Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news


  

Author Topic: 80's driving game  (Read 20059 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
80's driving game
« on: February 24, 2014, 05:38:48 am »
A quick post to gauge if there is any interest. I'm coding my own race game- fake 3D, sprite based 80s style.
Is there any interest for a homebrew game like this? If there is interest I'll make it driving cab friendly (support for driving controls and such).
What are "must have" features in your opinion for a racegame in this style?

Ofcourse some videos to show what I have so far:
Racer, Dutch level (Work In Progress)

and
Racer, snow level (work in progress)

Sjaak

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 685
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 06:01:35 am »
I like it, especially the Dutch level with too many confusing max. speed signs...just like in real life.

Must haves:
  • A red car!
  • Maybe cop cars, that chase you?
  • Options to tune your car (from better tires/engine to more usefull things like leds underneath the car and 6000 watt audio system)
  • Night time

But what about QixPanic?

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16805
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 06:49:37 am »
That's pretty awesome man. 

So are you coding that from scratch or using a pre-existing engine or what? 


As to your question:

Lambo's and/or Ferraris... find me a 80's racer that doesn't have them and I'll find you an 80's racer that isn't very fun.

Pretty girls.  It's not a deal breaker but they seem to be included in all the greats, so maybe there is something to it?

Music selection.  Since this is a modern title using a mp3 playlist would probably be the easiest. 

Traffic obviously.  I figure you know that one though.  ;)

Some kind of gimmick would probably be a good idea as well... turbo boost, drifting mechanics, anything to set it apart.  Again all the greats seemed to have had some sort of gimmick.

I'll second the night level suggestion.  For some reason a nighttime level always seems special on these racers.  Ditto for sunrise and sunset.


Generic Eric

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4517
  • Restore! Don't maim for MAME, build from scratch!
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143226.0.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 07:11:08 am »
How about a button to change the view?  I always liked to change the view to inside the car. 

More road hazards.  I saw the cows, but they didn't cross.  You could add chickens, rabbits and turtles to make it interesting. 

How about a level where you race parallel to a train while avoiding road hazards and other cars?  If you are too slow, the train crosses the road ahead of you and your time runs out.

I have a view other ideas about racing away from a tsunami while driving on a bridge towards the mainland.  The other is while racing away through the country side from a tornado.

Sjaak's and Howard's ideas were all sound.

edit
A multiplayer, choose your own adventure driving game based on cannonball run "race across the country" type movies.  At each checkpoint give an option to select from 2 or 3 paths.  In game money for better time than your opponent, and then in game head start for the next path.
edit
several grammar edits
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 07:39:00 am by Generic Eric »

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 07:32:55 am »
I like it, especially the Dutch level with too many confusing max. speed signs...just like in real life.
  ;D

But what about QixPanic?
Still working on it, don't worry!

That's pretty awesome man. 

So are you coding that from scratch or using a pre-existing engine or what?
Thanks! It's coded from scratch (C# with XNA). I found this page and challenged myself to implement this. Turned out to be a fun thing to work on.

Must haves:
  • A red car!
  • Maybe cop cars, that chase you?
  • Options to tune your car (from better tires/engine to more usefull things like leds underneath the car and 6000 watt audio system)
  • Night time
Lambo's and/or Ferraris... find me a 80's racer that doesn't have them and I'll find you an 80's racer that isn't very fun.

Pretty girls.  It's not a deal breaker but they seem to be included in all the greats, so maybe there is something to it?

Music selection.  Since this is a modern title using a mp3 playlist would probably be the easiest. 

Traffic obviously.  I figure you know that one though.  ;)

Some kind of gimmick would probably be a good idea as well... turbo boost, drifting mechanics, anything to set it apart.  Again all the greats seemed to have had some sort of gimmick.

I'll second the night level suggestion.  For some reason a nighttime level always seems special on these racers.  Ditto for sunrise and sunset.

The current car is modelled after the Lamborghini Countach; and I would like to do more and have the player select the car of their choice (same with music- it's indeed MP3s and is fairly easy to do. I have a friend working on tunes). A lot of graphics have to be made, I want the car to flip over like in Outrun when it hits roadside objects above certain speeds.

A night level is very possible; the current engine supports dynamic palette switching with a fade-timer (the sky goes darker when it starts to rain- in it is possible to start one section in daylight and fade to night during a course. I have also "fog" implemented so nighttime could have reduced visibility. Oh and the traffic automatically switches on their tail lights when it rains or the "fog" is over a threshold (a bit hard to see, but check the red car at about 24 seconds in the Dutch level).

Traffic is in the works. A policecar chasing you is a great idea!

Pretty girls- added to the list!

The Gimmick- that's what I'm looking for. A turbo (worked well in the Burnout series) seems nice. Also upgrades might be a good idea. The car is now pushed out of corners based on the speed of the car and the level of the curve, better tires could reduce that force as well.

How about a level where you race parallel to a train while avoiding road hazards and other cars?  If you are to slow, the train crosses the road ahead of you and your time runs out.

I like that idea! Don't know yet how to implement it properly, but a speeding train sounds like an exiting competition.

A multiplayer, choose your own adventure driving game based on cannonball run "race across the country" type movies.  At each checkpoint give an option to select from 2 or 3 paths.  In game money for better time than your opponent, and then in game head start for the next path.
I have been toying with the idea like The Great American Cross-Country Road Race. Added it back to my idea's list :-)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 07:34:45 am by Felsir »

Generic Eric

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4517
  • Restore! Don't maim for MAME, build from scratch!
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143226.0.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 07:51:32 am »
At some point, we should pass a Clint Eastwood lookalike driving with an orangutan.   That could be an idea itself.  With enough plays, you could inject random cars with shout outs from various movies.   Drive often enough and you'll pass the Mystery Machine.  Trigger the Mystery Machine often enough, and you'll see it driven by the different cast members.

Malenko

  • KNEEL BEFORE ZODlenko!
  • Trade Count: (+58)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13254
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142404.msg1475162.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 08:22:40 am »
How about a level where you race parallel to a train while avoiding road hazards and other cars?  If you are too slow, the train crosses the road ahead of you and your time runs out.
Death Valley in Cruisn USA did this, and its pretty great.


(about 1:29 in)

To pile on suggestions:
Multiple Cars to pick from
Multiple Car colors to pick from
Love the outrun road splits, why not make it better  Left, Right, AND straight
Lane swaps ie in the USA levels you drive on the right, in Great Britain on the left
Multiple Cameras, I know already mentioned but Im not a fan of inside the car, but I know some people like the ass end of the car against the screen, some people like the camera where you have it now.


My buddy Kazuya (Davide Pasca) made a game called Final Freeway (and Final Freeway 2) for iOS and Droid, check them out if you want a little inspiration.


Car cameos would be pretty awesome, and there are tons to use (in addition to the ones mentioned: The General Lee, KITT spring to mind)
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

Generic Eric

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4517
  • Restore! Don't maim for MAME, build from scratch!
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143226.0.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2014, 08:41:11 am »
Drove the kids to school on roads with ice ruts and had an idea.  Challenge Level!  You are driving a fire truck hauling water with an open top down a road with a bunch of pot holes.  Loose too much water and the fire burns out of control.

Challenge level:   Avoid cars while maintaining the balance of an egg on the rear  spoiler!  Watch out for those banked turns and roads.

Also, have you ever driven behind a chicken truck?  Feathers everywhere.  Could be a distraction like the snow level. 

BadMouth

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8446
  • ...
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2014, 09:18:24 am »
If it's 80's, it needs a hi/lo shifter.  Hot air balloons or a blimp in the sky.

+1 on the gimmick.  Outrun had the "choose your path" gameplay.  I keep thinking of 90's games like Cruisin' and California Speed when I think of other gimmicks.  I'll browse through the other 80's games and get back to you.  It will be something cool to think about while stuck at work.


BadMouth

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8446
  • ...
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 09:26:54 am »
I like the movement of the camera when you wreck on WEC Lemans
(trying to hit the checkpoints before running out of time in that game is maddening)
WEC LE Mans 24 (ARCADE)


Overall, probably newer looking than what you're going for, but check out the horizons on Super Monaco GP.
The ocean or a lake in the distance is pretty cool, but remember to make more downhill than uphill if heading toward it.  ;)
The buildings on a mountainside are also a nice touch.
[ARCADE] Super Monaco GP 1989 SEGA (Gameplay) FullHD 1080p


twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 580
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2014, 09:40:53 am »
I think the game looks fantastic so far but it's actually a lot more impressive in motion than the still images lead on... it seems rather plain just from the screenshots but maybe that will change once you've got traffic and other things.

One thing that makes it look really weird to me is your placement of the car. I would recommend placing the car lower on the screen and make it a little larger (essentially changing the camera view to closer to the car).

If you look at most racing games of this type the car is either at the very bottom of the screen or close to it... you have your car near the center.

I think the placement of the road and skyline is perfect... the car just needs to be lower.


For example...
Rad Racer: car is at the bottom


Outrun: car is at the bottom


Even more modern games like Cruis'n USA: car is near the bottom regardless of camera.


------------------

Other suggestions:
-Force Feedback... I mean who doesn't like force feedback
-Multiplayer (LAN) support... AFAIK there aren't many of these games that offer multiplayer that could be part of your gimmic
-Mountains to help break up the skyline... Maybe it's just because I live in a region with a lot of mountains but it seems weird to have it go straight from ground to sky without anything breaking up the two.
-Tunnels? having tunneled sections might add some variety to the tracks.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 09:44:01 am by twistedsymphony »

BadMouth

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8446
  • ...
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2014, 10:20:06 am »
Randomly posting things as they come to me.....

Although a lot of work, more sprites for different angles of the car would go a long way in making it look polished.

Here's an idea for a gimmick - Allow the car to jump a little when going over a hill at high speed.  Controls don't work until it lands.  Sparks fly when it lands and bottoms out.  There could be a hill with a turn after it so you have to slow down to avoid jumping it or else crash.  Games usually had a landmark to let you know that it was coming up...once you knew it was there.  Although the landmark would be memorable, so you'd know the second time through, it was not a warning sign or anything like that.  Kinda like in Daytona where when you see the Sonic wall, you know that turn can't be taken full speed.


Generic Eric

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4517
  • Restore! Don't maim for MAME, build from scratch!
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143226.0.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 10:25:55 am »
Tab to configure:

Real hardware setup options for cab builders.  For example, make hi/lo, 4 gear, 6 gear options, but only in setup, not during game play.  As such, no option for auto/manual during gameplay.

Single pedal (release to slow down) 
Gas & Brake
Three Pedal support, If you could add clutch, that would be cool.

I'll echo the FFB

Output to external screen:
How about a small rearview mirror that always displayed the rear view instead of just a pop up?  Or the cab builder could use a rear view mirror that pointed at a second monitor behind the driver?

External Dash elements:
In game elements outputted to external elements:
USB speedometers
LED Array for Speed as in Crusi'n USA
LED indicator for transmission position
Pseudo GPS NAV Screen.

Malenko

  • KNEEL BEFORE ZODlenko!
  • Trade Count: (+58)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13254
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142404.msg1475162.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 10:40:07 am »
Single pedal (release to slow down) 
Gas & Brake
I'll echo the FFB

Output to external screen:
How about a small rearview mirror that always displayed the rear view instead of just a pop up?  Or the cab builder could use a rear view mirror that pointed at a second monitor behind the driver?
Pseudo GPS NAV Screen.
Single pedal sucks, gas and brake would be the way to go (let off the gas to slow a little, use the brakes to slow a lot)
FFB would be neat but thats drifting away (PUN!) from an 80's racer.
rearview, not very 80's racer-ish I mean maybe a little on screen one at the top, but most of these games were spent weaving through traffic not seeing whats behind you.
I think a Hi Low shifter would be most 80s racer arcade accurate
GPS Nav on an 80's racer?
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

Generic Eric

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4517
  • Restore! Don't maim for MAME, build from scratch!
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143226.0.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2014, 10:54:40 am »
GPS Nav on an 80's racer?
I *might* have got carried away when mentioning the ideas for external outputs.

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16805
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 11:08:26 am »
Man that was a interesting article.  If I knew that was out there I would have already started on a racer myself.  ;)

I can't disagree with any of the suggestions.  Especially moving the car down a little.  I knew something looked off in the demo but I couldn't figure out what. 

How about an in-car view?  It worked well for rad-mobile. 

I think instead of just having cameos of famous cars you should just have famous cars as selectable characters.  That might be a lot of work to do on your own, but if you make it skinnable and give us simple access to some variables like speed and handling, we could probably help out with that. 

How about some sweet jumps?  I'm not talking about puny little gaps in the road... I mean full on Dukes of Hazzard jumps.  I've never seen that pulled off properly in a scrolling racer. 

Btw I figured that was a Lambo in the demo, I guess I should have specified... RED sports cars.  All other colors are invalid.  ;)  That's why nobody picked the stupid white car in Rad Racer. 

If you want to do the blinky lights and such we can do that through mamehooker.  You can of course use the official mame-style windows messages, but that takes a lot of calls to setup.  The next version has DDE support and if you wanted to go that route, a single api definition combined with a single line of code will send an output to mamehooker.  That's how I implemented it on TS2  to keep the processing loop lighter. 

In terms of force feedback.... I mean you could add it, but a really good rumble would probably be just as good.  It worked for outrun and the sega racers. 

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 580
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2014, 11:30:03 am »
...
How about some sweet jumps?  I'm not talking about puny little gaps in the road... I mean full on Dukes of Hazzard jumps.  I've never seen that pulled off properly in a scrolling racer. 
...

The closest thing I can think of are the original Mario Kart and F-Zero both had sweet jump mechanics but it's kind of a gray area as to whether they'd be considered a true scrolling type racer.

-------------

As for FFB I would see it simply as getting heavier the harder you turn (like a scaled centering spring effect) and then a rumble effect when you crash... If you wanted to get crazy maybe some push-back when you rub up against another vehicle
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 11:35:30 am by twistedsymphony »

Generic Eric

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4517
  • Restore! Don't maim for MAME, build from scratch!
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,143226.0.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 01:10:54 pm »
Man that was a interesting article.  If I knew that was out there I would have already started on a racer myself.  ;)

There is room on the road for more than one racer!

If you want to do the blinky lights and such we can do that through mamehooker.  You can of course use the official mame-style windows messages, but that takes a lot of calls to setup.  The next version has DDE support and if you wanted to go that route, a single api definition combined with a single line of code will send an output to mamehooker.  That's how I implemented it on TS2  to keep the processing loop lighter. 
I am going to check mamehooker out! Thanks.

Boomslang

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 711
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 02:49:17 pm »
Awesome stuff! I think force feedback would be cool, hi/lo shifter and multiplayer LAN. Perhaps police chases?

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 03:03:25 pm »
Awesome ideas! Keep em coming :-) keep in mind that I'm doing this in my spare time (about 4-6 hours a week) so it will take some time between updates.

The shifter is on my list, it will also make the sound better (now it is a linear sound from zero to max, and the gear shifts will also improve that).

I'll look into FFB and Mamehooker later, I don't have the hardware so I will need volunteers at that stage...

Jumps sound like a good idea, they will have to be meaningful (the jumps in Turbo Outrun are more an annoyance than a feature IMHO).

Howard_Casto I'll get to that configurable car stats later, that's a great idea to get variety in the game.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 580
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2014, 03:31:25 pm »
I agree on jumps being meaningful... I think it would be great if the jumps were semi-hidden and allowed you access to short-cuts (I'd recommend playing San Fran Rush or looking at the original Mario Kart and F-Zero for some awesome examples of what I'm talking about).


---------

I had an idea for a gimmick... it might be cool if there was some time-travel aspect to the game. I was thinking maybe go back in time or forward in time to change the track design or avoid "permanent" obstacles.

Maybe another option would be to simply reverse time and get a certain number of "do-overs" similar to how you can rewind Forza but more implemented as a gamplay mechanic like the way it works in Braid (if you've ever played that game).


I'm not sure how that would work with timed based races or multi-player though.... maybe even have a DeLorean as an optional car choice.

Also here's some awesome 80s inspiration:

KUNG FURY Official Trailer [HD]

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 10:13:14 am »
During lunchbreak I had a little time to tinker with my code. Not enough time to do major features, but I did some restructuring and made some settings configurable. Also I added Sjaak's Fix-it Felix post-processing code for added retro look (optional ofcourse).

Will probably have more time this evening to do some real coding...

lamprey

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 636
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2014, 02:43:08 pm »

KUNG FURY Official Trailer [HD]

Bahah.. I got nothing..

edekoning

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 522
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2014, 03:20:17 pm »
During lunchbreak I had a little time to tinker with my code. Not enough time to do major features, but I did some restructuring and made some settings configurable. Also I added Sjaak's Fix-it Felix post-processing code for added retro look (optional ofcourse).

Will probably have more time this evening to do some real coding...

Awesome work! Its already looking very nice. I would like to see 2p/3p/4p split screen :) Oh and for 2p split screen a choice for vertical or horizontal split would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the link regarding the technology, really informative  :applaud:

Sjaak

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 685
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2014, 01:57:25 pm »
Just watched the videos WITH sound...I really like the music. Will it be in the game or is it just a placeholder???

mcseforsale

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1471
  • Creepy Mario Dude
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 02:39:01 pm »
This is neat.  Watching with interest.

debircsbuS.

AJ

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2014, 03:04:54 am »
Just watched the videos WITH sound...I really like the music. Will it be in the game or is it just a placeholder???
It's in the game. One of my friends has a home studio and composed a couple of tracks for the game.

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2014, 03:40:03 am »
Question about the hi-low shifter. I don't have a driving cabinet; so  if you have an actual shifter on your cab, how does the game know the initial position of the physical shifter when the game starts?

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16805
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2014, 04:11:30 am »
Since no one else is likely up I'll try to answer. 

First off understand that the way mame does it does NOT work for a real hi/low shifter.  Cab owners have been fighting the mame devs over this issue for years.

A traditional shifter only has one switch in it.  While the switch is pressed, the shifter position is high, while it's released, the position is low.  It's the mechanics of the shifter itself that holds the switch either open or closed.  Also keep in mind that some hi/low shifters worked the opposite way, with the switch being in the low position.

So to please everyone (god help you) you'll need the following options:

Hold for high=button  (One switch shifter, with Hi being on)
Hold for low=button (Ditto, but low is on)

Toggle Shifter =button (toggle between high and low... like mame works)

(These two are dedicated buttons... pressing them or holding them shifts to that gear)
Hi Gear=button
Low Gear=button

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 06:45:27 am »
So to please everyone (god help you)
Heh, heh, I know what you mean. I'll try to get close if it is fairly easy to implement.

So a config like this would satisfy most of the people:
Code: [Select]
ShiftMode  = Automatic | Manual | PlayerSelect
ShifterType = Toggle | HoldHi | HoldLow | HiLowButtons
ToggleButton = key | none
HiButton = key | none
LowButton = key | none
HoldHi mode is the "while switch is pressed position is Hi and when released it is Low" and checks the HiButton setting. The HoldLow mode is the inverse and checks the LowButton setting.
HiLowButtons shifts the gear into the HiButton/LowButton position while pressed (if the button is released it remains in that position).
Toggle mode switches between gears if the ToggleButton is pressed.

Shiftmode configures the game to either give the player the option for manual/automatic or preselect the shifter mode.

Sjaak

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 685
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2014, 06:55:47 am »
And that's just the shifter...don't forget about joysticks, gamepads, steering wheels, pedals, keyboard control..... ;D

BadMouth

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8446
  • ...
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2014, 08:06:28 am »
eh, steering wheels and pedals are just reconfigured dinput gamepads until you get into directional force feedback.
The newer Logitech wheels will even shake the wheel back and forth when you send the command for rumble.

I know nothing of C++ vs XNA, but are you aware of Cannonball?
https://github.com/djyt/cannonball/wiki

It's a complete rewrite of Outrun in C++ and uses the sprites from MAME roms.
It's open source if you want to browse to see how things were done.

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2014, 10:06:44 am »
Yes, I'm aware of the Cannonball project (I run that version on my cabinet). His blog entries are very interesting, I'll most likely use Outrun mechanics for subjects such as the scoring mechanism (http://reassembler.blogspot.nl/2012/04/traffic-code-ported.html).
The c++ code is a nice reference, but I cannot use any of the code (it's nice clean code though!). But articles as I just linked provide great insight in the mechanics.

edekoning

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 522
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2014, 12:01:11 pm »
The c++ code is a nice reference, but I cannot use any of the code (it's nice clean code though!). But articles as I just linked provide great insight in the mechanics.

Why not? don't you know there is this abomination called C++/CLI aka managed C++  ;D

Howard_Casto

  • Idiot Police
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16805
  • Your Post's Soul is MINE!!! .......Again??
    • The Dragon King
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2014, 12:56:16 pm »
eh, steering wheels and pedals are just reconfigured dinput gamepads until you get into directional force feedback.

And man now that I'm finally about to get the new version of mamehooker out the door, I'm learning what a pain in the butt directional FF is.  You can certainly build the effects internally, but if you are doing anything complex it's far easier to use the long depreciated ffedit supplied by Microsoft (you'll see ffe files on even the most recent racer).  The problem is ffedit has all kinds of error suppression that'll make you think an effect file is properly structured, you'll load it up and it actually isn't. 

It isn't terribly hard to figure out once you get the hang of it, but imagine making an effect, trying it out on your program and getting an oddball error, spending the better part of an hour trying to track it down, only to figure out that ffedit by default binds the secondary motor to an axis even if a secondary motor doesn't exist. 

Xinput shouldn't be terribly hard though.  One api call with left and right motor strength and that's it.  Run off the road and use the small motor, hit something and use the large motor.  Even though it's feature slim, it is a lot simpler to deal with.

Felsir

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Creating cab artwork
    • Felsir's World
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2014, 08:25:20 am »
Okay, I have the lowgear/higear mechanics working. It took a while to get it "right". The automatic transmission shifts a bit earlier than the optimum, so with manual transmission you could get a slight advantage as bonus. Also manual transmission grants a bit more top speed.

Malenko

  • KNEEL BEFORE ZODlenko!
  • Trade Count: (+58)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13254
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142404.msg1475162.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2014, 09:05:35 am »
Okay, I have the lowgear/higear mechanics working. It took a while to get it "right". The automatic transmission shifts a bit earlier than the optimum, so with manual transmission you could get a slight advantage as bonus. Also manual transmission grants a bit more top speed.

sounds just about right. Most games grand a top speed bonus to manual gearboxes.
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

Xiaou2

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3957
  • NOM NOM NOM
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2014, 04:02:11 am »
I think Playability is most important..  however, if you are playing something that really is visually unpleasent... it can effect the experience to the point of not wanting to play.  Same goes for poor sound quality and or poor musical score.

 One thing I really like, is the speed.  Thats a key factor in making a very intense experience...  and its most always often lacking in a lot of the new 3d based games.    Arcade style driving does not, nor should not be 100% realistic.   Its should be fun.   And games like Sega Turbo, or Spy Hunter... has acceleration & speed levels that no cars can achieve.


 The thing I do not like the most... is the effects... such as the tire smoke and rain splash.  Its wretched ugly... and looks nothing like the real deal.  Totally ruins the whole thing for me.


 Also, the graphics are so flat.  There is no realistic shading going on.    A game like Outrun, trumps pretty much all other racers of the time.. and even after it... because the art was shaded very well.   Its adds impact, depth, and a level of realism.

 The other problem..  is that Retro Arcade games were shown on Arcade Monitors.  While the scanline effect does help a little... its still too flat looking, due to there being too little variances.  There are these huge blocks of solid colors..  and nothing is filling them.    With a real low-res arcade CRT..   the shadowmask creates a texture effect... which helps break up those solid block areas.  It makes it appear more shaded and artistic.  Lines are not as rigid..   and in games like this.. where objects are scaled..  it actually creates a bit of a true shading effect... because the smaller objects will be more effected by the shadowmask lines.  Thus, they will be less focused in detail.. as well as their colors will be more blended and slightly different.

 Color mixing, via light bleeding over the shadowmask's.. creates an automatic shading effect.  Its also often how they simulated transparency effects... using small dot patterns of black.   In emulators on an lcd.. you can easily make out these patterns.. and it looks horrible.. and nothing like how its supposed to look.   They also used it to make more colors and shading effects, by placing certain colors next to each other.. which would bleed together to form another color..   which was especially great, because certain hardware didnt have a lot of colors.. and or they didnt have a lot of memory to store better shaded graphics.

 
 Ive included a few quick mockups to make some points about lighting, texture, and other stuff...

 - The first pic..  shows how by adding a noise or texture style filter from photoshop..  can create a much more visually pleasing effect.
It helps make those large solid color areas much more interesting.  Almost like a simulation of gravel, grass..etc.   Where as before, it looks like everything is a flat piece of glass-smooth plastic.    As such, when you look at a game like Outrun, the shadowmask actually makes the art look like an oil painting.   A very unique expression... rather than a mere photograph.

 Also, because of this screen texture effect.. it helps hide resolution issues.  Such as scaling, harsh edges on sprites, jagged lines, and more.


 - The next pic shows a more realistically shaded car in a dark night snowstorm.   Visibility is lowered.  Objects far away.. are blurred.  The car color is turned down to match that dark environment.  Lighting from the cars limited headlamps.. stays in a small area.. while further out.. things get darker and darker... and more and more blurry.   Very fine translucent areas of snow gusts cause headlamp reflections, reducing visibility even more... (the light reflecting off the snow causes a level of brightness that makes it hard to see deeper past it.. in the dark)

 In the last Pic..  I created a more visible night version, on a more clear and moonlit night.   This one is to point out a great feature in Outrun.. which is the "Over-Scale" effect.   When an object, such as a tree passes your car.. it gets blown up to huge proportions, and really adds a depth effect that other racers lack.   Sort of like the side scrolling games, which put some large fast moving parallax scrolling layers in front of your character.

 In this case.. rather than merely scale them up...  by adding a slight blur to them, it simulates a real movie camera experience.   Where the greatest focused area is near the car...   the distant horizon is slightly blurred.. and so is anything past the car area.

 Again.. this creates greater depth and a greater feeling of speed and motion.

 Some other things to note...

 - Objects that are very far away will be less saturated in color.   (Most especially in the day)   This is an environmental effect of visibility, moisture, and blur.. as well as the way light bouncing off these objects travel.  As you get closer.. you see more detail.. and the colors get more Pop to them.

 - In a painting.. its often that the artists paints the edges a slightly darker shade.. to pull your attention towards the center of the painting.  It also creates a greater impact and depth effect.   This can be done artificially, to give that same artistic effect. Even if thats not quite realistic to real life.  Its just very visually pleasing... and thats the point.

 - If the sun is very bright.. colors will be very intense and saturated, but also, there will be very dark and well defined shadows.   If its more overcast.. colors are less bright and less saturated..  and the shading and shadows on objects is less dark.  (more color shown, rather than pure black levels)

 Most artists use this effect to great advantage.  They make, often exaggerated, high contrast effects... on purpose.   That gives the stuff more shading, more shadow.. and it will look more 3d, as well as is more pleasing to the eye.   If you look at Marble Madness... thats a great example of high contrast work.  Where as Marble Madness II... is not high contrast.  It looks much flatter and boring.  Possibly because it wasnt ever finished.. but maybe there are other reasons.  Either way.. its garbage compared to the original.   I feel the same way about the original Outrun look.. when compared to the more flat cartoon look of Turbo Outrun.

 FYI - I believe Marble madness was pre-rendered in 3d, and then raytraced.   Once the renders were finished.. they broke the captures into tile sets.   Im also pretty sure Outruns sprites were captured using digitized photos.  But then tweaked to the lower resolution, and hand edited to make sure it looked correct.

 Yrs later, in a game like outrunners... the sprites look too much like photographs in some areas.. and then very cartoony in others.  This ruins the whole graphical look.   Its like wearing lime green sweatpants and a business shirt & tie.  They just dont go well together visually.

 
 More later...


   

Sjaak

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 685
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2014, 06:45:17 am »
Xiaou2, you've made some excellent points. I've already added a noise filter to the HLSL shader code for the pac man game and it helps create the CRT look.

I like the second picture you posted with more realistic light, but personally I think if you add those lighting effects, the whole thing goes more to a race simulator with 3d graphics than a sprite based arcade game. The lighting has to be baked into the sprites and that will limit the range of light effects because of sprite limitations.

But this is just my opinion and maybe others think that sprite lighting should be more realistic...I know that this guy does: http://snakehillgames.com/spritelamp/

Malenko

  • KNEEL BEFORE ZODlenko!
  • Trade Count: (+58)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13254
    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,142404.msg1475162.html
Re: 80's driving game
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2014, 08:38:35 am »
The thing I do not like the most... is the effects... such as the tire smoke and rain splash.  Its wretched ugly... and looks nothing like the real deal.  Totally ruins the whole thing for me.

So you want the 80's driving game, which is currently based on arcade games like Outrun....... to be a sim?


Secondly, I'll bet you that you are wrong on how outruns sprites were made (and probably how marble madness was made as well)  . You don't give artists nearly enough credit, not everything is tracing a picture or a render.
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

  
 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31