Coin Mechs - Multiple credits

[acejas]

Hi guys

My scenario is as follows:

I have 2 simple coin mechs and microswitchs that are connected to an Ipac and work fine.
One coin mech takes 20c coins the other $1

I want to know how to (if possible) make the $1 coin mech generate say 5 credits (ie like physically making the trip wire trigger 5 times)

I know the electronic coin mechs such as Mars is capable of it but   I want to be able to do it with what I have.

Can I do it through teh IPAC Mame or mamewah?

Ive searched the boards and havent come up with anything
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated

Cheers
acejas

[SirPoonga]

I'd say the only way you could do it is create a circuit that does it.  Not sure how to create the circuit.  I'm sure it'd require an IC chip or a 555 timer.

[acejas]

Thanks Sirpoonga

Anyone put me in that direction of creating a circuit? Im handy with a soldering iron etc

cheers

[NoOne=NBA=]

If all you are wanting to do is give extra credits for a $1 coin entry, alot of the games will let you modify the credits/coin if the cabinet originally supported multiple coin mechs.

That feature is not available on alot of the older games with multiple mechs because they were all set to take the same coin, but alot of the more recent ones had $1 coin mechs in the center.

[crashwg]

I'm not too familiar with the I-Pac, but is there a way to program macros with it?  If there is you could wire them up seperately and have the dolar mech signal the macro to start!

[TalkingOctopus]

Perhaps this is what you are looking for:

http://www.happcontrols.com/coindoors/42811000.htm

[acejas]

If all you are wanting to do is give extra credits for a $1 coin entry, alot of the games will let you modify the credits/coin if the cabinet originally supported multiple coin mechs.

That feature is not available on alot of the older games with multiple mechs because they were all set to take the same coin, but alot of the more recent ones had $1 coin mechs in the center.

Thanks but no good I want it for all games

I'm not too familiar with the I-Pac, but is there a way to program macros with it?  If there is you could wire them up seperately and have the dolar mech signal the macro to start!

Thanks But wont work becuase the macro programming you mention is only for programming buttons


Talking Octopus: Maybe this might work with my arcade setup but maybe an electronic setup is needed. I wont find out becuase the cost would be too prohibitive ($AU100 or including postage) and I was just wondering if there was something simple

Cheers for all your replies  

Ill keep looking and maybe try and build a circuit

[wpcmame]

If you use advancemame you can add the following script in advmame.rc

:script_coin2 delay(1000); repeat(4) { simulate_event(coin1,100); delay(200); }

What happens here is that when advmame detects that you have inserted a coin in slot2 it will automatically add 4 coins to slot1.

[Minwah]

Many coin mechs (eg Mars) used in the UK do not use microswitches, and can do exactly what you speak of using some kind of circuitry...usually something like 30p=1 play, 50p=2 plays,

[paigeoliver]

Most major coin op manufacturers sell a coin multiplier board. They aren't supposed to be very expensive and should work with any application.

Happ controls should have them. As should Wico and others. Heck, your local distributor probably has them in stock.

[Druin]

I can do it...let me think about it - I'll try to come up with something non-microcontroller based so exact parts can be bought and no programming hassles.

[Druin]

Ok 20 seconds later I have the general concept in mind so I'll post my intention in case someone else may want to work on it too.

You look through available CMOS and TTL chips (4000 series and 7400 series) either on a manufacturer website (like www.fairchildsemi.com  or  www.ti.com), or on a supplier website where you know you can obtain the parts (digikey, all electronics, Jameco.....)

Look for chips that are counters with a reset pin....

This way suppose you power on the circuit and it's in reset with a count value of 0, and you start increasing the count, you have a decoder circuit added on that waits for a certain number...and when that number is reached, it strikes the reset pin and the counter goes back to 0.

Now comes the funky stuff....and I'm just talking off the top of my head, this may be very elaborate beyond necessity, overkill..but it's the concept I'm conveying...

Suppose you have an oscillator circuit (555 timer or whatever) that is always running, nothing fancy about it...and running at a rate of a few pulses per second or even slower, however fast you want credits to appear. This is just sitting there clocking all the time you have power on.

Take the output of this and feed it into something like an AND gate input....and keep the other AND gate input set aside as an enable signal.....the output of the AND gate would feed to the clock input of that counter chip....as well as to the Keyboard encoder coin input...

Now whenever the AND gate enable input is high....the oscillator pulses will pass through the AND gate and allow the counter to receive a clock and it will start counting up.

I think it would be nice to maybe use a flip flop as the AND gate enable input.  Take the output of a flip flop and send it to the AND enable.  The input to the flip flop maybe should be connected to the coin switch.....then when you drop a quarter, the flip flop will latch this signal to the output, which enables the AND gate and allows the counter to start clocking.....keep in mind the RESET pin on the flip flop....

Now the decoder circuit...there may be a fancy decoder chip that can do this but just thinking with logic gates alone....figure out how many credits you want to generate...say it's 4....that means you want the counter to count up from 0 to 4  (keep in mind that the counter's clock is also fed to the Keyboard coin input so those 4 pulses are also inserting the coins)...and when you reach 4 deposits, you want something to detect this and shut off the AND gate (reset that flip flop)....

So 4 is   100 in binary....figure out a network of logic gates that will detect 100 and produce a proper output high or low, whatever will assert the flip flop reset...



NOW what should happen is (aside from minor fixing up of hardware bugs and concepts).....you power on....by default the flip flop output should be low to shut off the AND gate that pipes the oscillator to the keyboard and the counter. Oscillator is constantly running but going nowhere.  You drop in a coin, the flip flop toggles its output and holds it, the AND gate passes the oscillator on, credits start flying into IPac, and a counter starts counting.  When it reaches 4, the flip flop is reset, shuts off, turns off the AND gate, and the oscillator is going nowhere again, you have 4 credits.  This counter decoder circuit should reset the counter and the flip flop so the counter is back at 0.

I just remembered there are chips that can detect a certain input binary pattern and set an output when it matches...I don't remember what they are called though.... they usually are labeled as P and Q inputs, you use one set of inputs to manually set a binary value, then whenever those (a comparator maybe) match the other inputs, it goes BING on the output....   So P inputs connect to the counter bits, Q inputs are tied to binary 100, and when the counter reaches 4, you get a high or low whichever output.  No messy logic gates.  It should be easy enough to find some chip numbers if anyone is interested in proceeding with this.

[acejas]

WOW thanks for the time taken for the message. It definitely gives me something to look at and think about. Ill let you know how I go (could be ages hahaha)

Cheers
acejas

[Druin]

Some part numbers....chosen based on what Digikey has to offer in DIP package (the kind we can solder by  hand, no surface mount).  The letters in between the numeric areas of the part number (eg ACT, AC) may vary, or extra letter prefixes/suffixs depending on manufacturer or type of logic (cmos, ttl).  I don't think there's an issue mixing and matching any combinations in something like this.

The P=Q comparator for decoding the counter:
74ACT521, 74ACT520, 74HC688  
not sure of the differences, probably irrelevant

The counter:
74AC161   has asyncronous reset

D type Flip Flop:
74AC174

AND gate:
74AC08

Inverter gate (to patch any logic levels):
74AC14    has schmitt trigger inputs, good for minor filtering of noisy inputs

Oscillator can be almost anything.  Not the biggest thing to worry about, leave for last. Lots of circuits on the internet.

Maybe I'll see if I can draw up a block diagram of some of this stuff. I don't want to spoil the fun for the exact circuit for anyone wanting to feel the accomplishment...plus my schematic entry stuff isn't installed plus I'm lazy...

[acejas]

Mate

Id be stoked (aussie slang for happy) if you coudl do something like that. Dont worry, you wouldnt be spoiling my fun  

All this is over my head a bit but ill definitely look into it and fire you some questions no doubt  

Thanks again
acejas

[Druin]

Here is a sketch of the concept I'm proposing - already many details come to mind but again it's just rough thought...I've left out minor details like an inverter maybe needed here and there, pull up or pull down resistors, maybe an R-C filter for noise/bounce handling on inputs...but that's rubbish.   If I can't be found around here for a reply, come find an email link at http://connect.to/rotary

[novyan]

wow!

Is exactly what I've been looking for
But as a beginner in electronic, a schematic would be much usefull though

O, what about the opposite case, like insert 4 coin gives 1 credit?

Thanks a lot.

[Trimoor]

What you want can be done with just two chips; a 555 and a 4017 decade counter.
The 555 clocks the decade counter continuously.

The DC counts up until it reaches 5, which is connected to the enable pin.  This freezes the counted until reset is pulled low by the microswitch.  The DC then pulses sequentially on 1-4, stopping on 5 again.  Just tie all four outputs together with some diodes.

Here is the 4017:


Can you figure out a schematic from that? Or shall I make one for you?

Edit: the opposite can be achieved as well.  Use the microswitch as the clock input for the 4017, then attach the KB input to output 4.

[novyan]

What you want can be done with just two chips; a 555 and a 4017 decade counter.
The 555 clocks the decade counter continuously.

O That's superb!

Can you figure out a schematic from that? Or shall I make one for you?

Edit: the opposite can be achieved as well.  Use the microswitch as the clock input for the 4017, then attach the KB input to output 4.

I am so excited now the schematic would fill my empty barin.  Yes, the schematic please.

Thank you so very much!

[Trimoor]

Here's a circuit, but I don't know how good it will be.
I don't know if the outputs will have a suitible low output. (it might need capacitors)
You'll have to find your own 555 circuit.  I can't figure out how to design a good one. (I should...)

The thing is so simple that you just build it and I could help you troubleshoot.
You don't even need a 555 for testing.

Oh, and why won't the macro function work?  Seems like it would work.

[novyan]

Thank you trimoor,

Now I found what I've been looking
 
Looks good and simple, will try that!

Is like this right http://members.shaw.ca/roma/thirty-four.html

Now I want something more What do I need if I want to add 1 digit display to it?

Thanks a lot.

[Popcorrin]

I'm kind of curious why someone would want to go thru all the trouble for this?  Seems pretty elaborate for a mame cab.  Occasionally on mine I will use the coin door but usually just to show someone it works.

[Thenasty]

So just in case coins are inserted on the Menu so no ones will complain about loosing the coins  it will be on the diplat mark "Credits"
soon maybe this will be ask next, How can I subract 1 credit from the display when the button is pushed  (after a game is loaded of course, and the button is dis-abled if it still in the Menu) 
Things that makes you go hhhhmmmmmm  ! ! !

[Trimoor]

Here's the resource on the 4017 that I used:
http://www.doctronics.co.uk/4017.htm

I have no idea what you mean by the display.  What would it be for?
There are several 7-segment LED drivers like 4511, but at this point it might be easier to just use a microcontroller.

[Gunstar Hero]

Sounds like he's thinking of a Neo Geo type setup... where you have the 1p Credits and 2p Credits LED's and you can select games with the credit in "stasis" until you hit the game you want, yes?

[novyan]

Trimoor,

Thanks a lot, it's been a great help!

Yes is exactly that 4511 what I'm looking for too and I think I can figure out the rest.  For now I'm gonna have fun with the 4017

Oops I think I'm hacking somebody else thread here sorry acejas, and thanks to you too acejas

once again thanks Trimoor, I'm gonna go get the part now