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Author Topic: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?  (Read 2348 times)

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Laythe

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2018, 06:57:50 pm »
In movies, some people believe "I can always spot CGI, it looks fake", and that cracks me up when they say it.

What they are actually saying is, "I can always recognize anything that I recognized as being computer generated as being computer generated."

This is true.  And also pretty much a tautology.

Every time they've gone "Man, this CGI effect looks lousy", that was very likely a CGI effect, sure.  But the time it worked for them, they didn't go "Man, this CGI effect is amazing."  They went "Man, that was a good movie."  The pool of personal experience they are forming opinions out of is largely made out of pure sampling bias, because it had to suck for them to add it to their body of data.

In games, it feels to me as a game developer that we're asymptotically approaching reality.  Each step of "a little more realistic" costs twice as much to pull off as the last one did.  GTA5 cost 260 freaking million dollars to make.  That's the GDP of some carribean countries right there.  It was a bit more realistic than GTA4 looked, and it cost 2.5x as much.  How many more steps like that can we make?

dkersten

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2018, 07:37:19 pm »
I grew up computer gaming.  I started with the Commodore Vic20, moved to the AppleIIc, and then got into x86 computers.  I have owned nearly every generation of Intel CPU since the 386 and every nVidia GPU since the Riva 128.  I have watched games go from 4 bit graphics and text to graphical realism that blew me away with each new generation.  I barely game any more, so when I see what a modern gaming rig can do, it is even more impressive because I missed some of the small steps.  Stuff that used to take warehouses filled with computers weeks to generate can now be done in real time with my home computer with higher quality.

Perhaps it is because I understand the complexity of what is going on, or perhaps it is because I grew up paying attention to the progression and savored every moment of it.  Either way, I will never stop being impressed.

Some people look at a Ferrari and scoff and say that they could build a Honda that could outperform it, so they are unimpressed.
Some people look at a rocket that can take off from earth, orbit, and land under power all controlled by AI and scoff and ask when they will get flying cars.
Some people look at a modern computer OS that has billions of lines of code and scoff and say it is buggy and still doesn't have the features they really want.

Some people just can't be impressed, and this world will never be good enough for them.

I am the opposite of those people.  I love that technology has grown to where it is, and I can't wait to see what happens next, even if it ends up being a dystopia where the rich have everything and the poor have nothing, or a bleak future where AI has taken over as the rulers of the world, or a future where technology enhances the lives of everyone and ends all suffering.  I will always think back to living in a trailer court in the 70's, playing Atari football and wondering how technology could possibly get any cooler. 

pbj

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2018, 08:24:04 pm »
That was beautiful, dk.

 :cheers:

Howard_Casto

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2018, 01:19:53 am »
If it wasn't complete and utter b.s. it would have been. 

I admitted that it was very convincing....and....what's the point?  The argument we've been having is about graphical realism, like I've said fifty times in this thread already, but I guess it is falling upon deaf ears is that graphically impressive does NOT equate to realistic.  I AM impressed by it, but it's still fake looking.  It's also not a game, so how good it looks is completely and utterly irrelevant to the conversation.


What you guys don't seem to get is that the level of detail on an actual game (not tech demos and ect) has stagnated somewhat.  Every generation has had a dramatic leap in realism... until we get to 3d and since then every generation has been incrementally better.  Looking back at this generation to the original xbox is nowhere near as big a leap as looking back at the 2600 from the snes, where one actually looked like something and the other was a blocky dog-turd in comparison. 

Every generation we get longer draw distances, better textures and better shaders... that's it...it's only incrementally better.  I don't see that trend changing anytime soon.  It's not just graphics.... with the rare exception of maybe a few Nintendo titles, we are playing the same games we were last generation.... they've gotten a facelift and maybe the levels are a bit larger, but that's it.  That's a bad thing for gaming, and one of the reasons why I hate arguments like these.... better graphics are bad for gaming anyway as it allows developers to stagnate and use old ideas over and over.  Don't misunderstand, I like the shiny graphics as much as the next guy, but it's about the 5th or 6th most important thing I look for in a game.


And for the record, while dk is impressed by "advances" in video games, I'm impressed by other things... you know like in medicine and technology that actually saves lives or improves the quality of lives.  Advances in astrophysics that allow our great thinkers to understand our universe a bit better..... you know... unimportant stuff like that.  ;) 

Titchgamer

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2018, 06:26:07 am »
Why would we be talking about Astrophysics on here Howard??

LOL

Anywho...

I know you mostly play Nintendo but if you can not see the difference between the capabilities of say a PS3 and a PS4 you need your eyes testing!

Even games released close together, Say Battlefield 4 looked substantially better on the 4.

You are looking at the advancements wrong.
You cant compare the jump in GFX from a 2600 to SNES and then a XBox to a XB1.
Where are they meant to progress? 4D??

You say the changes are small but thatís whatís needed.
We need the little details, The individual hairs, The textures etc.

And those things take time and power.

The purpose of me starting this thread was to point out how far GFX have come in the last 40 years.

We have gone from as you say block turd to almost realistic (I said almost Howard we all know itís not perfect yet ;) )

Whoís to say in another 40 years it wont be photo realistic with us unable to tell the difference?
Hell another 40 years we may even have photo realistic VR!?

Maybe re-read my OP especially the bit about my elderly friend and have a think on that?

menace

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2018, 07:11:32 am »
Last week we took a family trip to Orlando and and ended up in Disney Springs (the Disney shopping area)  Anyways, they have a ride/exhibit/tour whatever called VOID.  Basically its a 4D VR experience where you are rebel troopers infiltrating a base disguised as storm troopers--I initially thought "here's a really fast way to burn $35 in 20 minutes"  After I was done--I would not have hesitated to do it again--I thought it was amazing! 

They kit you up with a full head visor and a vest so you can feel shots hit you and see in full 360, in an immersive environment--my only gripe is that for some reason the software doesn't render your legs!  The things around you in VR actually have a real life analog so when you reach out to touch a droid or a railing--its actually there.  The story takes you through a few areas and you have to solve minor puzzles while being shot at by storm troopers

My kids needless to say loved it (and incidentally their storm trooper avatars are the same size as they are so it's kind of funny).  I can honestly say that the last time I was blown away by CGI was the first Jurassic park--but this did it to me again..
its better to not post and be thought a fool, then to whip out your keyboard and remove all doubt...

dkersten

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2018, 10:51:32 am »
I've been fooled plenty of times by CGI, at least in movies.  I can't be fooled in a video game because I know it is 100% CGI.  You can't be fooled by something you already know is not real, at least not in this context.  I can see a point in the future where VR will start to fool your brain.  You don't believe it is real consciously, but subconsciously your mind tends to not know the difference.  When you watch a friend trying out VR and after 20 minutes he goes to lean on a table that isn't there, you understand that. 

But in film, you don't always know, and even if you suspect it is easy to let yourself forget and assume it is true film you are watching, and not CGI.  I would put money on it that there are movies even Howard has seen where he didn't know something was CGI. 

pbj

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2018, 12:06:04 pm »
If you come to a video game forum to have discussions about science and medicine, you're gonna have a bad time.


Titchgamer

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Re: Graphical realism? Whats your thoughts?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2018, 12:10:41 pm »
Last week we took a family trip to Orlando and and ended up in Disney Springs (the Disney shopping area)  Anyways, they have a ride/exhibit/tour whatever called VOID.  Basically its a 4D VR experience where you are rebel troopers infiltrating a base disguised as storm troopers--I initially thought "here's a really fast way to burn $35 in 20 minutes"  After I was done--I would not have hesitated to do it again--I thought it was amazing! 

They kit you up with a full head visor and a vest so you can feel shots hit you and see in full 360, in an immersive environment--my only gripe is that for some reason the software doesn't render your legs!  The things around you in VR actually have a real life analog so when you reach out to touch a droid or a railing--its actually there.  The story takes you through a few areas and you have to solve minor puzzles while being shot at by storm troopers

My kids needless to say loved it (and incidentally their storm trooper avatars are the same size as they are so it's kind of funny).  I can honestly say that the last time I was blown away by CGI was the first Jurassic park--but this did it to me again..

Sounds impressive!!

  
 

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