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Author Topic: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod  (Read 1223 times)

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nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2018, 02:59:58 pm »
So..

Got everything wired up, reconnected al the cables on the boards, put the neck board back on, plugged in my molex connector, connected to vga, got all excited to try it out..

Plugged in the tv and..

CCCRRRAAACCCKKK

Because... my dumb ass forgot to put the anode cap back on. TV non-responsive after putting the cap back on. No picture, Just get flashing red led on front panel.

Good news is most of the hard work is done.. I have the vga wired to a perfboard with my resistors and caps, wired to a 4pdt switch, all wired to a molex .. and the other side iím Just going to clip at the jungle chip, so Iíll just need to solder back into another tv..... when I find one.  And now I have to dispose of this one. * sigh*

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2018, 04:46:49 pm »
Yikes! Bad news indeed. Wonder what TV components you blew up? Flyback, HVR, HOT ... well, I've always wondered what'd happen if you turned on the power without the anode cap attached, and this is pretty close to my imagination. Lucky it wasn't worse :D

Safety, safety, safety. Even more important than discharging anode caps, you need to keep a cool head when hacking TVs. I walk away from my projects as often as not because I'm too tired, too bored/focused, too angry, too frustrated, too fired-up, too drunk. Take a break and come back a little later, with a fresh mind you see problems/solutions that you couldn't before.

It is always a good idea to spend 30 seconds to a minute or so triple checking that everything is connected properly before plugging power in, starting with that anode!

Anyway, enough of the safety lecture. Can you identify what bits you've zapped? Probably not worth repairing the TV, unless you have a pretty good idea of what you've blown, how to fix it and access to spares (eg donor TV). Alternatively you could keep it as your donor TV, until trash-time comes anyway. The next TV you find might be a compatible Sony too!

If you're going to trash the TV, suggest that you pull some useful and re-usable bits for future hacks eg power switches (AC rated!), speakers, video/audio input jacks.  Flyback could possibly be useful if it isn't dead and suits a compatible TV, but that is a long shot. Beyond the fairly simple stuff, its probably not worth keeping old TV components for long if you don't know what they are for/potential use.

If you're not going to keep/give away the tube (people are often looking for tubes, although it is not your responsibility to find them), you could pull off any rubber feet and magnetic strips off the yoke area, degaussing coil, grounding leads etc before trashing the tube.
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Paradroid

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2018, 05:57:19 pm »
Safety, safety, safety. Even more important than discharging anode caps, you need to keep a cool head when hacking TVs. I walk away from my projects as often as not because I'm too tired, too bored/focused, too angry, too frustrated, too fired-up, too drunk. Take a break and come back a little later, with a fresh mind you see problems/solutions that you couldn't before.

Solid advice. A printed checklist (with tickboxes) is good too e.g. anode attached, ground wire attached, neckboard seated firmly, yoke plugs attached, degauss coil attached, etc. Can save a lot of grief.
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

nitrogen_widget

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2018, 09:37:00 pm »
I know the too drunk one.
was wiring up my rpi to control my hot tun and testing the relays and zapped myself pretty good because I forgot to cut power.
LOL!

No more drinking while working on electrical stuff. :)

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2018, 06:44:00 am »

Solid advice. A printed checklist (with tickboxes) is good too e.g. anode attached, ground wire attached, neckboard seated firmly, yoke plugs attached, degauss coil attached, etc. Can save a lot of grief.

Checklist is definitely necessary for me.  In this case I was just excited to give it a shot and overlooked it.  Everything else I had written down, like molex Pinouts , wiring diagrams, etc I quadruple-checked.


Paradroid

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2018, 03:43:29 pm »
In this case I was just excited to give it a shot and overlooked it.

Yes... definitely been there before!
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2018, 04:42:26 pm »
Got a line on an KV-27FV300 which is a better model with the exact same pinout on the jungle (w00t).

I may be going to pick it up today (we'll see).



Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2018, 09:12:29 pm »

Solid advice. A printed checklist (with tickboxes) is good too e.g. anode attached, ground wire attached, neckboard seated firmly, yoke plugs attached, degauss coil attached, etc. Can save a lot of grief.

Checklist is definitely necessary for me.  In this case I was just excited to give it a shot and overlooked it.  Everything else I had written down, like molex Pinouts , wiring diagrams, etc I quadruple-checked.

Here's a useful checklist to use before turning on CRTs for servicing/testing, shamelessly ripped off another forum in the interests of promoting safety:

1) No crap/dust/dirt/filth on chassis or back of tube
2) Anode area clean, anode cap seated firmly and both clips engaged
3) Neckboard connected properly
4) Ground wire connected to neckboard
5) Yoke connector connected to chassis
6) Degauss coil fitted/connected (Note: some arcade chassis do not include degauss circuit)
7) Any other connections specific to your CRT, eg sub-PCBs for geometry, power, tuner, inputs etc
8) RGB/S connected to chassis (including video amp, required by most arcade monitors)
9) Power connected to chassis (including isolation transformer, often required for arcade monitor)

Isolation transformers are a good idea for testing, regardless off whether your monitor needs them, as they create a local ground loop. In summary, this means that shorts to ground won't happen through you (usually, unless you really push your luck), and thus you are more likely to stay alive. Worth considering.

If you are too tired or whatever to do these checks properly, go away and sleep or eat or do something else. Come back a bit later.
Check out my completed projects!


nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2018, 01:14:28 pm »
I picked up the 27FV300, and the picture looks amazing.. so we're going to try this again.  (With the proper checklist.. with CHECK ANODE CAP listed every other line. :)

Based on the RGB mod thread over at shmups.system11.org:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155&sid=958598290234963ba5997d9d4731ade9&start=1980

These are the notes for the BA-5D chassis.

Quote
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My notes for the BA-5D chassis:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RGB Notes
"OSD Mux

Remove R020, R022, R024 SMD resistors that are on the OSD lines. Use 680R or 750R on External RGB lines as well as the normal 75R termination

There are a set of jumper wires on the OSD RGB lines that can be used as our RGB injection point or the solder points from the removed resistors"

Blanking Notes
"5V on Diode leg from OSD Ys. Could possibly put Scart pin 16 to L304."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This method will mux in the OSD display along with my OSD signal, so I can get volume and system menus up on the screen if need be, without having to switch the mod on/off.   I now only need a 1PST switch to turn on and off the 5v line to the blanking pin to disable the screen blanking.  This will allow me to still use other inputs on the TV.  Until I have everything adjusted right, I will need component to run the 240p test suite from my WiiU to check geometry, color balance, etc.

This method does not require me to lift the legs of the Jungle IC (YAY).  This board has TONS... TONS of exposed jumpers on the topside of the board I can tap into, I will just need to get my multimeter and trace out the lines.  I'll still have to take the A board out, as I need to remove the indicated SMD resistors.. and I believe all of the surface mount components are bottom-side.  Still, this will be a LOT less difficult than the previous attempt.

I'm hoping to get some of this (if not all of it) done this weekend, but that depends on my other commitments.  Either way, I plan on being DONE with the physical part of this mod by Wednesday next week.


Arroyo

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2018, 02:32:59 pm »
I picked up the 27FV300, and the picture looks amazing.. so we're going to try this again.  (With the proper checklist.. with CHECK ANODE CAP listed every other line. :)

Based on the RGB mod thread over at shmups.system11.org:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155&sid=958598290234963ba5997d9d4731ade9&start=1980

These are the notes for the BA-5D chassis.

Quote
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My notes for the BA-5D chassis:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RGB Notes
"OSD Mux

Remove R020, R022, R024 SMD resistors that are on the OSD lines. Use 680R or 750R on External RGB lines as well as the normal 75R termination

There are a set of jumper wires on the OSD RGB lines that can be used as our RGB injection point or the solder points from the removed resistors"

Blanking Notes
"5V on Diode leg from OSD Ys. Could possibly put Scart pin 16 to L304."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This method will mux in the OSD display along with my OSD signal, so I can get volume and system menus up on the screen if need be, without having to switch the mod on/off.   I now only need a 1PST switch to turn on and off the 5v line to the blanking pin to disable the screen blanking.  This will allow me to still use other inputs on the TV.  Until I have everything adjusted right, I will need component to run the 240p test suite from my WiiU to check geometry, color balance, etc.

This method does not require me to lift the legs of the Jungle IC (YAY).  This board has TONS... TONS of exposed jumpers on the topside of the board I can tap into, I will just need to get my multimeter and trace out the lines.  I'll still have to take the A board out, as I need to remove the indicated SMD resistors.. and I believe all of the surface mount components are bottom-side.  Still, this will be a LOT less difficult than the previous attempt.

I'm hoping to get some of this (if not all of it) done this weekend, but that depends on my other commitments.  Either way, I plan on being DONE with the physical part of this mod by Wednesday next week.


I just picked up one of these the other day.  Just curious why you donít use the RGB component connections in the back?  All you need is a transcoder (no loss in quality whatsoever) and you can skip all the hassle of a hack.

Paradroid

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2018, 04:39:57 pm »
Just curious why you donít use the RGB component connections in the back?  All you need is a transcoder (no loss in quality whatsoever) and you can skip all the hassle of a hack.

"Imperceptible"? Perhaps! "No loss in quality whatsoever"? Not strictly true.

Anyway, once you know how to perform the mod, it's WAY cheaper than buying a decent transcoder.
My MAME/SCART/CRT blog: SCART Hunter

Arroyo

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2018, 04:54:33 pm »
"Imperceptible"? Perhaps! "No loss in quality whatsoever"? Not strictly true.

Anyway, once you know how to perform the mod, it's WAY cheaper than buying a decent transcoder.

Hehe, yeah kinda regretted that language after I hit post.  Good to know, thanks for posting. 

Good luck nipsmg, will watch with great interest.

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2018, 05:15:45 pm »
So I'm driving this with CRT_Emudriver, and I was under the impression that using a transcoder could cause issuse with the sync.  -- I want as little interference in that chain as possible, because I need to see what the sync range of this tube /chassis is.  This is direct injection of sync and RGB - no interference.

Arroyo

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2018, 09:23:58 pm »
So I'm driving this with CRT_Emudriver, and I was under the impression that using a transcoder could cause issuse with the sync.  -- I want as little interference in that chain as possible, because I need to see what the sync range of this tube /chassis is.  This is direct injection of sync and RGB - no interference.


If thatís true Iíd love to know as Iím using a transcoder.  So far Iím happy with the image quality, although Iím only 3 days into setting it up, and I havenít perceived any of the issues with tearing, etc:

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 07:13:12 am »
Well damn.  That looks good.

If I knew that it would look that good and hadnít already invested the time and research I would go that route all day. 

Oh well, not much I can do now

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 07:28:40 am »
CRT_emudriver is fine wrt sync. Note that you can set CRT_emudriver to only output composite sync. This is sufficient.

Component conversion does involve a very small delay on the Y channel in the transcoding stage, but for most purposes/people the delay will be unnoticable.

Arroyo: If you want to discuss component vs RGB further, I suggest you open a new thread, rather than derailing this one, as the OP is clearly about RGB modding.

What transcoder are you using? I ask because most of them are rubbish, although good ones do exist. The only good one I know to be currently available is the JROK and it costs $US80, which is more than the cost of a new CRT TV. An RGB mod should cost <$US5. So go figure that out with whomever manages your purse-strings.

I've already done a "double-mod", that is a RGB->component->TV hack, using my own RGB2YUV circuit, and I can confirm that it looked great. Really really good. I did it recently while waiting for other things to happen (ie I was temporarily bored had the stuff on hand). In summary, I was impressed, about 90-95% of what RGB can do, a possible/passable substitute or RGB. However, the only way component would be better than RGB is if the RGB is low-quality (and the component good).

I'd post more about my double-mod here, but I already have on another forum, am currently having issues with it due to too much meddling (mostly regarding the TV mod part, not the RGB2YUV mod part). Also, I don't want to upset this thread, and won't start a new thread here until I've worked out those issues to my own satisfaction.
Check out my completed projects!


Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #56 on: Yesterday at 07:34:56 am »
Well damn.  That looks good.

If I knew that it would look that good and hadnít already invested the time and research I would go that route all day. 

Oh well, not much I can do now

Don't be disheartened, you are already on the right path. RGB modding your TV (vs component) is a "good" thing.
Check out my completed projects!


Arroyo

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 12:21:30 pm »
If I knew that it would look that good and hadnít already invested the time and research I would go that route all day. 

Nah if anything Iím rooting for you, as to Zebideeís and Paradroidís point, this is way cheaper and if you can pull it off Iíll definitely be copying you in the future.  Especially because you could use the technique on TVís without component input.

Arroyo: If you want to discuss component vs RGB further, I suggest you open a new thread, rather than derailing this one, as the OP is clearly about RGB modding.

Definitely not trying to derail the thread, more of a curiosity as to the reason of hacking, and now I get it. Apologies nipsmg if I did.

Quote
What transcoder are you using?

(Retrotek VGACTV1) https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192116647418

Quote
An RGB mod should cost <$US5. So go figure that out with whomever manages your purse-strings.

All the more reason to watch this thread.  :cheers:

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 06:31:28 pm »
... transcoder?

(Retrotek VGACTV1) https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192116647418

Quote
An RGB mod should cost <$US5. So go figure that out with whomever manages your purse-strings.

All the more reason to watch this thread.  :cheers:

The transcoder you linked to looks good, thanks :D but it costs $US90! I'm trying to see what I can do for cheaper.

Once you have your RGB2YUV sorted out, getting the component TV mod done can be even easier than an RGB mod. RGB hacks usually use the OSD's inputs to the jungle IC. However, most jungle ICs will have primary YUV inputs already (and if they have primary RGB inputs, obviously use those). The advantage of hacking a primary input is that there is no need for hacking blanking signals or OSD/RGB input switches, you can just select the relevant AV mode.

My TV doesn't have component input ports, but the jungle IC has component primary input pins and unused PCB trace lines terminated with 0.01uF caps (103 ceramic).That's where I'm doing my hack's component inputs. There are no RGB inputs on the jungle IC, and the OSD is built-in so OSD hack not possible.  Thus hacking component inputs is the only way, unless I want to hack the neck inputs, hurrr...

Currently I'm working on my "gumption" levels (motivation) as the double-mod was previously working great, looking at least as good as a typical arcade monitor, now isn't working at all, mostly due to my own Farkups. I'm soldering up my 2nd prototype RGB2YUV circuit now (we can rebuild!), and will then have to convince the TV to accept it (by fiddling with options in service mode). Anyway, I'll have to sort out the issues with these mods before saying any more, assuming I find enough "gumption", and will probably start a new thread to do so.

Check out my completed projects!


nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 06:40:56 pm »
So... what I would say is this.  If you are going to go through the Ďtroubleí of RGB modding a set... donít settle for an RGB ->YUV mod when you can find a set with component video for free on Craigslist. All u need is a crt with a jungle IC that has RGB OSD lines..


Look at this thread.  Then check Craigslist.
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=56155

nipsmg

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #60 on: Yesterday at 06:52:29 pm »
Based on my experience so far and my mistakes.  If you donít blow up a set you can EASILY RGB mod a set for <$25.  Wire, a few resistors, and a VGA or scart female port.

Arroyo

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #61 on: Yesterday at 07:05:37 pm »
Based on my experience so far and my mistakes.  If you donít blow up a set you can EASILY RGB mod a set for <$25.  Wire, a few resistors, and a VGA or scart female port.

Watching with enthusiasm nipsmg, love to see what you come up with.

Zebidee

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Re: Going to attempt an TV RGB mod
« Reply #62 on: Yesterday at 10:34:37 pm »
Based on my experience so far and my mistakes.  If you donít blow up a set you can EASILY RGB mod a set for <$25.  Wire, a few resistors, and a VGA or scart female port.

Probably even <$5, but yeah very little, it depends on how much you pay for the bits n pieces.
Check out my completed projects!


  
 

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