New Joystick - <insert name here>

[jimmer]

After spending a good year thinking about and designing various joysticks, it's time I got on with it and launched a product. But there are still some aspects to finalise and I'm pondering a Kickstarter to, well, kickstart the product with some pre-orders. So I thought I'd see what people here have to say first.

I realise that a month ago a grommet-centred leaf-switched stick would have been a lot more exciting, but that's just the way things go.

And if I add that it won't be any cheaper for US residents than the competition then there's a risk I'll lose all of your interest, so just to keep you listening:

############ FREE JOYSTICKS  #############

Anyone who makes a valuable contribution*, eg an idea that I use, or points out a flaw that I correct, or requests a feature that I incorporate, gets a free leaf-switched stick. The stick has no name yet, so there's a definite free stick opportunity.   

* As judged by me.  Just listing a load of joystick features in the hope that I adopt one of them doesn't qualify, but if you put a convincing case for some feature that I'm not considering then that would.



So here's the concept:

Choice of switch type: non-snap micro, leaf, optical (maybe snap-micro, maybe inductive or hall-effect later)

Swappable handles: Change the visible shaft and knob  (maybe without underside access)

Choice of mounting plate size/pattern: for if you are replacing an existing stick

Swappable restrictor gates (large variety): these will be screw on at first, later I'll look into a push on design.

This stick will allow you to change from a 30mm ball, 10mm above the panel with 2way restriction (Defender) to a 38mm ball, 25mm above the panel, with circle gate (Robotron) to a mid-height 35mm ball 4way diamond.


Manufacturing Method:

I will CNC the main body myself, this allows me to do whatever variations I want without dealing with suppliers. Everything else attaches to the main body.


Pricing:

Ballpark figures for UK market are $50 grey micro version, $60 leaf switches, $80 optical.
For the US market I don't know what to offer, maybe the optical base unit at $40 (just add Rollie Flash @ $30)


Give me your thoughts. 

Should I do a kickstarter?

Is this one product, or is each switch type a different joystick (and name) ?

My poor effort at naming so far has come up with: grommetstick grey, grommetstick leaf, and grommetstick flash

How desirable would above the panel stick change be? compared to having to put a screwdriver on the bottom end (note: gate change will require below panel access so you might be under there anyway)



Here's a pic of the grey version, it's smaller than a JLF but that wasn't a goal it just happened. The leaf version will necessarily be wider at the switches, but maybe less wide than you think 

[adder]

The stick has no name yet....

if the stick is going to be highly customizable, perhaps consider calling it something like:

evo-stick
mod-stik
joy-mod
trans-stick (as in 'transition')

or u could go all out with 'chameleon stick' 
chameleon definition:  "subject to quick or frequent change especially in appearance"

[yotsuya]

I'd need to see a video or two of it in action before I committed any $$$ to a Kickstarter.

[Louis Tully]

.

[opt2not]

The Jimmer.  DONE!

[Mitkraft]

The stick has no name yet....

transtick (as in 'transition')

I highly recommend you stay away from this name.  It's an entirely different "product" 

[Vigo]

Yeah, this joystick sounds like a good video of it in action would speak volumes. Billy Mays ]"but that's not all" kinda thing come to mind when you talk about the versatility of this joystick.

As for name, I would go against the grain and avoid adding the word "Stick" or "stik" at the end. Kinda is the "Cade" of joystick names now. I tried to think of something Grommet themed for a name, but all that comes to mind is Wallace, cheese and Techno-trousers. You can shorten grommetstick to GS and toss in something flashy with it. Like GS Commander. GS custom or GS Trannystick. 

Also, I think the question of mod lighting on these would be a highly demanded feature. If you could make it easy to light, it would be an awesome feature. Maybe offer hollow shafts, or if Nephasth doesn't object, maybe make an easy nephring style edge light plate for easy lighting of the base.

[yotsuya]

The "GS Throwback - Play Your Games Like It's 1985"

[Vigo]

The "GS Throwback - Play Your Games Like It's 1985"

Ooh! I am digging that!

[jimmer]

The "GS Throwback - Play Your Games Like It's 1985"

There's something about throwback that I like.  And combined with a tag line as well, an all round good effort.


How about some rubbery ideas?   

Rubber Joy 
Rubberised Tranny Knob
..... oh dear, these aren't working.

the Rubbery Switcheroo

[EMDB]

RetroStick 

[Le Chuck]

Holler when you figure out how to go from a round restrictor to a diamond restrictor from the top of the panel like a magstik only not sucky or can have it automated.   

[keilmillerjr]

LickStik

[jimmer]

Holler when you figure out how to go from a round restrictor to a diamond restrictor from the top of the panel like a magstik only not sucky or can have it automated.

There was a thread on that not long ago. 8way to 4way ie just 2 gates, is the quick hit for someone to design as it covers the majority of requirements.  I have some ideas, but may need to work with someone who knows software/servos so it works from the front end or Mame. Or it could just toggle from a button press.

Myself, I like different 8way patterns for different games, and I'll be offering those with this joystick and for other joysticks (LS32, JLF,JLW).

I've also got a Happ Super / Xarcade  leaf conversion mod which takes a multitude of restrictor gates, that'll be on sale soon when I've finalised the leaf design.  And a restrictor mod that uses the snap micros.

[deadmoney5]

Holler when you figure out how to go from a round restrictor to a diamond restrictor from the top of the panel like a magstik only not sucky or can have it automated.

this

[yotsuya]

The "GS Throwback - Play Your Games Like It's 1985"

There's something about throwback that I like.  And combined with a tag line as well, an all round good effort.


How about some rubbery ideas?   

Rubber Joy 
Rubberised Tranny Knob
..... oh dear, these aren't working.

the Rubbery Switcheroo

Give your product a name that will make people want it. You go to Burger King to order a Whopper, not a "Meat Patty on Bread with Onions".

"GS Throwback" evokes a callback to what made games great. Your eyes tell you it's a joystick. Your hands (assuming it works the way you say it does) prove to you that it feels different that what's out there. The gameplay proves that it's an innovative product. Give it a "Wow" name, not something that is basically shorthand for "Joystick With Rubber Parts".

Doing some channeling here. All I know about marketing I learned from:

[jimmer]

You are right. 

I think

But, 'jimmer's grommet leaf joystick' does get straight to the point. And my  thought is if you type Grommet Joystick into Google, then a product called jimmer's Grommet Joystick has a better chance of a good ranking.  But maybe tags, and links, and whatnot are all that's needed.

Probably ebay search is more important than google???

[yotsuya]

You are right. 

I think

But, 'jimmer's grommet leaf joystick' does get straight to the point. And my  thought is if you type Grommet Joystick into Google, then a product called jimmer's Grommet Joystick has a better chance of a good ranking.  But maybe tags, and links, and whatnot are all that's needed.

Probably ebay search is more important than google???

[yotsuya]

In all seriousness, go look at the names of the joysticks GroovyGameGear sells. THAT'S Marketing.

None of them are called "Randy's Awesome Leaf-Joysticks with Rad Balls on Top".

[deadmoney5]

Grom-Stik

 

[jimmer]

In all seriousness, go look at the names of the joysticks GroovyGameGear sells. THAT'S Marketing.

None of them are called "Randy's Awesome Leaf-Joysticks with Rad Balls on Top".

You should check out www.Randys_Arcade_Shop.com, sales of "Red ball top joystick" are through the roof.

But also in all seriousness. If you bring out a product that meets a market need, and give it a cool name, how important was the cool name in generating sales?  No-one sees the counter-factual sales figures for if it had a boring name.

Remember I came for opnions, including on a good name, so that implies I think a cool name has some value. Either that or it's a cheap trick to get people thinking about my joystick.

[ChanceKJ]

It would be nice, if possible to be able to light these with LED's from the base of the shaft like with the LEDs PA sells for Neph rings, or with built in Neph rings, or the little PA Tropical mood light LEDs I used for the stick on my FLYNN build. Lit ball tops look a little tacky IMO. and it would be nice to see some way to add LEDs as a drop in kit with an LED pack that isn't too specialty.

[ChanceKJ]

Oh and...

Next-Stic

SicStick

X-Joy

JoyStix

CtrlStick

The Leaf

LeafStik

AttackStick

ClassStic

[jimmer]

It would be nice, if possible to be able to light these with LED's from the base of the shaft like with the LEDs PA sells for Neph rings, or with built in Neph rings, or the little PA Tropical mood light LEDs I used for the stick on my FLYNN build. Lit ball tops look a little tacky IMO. and it would be nice to see some way to add LEDs as a drop in kit with an LED pack that isn't too specialty.

I'm not really up on LED stuff, and I kind of dismissed LED knobs for the mk1 as it complicates handle swapping.( But there will be the option of fixed length hollow shafts )

I found your lighted LED ring on your Flynn build, that's as much as I know about Neph rings.

I could make an additional plate that fits onto my joystick and into a simple round routed pocket. Have you got a link to suitable PA LED items?  What plastic is used for these rings ?

[Nephasth]

Call it the JimmerJammer.

Your diagram resembles Chance's joystick lighting, which provides a similar effect as a NephRing. Imagine a joystick base plate made from clear acrylic, this gets sandwiched between the stick and CP, leds get placed along the edge of the acrylic.

Here's a link: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,132983.msg1368093.html#msg1368093

[jimmer]

Got it, so Neph rings are clear acrylic plates lit from the edges.

I could make those depending on the surface finish required on the edges.

I quite like the idea of embedding the led in translucent material.  I've got some 6mm sheet for marquees that I could have a play with, if only I had some LEDs 

I could also do a combo of clear acrylic with a translucent diffuser at the stick. Would need testing though I'm not sure how well the light would pass from material to material.

I guess I need to get clued up on RGB LEDs.

[jimmer]

Call it the JimmerJammer.

hmmm, that sounds familiar.  Probably because it's my username on another forum

[ChanceKJ]

I was thinking a slightly thicker mounting plate that had channels routed into it, you could lay in a a couple of LEDs, then a Neph ring would lay flush overtop. This way you wouldn't have to bore two sizes of hole for each stick like I did. The Neph ring layer would just sandwich betwen the stick and the cp top. And the LEDs would reside in the plate of the stick.

I should do a Sketchup diagram. Hmmm,

Here's the LEDs:
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/led-pushbuttons/92-tropical-mood-light-rgb-5vdc-led.html

There were other ones I was thinking about that I've seen that were mounted on a ribbon cable. They would work best.

[mvolke1]

If you made it 4-8 way switchable from top of the control panel, and it was leaf switch, I'd be in. I have the Ultimarc Mag-Stick Plus, which is nice, but it would be cool to see another one on the market. Also, the Mag-Stick is not a leaf-switch joystick.

I work in marketing, and would be happy to help you out. Just PM me.

[jimmer]

I was thinking a slightly thicker mounting plate that had channels routed into it, you could lay in a a couple of LEDs, then a Neph ring would lay flush overtop. This way you wouldn't have to bore two sizes of hole for each stick like I did. The Neph ring layer would just sandwich betwen the stick and the cp top. And the LEDs would reside in the plate of the stick.

Easy to do, but would you want the light ring that deep on wood? 19mm away from the surface.   You went to the effort of embedding your rings when a neph ring would have been simpler, or maybe that was to do with not shortening the ball height?

How thick is the clear/translucent plate? I'm not mad about adding the extra thickness to the wood panel because of what it does to the geometry but 4 or 5mm isn't too bad.   For the metal panel it's fine because it moves the geometry closer to the wood/average, in fact I was considering thicker mounting plates for the metal panel either as standard or a choice.

[jimmer]

If you made it 4-8 way switchable from top of the control panel, and it was leaf switch, I'd be in. I have the Ultimarc Mag-Stick Plus, which is nice, but it would be cool to see another one on the market. Also, the Mag-Stick is not a leaf-switch joystick.

Yeah, everyone wants that   But that's a different product, or a later evolution.

My main interest is swappable control panels rather than switchable sticks. I only started desiging sticks because there wasn't a grommet stick or a good 2way available.

[ChanceKJ]

I agree with the switchable being a later evolution.  just remember: "there were no cameras on the first iPad".

However, you still want to solve a couple cool needs with the first gen. Like lighting. And everyone has a hollow shaft with a lit balltop (looks lame, IMO  ). This way you can sell the stick in two flavours, With or without the "Neph-Ring" drop in kit.   With my design, you get that thicker mounting plate, however the new lighting works way better... 

The ring integrates into the plate, so it blocks light bleed to nearby transparent buttons.  The ring doesn't affect the height of the plate either.  And now it's also an actual "ring".

The ring would need to be a scuffed translucent, instead of completely transparent in order to spread the light. Kinda like the inner part around the joystick hole on the current Neph Ring plates.

The LED ribbons would be held in place by a couple different ideas i have. A screw-in block or just a small peg that protrudes through the middle of the ribbon. what ever is easiest. (i didn't draw that in the design, so you'd have to imagine it.)

[ChanceKJ]

The "Neph-Kit" would include: Two LED's (three if you want to include a spare), the internal Neph-Ring, and a clear dust washer.  You could also sell it as an aftermarket drop in kit.


You could also make an accessory that was a second riser plate layer that mounts between the joystick plate and the surface, that had a way to have an under-mounted hidden dust washer for those metal CP's.  Just a thought.

[Nephasth]

The "Neph-Kit" would include: Two LED's (three if you want to include a spare), the internal Neph-Ring, and a clear dust washer.  You could also sell it as an aftermarket drop in kit.

Don't forget to pay royalties...

[yotsuya]

Make sure you have an unlit option, too. Not everyone wants a lit panel, especially if you're a purist.

[ChanceKJ]

Make sure you have an unlit option, too. Not everyone wants a lit panel, especially if you're a purist.

....This way you can sell the stick in two flavours, With or without the "Neph-Ring" drop in kit....

...Yeah, ..thats what... I .. said...  ?

 

Don't forget to pay royalties...

Or call it something else 

(haha, just trying to give credit for the origin of the idea...  )

[jimmer]

You didn't answer my question directly, but it looks like you are happy with the ring being all the way below the wood, ie 19mm down.

I guess this is about providing a glow in the hole, rather than an uplighter shining on the ball ? I will have a play with some LEDs and different materials.

The grommet is positioned inside the plate thickness which means the thickness has to increase, also means the wires will probably come in from the short side (on a narrow plate version). But it also means there is hardly any clearance required so the light material can extend in close to the shaft eg:

[jimmer]

Quick update.

There will be two flavours: Japanese and American

Japanese will be smaller with 9mm shaft showing and 35mm balltop.

American will be a bit larger, look like a wico from above the panel, and wil be able to be tuned to feel like a wico (remember there will be variation of restrictors and grommet stiffness)


Also I've abandoned the above panel handle swap, because I figured you will nearly always be changing the restrictor too, and that's a below panel operation. Handle will not even be in two parts, it's a complete swap out, but there won't be any springs or e-clips to fly off.  I think this means you will be able to swap LED lit handles relatively easily.

[yotsuya]

I was just thinking about this right now. What's your plan for the grommet?

[jimmer]

I was just thinking about this right now. What's your plan for the grommet?

Stick a shaft through it 


Built my first prototype today with the leafs I plan to use.  Pretty sweet. Waiting on some Wicos and a Korean stick to compare the feel to. It looks good too, but I don't want to reveal it quite yet, you can guess what it look like though from the earlier photos.

No-one commented so far on how I should launch this. Should I do a Kickstarter?

The advantages I see would be the chance to create some buzz but maybe I missed the boat there. And to get some confidence that they will sell. As a first timer into this market place it's really hard to know how many to make for the first batch. 


Here's a picture showing the 2 sizes I mentioned. I need to find a bat top for the American version.