Purchase Legal Roms

[Jagoe]

I hope this does not violate the "no ROM request" rule but.....I want to purchase LEGAL ROMs.  Where do I do this?

I am not actually requesting ROMS, I just want to know a few good places to purchase legal ones.  

[Thenasty]

I hope this does not violate the "no ROM request" rule but.....I want to purchase LEGAL ROMs.  Where do I do this?

I am not actually requesting ROMS, I just want to know a few good places to purchase legal ones.  

starroms.com
hanano.com
ultracade.com

happcontrols.com      http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/gameparts/96059400.htm

[Jagoe]

As my ex-girlfriend used to say...."You mean that's it?!?!?!?!"  

I have been toying around with the idea of getting into Classic gaming again (I used to be about 10 years ago when these ROMs first started appearing).   I keep hearing about thousands of classic games available out there, but from my research so far I have only been able to find around 100 or so "legal" ones.  

Am I to understand, that these sites that proclaim "thousands" of ROMs are available, are actually talking about illegal ROMs?

[Stingray]

Yep.

-S

[Sephroth57]

illegal, legal, its all perspective really  

[GroovyTuesdaY]

illegal, legal, its all perspective really  

No, really its not perspective at all!   Unless the company who owns the rights have officially released the roms to the public, it is illegal to have the roms unless you own the boards. Sorry seph. , its pretty simple and cut and dry.  
Now, the real issue is whether you give a crap or not. lol   Many don't and act accordingly.    

Its all good !

[Sephroth57]

Now, the real issue is whether you give a crap or not. lol   Many don't and act accordingly.    

well thats what i meant really, just in a more politicly correct way =P

[Lilwolf]

Some are just to satisfy yourself..

ebay... many boards can go for 5 - 10 bucks.  But this isn't legal... but playing the original is better... just make sure your system is jamma compatible.

buy a classic cd from the original company.  Many view this as also somewhat legal.  Again...  Makes you feel better... but about it...

Starroms is the best in my opinion for home users.  Because if they do well... other companies might start selling through them.  

[paigeoliver]

Some are just to satisfy yourself..

ebay... many boards can go for 5 - 10 bucks.  But this isn't legal... but playing the original is better... just make sure your system is jamma compatible.

Yes it is now actually. Remember the thread about the recent DMCA exception covering software for "obsolete" computer and video game systems.

Also, dead boards can go really cheap, and all you actually have to own is the ROMS, so you can always pull them off, put them in a padded envelope, and then resell the rest of the board as a parts board.

[MonitorGuru]

Also, dead boards can go really cheap, and all you actually have to own is the ROMS, so you can always pull them off, put them in a padded envelope, and then resell the rest of the board as a parts board.

I don't believe that would hold up in court.  While you are download ROMS, you actually NEED the rest of the board to work with those roms, thus the "emulation" part.  Mame just happens to already have copyrighted board/signalling layouts in it to mimic the rest of that circuit board.  While on many old games the chips themselves are not protected from emulation (you can't copyright an AND gate logic) but how they were laid out and interacted could be (new design).

Therefore to be totally legally safe, the mame "driver" code should be split up into separate files, so if you owned a certain board, you could legally have the driver code and the rom code on your system for emulation, but having other driver codes would not.

Again, we're talking about strict legal definitions, not what is likely to ever be procecuted.


Assuming you could just hold onto the roms, there is nothing keeping someone from burning a bunch onto eprom and claim they're the original roms ("the labels fell off from age officer"), you need to own the whole thing in order to claim ability to backup in the purest sense I would think.

But then again, I am not a lawyer, and these are only my opinions, of course erring on the conservative side--especially given this litigious society we live in.

[Citznfish2]

I can't copunt the number of times I've lost sleep because i was worried the ROM cops would show up at my doorstep.

[Stingray]

LOL @ Rom cops!

This image comes to mind:



-S

[nipsmg]

MonitorGuru:

*I hope I don't start an emulator legality flamewar here...*

Therefore to be totally legally safe, the mame "driver" code should be split up into separate files, so if you owned a certain board, you could legally have the driver code and the rom code on your system for emulation, but having other driver codes would not.

The "driver code" is NOT illegal.  Emulators in general are not illegal.  There are various emulators publicly available, some even directly from the chip/board developers that are used to test software that's meant to be used on the original equipment.  The "legality" debate came w/ bleem and ultraHLE when gaming equiment manufacturers saw they had to the potential to lose money on hardware sales.

If I want to write software that emulates a M68K cpu and run code through it, I'm not breaking the law.  If I write a homebrew game that would run on a NES and play it though an emulator, I'm not breaking the law.  If I use an emulator to play an illegally obtained copy of a game that I don't own, THEN I'm breaking the law.

Note: Some companies may be very quick to tell you that emulators are "illegal" -- (nintendo did this on their site, I believe).

If that's true, than companies like Microsoft(!) and VMWare, inc. would be selling an illegal product.  A Parallel: If I buy a copy of VMWare, and load a free copy of linux onto it, I'm using an emulator and not breaking the law.  If I load an illegally obtained cracked copy of Windows XP onto it (I don't own it), I'm breaking the law.


As far as pulling the roms off and selling the rest of the board, I don't know how that would work.. -- but remember, many people believe that owning a NES cart legally allows you to play the NES Game on your computer, where the cart is basically only composed (for arguments sake) of the roms, where the game system (NES) is what you need to run them on.... -- so that argument is iffy.


--NipsMG

[Santoro]

I can't copunt the number of times I've lost sleep because i was worried the ROM cops would show up at my doorstep.

Filesharers used to feel the same way!!

It is just a matter of time folks.  As we children of the eighties and nineties grow up and begin to make real money, the ROM owners will wake up and realize there is something there to be sold.  

[Citznfish2]

I can't copunt the number of times I've lost sleep because i was worried the ROM cops would show up at my doorstep.

Filesharers used to feel the same way!!

It is just a matter of time folks.  As we children of the eighties and nineties grow up and begin to make real money, the ROM owners will wake up and realize there is something there to be sold.  

Shhhh! They're listening!

[paigeoliver]

I can't copunt the number of times I've lost sleep because i was worried the ROM cops would show up at my doorstep.

Filesharers used to feel the same way!!

It is just a matter of time folks.  As we children of the eighties and nineties grow up and begin to make real money, the ROM owners will wake up and realize there is something there to be sold.  

Maybe, maybe not. It is different than things like music and movies. Music and movies age very well, and a good example of either will be sold for decades.

Not so with software. Software has very short lifespans. Old examples of non-gaming software have almost no value at all. You couldn't sell most MSDOS software for a penny these days. The old stuff has almost no use at all to the manufacturer, they certainly can't hope to sell it, and things have advanced so far that it probably doesn't even have much reusable code in it.


Gaming software is the only exception, but the situation isn't much different. There is pretty much no market for 95 percent of old gaming software titles ever made. Only the absolute cream of the crop has any market, and even that market is both small and cheap.

For example, for years now there have been various classics collections made for various computer and video game systems. Most contained about a half dozen different games, and retailed for around $20. Making those old games worth about $3.

So yes, games like Pac-Man, Defender, Final Fantasy (Nes), Sonic (Genesis), and other best of the best games are worth a big whopping $3 to the general public.

Now, try selling Graplop, Pooyan, The Hand, Crime City, Breakthru, and Yosaku in a "Classics Collection" priced at $20, and watch carefully as no one buys. Try to sell the same collection as a $3 piece of shovelware and you might succeed, but probably not.

So what am I saying? I guess I am saying that there is almost no market for most older software, and little REAL reason for the people who own the rights to waste any time or money chasing down "offenders". Sure Konami owns the rights to Pooyan, but would it make ANY sense for them to spend a dime on it, it probably didn't make them much money in 1982, and certainly isn't going to make them any money now.

[Santoro]

For example, for years now there have been various classics collections made for various computer and video game systems. Most contained about a half dozen different games, and retailed for around $20. Making those old games worth about $3.

So yes, games like Pac-Man, Defender, Final Fantasy (Nes), Sonic (Genesis), and other best of the best games are worth a big whopping $3 to the general public.

This is actually pretty persuasive.  I think for the most part you are correct about the intrinsic value of the roms, but if our hobby continues to catch on, some of these game copyright holders will realize that 3$ game + $1000 hardware can fetch $4K-5K in niche markets.  Then suddenly enforcement becomes important.  This is already starting to happen - as evidenced by the Sharper Image (I think it was them?) selling cabs.  

Now, try selling Graplop, Pooyan, The Hand, Crime City, Breakthru, and Yosaku in a "Classics Collection" priced at $20, and watch carefully as no one buys. Try to sell the same collection as a $3 piece of shovelware and you might succeed, but probably not.

True also.  I could care less about those games. :-)

[Stingray]

Shovelware? I have no idea what you meant by that, but it made me laugh anyway.  

-S

[Santoro]

Shovelware? I have no idea what you meant by that, but it made me laugh anyway.  

-S

Ever go into the front of COMPUSA or some such place and see a rack full of Cheap CD ROMS?  Examples might be:

"83 Million Fonts!"
"Clip Art Explosion"
"Liesure Suit Larry 1-4"
"27 old programs you never wanted even when they first came out"

Basically they shovel as much cr@p as possible onto a CD then sell it.  I saw the term in Wired magazine a while back.

[bigmoe]

There are a few more intertwined issues.

If a gamer is dealing with copyrighted ROMS he doesn't own a license for, they could hunt that person down, make them stop, press charges.  Maybe they get a record, maybe they get a fine, maybe they even get a jail sentence.  That's criminal, not civil.

What paigeoliver's point gets at is that unlike the movie and music business (and contemporary mainstream software business, like Adobe or M$ or, dare I type, SCO), I think it would be extremely difficult for these most of these companies to prove damages.  Even classics on consoles feel like they are petering out...(how many MORE Namco & Midway discs do I have to buy full of the same games...?)  Without damages, a civil case is nearly irrelevant.

So after the first batch of these gamers are dealt with, it becomes a matter of decreasing returns to continue prosecuting...expensive with not a lot to show for it...and a lot of these companies, if they exist, look like they're on the ropes anyhow.

Much better to cooperate with us.  I, for one, am willing to pay, but probably not $6 per game, definitely not for 4000 games