Taking the plunge...

[thewisteron]

I am finally taking the plunge.  I am going to build a pedestal setup, much like uiucphoenix's quad panel - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133516.0;attach=303208;image.  I would love any feedback from all of you pros out there.

Requirements:
Emulation - Arcade, Atari, NES, SNES
4 player support (games - TMNT, X-Men, Simpsons, Gauntlet, Sunset Riders, 2P Smash TV, NBA Jam)
Spinner support (games - Arkanoid, Tempest, many Atari games incl Kaboom!)
Light Gun support (games - Terminator, Area 51, Time Crisis, Virtua Cop, House of the Dead, Ghost Squad)
Game specific LED buttons - usable buttons illuminate for each game

Parts:
1 U-HID
4 U360 Joysticks w/ hard springs (I know four is probably overkill, but I'm looking for ease of install/use)
38 Electric ICE 2 Concave w/ RGB Drive (buttons - 7 each for P1/P2, 4 each for P3/P4, Start and Coin for all players, 5 pinball, 3 admin)
2 AimTrak Light Guns
1 SpinTrak w/ knob and flyweight
...and then of course all of the wiring, a mid-range PC, and LED/LCD TV

Not including:
Trackball - I don't care for the majority of trackball games
Flight Stick - I don't care for flight games
Pedals - I'll just use buttons and the spinner for racing games since I don't play many of them

Any comments or suggestions before I place my order?

[eds1275]

Sounds good to me. Keep in mind that your analogue joys will work great for car and flight games as well as the spinner for driving.

[Brutick]

Be sure to post pictures of your control panel design! Everyone would love to see 

[thewisteron]

I'll definitely post pictures once I start building...hopefully this month.

[DaveMMR]

Spinner support (games - Arkanoid, Tempest, many Atari games incl Kaboom!)

You know, Kaboom! gets no love from my friends; I happen to thing it's a deeper game than it appears and highly enjoy it.

Anyway, good luck. A pedestal gives you a lot of freedoms with space but, even so, losing the trackball will keep the size down a bit.

If you're using the P3/4 (outer) sticks for Smash TV, et al, keep in mind you will have to keep them somewhat reachable and in-line with the inside sticks.

[Ginsu Victim]

I'll definitely post pictures once I start building...hopefully this month.

How about BEFORE you start building....that way we can keep you from re-doing it. 

[thewisteron]

DaveMMR - I had considered the outer sticks for Smash TV and I'm going to modify that a bit from uiucphoenix's quad panel to make them more in line.

Ginsu - I will post a mockup of my layout shortly.  I also plan on trying it out before I cut it for real.  I'll use some cheap wood or cardboard I have laying around for my first few versions

[mgb]

It definitely sounds to me like you've got a realistic idea of what you want to do.
I like the idea that you're realizing there are some games you just don't need to support.

When I first starting reading your post and I saw 4-player, I thought "Oh boy, here we go" because it seems lately there have been a lot of the "must play every single game, But I don't a frankenpanel" posts.

But definitely, seek out advice before you build and remember to not angle p3 & p4 sticks.

[thewisteron]

Yes, I've read multiple places that angling sticks is a big no-no. I'll avoid that. I'm also hoping to keep my CP smaller than most of the 4P CPs I've seen by eliminating a track ball and putting 1p and 2p a little closer while still giving them enough elbow room.

[mgb]

That sounds like a good idea.
 I imagine the cp will be around the size of a typical TMNT or Simpsons cp?

[thewisteron]

It will probably be a little wider than TMNT since I want my joysticks more in alignment for games like Smash TV and Robotron.

[thewisteron]

Another question I have. I want to light my buttons on a per game basis. Does anyone know if this can be accomplished with one u-hid and ledblinky considering I have 38 buttons? Do I need an additional controller like the pacdrive64?

[yotsuya]

Another question I have. I want to light my buttons on a per game basis. Does anyone know if this can be accomplished with one u-hid and ledblinky considering I have 38 buttons? Do I need an additional controller like the pacdrive64?

You'll definitely need an additional controller for your lights, if not more. 38 buttons. Damn.

[thewisteron]

Yes, 38 .  It is a 4 player pedestal.

So if I have a U-Hid and then buy a Pac64 that should cover me, right?  I was planning on using LEDBlinky.  Their page says it supports multiple combinations of controllers. 

This whole build is going to be a lot of trial and error, methinks.

[yotsuya]

Are you lighting each button up just one color? Or are you going full on RGB per button?

[thewisteron]

I'll probably go full RGB so I can light it differently depending on the game.

Another question. I'm reading about the u-hid and I'm worried it can't handle 38 buttons, 4 u360s, a spinner and two light guns. I'm still not clear on all of the connections. I guess I should have figured that out before ordering

[yotsuya]

I'll probably go full RGB so I can light it differently depending on the game.

Another question. I'm reading about the u-hid and I'm worried it can't handle 38 buttons, 4 u360s, a spinner and two light guns. I'm still not clear on all of the connections. I guess I should have figured that out before ordering

Your going to need multiple PACLED64s. A PACLED64 has 64 channels, sure, but RGB needs three channels PER BUTTON.

[thewisteron]

Hmmm..maybe I'll only do full RGB for the Player buttons.  That would be 22 buttons (7 for P1/P2, 4 for P3/P4).  If each needs 3 channels, that would be 66.  If I have 80 available between the Pac64/U-Hid, that would only leave 14 for the rest of the buttons and I need 16.  I was planning on 2 pinball flipper buttons on each side and I was already thinking about bringing that down to 1 on each side which would give me exactly enough.

[PL1]

If you have a moment, I'd love for you to take a look at my other thread so I can stop hijacking this thread.

I was just answering there because you asked there.   

Back to the questions in this thread.

The U-HID has some limits mentioned in these quotes from the U-HID LED page.

Up to 16 connections can be defined as PC-Controlled LEDs.

That's only 5 RGB LEDs + 1 leftover channel.

The limit of 16 LEDs applies to the board to stay within USB specificatons on current draw (500mA).

The UHID has no connector allowing you to supplement the USB power.  (BTW, it would be limited to 100mA if it was plugged into an un-powered hub.  )

If you wanted to keep the second set of pinball flippers, you could skip some channels. (i.e. only connect the red channel on the Lower Flipper, the blue channel on the Upper Flipper,  and a green channel on the Ball Launch/Plunger button)

The flippers and plunger could only light up as that one color, but you'd still be able to control Stewie's mini playfield (Upper Flippers) on the Family Guy table and MagnaSave on Black Knight.


Scott

[thewisteron]

I see.  Ok, thanks yotsuya and PL1.  I guess my last question (for now) from above is:

Another question. I'm reading about the u-hid and I'm worried it can't handle 38 buttons, 4 u360s, a spinner and two light guns. I'm still not clear on all of the connections. I guess I should have figured that out before ordering

[PL1]

Another question. I'm reading about the u-hid and I'm worried it can't handle 38 buttons, 4 u360s, a spinner and two light guns. I'm still not clear on all of the connections. I guess I should have figured that out before ordering

If only there was a FAQ entry that explained how to add up the required inputs. 

First up the two light guns.  Aimtraks have their own USB interface boards = not connected to UHID.

From the UHID page:

Control counts which can be configured:

Total 50 connection pins.

Max 8 analog axes on 50 possible pins (Windows limitation)
Max 32 Gamepad buttons on 50 possible pins (Windows limitation)
Max 8 Quadrature mouse devices on 16 possible pins out of the 50.
Max 3 Quadrature mouse axes (X, Y and Z, Windows limitation)
Max 50 keyboard keys on 50 possible pins.
Max 16 LEDs in any combination of PC or U-HID controlled. (USB 500 mA current limitation).
Max 50 low-current output drivers.

Starting with 50 pins and subtracting as we go:

1 ground for buttons (and spinner below)
---49 pins left

38 buttons - 38 keyboard keys (or 32 gamepad buttons + 6 keyboard keys, etc.)
BTW, since you mentioned pinball flippers, there is some MAME/Pinball overlap that can free up some inputs.
---11 pins left

spinner - needs 2 data pins, 5v, and ground (piggyback on button ground to save pins)
---8 pins left

Looks like you need more inputs for the 4 u360s and 16 LED channels mentioned above. 


Scott

[yotsuya]

I'm curious why you did a u-hid? I would have done an I-pac4 myself. I don't think I would go full-RGB, either, on a 4 player just due to the sheer amount of wiring involved.

[thewisteron]

Hey, that is a handy link!

I was going to use the USB cable for all four of the U360s, so I shouldn't need pins for those.  I am also just realizing that they already include 10 pin headers for 8 additional buttons per joystick.  That is a pleasant surprise!

I went with UHid because of the LED + button combo.

I'll see if I can do what I need to do with the Uhid/U360s when they arrive this week. 

[Ginsu Victim]

thewisteron - Do you have notifications turned on so you see when you get PMs? I've been waiting to hear back from you.