Angled joysticks.... just misunderstood?

[Vigo]

Can I propose that the Anglicans and Non-Anglicans get together and simply ignore any time someone posts this topic for discussion, or at least point them to an existing thread? Otherwise it's the same old thing.

[PL1]

the control panel on the cabinet that I've been working on has a surface that is angled at about 13 degrees.  Then I've got an Ultimarc Front-Mounted Restrictor Kit mounted underneath that surface at the same angle.  Does that make the joystick angled? 

The red joystick below is what everyone is referring to when they use the term "angled".

(From the FAQ.)


Scott

[DeLuSioNal29]

@ delusional: even though those mounts are angled, I believe the sticks that were in that machine were still straight due to them being counter angled.

Wow, you're right.  I never knew that.  I'm assuming that their special MCA brand joysticks had additional holes to compensate for the angle? (see pic).  Either way, it just proves having straight joysticks is preferred, if they went through all that trouble to correct them.  (I know Malenko needed those special joysticks for his Bad Dudes restore.)

DeLuSioNaL29

[JoeStrout]

Hey, I'll jump in to say that as a complete noob now in the planning stages for a 4-player (Gauntlet/TMNT/Simpsons/Rampage) cabinet, this thread was actually quite useful.

It's been a few years since I've had the opportunity to play any of those in person (on an original machine).  But I had it in my mind that the whole control panel for the side players was rotated.

This thread inspired me to go look more closely at the Gauntlet II control panel layout:


It turns out that the joysticks are not rotated (you can tell by the convenient "Up" markers on the control panel), even though the overall layout (position of buttons relative to joystick) is.

So that's what I'm going to do, too... thanks for everyone here for making me think about it before getting too far in my design!

[DietCoke]

the control panel on the cabinet that I've been working on has a surface that is angled at about 13 degrees.  Then I've got an Ultimarc Front-Mounted Restrictor Kit mounted underneath that surface at the same angle.  Does that make the joystick angled? 

The red joystick below is what everyone is referring to when they use the term "angled".

(From the FAQ.)

Scott

Scott, thanks for the info!

[yotsuya]

Hey, I'll jump in to say that as a complete noob now in the planning stages for a 4-player (Gauntlet/TMNT/Simpsons/Rampage) cabinet, this thread was actually quite useful.

It's been a few years since I've had the opportunity to play any of those in person (on an original machine).  But I had it in my mind that the whole control panel for the side players was rotated.

This thread inspired me to go look more closely at the Gauntlet II control panel layout:


It turns out that the joysticks are not rotated (you can tell by the convenient "Up" markers on the control panel), even though the overall layout (position of buttons relative to joystick) is.

So that's what I'm going to do, too... thanks for everyone here for making me think about it before getting too far in my design!

Kudos to you, brother! 

[RandyT]

Anyone considering using angled joysticks should think about this:

1)  Imagine driving a car, built so that the driver sits in the passenger seat, and the steering column is angled over from where it normally exits the dash.

This is very much the same type of situation.  Sure, you could probably train yourself to drive like this (albeit not very safely) and it would take some time to learn.  But given the option, virtually everyone would choose to have the direction of the turn be directly relative to the front of the vehicle.

2)  Set up Q*Bert so that it uses only one switch per direction on a digital stick.  This will rotate the control scheme 45 degrees.  Now try playing it, and compare the experience to the proper configuration.  Do this once, and you will understand immediately how evil angled joysticks are.

[Malenko]

  (I know Malenko needed those special joysticks for his Bad Dudes restore.)

Ugh, yeah, because of those sticks I took a loss selling the cab. CP made no sense.

[j.fitzenr]

1)  Imagine driving a car, built so that the driver sits in the passenger seat, and the steering column is angled over from where it normally exits the dash.

This is very much the same type of situation.  Sure, you could probably train yourself to drive like this (albeit not very safely) and it would take some time to learn.  But given the option, virtually everyone would choose to have the direction of the turn be directly relative to the front of the vehicle.

I'd be so awesome at driving that car, people would see me, and be like, "look how awesome he is at driving that car."  And then they'd give me high fives. 

Honestly I really want to try angled sticks now.  I totally believe and take everybody's word for them being awful, but damn, if it doesn't make me curious.  What if my brain is weird and having up be relative to how I'm standing makes more sense for me?  What then?  Do I have brain damage, or am I a superhero?  Is it related to the fact that I literally cannot play 3d games without an inverted Y Axis?  Does that mean I should be a pilot?  Should I make sure my plane's yoke is angled at 45 degrees from the front of the aircraft?  ---gosh-darn--- YOU ANGLED JOYSTICKS YOU'VE HURT MY BRAIN

[yotsuya]

You'll do it,  you'll train yourself to use them (or convince yourself that you did), you'll come on here and say "They're not that bad", we'll tell you you're wrong, rinse and repeat.

[DietCoke]

I'll be the noob here - wait, I already am - the control panel on the cabinet that I've been working on has a surface that is angled at about 13 degrees.  Then I've got an Ultimarc Front-Mounted Restrictor Kit mounted underneath that surface at the same angle.  Does that make the joystick angled? 

And Yots... I'm hurt.

Why you hurt, bro?

This is why I have a mancrush on you.

I thought we had something special.  I feel so... used.   

[Vigo]

Anyone considering using angled joysticks should think about this:

1)  Imagine driving a car, built so that the driver sits in the passenger seat, and the steering column is angled over from where it normally exits the dash.

This is very much the same type of situation.  Sure, you could probably train yourself to drive like this (albeit not very safely) and it would take some time to learn.  But given the option, virtually everyone would choose to have the direction of the turn be directly relative to the front of the vehicle.

I'm just gonna say that this is a bad analogy. Why? Because in your wacky racer, your body isn't directly aligned with the steering wheel, only with the windshield. The point of angled controls is to be straight on to the way the controls are facing.

How about this for an analogy to think through. You are sulu controlling the helm on the enterprise. Kirk hates that you are in front of him when he is doing his best acting. He makes you scootch your nav chair over to the side by uhura and fly from there. Do you face your nav chair to the view screen at an angle and hope you can fly straight or face the dirty side wall straight on and crank your neck over to try to get a glimpse of the poorly costumed aliens gunning you down?

(I'll give you the answer. Both options suck balls. If you are p3 or p4, then you are nothing but scum that is fortunate enough to hang off the side of the machine to play a game among the real players. Might as well design a cab that caters to p1 and p2 and let those mooches just be thankful you paid for two extra joysticks.)

[RandyT]

I'm just gonna say that this is a bad analogy. Why? Because in your wacky racer, your body isn't directly aligned with the steering wheel...

Hey! It's my imaginary crapmobile, so assume that it is 

Anyone who has been to a fair has probably seen the the guy with the bicycle which turns the front wheel in the opposite direction of the handlebars.  He basically makes his living watching people fall down on it.  You often see the same guy riding around the fairgrounds on the thing at slow speeds, but put him at the top of a hill, with random stuff popping out in front of him, and he'll probably be missing more teeth before he gets to the bottom.

Under stressful circumstances, we tend to skip the learned translations and revert to intuition, until those translations become intuitive through the development of new neural pathways in the brain.  Learning to ride a motorcycle is a good example of where this is necessary.  Novice motorcyclists often get into accidents when something jumps out in front of them because they instinctively try to turn in the wrong direction (explanation.)  It's not until these motions become intuitive to the individual, that the driver will be ready for the potential hazards of the road.

The point is, the physical dynamics of some things require this kind of learning process, which cannot be easily avoided.  This is not the case with a simple joystick

[eds1275]

my next machine is going to have joystick so angled that p3 and p4 face p1 and 2! And I'll dominate the high score comps from my p3 joystick! The secret is out! ANGLED IS BETTER #ANGLEYOJOYSTICKS4LYFE

[Vigo]

The point is, the physical dynamics of some things require this kind of learning process, which cannot be easily avoided.  This is not the case with a simple joystick

You might be spot on there. Would explain why some of us don't quite experience having to re-adjust but others fail for quite a while. Some of us are probably just more adjusted prepared for the joystick mechanics, while those just relying on their basic instincts to play flunk out.