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Author Topic: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod  (Read 1226 times)

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nipsmg

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Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« on: October 17, 2018, 09:02:28 am »
I'm going to attempt a TV -> RGB mod to drive a MAME cabinet.

I'll be following the basic outline here:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=56155

Note: I'm not worried about audio, as I'll be running audio out from the PC to speakers, and I plan on driving this through the VGA port using CRT_EMUDriver.

Question is this:  I'm planning on wiring the R,G,B, and sync from the TV's jungle chip to a SCART connector on the back of the TV. 

If I do that, can I wire the appropriate wires from a VGA connector (VGA pins 1(R), 2(G), 3(B) and 13(sync)) to standard component cables to connect through something like this:

 

Should I just buy and hack up a SCART cable?

Should I not even bother with scart and use something like a 9-pin DIN?

I want to be able to connect and disconnect the TV easily, and want a clean, solid picture.

Thoughts?  Tips?  Encouragement/discouragement?

buttersoft

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 06:58:41 pm »
Quote
Encouragement/discouragement?

Encouragement :)

If you're going to mod the TV you need to learn how to discharge and handle the tube and chassis safely, regardless of whether you intend to decase and mount it. Read or watch at least six different tutorials on that and you should be well covered.

For a dedicated GroovyMAME cab - and you want GroovyMAME with crt_emudriver - there are two ways you could go. I'd stay away from DB9, personally. If you go for a SCART socket, you can get VGA-to-SCART cables that will take composite sync. And you can simply buy SCART cables for old consoles, though you will need to break out audio somehow, from what you've said.

The other route is going  DB15HD/VGA plug. That way you can just use normal VGA cables for the PC, which are cheap and easy. That doesn't cover old consoles though, and you'd need to make a breakout for those to spit off the audio for one, so why not add VGA onto that too and just plug into the TV the same way.

R,G,B,Sync and ground are all you need. Might be easiest to wire sync to the composite video line rather than the jungle directly. If the set won't turn on in AV mode though, see if you can find which pin on the jungle the internal video sync goes to from the tuner. MarkOZLAD and Syntax on the Shmups thread are the current wizards on RGB modding, if you need help.

When it comes to picking a card for crt_emudriver and GM, i wrote out a guide to supplement the install guide Calamity made - https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/87668-A-guide-to-connecting-your-Windows-PC-to-an-SD-CRT-TV-PVM-or-Arcade-Monitor

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 07:44:22 am »
Encouragement, definitely. I also want to do some RGB modding TVs soon.

On inputs, SCART has the advantage of dedicated audio L/R pins, and this might be important for some consoles (not really sure) or just for running mame sound through TV speakers (never really sounds as good because of interference, but maybe you can isolate the audio ground or something).

VGA is neat and easy though.

I just ordered a few of these VGA screw-terminal breakouts, which will be very convenient for doing retro-cabling:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-DB15-Male-D-SUB-3-Row-15Pin-VGA-Plug-Breakout-Terminal-Solderless-Connector/222636518113?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

With those I can use any old cable (shielded better for sure, but whatever cable) and just screw it in.
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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 02:46:51 pm »
Ok everyone, thanks for the encouragement.

I'm going with scart.  I'll be buying an HD-5000 from amazon for about $30.   I bought a scart coupler with 2 female scart connectors in it off ebay for cheap, so I have 2 to work with in case I screw one up.  I got a diesel scart cable from Amazon for $6:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DYEN1NQ/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll be wiring up R,G,B, Sync, and GND (because I need a 75 ohm pull down resistor to gnd for R,G,B on TV side) from VGA.

R,G,B, will go to requisite pins on jungle chip (i'll add teh 75 ohm pull down resistors and a .1uf coupling capacitor inline for each of the R,G,B lines on the scart connector on the TV side).  I'll switch in 5v high to the blanking pin on the jungle chip, and wire the sync from the vga to the composite input on the TV side.  This will all be switched so I can turn it off at will.


The following link has my plans for this... if someone wants to double-check them for me, that would be awesome: https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/9p96i1/getting_a_27fs100_for_rgb_mod_this_weekend_can/



Once this is done, the TV should accept a 15hkz signal from my PC using crt_emudriver without any other conversion, correct?

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 02:50:48 pm »
Also thoughts on this card?  (R7 250)

I can get an HD5000 for $35, but want somehting with a LITTLE 3d oomph for some 3d accelerated emulation.  (or should I go with a different compatible card.. suggestions?)

https://www.amazon.com/MSI-Radeon-R72402364P-Profile-PCI-Express/dp/B07D3VY8ZB/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1539888523&sr=1-2&keywords=radeon+r7

Ond

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 04:30:35 pm »
That's a great guide by buttersoft.  I'm just getting into this stuff as well.  I've taken my video feed  from a Radeon card with crt_emudriver using an HDMI to Component converter.  This works really well once I found the correct interlaced resolution from the added list. 

My problem is that I can't get this working unless I'm using extended video settings across two monitors?  If I disconnect my LCD Monitor from the setup I can't get a picture on the TV on PC boot-up that's not all messed up?

If I sort it out on my own, I'll post the answer!   ;D

Things I did to prepare for working with a TV - Learn about safely working with them as buttersoft says.

Purchased the service manual for  the TV I have 
You might think that you're scared, but you're not.  That isn't fear.  That's your sharpness.  That's your power.

buttersoft

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 06:52:01 pm »
Also thoughts on this card?  (R7 250)... want somehting with a LITTLE 3d oomph for some 3d accelerated emulation.

The only drawback i can see to that R7 240 is that it only does analog video from the VGA port, and the VGA port is connected by a ribbon cable, which might get a little video noise. I haven't actually used many mid range cards like that one, but it seems to be about 4x as powerful as a 5450, and the 5450 is a little underpowered for any 3D emulation. If you want modern 3D games you need something way more powerful again.

That's a great guide by buttersoft.  I'm just getting into this stuff as well.  I've taken my video feed  from a Radeon card with crt_emudriver using an HDMI to Component converter.  This works really well once I found the correct interlaced resolution from the added list. 

My problem is that I can't get this working unless I'm using extended video settings across two monitors?  If I disconnect my LCD Monitor from the setup I can't get a picture on the TV on PC boot-up that's not all messed up?

Cheers, man, happy to help. If you have a Radeon HD 5000 series or newer setup, the EDID emulation allowed by crt_emudriver can be turned on using VMM, but it only works with your card's analog video ports, IIRC. EDID tells windows what your monitor is capable of, usually in this case that it’s a 15kHz CRT. It locks that in, and windows doesn’t need to guess or default to anything on that port. In fact it doesn't even look at what the monitor says, it just uses what you've told it to. At the moment, however, your EDID is being provided by the LCD and then perhaps by the HDMI converter alone, and I think this is the problem. HDMI was never meant to carry SD video. But it’s difficult to diagnose what’s actually going on without being there. The converter might be meant to supplement an existing monitor, not replace it. With the LCD unplugged, have you tried booting up on an HD LCD TV? That might let you find out what resolution the HDMI converter is defaulting to.

An ideal setup would use analog RGB from the video card, into a VGA-to-component converter that gives a 1:1 conversion. This will get you better video quality, and would allow you to use EDID emulation as well.

TBH questions like this are better posted in the GroovyMAME forum, that’s the crt_emudriver support forum as well :) Someone else on there might be able to shed more light.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 07:01:21 pm by buttersoft »

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 08:33:53 pm »
I've taken my video feed  from a Radeon card with crt_emudriver using an HDMI to Component converter.  This works really well once I found the correct interlaced resolution from the added list.

OND, I'm pretty sure those HDMI-component converters just take the same video mode (eg 640x480) and scale to the same size interlaced mode in component, in which case you are losing a lot in terms of image quality, video modes etc. Everything is re-scaled/squeezed into 640x480i? The best commercially available analog RGB->component converter I currently know about is the J-ROK unit, which costs about $US80:
http://www.arcadeshop.com/i/773/rgb-to-ntsc-video-encoder-deluxe-v4.1.htm

I'm too cheap for that, so I recently (yesterday) got a pack of 20 BA7230LS ICs which can be used to create a VGA-component converter! All I need now is a component input TV <faceplant>. I'll get around to it one day, will post results when it happens.

Back to RGB modding TVs: The main idea behind RGB modding is to directly inject RGB signals into a TV that doesn't normally have RGB inputs like SCART, usually via the "Jungle" IC or the via OSD (On Screen Display). This will give you the best results possible for our CGA retrogaming. What this means is that there is a good chance you can RGB mod that component input TV!


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Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 08:59:58 pm »
Ok everyone, thanks for the encouragement.

I'm going with scart.

Cools.

Quote
I'll be buying an HD-5000 from amazon for about $30.   I bought a scart coupler with 2 female scart connectors in it off ebay for cheap, so I have 2 to work with in case I screw one up.  I got a diesel scart cable from Amazon for $6:

That seems to be a great price for that cable! Also suggest you invest in some SCART male headers like these for making new cables:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-PLUG-CONNECTOR-ASSEMBLY-SOLDER-TYPE-Packs-of-1-2-5-10-FREE-UK-DELIVERY/332710215271?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=541840263638&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Those ones come with solder "buckets" for you to solder too, but I actually prefer the SCART headers with male spade ends as you can attach female 3mm crimps to your wires and connect very neatly by just sliding them on (no soldering!). I've made dozens of VGA-SCART cables before and the headers with spade connectors are definitely the easiest/neatest to use... (did I mention NO SOLDERING required?)

Quote
I'll be wiring up R,G,B, Sync, and GND (because I need a 75 ohm pull down resistor to gnd for R,G,B on TV side) from VGA.

R,G,B, will go to requisite pins on jungle chip (i'll add teh 75 ohm pull down resistors and a .1uf coupling capacitor inline for each of the R,G,B lines on the scart connector on the TV side).  I'll switch in 5v high to the blanking pin on the jungle chip, and wire the sync from the vga to the composite input on the TV side.  This will all be switched so I can turn it off at will.

iirc the actual choice of capacitor may depend on your particular TV, you may need to experiment a little.

Quote
Once this is done, the TV should accept a 15hkz signal from my PC using crt_emudriver without any other conversion, correct?

Let's see how we go first, but you're definitely on the right track :D
Check out my completed projects!


nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 09:49:33 pm »
Thanks for all the info guys.  Iím actually excited about a project for the first tine in a long time.

I do have a very newbie question.  I read about the hd5000 series+ being Ďsaferí for crt_emudriver.  What does that mean exactly?  I am ordering an R7, but I have a hd4350 in hand.  Is there any Ďdangerí in using that to test the RGB mod initially?  I know he second I have this CRT Iím going to want to mod and test it.

Ond

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 09:59:28 pm »
Also thanks from me, I went with a cheap HDMI to component converter because my Radeon card only had HDMI out.  That said, there are plenty of cheap used cards with a VGA port so I'll look for one of them to go with a VGA-to-component converter.   :cheers:
You might think that you're scared, but you're not.  That isn't fear.  That's your sharpness.  That's your power.

buttersoft

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2018, 10:05:15 pm »
Thanks for all the info guys.  Iím actually excited about a project for the first tine in a long time.

I do have a very newbie question.  I read about the hd5000 series+ being Ďsaferí for crt_emudriver.  What does that mean exactly?  I am ordering an R7, but I have a hd4350 in hand.  Is there any Ďdangerí in using that to test the RGB mod initially?  I know he second I have this CRT Iím going to want to mod and test it.

See my post above about EDID emulation. This can only be enabled using crt_emudriver 2.0 on a Radeon HD 5000 card or newer, or newer APU. It doesn't work on Radeon HD 2000, 3000 or 4000 series cards.

The 4350 should be fine to pay with, to test things out. Just make sure you have a way to go back or a killswitch handy. It doesn't really hurt to feed an out-of-range signal to your monitor for short periods during testing, and anyway it might work fine.  But long term you're guaranteed to get problems somewhere, and the more you play around the more likely that is.

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2018, 10:31:36 pm »
Any guidance on min required wire gauge ?

buttersoft

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2018, 10:40:59 pm »
Anything, really. Video signals are low voltage and low current. For cables you want shielded lengths of 75R impedance, but for very short runs it's not so critical.

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2018, 11:24:31 pm »
Any guidance on min required wire gauge ?

I find AWG 22 works pretty well for a range of retrogaming applications, from video signals to joystick switches.
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nitrogen_widget

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2018, 01:54:33 pm »

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2018, 07:07:54 pm »
I am driving 2 hrs each way to get this friggin thing.. I thought it was closer.

Oh well.  SCART cable in hand, switches and vga breakout on the way by Sunday, scart female connectors in hopefully wed.  Will make quick progress.

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2018, 08:12:31 pm »
Mannnn, doncha hate that cooldown period between making your grand evil plans, and waiting for the stuff to be  delivered...

Good thing about retrogaming is that there is always something else to do while waiting, so that you can keep your fire stoked :D
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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2018, 04:17:07 pm »
Yeah wrk, I just did the 4 hr round trip to get this thing.  Looks in great shape, really sharp. Will likely attempt the mod sometime this week.  Depends on when this scart coupler comes.  Was shipped with no tracking info from the UK .... :(

Zebra

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2018, 02:02:10 pm »
Out of interest, why would use a scart port if the plan is to connect a PC which uses a standard db15 output port?

It seems like some people think that the type of plug used would limit the options for what type of sync you could connect. You can wire any type of RGB connector for composite sync, seperate sync or sync on green. There is no intelligence inside a scart or db15 plug which prevents composite sync.

You should use the most convenient plug type for the source you plan to use. If you planned to hook up an old SNES or PS1, a scart port would make sense as cheap scart cables for this consoles are readily available. For a PC with CRT EMU, BNC or db15 makes the most sense.

There is no need to waste money on BNC to scart or db15 to scart adapters.

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2018, 03:00:03 pm »
Out of interest, why would use a scart port if the plan is to connect a PC which uses a standard db15 output port?

It seems like some people think that the type of plug used would limit the options for what type of sync you could connect. You can wire any type of RGB connector for composite sync, seperate sync or sync on green. There is no intelligence inside a scart or db15 plug which prevents composite sync.

You should use the most convenient plug type for the source you plan to use. If you planned to hook up an old SNES or PS1, a scart port would make sense as cheap scart cables for this consoles are readily available. For a PC with CRT EMU, BNC or db15 makes the most sense.

There is no need to waste money on BNC to scart or db15 to scart adapters.


Excellent question.... that I don't have a good answer for.  Most of the mods out there that I found used SCART,and I was following a step-by-step guide.   I had already ordered the stuff, then realized.... why am I doing this.. but had already ordered the 2 female scart ends, a male to male scart cable, and a db15 breakout adapter.

so it's vga->scart apparently.   
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 03:01:42 pm by nipsmg »

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2018, 04:05:39 pm »
Out of interest, why would use a scart port if the plan is to connect a PC which uses a standard db15 output port?...

Didn't we just have this discussion earlier in the thread?


If you planned to hook up an old SNES or PS1, a scart port would make sense as cheap scart cables for this consoles are readily available.

And there is an excellent answer, interchangeability. By making the inputs to a SCART standard you can readily use existing cables to connect whatever system you want. The cables for these systems (linking to SCART) already exist. You also have "standard" inputs readily available to use for audio to TV speakers (assuming you bother to wire them up to your new SCART port, of course).

You could also wire audio up to a DB15 (VGA) port, but you'd be making it up as there is no standard layout for audio via VGA port. Your cable would only be useful for yourself and that TV (or any others that you wire up according to your newly established "standard").

On the other hand, some do it all VGA, including people who have done many RGB mods. If all you care about is RGB input from PCs then VGA ports are probably more efficient (smaller, at least). But if you want to connect audio & other systems with standard SCART cables/pinouts, then SCART seems to make more sense.
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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2018, 04:07:25 pm »
In this case, the plan is to decase the TV and hang it in an arcade cabinet, essentially using it only as an arcade monitor.  Audio is not a concern, so in this SPECIFIC case I probably should have gone with VGA, but didn't.

Oh well.

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2018, 06:42:23 pm »
If you ppl had actually read my first post... :)

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2018, 06:59:13 pm »
Everything Iíve done in this hobby has been over complicated... why stop now?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 08:58:04 pm by nipsmg »

buttersoft

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2018, 07:30:05 pm »
Hah, same. So many things, so many mods to mods i could have done cheaper and more smoothly leading to so many Frankenstein additions inside my cabs :D

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2018, 12:02:29 pm »
Out of interest, why would use a scart port if the plan is to connect a PC which uses a standard db15 output port?...

Didn't we just have this discussion earlier in the thread?


If you planned to hook up an old SNES or PS1, a scart port would make sense as cheap scart cables for this consoles are readily available.

And there is an excellent answer, interchangeability. By making the inputs to a SCART standard you can readily use existing cables to connect whatever system you want. The cables for these systems (linking to SCART) already exist. You also have "standard" inputs readily available to use for audio to TV speakers (assuming you bother to wire them up to your new SCART port, of course).

You could also wire audio up to a DB15 (VGA) port, but you'd be making it up as there is no standard layout for audio via VGA port. Your cable would only be useful for yourself and that TV (or any others that you wire up according to your newly established "standard").

On the other hand, some do it all VGA, including people who have done many RGB mods. If all you care about is RGB input from PCs then VGA ports are probably more efficient (smaller, at least). But if you want to connect audio & other systems with standard SCART cables/pinouts, then SCART seems to make more sense.

Didn't he say it was going to be used with a PC...

Sound is no issue as it is better to run speakers off a sound card / amp. A sound card could also connect direct to the TV's phone port.

Using scart does make more sense for old consoles but for a PC, it's more of an inconvenience than a help. Just one more adapter to buy and scart to vga ones seem to be unreasonably expensive (when you could have used any vga cable you have on-hand).

I used to use scart to connect my consoles when I lived in the UK. It gets the job done but I can't say I miss using them. I prefer BNC for scenarios where I use multiple machines on the same rgb port.

But... to each his own. It just seemed to be worth mentioning that a person doesn't have to use one or the other to get the sync type they need.

Also, a tip for people who don't like soldering. You can get DB15 (vga) breakout boards on eBay for less than $10 and they allow you to connect wire to conveniently labeled screw terminals. They are very handy for make diy adapters too.

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2018, 03:09:46 pm »
I got one of those break-out boards....  and I'm slowly leaning towards using it and mounting it to the back of the TV and just doing VGA...  I'm getting started this week (thurs or fri)... so the decision will be based partly on how I'm feeling at the time, and partly on whether or not the female SCART connectors come in on time.

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2018, 12:24:01 am »
I just ordered a few of these VGA screw-terminal breakouts, which will be very convenient for doing retro-cabling:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-x-DB15-Male-D-SUB-3-Row-15Pin-VGA-Plug-Breakout-Terminal-Solderless-Connector/222636518113?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

With those I can use any old cable (shielded better for sure, but whatever cable) and just screw it in.

If you ppl had actually read my first post... :)

Also, a tip for people who don't like soldering. You can get DB15 (vga) breakout boards on eBay for less than $10 and they allow you to connect wire to conveniently labeled screw terminals. They are very handy for make diy adapters too.

Ummmm, yep.

As you'd already know, having read the thread, I ordered a pack of 10 for $30 last week and posted the idea here. No more scrounging around for crappy old VGA cables. They should be very useful, glad you like them too   :cheers:

Buttersoft, you are so right. :laugh2:
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Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2018, 12:54:09 am »
I got one of those break-out boards....  and I'm slowly leaning towards using it and mounting it to the back of the TV and just doing VGA...  I'm getting started this week (thurs or fri)... so the decision will be based partly on how I'm feeling at the time, and partly on whether or not the female SCART connectors come in on time.

Mostly you would want female to make a VGA port on your TV?

You can also buy female VGA breakouts, if you want, for an easy TV VGA port:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DB15-Female-3-Row-15Pin-D-SUB-VGA-Plug-Breakout-Terminal-Board-Connector/183478974910?hash=item2ab832f9be:g:psAAAOSw0kRbvXSC:rk:7:pf:0

Alternatively, you could just solder up to a normal female VGA 3-row DB15 connector to the TV (cheaper, more permanent)? This way you can still easily access the new female port's pins from outside by using a normal VGA cable or by plugging in a male VGA breakout:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lot-VGA-male-Female-Jack-Socket-DB15-15Pin-D-SUB-3-Row-Solder-Connector-Adapter/122655876174?hash=item1c8edc244e:m:mFfma5u48-MSsgvGYGtzzXA:rk:6:pf:0
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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2018, 07:03:43 am »
Yeah, I landed on just using a female VGA connector on the TV end.  Should be trivially easy to wire it up, and I won't be using it for anything other than an arcade monitor.   I ordered a Radeon R7 240 that should be in tomorrow.  I also purchased a wii component cable so I can run the 240p test suite on my wii and test out the screen geometry.

I'm doing the mod either tomorrow after work or Friday, so wish me luck.


Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2018, 09:07:42 am »
I'm doing the mod either tomorrow after work or Friday, so wish me luck.

Good luck nipsmg!

Did you get around to determining whether your TV's jungle IC supports RGB inputs?

On my own RGB TV project - I just spent best part of yesterday digging around a new 21" CRT TV I've got, and unfortunately it seems that it doesn't support RGB inputs to the jungle/OSD chip (it only has a single combo chip, takes Y/Pr/Pb, S-video, composite inputs only). It outputs to the neckboard in RGB after that, but that isn't going to be very useful. If I input the signals at that late stage, they would bypass all the goodness of video processing for brightness/contrast/black levels/cutoffs etc.

Never mind, the tube will still be good for attaching to an arcade monitor chassis.... Or maybe it's time to try making that VGA-component adapter I keep on talking about :D

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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2018, 02:39:56 pm »
I'm 100% certain the Sony 27FS100 supports RGB in (that's why I drove so far to get it).  There are quite a few examples out there for this tube specifically. 

My plan is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/9p96i1/getting_a_27fs100_for_rgb_mod_this_weekend_can/

Some 27FS100 mods:


I've been reading the shmups thread in depth the past few days, and there's apparently a better way to hack into the OSD RGB inputs inline that allows them to be overlaid on the picture (so you can see volume/system menus, etc).  I may go that route, so the plan in that reddit post might change.  Not sure yet.

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2018, 03:49:11 pm »
I'm 100% certain the Sony 27FS100 supports RGB in (that's why I drove so far to get it).  There are quite a few examples out there for this tube specifically. 

My plan is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/9p96i1/getting_a_27fs100_for_rgb_mod_this_weekend_can/

Ah yes, I should have recalled that from looking at your reddit thread last week. Can't see any reason for it to not work. Looking forward to the weekend!


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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2018, 05:13:59 pm »
So.. I snapped a collector off the neck board, and my dad broke a diode on the board.  *sigh* gonna be another week.

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2018, 06:27:41 pm »
So.. I snapped a collector off the neck board, and my dad broke a diode on the board.  *sigh* gonna be another week.

Yikes... no dedicated workspace?
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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2018, 05:45:25 am »
It was actually two connectors that did not want to come off.  Tied pulling with hands , pliers, then prying.. bad idea. Also,just crappy RadioShack desoldering braid, not great tools.  We will fix and get resolved in the next week.  Ok the meantime iíll Get everything also done I can.  *sigh*

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2018, 08:43:06 am »
Also,just crappy RadioShack desoldering braid, not great tools.

I tend to prefer a solder pump, though sometimes braid/wick is the only way to go. Usually people tend to prefer one or the other  :dunno

My second RGB mod exploration just ended disastrously. 30-sumpting Old Sony F25M23 TV gained from in-laws some years ago, composite inputs. It's the Thai model, and all the repair info I can find online is in Thai. Good thing I can read Thai. Good so far, but still no service manual, and I'm guessing it's jungle is  Y/Pb/Pr inputs only from a manual for one similar. Naturally, instead of turning her on, I opened her up. Dirty as hell, Dad was a smoker (now quit) and Mum cooked near the TV so it looked horrible in there. Thought I'd pull everything out and clean it all with my air compressor.

Discharged the tube, gently took off the neckboard... then the glass and pin mount disintegrated. Saw lots of carbon scoring around the first(?) pin, obviously some serious high voltage sh!t has been going down. No kidding, the glass has disintegrated into power from whatever was going on. No wonder they wanted to get rid of it!

Decided to scrap that TV, tube is dead and chassis obviously has problems. Taking any useful bits off before I take it for proper disposal at the waste centre an hour drive away (local one can't deal with electronic waste).

Ah well, back to the drawing board (and asking for pre-loved TV donations).

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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2018, 01:37:50 pm »
YAY Progress:

Done:
  • Replaced Zener diode destroyed while attempting to pry off a connector
  • Fixed high voltage connector ripped off neck board because I thought it was a faston..  ::)
  • Desoldered and bent up pins on the jungle chip
  • Soldered RGB + Blanking pin wires to chip and to holes beneath chip
  • Soldered R,G,B,SYnc,Gnd wires to VGA connector
  • Created small perfboard for resistors to ground and caps for RGB wires from VGA connector and soldered all wires in.

ToDo:
  • Wire RGB + Blank from chip to Molex Connector
  • Wire RGB + Blank form holes under chip to Molex Connector
  • Wire RGB from VGA to switch
  • Wire +5v from board to molex connector.
  • Wire GND from board to molex connector.
  • Wire sVideo luma pin to molex connector
  • Wire RGB+Blank on other side of molex connector (X2) to switch
  • Wire +5v from other side of molex connector to VGA connector RGB side of switch
  • Wire GND from VGA to GND pin on molex
  • Wire SYNC from VGA connector to SVIdeo Luma pin on Molex
  • Play some games!!!!!

Some images from the wiring (click to enlarge):

« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 01:54:24 pm by nipsmg »

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2018, 02:35:03 pm »
YAY Progress:

Done:
  • Replaced Zener diode destroyed while attempting to pry off a connector
  • Fixed high voltage connector ripped off neck board because I thought it was a faston..  ::)
  • Desoldered and bent up pins on the jungle chip

Dooooode, its a jungle chip, not jungle gym...

Quote
  • Soldered RGB + Blanking pin wires to chip and to holes beneath chip
  • Soldered R,G,B,SYnc,Gnd wires to VGA connector
  • Created small perfboard for resistors to ground and caps for RGB wires from VGA connector and soldered all wires in.

Specs? Details!

Quote
ToDo:
  • Wire RGB + Blank from chip to Molex Connector
  • Wire RGB + Blank form holes under chip to Molex Connector
  • Wire RGB from VGA to switch
  • Wire +5v from board to molex connector.
  • Wire GND from board to molex connector.
  • Wire sVideo luma pin to molex connector
  • Wire RGB+Blank on other side of molex connector (X2) to switch
  • Wire +5v from other side of molex connector to VGA connector RGB side of switch
  • Wire GND from VGA to GND pin on molex
  • Wire SYNC from VGA connector to SVIdeo Luma pin on Molex
  • Play some games!!!!!

Some images from the wiring (click to enlarge):



Good luck with finishing this!
Z.
Check out my completed projects!


  
 

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