wars and ESB fix from this machine, I ended up using LeChuck's Star Wars Attract Mode frontend that has the snaps sliding in from the right and left when you turn the yoke.  I also added instructions that mirrors the flashing text seen in the Star Wars vector game's attract screen by making a movie of the instructions flashing as apparently you can set a MP4 movie in the background by editing the warp layout's layout.nut file. 



Though I think the frontend looks pretty sharp, part of me feels like the cabinet doesn't match the theme of the frontend and it looks a little shoehorned together.  Too bad the Hydra aesthetic isn't cooler or timeless like the SW vector art.


But I guess the whole point of the hobby is to ultimately make something that helps us enjoy the games that we all grew up with.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 11:05:58 am by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 01:55:39 am »
I'm not as confident about the harness colors as the previous owner seemed to do a hack job on the wiring.  But those are definitely the pinouts as confirmed by the multimeter.
Thanks for the info.

Hopefully someone with an un-hacked Hydra yoke harness will confirm or clarify.


Scott

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 07:18:18 am »
As I my original intent to was to get my Star Wars and ESB fix from this machine, I ended up using LeChuck's Star Wars Attract Mode frontend.  In the Star Wars vector game's attract screen, some of the text flashes, and I figured out that you can set a movie as a background image when editing the warp layout.nut file.



Hey that's looking sharp as hell man.  Always loved that cab design even tho I can't stand that game lol.  When I was doing my thread last night I noticed that you had posted in the FE thread back in NOV and I never saw it.  Can I help out with anything?

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2017, 11:15:08 am »
Hey that's looking sharp as hell man.  Always loved that cab design even tho I can't stand that game lol.  When I was doing my thread last night I noticed that you had posted in the FE thread back in NOV and I never saw it.  Can I help out with anything?

Thanks for the props and sharing your frontend & snaps with everybody.

The only quirk I have with Attract Mode is that when I scroll in the next game, if I don't bring the current snap past their center mark, then it will load the previous game even though you can't see the snap of the previous game. Do you notice your users getting confused by this?  It would be cool if we could make Attract Mode visually indicate or say "locked on" when the snap is properly aligned and loaded.


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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2017, 11:40:57 am »
Hey that's looking sharp as hell man.  Always loved that cab design even tho I can't stand that game lol.  When I was doing my thread last night I noticed that you had posted in the FE thread back in NOV and I never saw it.  Can I help out with anything?

Thanks for the props and sharing your frontend & snaps with everybody.

The only quirk I have with Attract Mode is that when I scroll in the next game, if I don't bring the current snap past their center mark, then it will load the previous game even though you can't see the snap of the previous game. Do you notice your users getting confused by this?  It would be cool if we could make Attract Mode visually indicate or say "locked on" when the snap is properly aligned and loaded.

I've definitely noticed that same thing.  It kids the kids usually once each time they play and then they remember to cycle through.  I do it from time to time myself.  Not often enough to have looked for a fix. 

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2017, 12:53:41 pm »
With the extra thumb buttons, 2 panel (Boost) buttons, and the pedal, in addition to the yoke triggers, a few more games were opened up to me besides the original Atari  Star Wars trilogy games (SW, ESB, ROTJ).   So I currently have playing on here:

Star Wars Trilogy - Using Supermodel.  Works great for me except every so often, it seems to jump (twitch) all the way to the left when the yoke is centered. 
Firefox - Make sure you have HLSL turned off, otherwise the game CHD video isn't going to load.  Took me a long time before I figured this one out. Works great.  Too bad the game isn't more interesting.
Paperboy - Playing with the yoke is definitely not the same but makes it a lot more fun than using a joystick.  Skate board kid gets me everytime
Spy Hunter - As long you use don't mind using the boost button as the shifter and vertical layout shrinking the playfield, game plays great.  Gonna have to make an interactive Mame layout with the shifter and the panel lights for my 1600X1200 screen resolution.  Most versions online have the 16:9 widescreen version.  Forgot how hard and unforgiving the game is.
Afterburner I & II - Lots of fun here.  More fun watching people twisting and turning with the yoke, trying to avoid the missiles.
Jurassic Park - Definitely a credit muncher - Would be a lot more fun if there was two yokes for the second player...hmm..
Two Tigers - My favorite back in the day - Another one that would be more fun if there was two yokes...
Outrun & Chase HQ - Surprisingly, works well.  Not my favs, not enough shooting ;)
Hydra - Scratches the Road Blasters itch since RB doesn't have analog controls (correct me if I'm wrong), cool game but not a fan of the aesthetics
Battle Shark & Turbo Sub - Feels like a raster version of Star Wars - shooting enemies and their bullets at the same time, something similar to the tower stage
Star Blade - Pretty cool polygonal game that feels like Star Wars Trilogy without the the Star Wars wrapping.  Weaving around around capital ships and the such.
Space Harrier, Night Striker - For some reason even though they are AfterBurner clones, I don't enjoy them as much as AfterBurner even though they have more things to do than AB.
STUN runner - Very cool aesthetic, works great but I can't get into it

Wonder if I'm missing anything else cool?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 09:18:19 pm by processedmeat »

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2017, 03:00:30 pm »
I imagine you've taken a look at my list, but really I can't recommend highly enough to get Hydro Thunder, Solar Assault, and Mario Kart GP2 up and running. 

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2017, 06:02:02 pm »
Great build! I really like the Hydra cabinets.  I messed around with Hang-On using the yoke. It did not end up on my cabinet, but was still fun!

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2018, 04:49:25 pm »

I know that the Hydra yoke has no gearing and that mechanically the Y axis has only half the sensitivity (range) of the X but I'm hoping that it gives me 80% of the experience of a real Star Wars machine.   Also since there are very few of these left, I think even fewer than those on Star Wars (since other Atari games use the same yoke), parts will be even harder to find.  I looked on ArcadeFixIt, but I think they mistakenly equate the Hydra Yoke with Star Wars yoke parts.


I'm playing around with a Hydra yoke myself and am unable to get it to work in mame.  I'm only seeing about 50% of the range on the Y axis. Are there settings you were able to tweak to improve the range?

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2018, 12:48:10 pm »
In Windows controller calibration, does it show the full range? 

I think in Mame, I doubled the sensitivity of the Y in comparison to the X.  I'll double check when I get home from work and report back.

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2018, 05:38:39 pm »
You may want to check the pots and make sure they are still good.

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2018, 06:42:43 pm »
In Windows controller calibration, does it show the full range? 

I think in Mame, I doubled the sensitivity of the Y in comparison to the X.  I'll double check when I get home from work and report back.

I appreciate you doing that.  I'm testing with a Windows 10 computer right now and it doesn't appear (or I can't find) the standard Windows game controller properties box that has the range tester.  When I was testing with a Windows XP computer I was not seeing the full range.  I just replaced bot pots (thinking that was the problem) and am still seeing the same behavior.  This weekend I'll have time to test with an XP (or W7) box and will double-check.

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2018, 11:27:53 pm »
Under Analog controls I have everything set at 30 except for Y stick sensitivity at 70 and X stick sensitivity at 50.

For Windows 10 if you type in USB controller in the windows search bar (lower left hand corner), the program should pop up.

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Re: Resto-Mod Hydra Multi Yoke Mame Cab - Hail Hydra!
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2018, 06:44:36 pm »
Under Analog controls I have everything set at 30 except for Y stick sensitivity at 70 and X stick sensitivity at 50.

For Windows 10 if you type in USB controller in the windows search bar (lower left hand corner), the program should pop up.

Thanks for checking.  I appreciate it.  I figured out my problem and it was user error.  I haven't configured an analog joystick in a long time and forgot you have to calibrate it in Windows.   :banghead:

Once I did that it appears to be giving me full range of motion.  I'll try your mame settings as well. 

  
 

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