I need some advice before buying parts

[jaharr01]

I need some advice before I buy some parts.Iv'e built a couple of arcades The first I used x arcade hardware for the controls, which I didn't like. The second I bought a keywiz interface and bought buttons and joystick off ebay. It was ok. So i'm building a new cabinet which I want an exit  emulator button, an exit frontend button, along with 6 control buttons and 8 way joystick for player 1 and 2.Also 1 and 2 player start buttons, coin door, and room for whatever else I want to control.I want the buttons to be LED lit also.A long story short I want my kids to be able to easily navigate the frontend and know what buttons do what function. The arcade I have now they get in an emulator and don't know how to exit the game without help. Another issue is when I play racing games the key emulator doesn't work as well as a gamepad.The questions I have are:

Do I need an Ipac 2 because it says it is the only one that holds memory, or will any interface do that?
Do I need an analog or a digital interface?
Do I need a separate controller like led wiz to control the leds,marquee lights, and etc?
Do I need a separate switchable power supply?
Does it matter where or what kind of buttons I get, for instance do I buy off ebay, or buy from someone like ultimarc or groovy game gear?
Does the ipac or keywiz or whatever kind of interface control the coin door?

The bottom line is I want the cabinet to be as simple and user friendly as possible.My wife complains that no one knows how to use the one I have now but me, because of combination keys for emulator exit and so on. She is onboard with me building one but she wants it very user friendly to navigate between emulators and games so the kids can enjoy it when I am not home.
                                                                                      Any advice will be appreciated

[clok]

Does it matter where or what kind of buttons I get, for instance do I buy off ebay, or buy from someone like ultimarc or groovy game gear?

Im sure they don't care to much, but you said advice.. get them (hardware/buttons) from somebody here.. support um..  they are the guys getting new stuff made and keeping the interesting stuff coming.

[PL1]

I suggest you read through the FAQ and look through Project Announcements so you can start to narrow down what you want your build to have and ask more specific questions.

So i'm building a new cabinet which I want an exit  emulator button, an exit frontend button, along with 6 control buttons and 8 way joystick for player 1 and 2.Also 1 and 2 player start buttons, coin door, and room for whatever else I want to control.

1 or 2 inputs - Exit emulator button / Exit frontend button - Not sure you need both.  Is this going to be a dedicated cab or standalone controller that plugs into a PC?

20 inputs - 8 way joystick (4 inputs) + 6 player buttons (6 inputs) for player 1 and 2

2 inputs - Start buttons for players 1 and 2

2 inputs - Coin door (2-slot)

So far, that's 25-26 digital inputs.

"room for whatever else I want to control" -  This makes it impossible to answer without reading your mind. 

Check out this part of the FAQ to add up your desired controls/input types/number of inputs required/encoders.

Do you also want a Pause button?

I want the buttons to be LED lit also.

Single color or RGB?  Single color always-on or adjustable-color/brightness/animated?

Single color always-on LEDs are MUCH easier to wire than animated RGB buttons.

A long story short I want my kids to be able to easily navigate the frontend and know what buttons do what function. The arcade I have now they get in an emulator and don't know how to exit the game without help.

Dedicated admin buttons and proper software configuration will make this easier for them.

You can configure all your emulators and Front End to use the same exit button

Another issue is when I play racing games the key emulator doesn't work as well as a gamepad.The questions I have are:

Are you talking about racing games in MAME or console emulators?

Do I need an Ipac 2 because it says it is the only one that holds memory, or will any interface do that?

IIRC most encoders will hold custom settings without needing to reload other than the KeyWiz, X-Arcade, and I-Pac VE.

Do I need an analog or a digital interface?

Depends on the controls you use.

Digital - anything with a microswitch
Optical - trackball/spinner
Analog - 270 degree steering wheel, SW yoke, analog stick

Do I need a separate controller like led wiz to control the leds,marquee lights, and etc?

The controller is for controlling the color (on RGB buttons) and brightness of LEDs.

Marquee lights are usually constant-on.

Do I need a separate switchable power supply?

Depends on the number and current draw of your LEDs.   

Does it matter where or what kind of buttons I get, for instance do I buy off ebay, or buy from someone like ultimarc or groovy game gear?

You're definitely safe buying from Ultimarc, GGG, or Paradise Arcade.

Does the ipac or keywiz or whatever kind of interface control the coin door?

Yes -- the coin door is electrically just like an LED button.  There's a microswitch that the falling coin triggers and a separate lighting circuit.


Scott

[thewisteron]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I think this helps answer one of your questions.  I didn't realize that I need to think about the Power Supply not being able to handle all of my leds.  I'm probably going to use a laptop that I got a few years ago for my emulation machine.  Does anyone know how to calculate how much power you need?  I'll have about 38 rgb led buttons, so I am a little worried now.

[PL1]

Check the product page to see what the max current draw is for your LEDs.

For example if you have the new GGG Helio9 RGB LEDs, they draw 55mA per color = 165 mA when all 3 colors are at full intensity.

165mA * 38 buttons = 6,270 mA = 6.27 Amps.

You should leave a little wiggle room, so get a 6.5-7 Amp power supply.

If you use the GGG RGB-Drive II, they draw 20mA per color = 60 mA when all 3 colors are at full intensity.

60 mA * 38 buttons = 2280 mA = 2.28 Amps ==> 2.5-3 Amp power supply.

Also be sure that the wiring is large enough to handle the current, unless you really want an electrical fire.   


Scott

[jaharr01]

The racing games I was talking about we're not in mame actually it's daytonausa. And a few others. I have a spinner but it won't work in Daytona USA and a few console racing games. I'm not that concerned with that really. I believe that some interfaces emulate game controllers and some emulate keys is there a difference? Also the buttons I was talking about was to have one specific that exits the emulator and one that exits the front end ( hidden) or I could do a key combination. Is there not a pause in mame? My current arcade doesn't have a coin slot or a lighted marquee. But I see what u mean. My biggest concern was getting the right interface to attach LEDs coin slot and etc.

[PL1]

I believe that some interfaces emulate game controllers and some emulate keys is there a difference?

One outputs gamepad button presses, the other sends keystrokes.

Some emulators require specific keystrokes, but most can handle either type of encoder.

IMHO this is part of why you should figure out which emulators you plan on running and install/configure them before you order parts/drill holes in the control panel.

Also the buttons I was talking about was to have one specific that exits the emulator and one that exits the front end ( hidden) or I could do a key combination.

If the computer is going to be in a dedicated gaming cab, you probably won't need to exit the front end. (you may want a system shutdown button, though)

If you're using the computer for something else such as surfing the web, kids doing homework on it, etc. then a button to exit the front end might make sense.

As with the previous point, install and configure your emulators/front end so you know what controls you want/need to make the software behave the way you want it to.

On the subject of using key combos, I thought you wanted to keep it simple for the kids.   

Is there not a pause in mame?

Yes, there is a pause function in MAME.

I was asking if you wanted a button marked "pause" on the control panel. (since you didn't mention it in your OP, but it is a popular choice)


Scott

[jaharr01]

The info from the link to a wiki was very helpful.I guess I should have been clearer though on what i'm building. It is a dedicated game cabinet.I think i'll use the  six buttons for each player joystick x2 and 1P and 2P. Probably a pause button, an exit emulator button, a shut down, or sleep button. The frontend I have configured is maximus arcade, the emulators are: Mame,model 2, NES,SNES, N64, Atari 2600, and sega genesis. One question I do have is what is difference between a regular 4 or 8 way joystick and a Leaf-Pro™ True Leaf-Switch Joystick? My other ones were plain 4 way joysticks. are the true leaf ones better, or do they have better control? Is there one that you all recommend? Would either of these interfaces be ok? Is one better than the other?
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=303

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html

[PL1]

One question I do have is what is difference between a regular 4 or 8 way joystick and a Leaf-Pro™ True Leaf-Switch Joystick?

There are a some good reviews on those sticks that you should look up.   

In general, leaf switches can be "tuned" for engage distance, require a shorter reset distance (how far you have to back off to open the connection after closing it) than microswitches, and are more likely to need adjustment than microswitches.

My other ones were plain 4 way joysticks

Are you sure about that?

4-way and 8-way sticks both have 4 switches. (leaf or micro)

4-way can only hit Up, Down, Left, or Right at one time, but 8-way can hit diagonals. (U+R, etc.)

Would either of these interfaces be ok? Is one better than the other?
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=303

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html

KeyWiz and IPac are both fine products.

Here are three considerations that may influence your decision.

1. KeyWiz is a PS/2 device. As long as your computer has a PS/2 keyboard jack, not a problem.

2. KeyWiz doesn't retain custom keymaps when the system powers down.

IIRC some people have had issues with the provided software autoloading their custom keymap on bootup.

If your setup with the emulators you mentioned above can be configured to work with KeyWiz default keys, no problem.

3. KeyWiz uses the Shazaaam! input to access shifted functions.   IPac uses the P1 Start input to access shifted functions.

People are less likely to accidently trigger shifted functions with the KeyWiz than with the IPac.

I know it's a rare possibility, but people have posted about party guests ending up in the menu system (IIRC the changed settings took weeks to find/fix) or accidently triggering a game exit when P1 and P2 both hit their start buttons at the same time during a boss fight near the end of the game.   

If you don't want shifted functions with the KeyWiz, leave Shazaaam! disconnected.

If you don't want shifted functions with the IPac, program the board with the shifted settings left blank.


Scott

[jaharr01]

Thanks that helped i'll go with the IPAC2.Still not sure about which type joysticks to get everything else is good

[thewisteron]

Again, sorry for posting my LED/PSU comments in your thread, but hopefully it helps you too!

This is the power supply I have, so it looks like I should be ok, right?: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094

And the ElectricICE RGB-Drive buttons come with wiring, so I'm not worried about the current.

[PL1]

*Looking at linked PSU.

+5V@24A, +12V@40A

Yeah, you've got plenty of wiggle room. 

The wiring that needs to be "large enough" is between the molex and the provided RGB Drive wiring.

This chart shows that 26AWG is too small.

24 AWG is close to the edge for the 2.28A your setup can draw -- the "Wiring Confined" rating is only 2.1A.

22AWG (rated for 5-7A) or larger would be a much better choice to connect the molex to the LED wiring.   


Scott

[thewisteron]

Thanks PL1! You seem very knowledgeable and that really helps a rookie like me. If you have a moment, I'd love for you to take a look at my other thread so I can stop hijacking this thread. I have a question about whether or not the uhid can handle all my buttons and joysticks.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,137724.0.html

[jaharr01]

Ok ive seen 4 to 8 way joysticks ,servo controlled, analog, rotary, 49 way. How the heck does somebody figure out what to buy. I have a 4-8 way xarcade now on my old cab. It seems to work ok. Do I need a fancy joystick.I have a crapload of games with mame, model 2,nes,snes, n64,atari 2600, and sega genesis.I probably only play 10 to 20 games out of all of them.I may be overthinking a bit, but i dont want to buy stuff twice. I'm sure most of it is preference.Somebody humor me and tell me the difference in the joysticks.I promise i'll let it go after that.I feel like i'm beating a dead horse.

        Thanks for tolerating me. Jay

[PL1]

Just like different cars are good for different uses (picture a Ferrari trying to haul a sheet of MDF ) different joysticks are good for different games.

Start by figuring out which type of games you want to play.

90's fighting games need a very different stick from twitchy SHMUPS.

There are hundreds of threads about "which stick is best" and once you've narrowed it down to a general category/style of stick based on the games you plan on playing, a HUGE percentage of it comes down to personal preference.


Scott

[jaharr01]

I bought a 4-8 way joystick, buttons, and trackball from groovy game gear. case closed