Build your own ultracade

[eightbit]

I submitted this as a news item but I thought it might provoke some discussion here.

I've seen it asked a few times in the forums if you could build your own ultracade cabinet and now you can.

Its a kit to convert a old cabinet into a multigame system powered by Ultracade. It includes the following games- 1942, Berzerk, Commando, Ghosts n Goblins, Gunsmoke, Jumping Jack, Lady Bug, Mega Man, Mr. Do!, Mr. Do

[eightbit]

sorry forgot the link-
http://happcontrols.com/amusement/gameparts/96059400.htm

[armad1ll0]

1K is way too much... might was well get the ArcadeVGA, Jpac and setup a mame dealie...

[eightbit]

1K is way too much... might was well get the ArcadeVGA, Jpac and setup a mame dealie...

Look at it again and remember that it includes among other things the computer, controls, side art, wiring, jamma connector and legal roms. Legal for commercial use roms.

[mahuti]

The commercial part is pretty important. And the solid interface built for commercial consumption

[Jakobud]

Someone hack the front end out of it already!

[Thenasty]

1. if we can add our own ROMS into this thing, then 1K is
    really worth it.
2. If you like to be an operator, then your in the clear about
    copyright stuff.
3. How much are those smash packs CD-ROM.

So it really depends how we look at it. For the average MAMER, it might be expensive and they are stuck with the games and they have to purchase the additional packs for more games.

For the operator, if he purchased the additional packs, I wonder how many months/years before he gets back the money. Gotta have to charge $1.00 each game, heh! for 1942/asteroid/didgug etcc..for a $1.00, hehe you won't see me playing. For .25 then I might shove in a couple or three, just for fun.

[Wade]

I think that's a reasonable price considering it is all legal and could be on a route, unlike 99% of the Mame cabs out there.

Wade

[Sasquatch!]

I wonder what exactly kind of video connection/interface it has.  It says "Works with all types of cabinets and monitors, horizontal or vertical, CGA, EGA or VGA" and that it comes with a "VGA pass thru cable", but I wonder what the specs are.

This isn't a bad deal for what it is at all.

[Howard_Casto]

The setup has about 300 bucks (retail) of hardware included.  So you are paying 700 bucks for those very few games that it comes with.  It should be noted that ALL of these games pcbs can be purchased for 20 bucks or less at this point on ebay.  And that is on a bad day, I've seen some go for as little as 5 bucks.  15 games at 20 bucks each, that's a mere 300 bucks.  So you are paying 400 bucks just for the ability to play all of these games in one cab and have the opportunity to make money off of them.

Bottom line....

Is it work it for arcade vendors?  

Depends.... if they are short in space then absolutely yes,  otherwise definately not.  They generally have dozens of generic cabs sitting around and to convert them to these 100% jamma compatable pcbs would cost them next to nothing.  Also 15 games in one mean they can only earn 2 quarters when they could potentially earn 30 (only two people can play at once as opposed to 30).  Now there is a balance there, as some games are more popular than others but you get the idea.  However if it's a very profitable arcade, they can offer a quarter gobbling treat for what is peanuts to them (the cost of one extra machine.)

Is it worth it for private collectors?

Heck no! What are you on crack?  You aren't going to be making any money off of this thing and you basically just paid 700 bucks just so you don't have to open up the front of your cab and swap out a pcb.  Even if you want to swap out easily there are cheaper "pcb swappers" out there that let you swap a pcb at the touch of a button.  Now they don't hold 15 games, but I've seen them hold as many as 10 and you can usualy get them for a couple hundred bucks.  Also note that approx 75% of those games have been released on cdrom for the pc or by other means in which you can play them on your pc legally.  Yes they aren't the true arcade versions, but you can get the cds for as little as 5 bucks these days.  


Also some of you mentioned more games... there are add-on packs available, but they run at he whopping price of 500 bucks a pack, with each pack containing 15 games or less.  So my theory holds true, you are paying several hundred bucks just for the privelage of being able to make money off of them.  

And for you dirty pirates out there the ultrcade os is encrypted along with the roms so it would be extremely difficult, if even possible, to put illegal roms on the system.


Just trying to put things in perspective.  


Unless you have an insainely large amount of cash to waste or you are a distributor with a thousand bucks extra this quarter steer clear of ultracade kits.  Trust me, the fancy wheel interface has, and will be duplicated in current windows fe's and it's not worth 1000 bucks.  

[Wade]

I agree with a lot of the things Howard is saying, but not everything.  I'll offer a slightly different perspective.

The setup has about 300 bucks (retail) of hardware included.  So

$300 is very much on the low side. To *approximate* this system, you would need the following hardware:

(Prices are approximate)
Ipac/Keywiz: $50
ArcadeVGA: $100 (and this can't do EGA if you have an EGA cab)
Appropriate screenprinted sideart: $50 (if it were even available!)
Marquee: $30 (could be more or less depending on how it is made)
New PC: $150?

That's more than $300 and you still have no way to get truly appropriate screenprinted sideart nor the EGA support.  I would consider the hardware aspect of this setup worth approximately $500 retail, or more.

you are paying 700 bucks for those very few games that it comes with.  It should be noted that ALL of these games pcbs can be purchased for 20 bucks or less at this point on ebay.  And that is on a bad day, I've seen some go for as little as 5 bucks.  15 games at 20 bucks each, that's a mere 300 bucks.  So you are paying 400 bucks just for the ability to play all of these games in one cab and have the opportunity to make money off of them.

If you are wanting to put a game like this on location, setting up a 15:1 jamma switcher isn't likely an option.  Even if it were an option, jamma switchers aren't cheap and all these $20 ebay boards are likely not proven to be working.  It's possible to "get lucky" and find a reputable seller with all those PCB's but that doesn't mean all those roms are only worth $300.  Just because it is possible to find a sweet deal on something doesn't mean that is what it is really worth.  I'd say the rights to legally use those roms are worth roughly $500, or more.

Bottom line....

Is it work it for arcade vendors?  

Depends.... if they are short in space then absolutely yes,  otherwise definately not.  They generally have dozens of generic cabs sitting around and to convert them to these 100% jamma compatable pcbs would cost them next to nothing.  Also 15 games in one mean they can only earn 2 quarters when they could potentially earn 30 (only two people can play at once as opposed to 30).  Now there is a balance there, as some games are more popular than others but you get the idea.  However if it's a very profitable arcade, they can offer a quarter gobbling treat for what is peanuts to them (the cost of one extra machine.)

A lot of vendors only set up 1 or 2 games at each location, like convenience stores or pizza joints.  This system would be much better than 15 different machines in this scenario.

The potential earnings vs. multiple machines is moot IMO because people are only going to play as many games as they feel like playing.  And it is RARE that an arcade with 30 games has someone on every machine.  I think the earning power is more related to whether the titles available are games customers really want to play.  Given limited space (like a pizza place) 15 choices instead of 1 or 2 should mean better earning power.

Is it worth it for private collectors?

I agree that it wouldn't normally be worth it to a collector, but then again neither is a Mame machine and a bunch of us have them.  I think it can help fill a void for operators and *some* home users who want to own or build/sell a fully legal system.  Or a home user who wants to build a nice Mame type setup quickly and easily.  For example, a person could pick up a gutted cabinet with literally ANY type of monitor in it, and plop this thing into it and have a pretty nice multi-game machine.  Sometimes we pick up these cabs for $50-200 so that would make the total investment a lot lower than many of the Mame setups built.

Just some differing opinions.  I don't see a big home use for it but I think it's a neat kit and worth the asking price.  I think it would be sweet for ops and Mame game sellers.

Wade

[Howard_Casto]

Responding to your comments.  

I personally find the marquee and sideart worthless. The Ultracade logo is ugly and generic.  If it were nicer I'd be more impressed.  

The price estimates I've given are accurate.  If you wanted to use all of those pc specific hardware add-ons then yes it would cost that much, but that's like comparing apples and oranges.  I'm talking about how much a similar multi jamma system would cost, or even a pc running mame.  All of those things you mentioned aren't required to make a mame machine, they are nice but not required.  And for the record yes, a pc as powerful as the ultracade system would probably only cost 150 bucks.  You only need like a p200 mhz with a 500 meg harddrive to run all of those games if we are nit-picking.  

About the pcbs on ebay... these particular games are very robust.  It's actually rarer to get games that don't work, in these particular cases.  And if you are leery of ebay you can get most of these games at any online arcade store.  Most run approx 20-30 bucks even then.  Like I said, 20 bucks a game is on a bad day.


About the jamma switcher.... I never mentioned using it in an arcade environment. As a matter of fact I specifically suggested it for home collectors.  And how is a mame setup not worth it for collectors and home users?  Your going to have to explain that one to me as mame is... well free.

Also about the conversion thing... I know distributors are cheap, but they aren't going to put a 1000 dollar system in a pos 25 dollar cab.  They are gonna want to put it in a brand new one or at least a used one in really good shape.

And to finish off I don't know how well the arcades do where you are, but around here anyone that can actually afford to stay in business is constantly packed due to the lack of arcades in the united states today.  So the 30 vs 2 point is definately not moot. For convenience stores, like you said it might be a good idea. In arcades, not really. Also you pointed out that it greatly depends on what people want to play.  As much as we like classics around here, the average 13 year old isn't going to fork over 50 cents a play for 1942.  

I didn't want to get into that aspect but considering you think it'll be a profit goldmine and around here the ultracade machines are literally the only machines collecting dust I could really disagree on that point.


I'm not trying to argue, I just don't think you understood some of the stuff I posted and you didn't research it as carefully as I did. (Tallied it up a loong time ago when the ultracde cabinets first came out) I just want to get the facts out.  Unfortunately, the more I go over the facts, the less appealing the Ultracade system is to me.  

 

[knuttz]

I agree with Howard on this one.  I've seen quite a few of these machines in arcades at Myrtle Beach where arcades are quite common.  They get very little use.  I think that this is because the arcade that had them also had Centipede, Ms. Pac-Man, Galaga, and even Joust!  With all of those real classics why would anyone play the Ultracade.  Remember classic gaming is about nostalgia.  You can't get nostalgic over an ugly modern cab.

[Wade]

Responding to your comments.  

I personally find the marquee and sideart worthless. The Ultracade logo is ugly and generic.  If it were nicer I'd be more impressed.  

You might not like it and/or find it worthless... but it is in the kit and if talking about the cost of hardware everyting in the kit should be accounted for.

The price estimates I've given are accurate.  If you wanted to use all of those pc specific hardware add-ons then yes it would cost that much, but that's like comparing apples and oranges.  I'm talking about how much a similar multi jamma system would cost, or even a pc running mame.  All of those things you mentioned aren't required to make a mame machine, they are nice but not required.  And for

You aren't comparing apples to apples, or oranges to oranges!  Pick one and stick with it.

If talking about "duplicating" this kit in a cheaper manner, we should account for the marquee, the stickers, etc. even if you don't personally like them.  Remember, apples to apples!

The only thing that could possibly be removed from my proposed Mame kit is the ArcadeVga, and even that is arguable.  The avga is the best plug and play option given that you couldn't possible program the software ahead of time to handle any monitor that is plugged up to it.  And even the avga doesn't compare directly (read: it is inferior) to this kit, which can do cga/ega/vga horz or vertial.  The encoder isn't "nice", it is required.  What are the options, are you going to send a $2 keypad or a $10 keyboard out with the kit and give instructions on how to hack it?

On top of all this, the Mame system still isn't going to be legal so if we are going to be picky, there is no such thing as a "comparable" Mame setup.

the record yes, a pc as powerful as the ultracade system would probably only cost 150 bucks.  You only need like a p200 mhz with a 500 meg harddrive to run all of those games if we are nit-picking.  

And these can be bought brand new?  (apples to apples...) If we are going to duplicate this kit as closely as possible the machine needs to be brand spankin' new.  I think $150 for any brand new PC is a very conservative estimate (meaning LOW).

About the pcbs on ebay... these particular games are very robust.  It's actually rarer to get games that don't work, in these particular cases.  And if you are leery of ebay you can get most of these games at any online arcade store.  Most run approx 20-30 bucks even then.  Like I said, 20 bucks a game is on a bad day.

About the jamma switcher.... I never mentioned using it in an arcade environment. As a matter of fact I specifically suggested it

Lets assume that you can get all those games for $20 each.  The multi-jamma setup is going to run appx. $300 for an 8-game setup, I'd assume that if it were possible to run 15 games then it would require two of these for a grand total of... $600.  Maybe you know of a less expensive 15+ game jamma switcher?

I'll have to continue this later as I'm running out of time and need to be somewhere.

Wade

[nipsmg]

Don't forget, if you bought the 15 games for $20, you'd spend $300 for the games.. which you could then legally play on MAME, since you own the boards, so you don't really need the JAMMA setup


--NipsMG

[Lilwolf]

The ONLY use I see in it is for space.

If you have an arcade... space for one game... and you want to buy a 15 in 1 solution.

but classic games have more people in front of them recently then the new games.  They need a 15 in one cabinet for new games... and keep their space for the classics...  They will probably do better.

But then again...  Anyone live in an area with an arcade that still making money?  When I travel and find one... I ALWAYS see 5 - 10 people in the classic corner... and one group of kids at a new game... (note:  arcades in malls are different... kids are there because their bored..)

[Sephroth57]

arcades that make money have a lot of bemani games if theyre smart. its the new wave, and if they dont have them theyre losing out on crazy profit. I am a bemani game player, started with DDR but moved on to anything really , and the DDR machines at the arcade i go to are never not in use. 1$ for 3 songs.. thats like 1$ every 5 minutes. not counting people failin their first song or whatever, and they dont cost much more then a upright brand new, theyre like 4-5k

[GamingGreg]

There are few arcades in my area, and I don't think any of them do extremely well.  Most of them seem to just get by.  Most of them have a DDR machine (often in use) and most have 40-60% of their machines as redemption games. None of them have an Ultracade machine.  I'm guessing it's probably cheaper to buy several old classics than one Ultracade machine, so it comes down to space issues.

Also, Ultracade has a "home use only" version called "Arcade Legends". (see their support page here for picture of it)  The odd thing about that is that the artwork on that cabinet, has more nostalgic draw, than the "for profit" version (which is ugly in my opinion).  I think a lot of people visiting an arcade are confused as to what an ultracade machine is.  The artwork and marquee don't say "Classic arcade games" to me. (I haven't seen the attract screens, but I'm guessing they don't get the message across either.  All that adds up to missed opportunity.  If it was legal to use the "Arcade Legends" cabinet for profit, they'd probably do much better.

[GamingGreg]

Here's a better picture of the "Arcade Legends" cabinet.
(Taken from this site here.)

[RetroBorg]

I don't know why they bother to sell those kits that contain both 8-way and 4-way games, can you imagine playing one of those Ultracade machines because Mr Do! is on it and then you realise you are using an 8-way joystick. Bummer!

I do like the artwork on the arcade legends cabinet though.

[Gideon]

Someone hack the front end out of it already!

I second that.