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Author Topic: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!  (Read 3548 times)

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vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2020, 12:51:39 pm »
that CP design, while having a fun shape is ergonomically bad for multiplayer. Basically it comes down to the P3 elbow interfering with P1ís joystick, and P4ís elbow getting in the way of P2ís button space.

I put my bipeds back in the scene to test and to no surprise found some things I needed to adjust.  When it comes to general spacing concerns, this isn't terrible, but I'm not done yet either.



The bigger problem I see with the "aircraft carrier" look is the placement on some of the controls in the original concept.  Even with my revisions I see issues to fix now.  Notice Player 3 (far left) needed the buttons moved down to be more accessible for instance given their right arm won't have the same reach.  Likewise P4 (far right) needs the joystick to be lower to accommodate the angle they stand at.  I can further understand from this why a cabinet like X-Men has all the button orientation turning as you work your way around the cabinet.   Now obviously the size of the person is a big factor here too.  I'm solving for my family scenario and trying to keep this cab as small as possible.

Surprisingly CP height may still be a consideration for me to adjust from this test.  I'm going to do further tests with a mix of kid sized bipeds and adults to try to dial it in.  I remember searching forums far and wide for average CP heights on classic machines.  If I remember correctly it was something like 34"-36" at the lowest point?  These bipeds are just under 6ft tall and would struggle putting their palm flat on the CP.


« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 04:29:54 pm by vertexguy »

pbj

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2020, 01:01:31 pm »
If you swing player 3 and 4 buttons out more, you can fit more obese skeletons around your panel easily.
This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

yotsuya

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2020, 01:30:50 pm »
Poor player 3 looks uncomfortable, tucked in that alcove. Do they really have to keep their arms close to their body like that?

Itís good youíre doing your homework, though.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2020, 08:24:07 pm »
Your mockups certainly look prettier than many of the other gargantuan 4p panels that have been done in years past. Also +1 for real coin door.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2020, 11:05:22 pm »
Nothing beats real life mockups, preferably functional ones.

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2020, 06:30:26 pm »


Ok, here's my latest revision to the CP.  Please check my work and see if I'm missing anything.

This is a modification past my previous one to the "aircraft carrier" design.  I abandoned that but tried to keep some of the appealing aspects.  Several things have changed that I think solve the problems a lot better.  Good luck naming this shape if it proves to work well.  ;)

- Overall the dimensions are the same as before (technically a hair less wide).  This should keep it fitting a standard 8x4 sheet...hopefully.
- Player 3 and 4 are angled and pushed as far down towards player 1/2 as possible, while keeping an inviting angle to stand against vs a pointy box corner.
- Button positioning / orientation and joysticks have moved a bit.
- All players should have enough room for a palm rest
- Viewing angle is maximized for Players 3 and 4.
- Plenty of room in between players for even more drastically bent elbows and people of various sizes.
- I keep just enough room for pinball buttons and pushed them down more so I can vertically stack them with an offset as I originally wanted.  They will be hidden from the top and theres a slight chamfered edge to rest your hand against.
- There's about a 6inch radius from the center of the trackball before you risk running into anything.  With a 3 inch ball that means 9 inches of motion.
- I still maintain a lip around the top of the CP, but it's reduced to 1/2 inch.
- Green lines between the joysticks and buttons measure at least 3 11/16ths to keep with the slagcoin japanese layout distances.

Thoughts?

« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 07:03:18 pm by vertexguy »

yotsuya

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2020, 06:34:08 pm »


Ok, here's my latest revision to the CP.  Please check my work and see if I'm missing anything.

This is a modification past my previous one to the "aircraft carrier" design.  Several things have changed that I think solve the problems a lot better.

- Overall the dimensions are the same as before (technically a hair less wide).  This should keep it fitting a standard 8x4 sheet...hopefully.
- Player 3 and 4 are angled and pushed as far down towards player 1/2 as possible.
- Button positioning / orientation and joysticks have moved a bit.
- All players should have enough room for a palm rest
- Viewing angle is maximized for Players 3 and 4.
- Plenty of room in between players for even more drastically bent elbows and people of various sizes.
- I keep just enough room for pinball buttons and pushed them down more so I can vertically stack them with an offset as I originally wanted.
- There's about a 6inch radius from the center of the trackball before you risk running into anything.  With a 3 inch ball that means 9 inches of motion.
- I still maintain a lip around the top of the CP, but it's reduced to 1/2 inch.
- Green lines between the joysticks and buttons measure at least 3 11/16ths to keep with the slagcoin japanese layout distances.

Thoughts?

Much better. P3 doesnít look like heís being punished anymore.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2020, 06:46:02 pm »
Player 3 on the left it may not be a bad idea to move the buttons up.    When you sit and play at that position which I often do, itís nice to have the ability to rest your wrist or arm on the cp between you and player 1.  My first cp had the buttons for 3 and 4 closer to the edges but was thanked on my second build by people for having more room to rest arms and wrists.

Looks great though nice work!

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2020, 07:24:28 pm »
Player 3 on the left it may not be a bad idea to move the buttons up.    When you sit and play at that position which I often do, itís nice to have the ability to rest your wrist or arm on the cp between you and player 1.  My first cp had the buttons for 3 and 4 closer to the edges but was thanked on my second build by people for having more room to rest arms and wrists.

Looks great though nice work!

Good point - thatís why the standard Midway/Konami 4p panel is superior to any cut-corner job.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2020, 11:52:16 am »
Player 3 on the left it may not be a bad idea to move the buttons up.    When you sit and play at that position which I often do, itís nice to have the ability to rest your wrist or arm on the cp between you and player 1.  My first cp had the buttons for 3 and 4 closer to the edges but was thanked on my second build by people for having more room to rest arms and wrists.

Looks great though nice work!

Thanks for the feedback dougan.  I double checked and sure enough my measurement was off.  Based on my test from the bottom first button center to the edge of the panel I'm going for at least 4.5" for a decent wrist rest.  The compromise of moving it further up the panel is changing the approach angle of the player and distance from the screen.  It's not a mile off or anything so I need to do a little bit of shuffling pushing it up some on ALL the players.  Next update today will fix all that and show the panel from multiple angles.

Side note, I'm also playing with some revision ideas on the artwork.  Really like some elements of The Grid project concept where the bottom artwork wraps around the sides.  Also testing out some concepts to make the characters even more cohesive in style and tie it all closer with a pixel theme.  The title of the cab may change too.  I had another idea in mind but we'll see.  I'm trying not to get TOO caught up in art right now as my plan is still to build the cab and do more physical play tests with the CP before I finalize artwork.

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2020, 04:31:50 pm »
On another note, have any other projects come up with a good way to add a ring light to the base of a spinner and a flight stick?  I have some concepts but love to see what others have done.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2020, 05:18:53 pm »
Good point - thatís why the standard Midway/Konami 4p panel is superior to any cut-corner job.

 :stupid

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2020, 02:49:20 pm »
I've been playing around more with the control panel trying to test out positions as best I could digitally and decided it's time for some physical prototype testing.

First I went to home depot and picked up some of the extra heavy duty large boxes as these were conveniently 24" wide.  Two of those sides together will get me to the 48" width of the CP.  I don't think the single layer boxes they sell in similar size would have been strong enough to hold everything in place well.  My initial thought was to double up on the heavy layer for even better support.  I tried laying down hot glue but the surface area was too big.  By the time I had it reasonably covered, the glue was drying too fast.  I decided to roll with just the original thickness of the extra heavy cardboard and try it out.



After getting the boxes all cut into workable pieces I went back to my digital model to write down measurements from the outer edges to each button and joystick center point.  This was painfully slow and hard to make sure I was accurate.  Once I had a joystick and related button plotted for a player I decided to try to use the printed controller layout template to "speed things up".  This proved to be tricky as well.  Since you can't see through it, I found it hard to get it lined up properly with the starting points.  I also found that because the center holes were being marked with a not so great pencil, it left for roughly a 16th to an 8th of variability in the marks, which is problematic further down the road.




Initially I ended up using slightly too large of a forstner bit, which gave too much wiggle room to the buttons, making it harder to align them properly.  I also discovered that going slow with cardboard and power tools doesn't seem to work well.  It ended up tearing more of the edges and moving slightly out of alignment as I went.

After I found a smaller bit that was a much closer fit to the buttons I was using, I tried again on the second half of the panel.  This time I tried the drill at max speed before plunging in, and that seemed to work a lot better.

I also realized after starting to put in the controls that some of my measurements were off. :(  Simple things from my ruler sliding slightly over a large area can make for big problems.  The way I notated my measurements split between the panels also made it a little more confusing.  In a couple instances I measured from the wrong side of the CP edge which threw things off.  That's exactly why I wanted to start with some simple test runs though.  Hopefully as I keep going I can refine my process and avoid these mistakes by the time I get to the real construction.



Getting a way of propping this thing up at the proper height proved to be very challenging.  Fortunately between some kid toy storage furniture, additional plastic bins, and some wooden rail road tracks I was able to get it very close to the proper height (~38 1/4").

Then I did a bunch of position tests between myself and some of my kids.










After some quick measuring I realized that the side flaps on the box, when cut in half, were perfect for a bulky arm and the correct length to go from finger tip to elbow.  This let me make some simple test arms to attach, aligning based on my real arm positions.  Then I could physically test from the side positions for P3 and P4 more effectively.



I refined several things about the CP layout from these simple tests.  I may end up making one more CP from cardboard with the refined layout for practice and to be completely sure I like the adjustments.  I payed particular close attention to how easy it was for my youngest to reach the dedicated 4 way classic controls in the back center, as well as trying to come up with adjustments to allow more room for aggressive side to side movements with the trackball without whacking the P2 joystick.  My conclusion was that if I make the CP 2 inches deeper, I can move the trackball down and a little to the left and should have just enough clearance (if your arm is aligned with it) to where your finger tips just miss the P2 joystick with an aggressive move to the right.  I also moved player 1 and 2 up by a half inch I believe.

I looked at other games like Missile Command to see how much room was between their trackball and the right edge, and it wasn't a lot.  This adjustment gives more room.  A game like centipede. and most of the trackball centric games, seem to have the ball centered in the CP with a ton of room on either side.  Replicating that with this layout is tough, but I'm hoping these adjustments will do the trick.  I plan on making a working CP to test this theory soon.  It's games like Crystal Castles, Marble Madness, and Golden Tee that will require maximum agility.  I've looked at so many different custom panels. both 2 and 4 player and scratch my head every time when I see the trackball centered on the panel with less than 6 inches of space to the nearest joystick.  Not sure what games they plan on supporting with that limited space?


Next I wanted to focus more on the pinball controls.  If I'm going to bother to have them, I want it to feel right.  I used to have a ton of measurements from when I visited the Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas to make the digital versions of the tables, but sadly don't think I have them anymore.  From what I could gather on google, the average width of the playfield should be around 22.5" wide.   As is the buttons would be 30" apart, which is doable for an adult but feels really wide and unnatural to a real table.  It's also not great for kids.  Given my adjustments and desire to be able to bring the trackball down more, it gave me an excuse to adjust these to be the proper distance.

Here you can see I've moved them inward so they are exactly 22.5" apart.  This feels pretty good.  Given the height I'm not sure I would comfortably wrap my hand around the side of the lower part of the panel to play, but if I simple free hang or use my thumbs as anchors on the top of the CP, it seemed like it would work well.  I may adjust these a bit more yet and go with an even vertical alignment on the buttons.



Digitally, this is what the CP would look like with all these new adjustments.




I may still play with the design a bit more too once I put it back on the arcade.  I'm trying to find an interesting shape that doesn't impact any of the layout requirements, and at the same time is hopefully something I can actually pull off.


Next steps for me is trying to figure out a way to get my TV at the correct height and angle so I can do some functional play tests and make sure I'm happy with the viewing angles for P3 and P4.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 05:19:22 pm by vertexguy »

yotsuya

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2020, 02:57:39 pm »
I will say this - no one can accuse you of not doing your research! :cheers
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

opt2not

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2020, 03:17:05 pm »
Fantastic prototyping.  This is exactly how it should be done!  Anything that has to do with human interfacing and ergonomics should be prototyped IRL before any wood is cut.
Good on you for doing this initial phase and getting the "focus group" involved.  :)

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2020, 05:15:35 pm »
Thanks guys.   ;D

One concern I've had even before extending the depth of the CP is the tip ratio.  I don't know how I can calculate this, but how do I know it wouldn't be easy for a person (or 4) to start to tip the cabinet during play if they're leaning into it or pushing down for some reason?



This ties into my idea for extending the CP with some sort of modular attachment base that I can strap down a steering wheel or analog flight stick to when needed.







yotsuya

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2020, 05:35:00 pm »
Thanks guys.   ;D

One concern I've had even before extending the depth of the CP is the tip ratio.  I don't know how I can calculate this, but how do I know it wouldn't be easy for a person (or 4) to start to tip the cabinet during play if they're leaning into it or pushing down for some reason?



This ties into my idea for extending the CP with some sort of modular attachment base that I can strap down a steering wheel or analog flight stick to when needed.



I wouldnít do that, especially with a thin cabinet. If youíre going to do that, strap it to the wall.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2020, 05:58:42 pm »
^ agreed.

If youíre set on wanting swappable controls, Iíd figure out a solution for swapping the existing CP.
Molex connectors for quick disconnecting, maybe a latch solution for quickly pulling off the CP top.

Japanese sit-down cabinets ( New Astro City, Blast City, etc..) could be your inspiration here. They have detachable panels that are screwed to the housing and have AMP connectors for connecting the controls. I can swap a full panel in <5mins. 

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2020, 03:08:51 am »
...Given the height I'm not sure I would comfortably wrap my hand around the side of the lower part of the panel to play, but if I simple free hang or use my thumbs as anchors on the top of the CP, it seemed like it would work well.  I may adjust these a bit more yet and go with an even vertical alignment on the buttons.
Any chance a thumb hook of some sort above the pinball buttons would help? It would move the buttons in and down some, but might solve the free hang problem.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2020, 09:12:54 am »
Love the cardboard mock-ups!  Prototyping the CP is essential, IMO.  Get it exactly how you think you want it then sleep on it for a few days and refine if necessary.  Do the same thing with the artwork once you get there.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2020, 12:03:18 am »
I'd agree that's it's great that you are prototyping with the cardboard.  Nothing like feeling it out in IRL.  You are now butting up against what I believe is every Frankenpanel owners biggest challenge, balancing the many controls with the ergonomics/aesthetics/functionality of a design. 

I grappled with a lot of what you are going through, moving things all over the place. 

With regards to your question of tipping.  This took me a long while to figure out, but after awhile got clear.  Think of it as a teeter totter.  Your fulcrum point (teeter totter base), is your closest leg leveler/castor.  The further out you get from it the more leverage a person/child can apply weight and try to tip it over.  It's fine if the weight on the other side of that fulcrum is heavy (meaning you have more weight on the other side of the leg leveler/castor), however if your cab is light and the control panel sticks out far past your closest point on the ground then it becomes easier to tip.....

This leads to the next thought.  Although it may make sense to move that track ball further away from the joysticks to create clearance, it creates a lot more depth, and subsequently a greater probability of tipping.  In playing trackball games I can think of only one game that some people need the clearance to smack the trackball hard and need that, and that's Golden Tee.  Every other trackball game is more subtle movements, and I don't know if it's worth creating a whole control panel scheme based on that one game  :dunno.  The other option is to create a deeper cab (which originals were anyway), and then your fulcrum point gets pushed out and you can create more depth in your control panel and be covered.

Anyway good work on the research.  Keep it up.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2020, 10:04:53 am »
If the machine ends up that front-heavy, you might also be able to counter-balance it with some removable weights on the inside. Something like a pair of 10lbs weight plates hanging on hooks on the back wall.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2020, 10:14:52 am »
This is why, in addition to using CRTs, original arcade games were not thin profile. It doesn't do you much good to save space under the CP by overhanging it. Just extend the bottom half of the cab out further to support the CP better. As long as you don't extend past the CP it takes up the same amount of floor space. Look at an original TMNT cab. It is a 4 player cab that is 27 or 28 inches wide with the CP removed. You could sit on the CP and it will not tip even with the CRT removed.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2020, 12:46:59 pm »
Thanks everyone for the thoughts on the tipping concern.  The counter balance to simply making everything bigger and heavier are some of my key restrictions in the original design requirements.

- I have to be able to fit it through 28" wide doors. (that's with doors removed)
- I have to be able to move it up and down my basement stairs by myself (with a dolly?).
- I'm trying to avoid having to completely take the thing apart to move it around. (otherwise screws and a lot of assembly time would solve most of this)

So step one was to make sure the CP can be removed fairly easily.
Given the width to fit the TV, and a desire for a little wiggle room on components so they can be swapped out easily down the road when they fail, that left me forced with 32"s wide from the front.  So to counter that and help keep it from looking so monstrously huge and get it through doors, I made the depth 24" in the current design.  That also makes both side panels nicely fit a 97x49 sheet of MDF.  Now I'm still considering a baltic birch option if I can find it and the price is right but that may also shrink my raw material size even more.  Originally I was hoping to get this all in 2 sheets but its looking more like 3 already.  Less concerned about total sheets as long as the wood cost isn't crazy.

So all that said, I'd be comfortable extending some of the base area depth out a couple inches for additional CP support if needed.  I'm just not sure that will make or break the tip factor.  I also assume others who have built slim 4 player cabinets haven't have a tipping problem because I haven't seen it called out.  If the design is flawed I'd sure like to catch it up front.

I did consider adding some sort of removable weight as an option.  It might still be a good idea to keep it portable but solve any balance concern?

It would be awesome if anyone reading with a slim 4 player cab could chime in on any tipping / wobble concerns!


As for the additional controller extension...I agree that really makes it look easily tipped.  I'm trying to avoid swapping out the CP entirely as kids definitely won't be doing that.  Might end up being an additional folding table of some kind they can quickly setup and plug the controller into the front USB ports.   :dunno



« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 01:06:38 pm by vertexguy »

BadMouth

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2020, 08:52:01 pm »
Concerning moving it up or down steps, the "Bigfoot" hand truck from harbor freight rolls over stairs fairly well.
https://www.harborfreight.com/700-lb-Capacity-Bigfoot-Hand-Truck-62900.html


Concerning it tipping, just plan on anchoring it to the wall and call it good.  That's my $.02

javeryh

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2020, 09:09:00 am »
Concerning moving it up or down steps, the "Bigfoot" hand truck from harbor freight rolls over stairs fairly well.
https://www.harborfreight.com/700-lb-Capacity-Bigfoot-Hand-Truck-62900.html


Concerning it tipping, just plan on anchoring it to the wall and call it good.  That's my $.02

I've got a dolly like that for moving cabinets around.  Works great and makes stairs a LOT easier.

Agreed on anchoring it to the wall to prevent tipping.  Someone would have to sit or pull on the CP to get it to come out of the wall if you anchor it properly.

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #66 on: February 18, 2020, 10:01:03 pm »
Been a while since an update, so here goes:

Surprisingly busy last couple of months for me, so to no surprise things didn't get done as fast as I'd hoped.   I did make some progress on research and refinement items with the CP and display.

A working prototype (sort of):



I'm not able to easily hook up the main controls on this with all the stuff I'm using underneath to hold it up at the moment, so I focused tests around the trackball, and viewing angles for the outer players.


After comparing the wiring harnesses that came with my joysticks I was a bit surprised to find the one I ordered off ebay came with a nice long 19.5" harness while the others I got from arcade renovations were only 11.5" long.   Neither of these will reach where the controller was going to be.  :/  I was hoping not to have to buy a heat gun and shrink tubing to extend wires.


The viewing angle from P4 isn't too bad.  This is me matching the angle of the CP top.


TRACKBALL TESTING!:
==============

I hooked this up and tested every major trackball game I could find.  So far I'm pleased with the results.  I think I only very lightly bumped the P2 joystick once as I was adjusting my play.  Games like Marble Madness and Crystal Castles worked well.  Even Golden Tee tested out great with no joystick collisions.  I come mighty close though so I think I would think twice before having less than about 5 inches of room from the edge of the ball in any given direction.  I also found that a less experienced player (like my youngest daughter) tended to bump the P2 stick a little more frequent with games like Marble Madness, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

The best feedback was all of my kids asking me when they could play more arcade games. :)

So with those tests in mind I'm going to make a few more tweaks to the model and probably not extend it out an additional 2 inches.  Not doing the extension poses some challenge with the pinball button placement though....so I've got some design work to do.

I was out of town this past weekend and managed to stop by a big indorr / outdoor arcade in Manitou Springs, CO that I've been to a few times now.  I wanted to look at a few more details in person and try to compare the feel on some of the joysticks (although they're all pretty warn out).


I looked at things like joystick height relative to the control panel top, and reminded myself what a true 4 way felt like.


Looked at distances on Centipede and trackball height.  Sadly it was the only trackball game I could find in the place.


Flightstick and Spinner reference.


An interesting coin slot mechanism on the CP.  Never seen this before...


I couldn't pass up a shot with Tron.  :)  Now I really take notice of how low the CP is.



Lastly, I just got in my order for the new Ultrastick 360 Flight Stick model.  I'm anxious to try this out as a better solution for analog games like Afterburner while hopefully working well for games like Tron as well.  Should fit perfectly where I had the mini grip stick.


Kind of hard figuring out next steps to stay productive but I'm going to continue with CP refinement and probably attempt to build that first before everything else.  Hopefully I can find time to make that happen soon.  I have a decent 3/4 inch ply sheet with some sort of white laminent from getting our kitchen overhauled that I might use as a test run.  That way if I mess up too much, it's really no loss and hopefully I can learn from it.  Maybe it'll even work as the final if it turns out and vinyl print sticks to it.



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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #67 on: February 18, 2020, 11:57:42 pm »
Kind of hard figuring out next steps to stay productive but I'm going to continue with CP refinement and probably attempt to build that first before everything else.

Donít do it!!!  Many a great projects were killed cause the builder finished the control panel and started playing games.

Save the control panel for last!

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #68 on: February 29, 2020, 06:30:16 pm »
A few weeks ago when my brother in law stopped by, I showed him my prototype CP and let him play a few games with the trackball.  I noticed that he tended to use his finger tips at the center of the trackball and occasionally rested his wrist just below the ball.  This worked with the initial prototype layout but wouldn't be possible if I moved the trackball down further like I was contemplating.  At least you would be losing a wrist rest there...

This leads me to the question:

To those who play trackball games, what is your typical play style?
Vote TB 1. Fingertips on the center area of the ball with your wrist sometimes or always resting just below the ball
Vote TB 2. Palm rested on the center of the ball utilizing more arm movement
Vote TB 3 Some mix of the two depending on the game
Vote TB 4 Some other technique (Please Describe)

I found myself using more of my palms for games like Marble Madness and Golden Tee.


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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #69 on: February 29, 2020, 07:57:11 pm »
TB 1
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

Arroyo

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #70 on: February 29, 2020, 09:21:55 pm »
Agreed TB1, at least thatís how I play all track ball games except Golden Tee.  For that one I place the fingers on the top part of the support plate and use my thumbs to generate the power.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2020, 04:35:18 pm »
TB1, except the fling games. (but I wouldn't quite call those TB2)

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2020, 02:33:37 pm »
I placed another order for some more electrical accessories and a heat gun.  Time for some woodworking questions I haven't fully solved in my designs yet. 

I need all you drawer and cabinet maker experts advise.

The front coin door section is intended to have a drawer above it, and the lower half is a larger cabinet door for storage / easier access to accessories like steering wheels / pedals / pc access when I get there.

I've not yet figured out how to make these accessible without an exposed door handle, and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time.  I'm trying to keep it feeling as much like a legit front of an arcade as possible.  The drawer above is to house the keyboard / mouse, which won't be used often, BUT it will also house USb controllers that will get used a lot... so it validates the need more in my eyes.

The idea I had for the main front door was to leave about a 1/2 inch lip at the bottom which would meet up with the base of the cabinet, so it can be colored the same to help hide it and given its on the ground it's less noticeable.  I thought MAYBE I could pull on that easily enough to open and close it with some sort of stiff pull hinges.  Needs to be somewhat kid friendly too.  I'd also like to figure out a locking mechanism so it doesn't flop open in transport

Similar deal with the top sliding drawer.  I have the slides already but am not sure how I can hide a handle.  I figure this drawer will get a lot more action then the bottom cabinet drawer so it should be built to last and kid friendly.  Also not sure how I can have some sort of lock to keep it in place during transport.

Any suggestions?

« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 04:58:19 pm by vertexguy »

Mike A

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2020, 02:40:00 pm »
Quote
and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time

Do you plan on passing this cabinet along for like 1000 generations?

vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2020, 02:44:38 pm »
Quote
and not rely on magnets that will probably lose grab over time

Do you plan on passing this cabinet along for like 1000 generations?

Maybe? :)  I've only ever experienced cheap magnet doors on entertainment centers and haven't been impressed with their grab.  The other consideration is the weight of the door with the coin door on it.  If magnets are viable with a better quality part I'm all ears.... although lasting less than 1000 years could be a deal breaker. ;)




Mike A

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2020, 02:48:09 pm »
I use rare earth magnets to hold oak plaques to a steel wall. They have great holding power.

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2020, 04:18:11 pm »
Mostly TB1 but sometimes TB2 for games like Missile Command.

Opinion:  You're trying to cram too many things on 1 control panel.

Why the extra joystick and buttons in the middle next to the spinner?

I would make P2 and P3 have 6 buttons each, move P3 joystick more to the right and put 2 buttons to the right of the trackball for trackball games.

Remove the joystick in the middle which is next to the spinner and the buttons and only put 2 buttons next to the spinner for games like Tempest, Archanoid, etc.



vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2020, 12:09:31 pm »
Why the extra joystick and buttons in the middle next to the spinner?
Dedicated 4 way controller for more authentic feel on classic games.

I would make P2 and P3 have 6 buttons each, move P3 joystick more to the right and put 2 buttons to the right of the trackball for trackball games.
Why would Player 3 need 6 buttons?  What arcade game would utilize it?


vertexguy

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2020, 12:21:08 pm »
Bumping my current questions about hidden drawers and cabinets: 
Maybe there's another build link someone can point me to where someone did something similar?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,161694.msg1709769.html#msg1709769

Mike A

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Re: The Kline's Arcade - 4 player - first build, help needed!
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2020, 12:33:55 pm »
Hinge the front panel on one side. Latch it shut with a control panel latch on the other side, inside the cab.

You can reach in through the coin door to unlatch it.