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Author Topic: [6/29/19]*Alpha w/ Optical Support*-Major League SkeeBall -- SkeeBall Controller  (Read 19859 times)

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Gumpyme2

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Game Idea

ď$krillaĒ

First to 1,000 points wins
A gutter moves your score to zero.
Points accumulate for your turn until you hit enter, then they are ďbankedĒ and itís the next players turn.  If you score a 10, you get zero points for that round and itís the next players turn.

4 player.

You bet $5 a round.  If you finish at zero points, you pay an additional $5 to the winner.  Maybe keep a running total of how much people owe and have won?

Gumpyme2

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You can only win after you score over 1000.  Score exactly and you go to zero.  Everyone gets another round to try and equal or better your score.  If they do, then everyone gets a chance to beat them. This can really extend the game play and be fun. (This is a dice game I got the idea from).

nipsmg

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This is kinda like Zap, except you drive yourself to 0 and not your teammate. Interesting.

BTW..  in case you didnít know,both 310 and 320 ZAP can be played as 3XX/5XX/7XX/9XX by hitting left/right after launching the game before starting it. 

920 zap gets really fun when someone has like 750 and you zap their ass to 0 :)

djb_rh

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I've got Skee Ball Too with a bad display and in my hunt for one of those someone asked if had heard of this project and pointed me here.  I had not, and here I am.

Tbh, I would have been happy to find this even if I had a fully working machine because this looks a LOT better.  Pretty sure I can figure out how to make this happen.  As I get started planning, a question...any reason why an old J-Pac that doesn't have USB built in wouldn't work fine with a USB to PS2 adapter?  I know bothering to make this JAMMA is kind of stupid, but I have J-Pac's sitting around unused along with JAMMA harnesses, so assuming there's no compatibility issues that would be cheaper.  But I'm not above buying an IPac2 if that makes a lot more sense, too.


--Donnie

nipsmg

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I'd ask Andy from ultimarc-- just email him.. he's pretty responsive.   The old iPac 2's had PS2 connectors but supported USB.  I don't believe those PS/2 -> USB adapters universally worked unless the board/keyboard they were being used on supported them, but I don't have enough knowledge of it.

You are going to need the following inputs:

Pockets
  • Left 100
  • Right 100
  • 50
  • 40
  • 30
  • 20
  • 10
  • Ball Drain

Controls
  • Up/ Game Mode +
  • Down / Game Mode -
  • Left / Player Count -
  • Right / Player Count +
  • Start/Select
  • Back/Exit
  • Info


djb_rh

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Thanks for the info above.

Turns out I am dumb.  All J-Pacs *have* USB.  I saw two mini-DIN connectors and wrongly just assumed one was keyboard and one was mouse (on the assumption that they'd use "mouse" support for spinners and trackballs).  Turns out one is PS-2 keyboard and the other is....USB.  And they sell a mini-DIN to USB cable separately that I didn't know about because back when I was doing these everything had keyboard ports so you just used a straight mini-DIN cable.

So I've ordered the proper USB cable from Ultimarc for $6.  And you were right, Andy was pretty fast at returning email about my question.  The J-Pac itself is actually labeled, too, that one port is USB and the other PS-2, I just didn't even look that close. I looked for a USB-looking port and seeing none assumed it was pre-USB.


--Donnie

nipsmg

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Status and Musings

Since the optical update I've been kind of frozen.  My main focus has been attempting to get this to run on an SBC.  The biggest issue I had with MonoGame is that there is only video support on Windows, so I had to do some crazy crap to get the animations in bowling to work:
  • convert to low frame rate
  • create one big image with each frame in a part of a grid
  • then lock the timing of the images to playback in-step with the audio

See here:



Also, monogame does not want to play nice with OpenGLES on the Rpi 3b+.  I've really only been successful with this running on Windows.  I REALLY, REALLY want to get this running on a cheap SBC running on Linux so I can make conversion kits as cheap as possible.

As such, I'm thinking of migrating this code from MonoGame to FNA.  This conversion should be RELATIVELY straight forward, as they are both implementations of XNA, and I'm not doing anything really crazy in MonoGame that wouldn't convert over.  This will likely take me a little time given my current workload.

The nice things about this is that if I can convert to FNA, I should get the following:

  • Support for cheap single board computers (RPi, ODroid Xu4)
  • Support for Video!!!!!
  • True, compile once run anywhere code for Linux, MacOSX, and Windows

Once I get this done, I'll need some more help testing.  If it looks good, my next step will be LED controller support.


Stay tuned!

nipsmg

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HUGE Idea.

Another quick "revelation" today around controls.

I've been obsessing for so long over the best way to create a control panel with pushbuttons and LEDs and stuff that I overlooked a really, really easy way to add controls to this:

An iPad mini or a cheap Android tablet on a mount.  It would be pretty easy to create a really nice, interactive interface in app form that could be used to wirelessly control the interface of the game and provide feedback, etc.

Instead of attempting to jam buttons into the rail, or come up with some crude control scheme, you get something like this:



I hvae no idea why I didnt' think of this earlier, but it makes it WAY, WAY, WAY easier to implement and to swap out on a machine.

You can get some CRAZY cheap android tablets that don't do too much.. BUT THAT'S THE POINT:
https://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9siv07r2mt8398
https://www.amazon.com/RCA-RCT6873W42-Resolution-Quad-Core-Marshmallow/dp/B01MRST6L4/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=android+tablet&qid=1570035084&s=gateway&sr=8-4

Thoughts?

djb_rh

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I like it, but if you do that then you restrict your device to home use only.  Which may be fine, but if you don't HAVE to, then why?  But then again, maybe the likelihood of anyone wanting to operate a converted one is so low as to be a non-issue.  Just a thought.

I also don't *love* the idea of a mount like that since it creates a pretty large amount of required extra space beside the entire machine (ie. you can't put it up against a wall).  But I can't think of a better way, either.  Hmm.


--Donnie

nipsmg

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there is no way to operate this in any way other than home use, and I have no plans to support it, unless I got some kind of financial backing to make it worthwhile.  it's meant for home use only.   Also, there's doesn't have to be a pole, I was actually thinking originally of a flat steel bar to use as the riser - not sure yet.

The other option is to make a mount that is a steel U channel that would fit over the rail and/or clamp to it and the pole would rise up from that. 

Just some ideas.

Also, the idea would be for the mount to be able to go on either side, so putting it up against a wall shouldn't be a huge deal, unless you're shoving this machine into a 13x4 cutout made specifically for a skeeball machine.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 04:30:59 pm by nipsmg »

Howard_Casto

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Here's another idea since you are going into the tablet area of things... why not just have it controlled via a voice assistant?  There are skills that let me control my xbox in alexa and google and they both work petty well for basic control.  I haven't looked and their SDKs though so I don't have a clue how difficult that would be. 

nipsmg

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I mean I guess you could, but i could see that being pretty unintuitive for anyone other than the owner, unless you knew all of the commands. 

I'm just trying to figure out a good way make a control panel that doesn't look like crap, as my controls are still in the top of an old plastic bucket:



And finding buttons and leds and everything else that will look good and building a control panel you don't have to get back strain using from bending over seems to be an issue, so why not use any widely available touchscreen that runs an intuitive, responsive, beautiful interface that can "light up" and give feedback, without having to make it mechanical?

djb_rh

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Yeah, the "not bending over" part of this seems like a huge win.  I could do a pretty cool control panel with the laser cutter that could integrate into the side rail, but like you said, it would be low enough to be very annoying.

I always like the *idea* of voice control, but in reality I've never actually liked doing it.

Tablet idea is growing on me. I generally prefer iOS, but I think you want a dedicated tablet for this and the cost of the Android seems to make that a no-brainer. 


--Donnie

nipsmg

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Yeah, I could write the app in Xamarin so I could use 99% of the same code and release it on Android and iOS at the same time.

I actually think that I'm going to try this BEFORE doing the LED support.  I think I'm set on converting this to FNA -- I want video support, so I think that's my roadmap:

  • Convert from MonoGame to FNA
  • Test and validate on various cheap single board computers
  • Write tablet/phone app and write support for network control of Skeeball app
  • LED Controller Support

stangx

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I love this idea. I have iPad and android devices I bearly ever use. Joystick gets in the way sometimes. Looking forward to this release. Side note Riskee still has the last ball crash issue when you hit the 40. Will only reward you with extra balls if landed on or a score. If landing on bomb it will crash when you throw the ball including hitting the 100.  Like how this has evolved. Keep up the great work

nipsmg

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stangx:

Yeah, I found the issue where this occurs.   I need to whiteboard the game states out so I can fix it.  I think it just begs the question.. what should happen if the LAST ball is a 40.  I need to separate out events in the "countdown" state from events in the rest of the game.

MotoGP

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Yeah, I could write the app in Xamarin so I could use 99% of the same code and release it on Android and iOS at the same time.

I actually think that I'm going to try this BEFORE doing the LED support.  I think I'm set on converting this to FNA -- I want video support, so I think that's my roadmap:

  • Convert from MonoGame to FNA
  • Test and validate on various cheap single board computers
  • Write tablet/phone app and write support for network control of Skeeball app
  • LED Controller Support

Why not write in Python.  Run on a RPi 3 or 4.  In Raspbian you could use the web server to host pages powered by the Python.  This way you just need some simple python files to create the displayed pages to control the games.  Store the settings, high scores etc in xml files?  The Rpi should have enough I/O for all of the switches.  This is the approach I was looking taking with my own similar project.  The Rpi is cheap enough, it can control relays easily for lights, solenoid etc.

What are you creating your graphics in?

nipsmg

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Mostly because my background is in .NET, and I already knew the Microsoft.XNA framework from other projects I've done.  Given my limited free time, it made the most sense to write in something I knew and was familiar with so I could actually get something working in a reasonable amount of time.

It appears that the FNA framework more easily works on a rPI 3b+ than MonoGame for some reason, so I'm going to try that out. (they are re-implementations of Microsoft.Xna).



nickels

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This is great, Iíve been away from this forum for a bit. I have created a bunch of skeeball games in Flash for mine. The software is public, feel free to borrow ideas from it. Mine also integrates custom lighting as well for all the holes.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AnDLo-WVE7jAjlm89vejhHSJFDNn?e=mhv9lm

I have games such as:
Skee Wars - higher scoring skeeball Star Wars themed with a special ball at the end worth more. Supports up 4 players.
Time Bomb - beta where you have to hit holes in specific combinations to defuse a bomb
The Chase - Simpsonís themed endless runner. Score points at a fast pace to run. Stay ahead of Homer!
And more

Enjoy! Good luck on your project :)
D'oh!

stangx

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there is no way to operate this in any way other than home use, and I have no plans to support it, unless I got some kind of financial backing to make it worthwhile.  it's meant for home use only.   Also, there's doesn't have to be a pole, I was actually thinking originally of a flat steel bar to use as the riser - not sure yet.

The other option is to make a mount that is a steel U channel that would fit over the rail and/or clamp to it and the pole would rise up from that. 

Just some ideas.

Also, the idea would be for the mount to be able to go on either side, so putting it up against a wall shouldn't be a huge deal, unless you're shoving this machine into a 13x4 cutout made specifically for a skeeball machine.
I picked up a mount on amazon for cheap. It swivels and moves to whatever position you choose or side of lane you like best. I will test it all out when you get time to put the software together. The kids and their friends love to play skeeball and I believe the implementation of a tablet will make it more user-friendly. Everyone has used a tablet and it's out of the way of throwing or grabbing a ball. Not to mention an updated look to an old machine. Heres a pic. Not mounted yet, as I am still looking for the best place to mount permanently. :cheers:

nipsmg

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Stangx:
Do you have a URL for that mount?

stangx

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search Pyle-Home PSPAD05  on Amazon. I got mine as an amazon warehouse deal for 8 dollars. Also, were you just thinking about using an app like joytokey for controls or another similar program? Or are you going to try and create your own for the game?

Gumpyme2

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I just did this for my controls.  The buttons light up when the power is on.

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I just did this for my controls.
Are you planning on covering that mounting plate?

If you like, there's parametric OpenSCAD code here for a 3d-printable mounting plate cover.

The default values should work for that joystick plate. (40x84mm mount pattern)


Scott

Gumpyme2

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Cool thanks.  I donít have plans cover it now, kids like looking down in there for some reason.  : )

Here is the parts list I used thanks to this thread.  We love playing it!


https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1AVGSWTSIEGBQ?ref_=wl_share


(Always happy to help test too)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 05:47:11 pm by Gumpyme2 »

funbobby

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Here is the parts list I used thanks to this thread.  We love playing it!


Hey Gumpyme2!  Just curious what your opinions are on that PC Stick now that you've had a little time with it.  You still think its a good way to go?

Gumpyme2

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Yes the arcade stick works great.  Sometimes you hit it when playing, but it doesnít interrupt game play.  Used JoyToKey to code the inputs (very easy).  I had it and the buttons left over from a 1Up build.
My only struggle was having JoyToKey come up when the CPU comes on.

Fixed that with this tip:
https://joytokey.net/en/posts/how-to-auto-startup/

I know how I want to do my gutter ball (physical switch), thatís all I have left!

Jherre6

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 :afro:

Man this is one of the neatest things I saw.

Sorry if I missed it, but are people with classic Model H carnival models (no 100s) out of luck? It would be amazing to have a setup for different models.

Thanks for all the work on this!!!

Jherre6

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I just found your software and post Monday and i have already ordered everything to build one.  I have 3 skeeballs in the basement now and it is the most played game we have.  I am curious if you have seen the software in a beerball.  It has a 3 ball rotation that allows each person to throw three balls and then it is the next players turn.  It scores just like traditional skee ball but makes it a lot of fun because you can catch up on the other people if you had a bad round.  Also this is a 4 player game on beerball but quite often we have more that 4 that want to play.  If you could make it an 8 player game that would be awesome.  I would even be willing to donate some money toward the programming time.  I am going to build your software into a 13 foot lane from the 90's.  i will post some pictures as i make progress.  One of my current machines is the guts from a beerball that i put into a 13 foot lane.  came out awesome.

OmahaPaul

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where do i find the link to download the most current version of the software.  i am new to the arcade forum and don't know where to look.

thanks

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to post 187.  If you don't have 100 holes you could easily cut them in and order 100 circles.  Baytek has new ones in black for beerball at 60.00 each.  You are putting in new switches and software so easily could add two more to your board.

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But the problem is the ball ramps. The non 100s do not have side ramps for the balls.

Thanks for the reply!

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I just found your software and post Monday and i have already ordered everything to build one.  I have 3 skeeballs in the basement now and it is the most played game we have.  I am curious if you have seen the software in a beerball.  It has a 3 ball rotation that allows each person to throw three balls and then it is the next players turn.  It scores just like traditional skee ball but makes it a lot of fun because you can catch up on the other people if you had a bad round.  Also this is a 4 player game on beerball but quite often we have more that 4 that want to play.  If you could make it an 8 player game that would be awesome.  I would even be willing to donate some money toward the programming time.  I am going to build your software into a 13 foot lane from the 90's.  i will post some pictures as i make progress.  One of my current machines is the guts from a beerball that i put into a 13 foot lane.  came out awesome.

I can probably implement that.  There are some 4 player versions of standard skeeball that work in this way, I believe there's a video on this thread someone posted about it.  Send me a private message and lets talk about the gameplay -   Also, donations are ALWAYS appreciated :)

----------------------

Let me know if I can help with your build or configuration.





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Also, donations are ALWAYS appreciated :)


Sorry if I missed it, but have you posted a PayPal address?  I will absolutely contribute.

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I just purchased a project from OmahaPaul. Good dude!! Iím tearing down a 13 ft skeeball to redo and add this software to it. Nipsmg, if you have a PayPal or other type of account I will surely contribute. Would be interested in a 8 player feature if possible.

nipsmg

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For Donations:

https://paypal.me/mgerety

Every little bit is appreciated.  Thanks guys!

nipsmg

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Hey Guys,

So, I've gotten some very generous donations from two members here that wanted an (up to) 8 player variant.  Their interface example was BeerBall.  I would like to eventually update the interface to be able to score in that way (and I have some ideas of how to do this).  However, for the time being, I implemented an (up to 8 player) classic skeeball variant where each player alternates every 3 balls.

For now, it's tentatively called Skee8.

Menu

Ingame


Gameplay Video


This is a functional game using the "DART GAME* sound effects, for now.

What I'd like to add:
  • Bowling Style Scoring (see score for each "frame")
  • Countdown clock per player
  • Tie-breakers
  • Updated sound and graphics
  • Animated winner indicators

However, this is usable for now.  I'll package it up sometime today or tomorrow.


nipsmg

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Potential future design for Skee8 --  which is now 8-shot, and I'm sure the name will change another few times as well.


Dakotajp

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Nipsmg, You Da Man!! Thanks and canít wait for different graphics.

nipsmg

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  • ROONEY!! ERRGH!!
    • Arcadia
I did some rearranging.  I think I like this layout better.

Player 1-4 active:


Player 5-8 active:


Thoughts?